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Author Topic: Creating Custom Paper Profiles i1 Pro 3  (Read 1040 times)

SeanPerry

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Creating Custom Paper Profiles i1 Pro 3
« on: June 25, 2024, 11:24:13 pm »

Hello and I hope this finds everyone well. I've started making custom paper profiles with the i1 Pro 3. First attempt was for Arches 88 on an Epson p800, and used 3000 patches. It worked very well, and the profile is marginally better than the std profile from Canson.

If you've made profiles, how many patches do you recommend? Does anyone have any tips, or can point me to materials I can research for improving them further? Thank you so much, looking forward to learning more.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2024, 11:39:43 pm by SeanPerry »
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Panagiotis

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SeanPerry

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Re: Creating Custom Paper Profiles i1 Pro 3
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2024, 07:36:46 pm »

Thank you @Panagiotis! I had searched but had not seen that thread, this is great.

Appreciate any other settings or leads if anyone has them. Rendering the contrast and subtle transitions in deep shadow tones especially.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2024, 07:43:47 pm by SeanPerry »
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Kyle Jackson

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Re: Creating Custom Paper Profiles i1 Pro 3
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2024, 10:34:17 am »


Hi, yes there's quite a few threads around here about patch counts, in particular a lot from the HP Z3100 / Z3200 series that might still have some useful info for other printers like your Epson P800. 

My general takeaways from it all have been:
- Making our own profiles are very likely to give better results (sometimes grossly better) than any canned profile from a printer / media maker.
- Increasing patch counts generally improves results (going from say small double- or triple-digit counts to lower 4-digit counts).
- Improvement generally has diminishing returns as the patch counts get larger (higher 4-digit counts), and the tradeoff in time and cost becomes very real, so for most users it's unlikely to offer much benefit.
- Various optimization attempts such as "interstitially-nested grids", increased neutral axis density, etc, have had varying results reported -- sometimes a gain, sometimes not, and generally seems very case-specific and requiring fairly intense scrutiny to evaluate, like research-level effort. So might be similar to the diminishing returns above re effort vs benefit.

The ultimate measure is are you happy with your prints? The rest can become a never-ending science project...

So I say if your setup has some higher-count targets to try and you don't mind the effort/cost, go for it. I don't think there is much to lose with trying some lower 4-digit patch counts, tho many setups still give excellent results with much less.

I've been slowly chipping away at similar topic this year (with my Z3100 and Z3200) and so far the biggest improvement (on matte media) has been from increasing the ink density, I think moreso than profiling with larger targets.
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SeanPerry

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Re: Creating Custom Paper Profiles i1 Pro 3
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2024, 01:24:10 pm »

Thank you Kyle! That's great, and I print quite a bit on matte media too. I'm using the Velvet Fine Art setting for ink load, how did you increase that on yours?
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Kyle Jackson

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Re: Creating Custom Paper Profiles i1 Pro 3
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2024, 01:38:38 pm »

So with the HPs we select a "paper preset" whenever we add a new paper type. Paper presets are a set of predefined settings (baked into the firmware) that include things like hi/lo paper height, cutter on/off, drying time, ink load etc. There are ref tables in HP docs that list the ink density used for each preset, so we can experiment with ink load by trying different paper presets.

On top of that, we can adjust a paper to increase/decrease the ink load from the value in the preset (by +/- 20% I think). So that gives us a little more fine tuning.

Hopefully the Epsons have some similar options for ink density (and hopefully more accessible/controllable than HP's approach).

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SeanPerry

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Re: Creating Custom Paper Profiles i1 Pro 3
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2024, 07:32:20 pm »

Thank you Kyle! There are similar controls for Epson, I'm going to experiment with a little more ink density as you described.
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Kyle Jackson

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Re: Creating Custom Paper Profiles i1 Pro 3
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2024, 02:17:09 pm »


It'll be interesting to see if it offers improvement. In my case I think it was a bad/defective paper preset from hp that used too low of an ink density, so increasing it myself offered a big improvement. In other cases it's probably not so dramatic.

I use GamutVision to check the gamut volume and black level (Dmax) of the icc profiles to see if there's an improvement. If it doesn't move much with higher ink density, if or gamut volume actually shrinks (ink coalescence / muddying), then I'm just burning ink without making it "better". In that weird case I had tho the gamut volume grew by like 25%, it was nuts, and black level improved too, so def worth it.
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