Different papers, framed behind glass

[gchappel]

With a fair amount of work, and help, I finally have a print workflow that is color correct.   For the last 2 years I can push a button, and a print rolls off my ipf8400 that looks just like my monitor.  It is now easy.
I have been framing 20x30" or larger prints, on primarily epson legacy platine, without glass.  2-3" black nelson frame, 2-3" white matt, fairly classic look.  I love how they look.
Several clients now want glass, which is new to me.  My framer called to let me know that several people that purchased my prints at a recent show have come to him to have glass added.  OK, I surrender, I can give them what they want.
My question is- at least in my hands when a print is behind glass I honestly cannot tell the difference between many papers.  To be honest, the platine prints that look and feel so rich in the hands look exactly the same as my epson luster test prints once behind glass.  I have tried window glass, plexi, museum glass and they all take away the wonderful appearance of the surface of the paper.   
I have asked several friends, who have art, and they can not tell the difference either.
I guess I should just print on epson luster paper, at 1/4 the cost at let it go.  But it doesn't feel right.
Does anyone else have similar experiences, or is it just me.
I guess I am a little disappointed that the protection they want takes away, at least for me, from the experience.
Gary

[henrikolsen]

Regular glass, or glass not very transparent, reflective or with color bias, does take away a lot of the paper finish, agreed. But good quality AR glass with high transmission and little color bias does come a long way to get the paper differences back in view.

AR reflection colors vary, but all AR glass still throw some odd color back from the coating on certain reflections, so beware of hanging/placement. As an experienced example, a black and white print on a wall opposite a close by window and white floor can get some really unattractive reflective color shifts from AR glass (could be green/magenta/purple) on big parts of the print, throwing off the b&w look completely. But with thoughtful hanging, in most cases I like something like GroGlass AR70. Color and texture of paper (and mat!) comes through well. Color and texture of matting can be killed completely by regular glass, where you really notice how low transmission quality is.

Quality glass or not, I still think it's at least worth getting the intended white point of the paper as preferred. A low quality paper with low and bluish whitepoint will make the end result look even worse behind regular glass - where a neutral whitepoint paper with high whitepoint (like Canson Platine) will at least look better, and even better yet behind AR70 or similar.


Excellent article here on details:

http://cacaoeditions.com/anti-reflection-picture-framing-glass/

[mearussi]

Glass is the great leveler making all these different papers look almost the same, it's just the nature of the "beast." I hate glass and as such have switched as much as possible to canvas because of it (no one asks to have canvas put behind glass).

The only real purpose to continue to use high quality paper vs cheap luster is because of archivability.  Cheap RC luster has OBAs and TiO2 that yellows and stains the paper over time whereas good quality 100% cotton paper like Canson Platine does not (I'm not familiar with Epson's version).

But I can understand your customer's desire for glass as it adds a good layer of protection to the print. BTW, how are you protecting your prints now since you're not using glass?

[gchappel]

I do give my prints a light coat of Hahnemuhle protective spray, but I doubt that actually does much. 
At least in home environments I have never had a print damaged in the last 4-5yrs. 
For me printing a new one would be no big deal, but I need to understand that someone that purchases a print may not have that immediately available.
I need to give canvas another try, but I do not have a spray booth and my attempts at rolling on varnishes were not pretty.
Thanks
Gary

[John Nollendorfs]

I do give my prints a light coat of Hahnemuhle protective spray, but I doubt that actually does much. 
At least in home environments I have never had a print damaged in the last 4-5yrs. 
For me printing a new one would be no big deal, but I need to understand that someone that purchases a print may not have that immediately available.
I need to give canvas another try, but I do not have a spray booth and my attempts at rolling on varnishes were not pretty.
Thanks
Gary

Gary:
That Hahnemuhl spray helps paper prints quite a bit! I helps close the microporous ink jet receiver layer against atmospheric contaminants, which framing under glass also does.

I agree, putting prints under glass deminishes the beauty of those expensive papers. My exhibitioin prints in my local gallery, I do not place underglass, because of the disturbing reflections. For patrons wishing to purchase my prints, I give them the choice of size, and media, trying to sell them on gallery wrapped canvas prints, if they are looking at larger sizes especially.

[mearussi]

I do give my prints a light coat of Hahnemuhle protective spray, but I doubt that actually does much. 
At least in home environments I have never had a print damaged in the last 4-5yrs. 
For me printing a new one would be no big deal, but I need to understand that someone that purchases a print may not have that immediately available.
I need to give canvas another try, but I do not have a spray booth and my attempts at rolling on varnishes were not pretty.
Thanks
Gary

Rolling on a coating can be tricky. But here are a few tips that can make it work.

1. print on matte canvas as the water based coating will lift the ink from a glossy/satin surface.

2. use several light coats (let the first coat dry before applying the second) instead of one heavy one because too much applied at once will cause the canvas to shrink as well as leave roller marks behind.

3. Don't use Breathing Color's Timeless as it drys too fast (it's specifically designed for spraying) and readily leaves roller marks behind. Instead use Premier Art's Eco Print Shield. It takes about 15 minutes to dry giving you plenty of time to smooth it out. Also use two rollers, the first to apply the coating and the second to soak up any excess on the canvas. This way you are applying a very light thin coat--do this two or three times.

4. Use glossy for the undercoats and the final coat for whatever you want the surface to be (matte, luster, glossy).

There are many different surfaces to choose from. I prefer a very smooth one and after much experimentation have found that the Canson Museum ProCanvas to have the finest texture (almost as smooth as a luster paper surface once coated). It's a 100% cotton canvas with a very tight weave. But Breathing Color's Lyve is almost as smooth and a bit more rugged as it is a 70/30 poly cotton blend.

[gchappel]

Mearussi, thanks for the tips.  I may give that a try.
Much of my work is black and white, with large black areas.   
This just doesn't carry well on canvas, but I may need to explore more.
I still like the classic frame, matt look. 
No one else seems to even notice, so my next set of frames will get plain old glass, and I will see what they say
Thanks
Gary