Phase P-45; widest lens w/o lens cast problem?

[Lust4Life]

I shoot the Hasselblad 503CW and 50, 100, 150 CFI lenses.
Digital back is the Phase One P-45, with the 45+ on order.
Would like to have a wider lens to add to the collection.

Question:
With like gear, what is the widest lens you have sucessfully used without lens cast being a problem?

I'm particularily thinking of the 40 CFI or even the 903SWC.  Other ideas appreciated.

Thanks,
Jack

[Gary Yeowell]

Jack,

I would not hesitate to recommend the 40CFE IF version, sharp from wide open onwards, with great contrast. This lens actually resolves more in the central portion than the 38 biogon according to Zeiss, and i am inclined to agree having owned both at the same time, and now only the 40, and it's in another league to the previous 40CFE. Another reason is that the 38mm will have some color shift due to the non retrofocus design, so will require correction, though with somtimes less than predictable results.

The only downside for the latest 40 is that there is more distortion than both the 38mm and the previous 40 CFE, as Zeiss decided that considering the new IF 40mm was going to be used for digital, the tradeoff of sharpness to the corners and fantastic contrast at all apertures, outweighed the distortion factor as this is more easily corrected in P/S, hence the design limitations chosen. Another reason to choose the 40 over the 38 is the ease of SLR viewing compared to distance scale of the SWC, and additional use of a focussing screen adapter which is a bit of a pain, but usable.

Gary.

[pss]

neither the 40 or the 38 should give you any problems at all.....

[vgogolak]

In normal landscape shots I see no issue with either the hassey 40mm IF or the Contax 35mm

products against bedsheets may be a different matter

[Ron Steinberg]

I shot with a P45Plus on an SWC last week. There is a minor amount of lens cast, easily fixed with the lens cast calibration in C1. The great thing about shooting on the SWC is that you only have to do the LCC once, and then simply pick it for every shot you do with the 903.

Ron

[Henry Goh]

I shot with a P45Plus on an SWC last week. There is a minor amount of lens cast, easily fixed with the lens cast calibration in C1. The great thing about shooting on the SWC is that you only have to do the LCC once, and then simply pick it for every shot you do with the 903.

Ron
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113769\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ron,

If you don't mind...I've a SWC903 and thus far no MFDB.  I've been trying to figure out if the combo is of any use.  You seem to be the first one posting about this.  Could you kindly explain a little about LCC and SWC.  I'm just a noob with MFDB so please bear with me here.  Thanks so much.

Henry

[Ron Steinberg]

Ron,

If you don't mind...I've a SWC903 and thus far no MFDB.  I've been trying to figure out if the combo is of any use.  You seem to be the first one posting about this.  Could you kindly explain a little about LCC and SWC.  I'm just a noob with MFDB so please bear with me here.  Thanks so much.

Henry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113770\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Henry,

The combo works brilliantly! LCC is a fact of life with wide angle non-retrofocus lenses (and some others at times). Essentially what happens is that the rays of light hit the CCD at an angle not parallel to the lens axis and cause a shift in colour at the edges of the frame, magenta on one side and green on the other. With a Phase One digital back, to get rid of this lens cast you place a white piece of plexiglass over the lens, take an exposure, and then in Capture One software neutralize the image (one click of the mouse). You then apply this LCC to every image shot with that camera and the software compensates for the lens cast. It's increadibly easy to do and works very very well.

I was pleasantly surprised at how well the combination worked, and with the new Plus back's better screen, I was easily able to zoom in to confirm my focus, even with the super wide lens. I think that the Cambo WideDS with the Schneider 35XL lens is still better, but if you already have this camera I wouldn't hesitate to use it with a Phase back. I'm attaching a shot that I did, straight out of the camera except for applying LCC to it. Don't judge quality too much, as this is sized down for web and with JPEG compression, but it will give you an idea of what this combo can do.

Cheers,
Ron

[attachment=2348:attachment]

[ternst]

Ron:

I take it from your comment that there are still issues with the LCC on the new plus backs? That is a great disappointment. I don't ever intend to use C1 (can't stand the interface) and was hoping something would be done about this with the new backs. I'm shooting a P-45 on Mamiya and have the lens cast on a couple of the lenses, including the 120mm macro so it is not always limited to wide angle. Oh well...

[Henry Goh]

Thank you very much Ron.  I think I got it now.

The sample file looks pretty good to me.  So with the plus back you can focus on the LCD?

Henry

[mtomalty]

Hi Henry

Just wanted to add a little to rons post.

I don't own either of the items you inquire about but have used,on numerous occasions,
SWC903 in conjunction with both a P25 and P45.
Colorcast is quite apparent with both backs but as Rons example illustrates it is completely
correctable in post.
Basically you take the  plexiglass image that you captured and open the file in C1.
In the LCC tab you correct this image to arrive at a neutral frame. You then rename this
custom corrected 'profile' (i.e., SWC903_vertical_sunny) and store it within C1.
Anytime after where you have an image captured under similar conditions with the same
lens you just apply this 'profile' from the dropdown menu and colorcast is corrected.

Very simple and very efficient once you familiarize yourself with it once or twice.
The only area of contention that I have with applying the LCC correction after the fact in C1
is if you are someone who likes to explore different RAW conversion options such
as Lightroom,Adobe Camera Raw,or Raw Developer.
If this is the case then the cast is not going to be easily removeable.

In an ideal world,I would prefer to have this correction applied from within the back so that
if i chose to use a different Raw converter other than C1,for whatever reason, then the 'LCC correction' would be available when using third party converters.

I believe (and I'll let others trash me if my assumption is incorrect) that Leaf backs function
in this way with their custom gain file but being far less familiar with Leaf products I may be
off base.

FWIW,the P45 and LCC also works extremely well with the Hasselblad ArcBody and 45mm

Mark

[Henry Goh]

Hi Henry

Just wanted to add a little to rons post.

I don't own either of the items you inquire about but have used,on numerous occasions,
SWC903 in conjunction with both a P25 and P45.
Colorcast is quite apparent with both backs but as Rons example illustrates it is completely
correctable in post.
Basically you take the  plexiglass image that you captured and open the file in C1.
In the LCC tab you correct this image to arrive at a neutral frame. You then rename this
custom corrected 'profile' (i.e., SWC903_vertical_sunny) and store it within C1.
Anytime after where you have an image captured under similar conditions with the same
lens you just apply this 'profile' from the dropdown menu and colorcast is corrected.

Very simple and very efficient once you familiarize yourself with it once or twice.
The only area of contention that I have with applying the LCC correction after the fact in C1
is if you are someone who likes to explore different RAW conversion options such
as Lightroom,Adobe Camera Raw,or Raw Developer.
If this is the case then the cast is not going to be easily removeable.

In an ideal world,I would prefer to have this correction applied from within the back so that
if i chose to use a different Raw converter other than C1,for whatever reason, then the 'LCC correction' would be available when using third party converters.

I believe (and I'll let others trash me if my assumption is incorrect) that Leaf backs function
in this way with their custom gain file but being far less familiar with Leaf products I may be
off base.

FWIW,the P45 and LCC also works extremely well with the Hasselblad ArcBody and 45mm

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113805\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you very much Mark.

Henry

[mtomalty]

I'm shooting a P-45 on Mamiya and have the lens cast on a couple of the lenses, including the 120mm macro so it is not always limited to wide angle. Oh well...

Tim

Have you found a workaround for dealing with Lens Cast or do you move back into
C1 to correct those files that need LCC?

Mark

[Ron Steinberg]

Ron:

I take it from your comment that there are still issues with the LCC on the new plus backs? That is a great disappointment. I don't ever intend to use C1 (can't stand the interface) and was hoping something would be done about this with the new backs. I'm shooting a P-45 on Mamiya and have the lens cast on a couple of the lenses, including the 120mm macro so it is not always limited to wide angle. Oh well...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113803\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It was very minor on the P45Plus with the SWC. At first I didn't even see it, but on close inspection it was there. I've seen it worse on older backs. In either case, LCC deals with it very effectively.

Indeed LCC is not limited to wide angle lenses, and I alluded to that in my original post.

It's a shame that you don't like the C1 interface, from a production perspective I find the workflow absolutely brilliant and couldn't imagine working with something like Camera Raw. And I do enjoy shooting tethered directly into the software when I can. Hopefully C1 version 4 will be more to your liking.

Cheers,
Ron

[ternst]

Mark:

I have not found a good way around this issue in Camera Raw, but I haven't really spent much time processing since I got my back. I had heard that the plus back would solve the issue once and for all but now it sounds like that may not be the case.

Ron:

I'm the kind of guy who likes for software to just work without me having to do too much before I can use it (same deal with computers - I can run a Mac in my sleep but couldn't figure out how to copy a file on a windows machine if you put a gun to my head). I don't want to have to go to school in order to use a piece of software. I've been into C1 about a dozen times and have been unable to process even a single file successfully to my satisfaction. It is all so easy with Bridge/Camera Raw/PS10. Perhaps version 4 of C1 will be different but for now I just can't stand to use it and so don't (it is advertised as shipping with the plus backs, but I assume that is no longer the case?). I guess when it comes time to do some serious processing if I am unable to get the Phase One files to work with my normal software I might simply sell the package and go elsewhere instead of being forced into software that makes no sense to me. I'm sure this same thing is the other way around for a lot of you - C1 (or windows machines) being very easy to learn, but for me I'd rather spend my time out in the woods making photos instead of trying to learn how to process them...

[mtomalty]

I'd rather spend my time out in the woods making photos instead of trying to learn how to process them...

.....ahhh!  But once you know, you wouldn't have to learn  :>))

Mark

[ternst]

I've spent years getting good at PS and just don't want to have to start from scratch once again simply because an expensive bit of hardware is flawed. Go figure. I knew this going in, but I had hoped the plus backs would solve the problem. No regrets, I just don't want to be forced to use c1

[Ron Steinberg]

Thank you very much Ron.  I think I got it now.

The sample file looks pretty good to me.  So with the plus back you can focus on the LCD?

Henry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113804\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Henry,

Yes, with the improved screen on the Plus series of backs I was able to accurately check my focus when shooting with the SWC and tweak it. Later viewing on my computer confirmed what I had seen on the back. As you know the SWC is not a reflex camera and so you must guess at the focus distance. Very handy to be able to confirm your focus while out in the field  

Ron

[Eric Zepeda]

I've spent years getting good at PS and just don't want to have to start from scratch once again simply because an expensive bit of hardware is flawed. Go figure. I knew this going in, but I had hoped the plus backs would solve the problem. No regrets, I just don't want to be forced to use c1
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113877\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I believe P45 are unofficially supported in Lightroom. I know that P25 files are. If C1 is not to your liking, perhaps Lightroom might be a better fit. I do applaud Phase (and Leaf for that matter) for giving the user another option besides C1. I would like to see support for Aperture in the future as well.

Best,

Eric Zepeda

[Lust4Life]

I believe P45 are unofficially supported in Lightroom. I know that P25 files are. If C1 is not to your liking, perhaps Lightroom might be a better fit. I do applaud Phase (and Leaf for that matter) for giving the user another option besides C1. I would like to see support for Aperture in the future as well.

Best,

Eric Zepeda
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113992\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm using the final release of Lightroom and it's reading my Phase P-45 files perfectly.  Frankly, for my work it is dramatically better at producing a great file when compared to Capture One's limited tool set.

Jack