Choosing a reference media with the Pro-4600

[dgberg]

I took me 4 sample prints to get a good one with my new profile. Put together a good 2033 patch profile for my Lexjet Sunset by Fredrix Matte Canvas for my new Canon Pro-4600.
I used the Media Configuration Tool to load many of the papers I plan to use except they are very generic named. I print mostly Lexjet canvas, Cason Etching Rag and Platine Fiber Rag and Hahnemuhle's FAB.
Plus a half dozen different Epson papers. So easy selecting a media on the Epson printers as there is always a matching paper.
Not so with the Canon. For Canvas the choices are Canvas, Matte Canvas and Canvas Artistic Matte. I got 3 horribly blocked shadow dark prints.
Lastly I saw a selection Auto (Use Printer Settings), I tried that and got a perfect print. So what is the trick, close your eyes and spin the bottle?
I cannot try 3 sample paper selections every time I change a paper in the printer. Along with the icc profile on my Epson printers it has the paper you should be selecting right in with the icc profile info.
Does Canon have the same thing and I am just missing it?

[Remko]

Dan,

As you mention that one of the paper brands you use is Lexjet, I suggest you give them a call and ask for Pete Wright. He is a former Canon guy and knows a lot about these printers.

You might also join his (and Dave Rice's) facebook group and ask your question there. That is how I know Pete. The facebook group is named : "Canon IMAGEprograf Printmakers - USA". Also Katrina Niolet might join in to help - she is from Red River Paper and has one of the new Canon printers and is very experienced with ICC profile making.

Cheers,
Remko
Netherlands

[dgberg]

Thanks for that great info.

[Panagiotis]

I took me 4 sample prints to get a good one with my new profile. Put together a good 2033 patch profile for my Lexjet Sunset by Fredrix Matte Canvas for my new Canon Pro-4600.
I used the Media Configuration Tool to load many of the papers I plan to use except they are very generic named. I print mostly Lexjet canvas, Cason Etching Rag and Platine Fiber Rag and Hahnemuhle's FAB.
Plus a half dozen different Epson papers. So easy selecting a media on the Epson printers as there is always a matching paper.
Not so with the Canon. For Canvas the choices are Canvas, Matte Canvas and Canvas Artistic Matte. I got 3 horribly blocked shadow dark prints.
Lastly I saw a selection Auto (Use Printer Settings), I tried that and got a perfect print. So what is the trick, close your eyes and spin the bottle?
I cannot try 3 sample paper selections every time I change a paper in the printer. Along with the icc profile on my Epson printers it has the paper you should be selecting right in with the icc profile info.
Does Canon have the same thing and I am just missing it?

From your description above it's not clear to me what exactly you are doing with the Canon printer.

I make profiles and print on the PRO-4000 like this:

For canvas mate:

1. I create a new custom media type based on "Canvas Artistic Matte" with Media Configuration Tool and I name it accordingly.
2. I perform a feed adjustment (you have to load the canvas on the printer first) and I save the changes in the custom media type created at the first step.
3. I update the printer and the printer driver with the new media type.
4. I load the canvas, select the custom media type (from step 1) both on printer and printer driver and I  print the targets with color management off in the printer driver (Print quality "High" )and off at the application  I use for printing the targets.
5. I scan the targets and make the profile.
6. To print I load the canvas, select the custom media type (from step 1) both on printer and printer driver and I print with color management off in the printer driver (Print quality "High" ) and on in the application I use for printing images using the profile I created at step 5.

Hope this helps,
P.

EDIT 1. A general observation is that for PRO-4000 Canson Infinity AMX1 settings and icc profiles are generally very good (albeit only M2).
Hahnemuhe settings and profiles are a disaster.

EDIT 2. I just took a look in the documentation of the PRO-4600 driver and it's the same as the PRO-4000 driver. If you need detailed instructions in any of the above steps I will be happy to provide.

[dgberg]

Your steps are very clear it is just that I have been 100% Epson for almost 20 years. With Epson you can use a custom profile or the oem profile and Epson has a suggested paper type for that media.
Select my canvas icc profile and select the paper recommended by Epson, usually watercolor radiant white and get a perfect print every time. Nothing else to do.
Have this thing a month and still doing most of my big prints on my two big Epson's. Doesn't look too difficult if I can ever find time.

[William Walker]

From your description above it's not clear to me what exactly you are doing with the Canon printer.

I make profiles and print on the PRO-4000 like this:

For canvas mate:

1. I create a new custom media type based on "Canvas Artistic Matte" with Media Configuration Tool and I name it accordingly.
2. I perform a feed adjustment (you have to load the canvas on the printer first) and I save the changes in the custom media type created at the first step.
3. I update the printer and the printer driver with the new media type.
4. I load the canvas, select the custom media type (from step 1) both on printer and printer driver and I  print the targets with color management off in the printer driver (Print quality "High" )and off at the application  I use for printing the targets.
5. I scan the targets and make the profile.
6. To print I load the canvas, select the custom media type (from step 1) both on printer and printer driver and I print with color management off in the printer driver (Print quality "High" ) and on in the application I use for printing images using the profile I created at step 5.

That's the way I have always done it.

[dgberg]

Finally got a custom paper loaded with the Media Configuration Tool and it prints a pretty nice print.
I have a lot to learn with this Canon and having run Epson printers the better part of 20 years maybe I am spoiled.
Never been through such a dog and pony show for a measly paper selection.
Number 1 thing I like about the Canon is the dual roll. If they had made a spectro proofer for it I would have it.
To simplify things I am going to load the 2 types of canvas I use the most and print everything else on my Epson's.
If only I could get more of my clients to take s80 solvent prints. 90+% gamut of the pigment prints and canvas does not require top coating.
That is a huge advantage in a production environment.

[Simon J.A. Simpson]

Dan, you can define your own papers using the Media Configuration Tool.

Media Configuration Tool

[dgberg]

That's what I did but it did not work until I downloaded the .am1x file for the Lexjet Instant Dry Satin Canvas I have been trying to set up.
Tried choosing the three listed canvases as a media choice and got just horrible color.
On almost all the third party icc paper and canvas profiles for Epson printers the suggested media choice is added right after the icc profile name.
I use mostly Lexjet canvas and right in the profile it says water color radiant white media.
Click on that choice and done, takes all of 2 seconds and get perfect prints every time.
Been trying to do the same thing with Canon for a full week. (Using the media configuration tool)

Below color samples from half a day testing yesterday.

[Panagiotis]

That's what I did but it did not work until I downloaded the .am1x file for the Lexjet Instant Dry Satin Canvas I have been trying to set up.
Tried choosing the three listed canvases as a media choice and got just horrible color.
On almost all the third party icc paper and canvas profiles for Epson printers the suggested media choice is added right after the icc profile name.
I use mostly Lexjet canvas and right in the profile it says water color radiant white media.
Click on that choice and done, takes all of 2 seconds and get perfect prints every time.
Been trying to do the same thing with Canon for a full week. (Using the media configuration tool)

Below color samples from half a day testing yesterday.

The reason for your troubles is that the three Canvas media types that come with the printer is for matte canvas and the black ink they use is MBK (matte black).
The Lexjet Instant Dry Satin Canvas is a satin canvas and it needs PBK black ink (photo black). That is why they create a custom media type (amx1 configuration file) using as base media the Pro Platinum media type (photo black) which comes with the printer.

[dgberg]

Tha artistic satin media I was told uses pk ink but that info may not have been correct.
Anyway after all these tests we have scraped the instant dry canvas.
Built a test stretcher frame and when stretching and folding the corners and edges of the ink cracked slightly.
I finally got a pretty decent print with the correct profile and media settings.