H3D22 or P25+

[cesarrojo]

Right, now i can see it!
By the way I have a test for the thursday night.... I got a really good offer on the H3D39 + 80mm, same price here in spain than the p25 with H2 + 80mm. I think I will go that way... H3D31 is quite good price but as stated on the luminous landscape test looks like the microlenses made the back loosing some quality...

cesarrojo,

MF cameras were never designed to handle action shots. Period.

I am not saying it is impossible to use these cameras, but it won't be as straight forward as pulling 8 frames/ sec with a snappy multi-point auto focus 35mm...

Here is an example, taken with a 11MP Leaf Valeo back, on a 553ELX with 500/f8 lens and a WLF, wide open @ 100iso...that might be the other extreme...today's portable backs are much more capable with faster capture rates, built in screens and higher iso...

[attachment=2275:attachment]
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[mtomalty]

Cesar

Just for curiosity,where do you anticipate the quality gains of a MFDB to give you an advantage
over the type of quality available to you from either a high end Nikon or Canon DSLR?

As a Canon 1DsMkll owner and frequent MFDB user it's abundantly clear that the sheer
quality of almost all MFDBs trumps my Canon files.

It's also clear that the 'right' equipment should be used for the right task and it's here,
knowing that your primary shooting subject is motorsports,that I don't see the practical
advantage that the backs could provide for this subject.

I have to assume that the majority of your competition will be nailing tack sharp images
with 300-600mm lenses (even if they are exposing one frame at the peak moment and not
relying on a 10 FPS motor to provide some 'security') and I think you will be handicapped
more often than not when considering the areas of strength of a MFDB

I'd think very carefully on this decision and if your local DB reps are aware of your area
of expertise and are still pushing a DB over a DSLR then I believe you are getting poor advice

Good luck,
Mark

[cesarrojo]

Sorry, maybe you missundestod me, I am not doing any competitions, so when I shoot in a circuit i get into the grass or even in a safe place in the asphalt. I shoot almost 90% of my shoots with a 28-70mm. And sometimes i go a bit further with a 105mm macro lens or a 200mm (but i find out that going longer makes more and more difficult shooting in slow shutter speeds, I magane to get a bike sharp at 1/60 or so and that makes an incredible sense of movement than with a telephoto is almost impossible to get...), but as i told i am not stacked behind a fence.

Cesar

Just for curiosity,where do you anticipate the quality gains of a MFDB to give you an advantage
over the type of quality available to you from either a high end Nikon or Canon DSLR?

As a Canon 1DsMkll owner and frequent MFDB user it's abundantly clear that the sheer
quality of almost all MFDBs trumps my Canon files.

It's also clear that the 'right' equipment should be used for the right task and it's here,
knowing that your primary shooting subject is motorsports,that I don't see the practical
advantage that the backs could provide for this subject.

I have to assume that the majority of your competition will be nailing tack sharp images
with 300-600mm lenses (even if they are exposing one frame at the peak moment and not
relying on a 10 FPS motor to provide some 'security') and I think you will be handicapped
more often than not when considering the areas of strength of a MFDB

I'd think very carefully on this decision and if your local DB reps are aware of your area
of expertise and are still pushing a DB over a DSLR then I believe you are getting poor advice

Good luck,
Mark
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[nicholask]

Hasselblad is at the moment the most sophisticated system there is. Rollei is at the moment only talking in riddles about the HY6 ( and already people are dreaming of it and even pretending they will buy the camera( one that until now even doesn't exist in real life)).
mamiya isn't a real competition because of the limitations of their lens quality and an uncertain future.
Plus, you can always upgrade your back to a CF product wich fits all camera on the market.
But why would you go for an other cameraplatform since H3 is so nice and more beautifull lenses are coming soon....?
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Where you say "mamiya isn't a real competition because of the limitations of their lens quality", what do you mean exactly?  What are you basing this on?  Can you back this up with any hard facts?  Dissing gear for the sake of it isn't very imaginative, is it?  Mamiya has been making top lenses for professionals for a very long time...

[paul_jones]

Where you say "mamiya isn't a real competition because of the limitations of their lens quality", what do you mean exactly?  What are you basing this on?  Can you back this up with any hard facts?  Dissing gear for the sake of it isn't very imaginative, is it?  Mamiya has been making top lenses for professionals for a very long time...
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i tested the sharpness of both the 35mm and 80mm of the mamiya and hc lenses side by side (inc contax), the mamiya was sharper by a noise. i also checked the results with a fussy car photographer techo friend of mine, and he concluded the same.
he had done a similar test a few years back with the contax and mamiya, and found the mamiya sharper.
i bought the h1 because of the leaf shutter, but i still find the sharpness suspect in some situations- ie the zoom when its in the 60mm to 90mm range is soft. the only lens thats blown me away has been the 100 2.2.

paul

[BernardLanguillier]

i tested the sharpness of both the 35mm and 80mm of the mamiya and hc lenses side by side (inc contax), the mamiya was sharper by a noise. i also checked the results with a fussy car photographer techo friend of mine, and he concluded the same.
he had done a similar test a few years back with the contax and mamiya, and found the mamiya sharper.
i bought the h1 because of the leaf shutter, but i still find the sharpness suspect in some situations- ie the zoom when its in the 60mm to 90mm range is soft. the only lens thats blown me away has been the 100 2.2.

paul
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The Mamiya 35 mm isn't perfect, but it is a very decent lens indeed.

I was never impressed by the HC 35 mm. That lens is really large, heavy and pricey but it didn't appear to perform significantly better than the Mamiya, although the latter is twice cheaper, smaller and lighter.

Regards,
Bernard

[mcfoto]

Where you say "mamiya isn't a real competition because of the limitations of their lens quality", what do you mean exactly?  What are you basing this on?  Can you back this up with any hard facts?  Dissing gear for the sake of it isn't very imaginative, is it?  Mamiya has been making top lenses for professionals for a very long time...
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Hi
I agree & on a job last year I ended up shooting with both the Mamiya 645 AFD/150 & H2/150 on an Aptus 22. Same lighting, f stop... & for me I thought the Mamiya had better tonality. It was very close and really you are comparing two Japanese lens makers Mamiya & Fugi (Hasselblad). It is your personal choice which system you like the best & they both have excellent lenses.
Denis
www.montalbetticampbell.com

[cesarrojo]

Finally this morning I did an test for the H3d22, 39 and also put my d2x.

The main conclusion is that for color hassy wins hands down and also resolution, but enlarging the 22mpx to 39mpx its hard to tell on some parts of the picture where there is not massive detail, but anyway, difference is just not super huge.

But then i tried enlarging the 22mpx to the maximum until i can see picture pixelated. The 22 i could get up to 74Mpx and with the 39 i got up to 145Mpx. Also looking 400% zoom without interpolation you can see quite much difference.

Where I got really disaponted is with 32secs exp, its just horrible with so much hot pixels on the image, a lot of noise reduction on the image also.. This made me a bit confused because for sure a 10secs is a bit noisy and for shooting with a RIG this could be a problem as you need long exp always... Anyone has found this issues?

Here you can see H3D22, 39 and D2X all enlarged to 39MPx. To be fair I have to say that tripod was a bit closer on the H3D22. Let me know what you think.

[godtfred]

Finally this morning I did an test for the H3d22, 39 and also put my d2x.

The main conclusion is that for color hassy wins hands down and also resolution, but enlarging the 22mpx to 39mpx its hard to tell on some parts of the picture where there is not massive detail, but anyway, difference is just not super huge.

But then i tried enlarging the 22mpx to the maximum until i can see picture pixelated. The 22 i could get up to 74Mpx and with the 39 i got up to 145Mpx. Also looking 400% zoom without interpolation you can see quite much difference.

Where I got really disaponted is with 32secs exp, its just horrible with so much hot pixels on the image, a lot of noise reduction on the image also.. This made me a bit confused because for sure a 10secs is a bit noisy and for shooting with a RIG this could be a problem as you need long exp always... Anyone has found this issues?

Here you can see H3D22, 39 and D2X all enlarged to 39MPx. To be fair I have to say that tripod was a bit closer on the H3D22. Let me know what you think.
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Try to up the bit depth to 16 on the H3D images when exporting from flexcolor.

[cesarrojo]

Thanks! but as main comparison is between the 22 and 39 (the d2x has not much to do) i think is fair this way also.

Try to up the bit depth to 16 on the H3D images when exporting from flexcolor.
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[BernardLanguillier]

If your work is about shooting moving subjects, I'd test again in those conditions.

My guess is that a D2x/1Ds2 in AF mode properlly used will deliver an image with more absolute detail than any MFDB used in AF/MF mode.

You migtht be able to do better from time to time with the MFDB from time to time, but think average image quality per hour of shooting.

Just my 2 cent.

Cheers,
Bernard

[heinrichvoelkel]

Cesar, one question? Who is your dealer of choice in Barcelona? Arpi or Casanova?

Regrds
Heinrich

[cesarrojo]

those are shops, I'm talking directly to the official dealer of phaseone (danishphoto) and hassel (tetenal)

I will go for a phaseone finally almosts for sure, have to do a final test, but the phase one offers long exp that is a must for some type of shooting like RIG.... (also for fun i like doing star trails)

Cesar, one question? Who is your dealer of choice in Barcelona? Arpi or Casanova?

Regrds
Heinrich
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[heinrichvoelkel]

those are shops, I'm talking directly to the official dealer of phaseone (danishphoto) and hassel (tetenal)

I will go for a phaseone finally almosts for sure, have to do a final test, but the phase one offers long exp that is a must for some type of shooting like RIG.... (also for fun i like doing star trails)
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Okay! But why, did you have a look at the offers from them as well? Or are they shitty ( I mean the shops) from ground on?