Schneider 80mm f/2.8 Mk II Lens coming for XF

[Doug Peterson]

Excuse the brevity as it is Thanksgiving here in the USA...

Schneider 80mm f/2.8 Mk II for Phase One

I have NOT tested this lens hands on yet, but would hope it to be sharper (especially on the 100mp and 150mp) and have less chromatic aberration when used wide open. The 80mm got an A from us in our Lenses for 150mp ratings and hopefully and update to a Mk II can put it into the A++ category, especially since it's an extremely commonly used focal length (normal for full-frame 645) and is one of the small/compact lenses. Our team will be doing comparisons as soon as we receive one, and will, of course, share the raws for free with whomever is interested.

I also expect that it will make available lower pricing on refurbished Schneider 80mm Mk I lenses lenses.

No pricing yet (on either the new Mk I refurb price or the new Mk II), but will share when available. DT will also likely be doing a trade-in program for a limited quantity of Mk I to Mk II lens upgrades, so contact your sales person if you want to join the queue.

[narikin]

Good to hear Phase have woken up on this.

I've been saying it for years, here and elsewhere, the old Phase/Mamiya D 80mm lens was far sharper than the LS Schneider one. 
I sold my 80mm LS on eBay, and have continued to use the old 80mm D and gotten great results on IQ4-150.

If folks don't need LS, look for one of those instead, save yourself thousands $.

[[email protected]]

Good to hear Phase have woken up on this.

I've been saying it for years, here and elsewhere, the old Phase/Mamiya D 80mm lens was far sharper than the LS Schneider one. 
I sold my 80mm LS on eBay, and have continued to use the old 80mm D and gotten great results on IQ4-150.

If folks don't need LS, look for one of those instead, save yourself thousands $.

I'm ok with the sharpness of 80 BR LS but I don't like the CA.
Is there a difference in CA between the old Phase/Mamiya D 80 and the 80 BR LS Mk1?
Thanks,
Ben

[Steve Hendrix]

Good to hear Phase have woken up on this.

I've been saying it for years, here and elsewhere, the old Phase/Mamiya D 80mm lens was far sharper than the LS Schneider one. 
I sold my 80mm LS on eBay, and have continued to use the old 80mm D and gotten great results on IQ4-150.

If folks don't need LS, look for one of those instead, save yourself thousands $.

I can't say that has been my experience, and I have tested those lenses against each other on numerous occasions, and used them both many times over the years. In my testing, I found the difference in sharpness either extremely slight (and in the cases I've found this, it was in favor of the Schneider), or non existent. A bigger difference was found between these and the previous legacy Mamiya 80mm/2.8 AF Lens.

You may have just had bad luck with copies - and I may have had good luck with copies. In fact, my results have been so close that I have presumed these lenses were identical in optical formulation and lens coating.

Either way, I would second that if you don't need the leaf shutter, picking up a good 80mm D Lens is a good way to go - with no real loss of sharpness in comparison to the Schneider version. And it's a bit smaller as a result of not having the leaf shutter. With that said, if one is buying certified pre-owned, we often have 80mm D lenses for less than $200, while we also commonly have the Schneider version for less than $400, not the biggest difference in the world. Crazy pricing for these quality lenses. For new purchase, yes a bigger difference in price.

BTW - expect to see Schneider Blue Ring version I units available soon in certified pre-owned inventories. There's no optical difference between these and the non Blue Ring versions, but you do gain the metal focus ring and AFr capability with the XF.


Steve Hendrix/CI

[Doug Peterson]

Excuse the brevity as it is Thanksgiving here in the USA...

Schneider 80mm f/2.8 Mk II for Phase One

I have NOT tested this lens hands on yet, but would hope it to be sharper (especially on the 100mp and 150mp) and have less chromatic aberration when used wide open. The 80mm got an A from us in our Lenses for 150mp ratings and hopefully and update to a Mk II can put it into the A++ category, especially since it's an extremely commonly used focal length (normal for full-frame 645) and is one of the small/compact lenses. Our team will be doing comparisons as soon as we receive one, and will, of course, share the raws for free with whomever is interested.

I also expect that it will make available lower pricing on refurbished Schneider 80mm Mk I lenses lenses.

No pricing yet (on either the new Mk I refurb price or the new Mk II), but will share when available. DT will also likely be doing a trade-in program for a limited quantity of Mk I to Mk II lens upgrades, so contact your sales person if you want to join the queue.

We don't yet have a formal test article up but I can confirm that, as hoped, there is far less CA (at all apertures) and far better sharpness at wider apertures, including wide open.

I suspect this lens will join the A++ Extraordinary list of 150mp lenses when all is said and done with our testing.

[TechTalk]

I would recommend reading the appendix at the end of this article if someone is interested in how lens and sensor resolution produce combined image resolution. It explains the subject well.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/10/more-ultra-high-resolution-mtf-experiments

Excerpts:

I get asked several times a week if this lens or that is ‘capable of resolving’ this number of megapixels. Some people seem to think a lens should be ‘certified’ for a certain number of pixels or something. That’s not how it works. That’s not how any of it works.

Lots of people think that will be ‘whichever is less of the camera and lens.’ For example, my camera can resolve 61 megapixels, but my lens can only resolve 30 megapixels, so all I can see is 30 megapixels.

That’s not how it works. How it does work is very simple math: System MTF = Camera MTF x Lens MTF. MTF maxes at 1.0 because 1.0 is perfect. So let’s say my camera MTF is 0.7, and my lens MTF is 0.7, then my system MTF is 0.49 (Lens MTF x Camera MTF). This is actually a pretty reasonable system.

Now, let’s say I get a much better camera with much higher resolution; the camera MTF is 0.9. The system MTF with the same lens also increases: 0.7 X 0.9 = 0.63. On the other hand, I could do the same thing if I bought a much better lens and kept it on the same camera. The camera basically never ‘out resolves the lens.’

You could kind of get that ‘perceptual megapixel’ thing if either the lens (or the camera) really sucks. Let say we were using a crappy kit zoom lens with an MTF of 0.3. With the old camera; 0.3 X 0.7 =.21. Let’s spend a fortune on the newer, better camera, and we get 0.3 X 0.9 = 0.27. So our overall system MTF only went up a bit (0.07) because the lens really sucked. But if it had been just an average lens or a better lens (let say the MTF was 0.6 or 0.8 ), we’d have gotten a pretty similar improvement.

If you have a reasonably good lens and/or a reasonably good camera, upgrading either one upgrades your images. If you ask something like ‘is my camera going to out resolve this lens’ you sound silly.