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Author Topic: Hasselblad h4?  (Read 18198 times)

Dustbak

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Hasselblad h4?
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2010, 02:14:36 am »

Quote from: gdwhalen
I'm not sure what Phocus you are using but I have had absolutely no problems with Phocus.  I used LR and C1 and their iterations for years and Phocus does everything for me that I need and does it very well.

Previous versions of Phocus were not very good for multishot users. Frankly it was practically unusable when there was real pressure an a shoot with multishot work in it. This is no longer the case with 2.0 which works very well for multishot users and will become even better with next versions. There was a huge difference when you used Phocus 1.x versions with single vs multishot.

Probably because of the fairly small user base of multishot users understandable but annoying nevertheless. I have only recently dropped Flexcolor completely (with 2.0betas).
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eronald

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« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2010, 04:46:41 am »

I saw an old Eiffel tower image -from when it was built - clearly taken with a large format camera (1900), and with a much better look than anything I could find now. There is a use for big formats, I have no doubt that in some years people will figure out how to make a thin -even flexible - sensor using roll-to-roll technology, and the big cameras will come back.

Edmund
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Carsten W

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« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2010, 06:28:01 am »

Quote from: Nemo
There is no dependence or relation between the SNR of the whole sensor and the number of pixels on full frame CCDs.

If you ignore the space taken up between pixels by circuitry, yes.
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Carsten W

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« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2010, 06:29:44 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Hum... considering the situation at this very point of time, I would argue that a 30MP would in fact be more costly for back manufacturers. Why?

Tell that to the people who price out the P30+ and P65+.

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Well... a given camera with a given tolerance will project the same quality of information on the sensor, whatever its resolution. The P65+ image will appear less sharp when looking at the image at 100% on screen, that's it. Both 30MP and 60MP images will print exactly the same.

Right, the P65+ requires higher tolerance because otherwise it might not get more effective resolution than a P30+.
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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2010, 07:54:27 am »

Quote from: carstenw
Tell that to the people who price out the P30+ and P65+.

The sensor of the P30+ is smaller, that must account for a few thousand US$ of the cost difference, the remaining gap is about development cost... and how much customers are willing to pay for it.

Cheers,
Bernard

Carsten W

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« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2010, 08:22:02 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
and how much customers are willing to pay for it.

There is certainly some overhead in every sensor development, but I believe that you have nailed it here. People are willing to pay more for a P65+ and so the price goes up. By careful design it ought to be possible to design a nice large sensor without too many megapixels, and keep the price low enough that the sales numbers increase, and achieve success in that manner. I don't expect an MFDB for the price of a 5D2, but there is a lot of room for improvement in the current pricing. Let see how the new Leaf backs do at their lower price level.
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BJL

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« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2010, 10:45:09 am »

Quote from: carstenw
... it ought to be possible to design a nice large sensor without too many megapixels, and keep the price low enough that the sales numbers increase ...
I will say it again: that cost of making large sensors is determined almost entirely by their size, not by the pixel count (cell size). Combine that with the fact that having fewer, larger pixels has no demonstrable advantage in IQ when compared fairly (at equal print size or such with downsampling if appropriate, and with the same generation of sensor technology), and there is not much reason to design new sensors of lower resolution than exiting ones, except to help with frame rates and processing speed.

If anything, designing and having two sensors of the same size but different cell size only increases costs (more R&D work and lower economies of scale in fabrication and stock control), so this only makes sense during the transition to a new higher resolution cell design.

Since Kodak has now launched a 44x33mm 40MP sensor with its new 6 micron cell design alongside its 49x37mm 50MP model, I expect the older 6.8 micron Kodak sensors to be discontinued sooner or later, as the 9 micron ones already have been.

P. S. MF sensor photosites are huge by the standards of modern IC fab. technology, so the issue of space wasted between cells is minor. Worry about that with sub 2 micron cells of compact digicams maybe. DSLR sensors do no even need to go close to using the smallest feature size for fab. due to their generous cell size.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 10:48:50 am by BJL »
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Nemo

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Hasselblad h4?
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2010, 05:22:29 am »

Quote from: carstenw
If you ignore the space taken up between pixels by circuitry, yes.

Theere is no much circuitry on the surface of FFT CCDs carsten... CMOS is a different thing, of course, but retroilluminated CMOSes will change that soon.
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