Inkjet or B&W?

[enduser]

I've got a 10x8 inch black and white glossy print.  How can I tell if it is an inkjet or wet chemistry item? Thanks.

[nirpat89]

Look under a 10-20X loupe.  In an inkjet print, you should see well defined dots (shape and placement, even though they can do the latter somewhat randomly) vs more diffused look of silver particles, particularly in the highlights.

[stockjock]

It has been decades since I made, or even held, a B&W print but I would have thought one difference that didn't require a loupe would be most inkjet prints will show a gloss differential or something called bronzing if you look at them at from the edge under bright light.  Dye prints and images with a compressed tonal range are less likely to show those effects so it isn't fool proof.

[Paul_Roark]

> ... most inkjet prints will show a gloss differential or something called bronzing ...

Premier Art's Print Shield spray seals the inkjet paper and eliminates the bronzing & gloss differential.  I use it with all my Satin finish Red River inkjet B&W prints.

Note also that with a dedicated B&W inkset -- lots of light gray inks and no bright colors -- the dots are not visible with mild magnification.

Additionally, if one is looking for maximum longevity, a matte, carbon pigment print on cotton-based paper, not having gone through an acid stop bath, is most likely on buffered paper that will resist air-borne acids and should easily outlive the traditional silver print.  I believe 100% carbon pigments, Arches watercolor paper prints will be the only ones that will look about the same for hundreds of years (not that the market cares about this).

FWIW

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
https://www.PaulRoark.com/BW-Info/

[nirpat89]

> ... most inkjet prints will show a gloss differential or something called bronzing ...

Premier Art's Print Shield spray seals the inkjet paper and eliminates the bronzing & gloss differential.  I use it with all my Satin finish Red River inkjet B&W prints.

Note also that with a dedicated B&W inkset -- lots of light gray inks and no bright colors -- the dots are not visible with mild magnification.

Additionally, if one is looking for maximum longevity, a matte, carbon pigment print on cotton-based paper, not having gone through an acid stop bath, is most likely on buffered paper that will resist air-borne acids and should easily outlive the traditional silver print.  I believe 100% carbon pigments, Arches watercolor paper prints will be the only ones that will look about the same for hundreds of years (not that the market cares about this).

FWIW

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
https://www.PaulRoark.com/BW-Info/

Hi, Paul: 

Kind of curious....when you say gray inks, it means same black inks in different dilutions so when the printer spits out a dot it contains smaller quantity of the pigment particles - which then in combination of the paper reflection results in different grays visually.  Am I understanding this correctly?  I also wonder if the commercial gray inks are also similarly diluted blacks or they add some white or do they have some native gray pigment to use. 

:Niranjan.

[Peter McLennan]

Hi, Paul: 

Kind of curious....when you say gray inks, it means same black inks in different dilutions ...

:Niranjan.

Visit Paul's site.  There is a wealth of valuable and accurate information on precisely this topic.

https://www.paulroark.com/

[Simon J.A. Simpson]

It has been decades since I made, or even held, a B&W print but I would have thought one difference that didn't require a loupe would be most inkjet prints will show a gloss differential or something called bronzing if you look at them at from the edge under bright light.  Dye prints and images with a compressed tonal range are less likely to show those effects so it isn't fool proof.

If the print was produced using a a dye inkjet printer you will not see any gloss differential or bronzing.  Best to use a loupe.

[Paul_Roark]

Hi, Paul: 

Kind of curious....when you say gray inks, it means same black inks in different dilutions so when the printer spits out a dot it contains smaller quantity of the pigment particles - which then in combination of the paper reflection results in different grays visually.  Am I understanding this correctly?  I also wonder if the commercial gray inks are also similarly diluted blacks or they add some white or do they have some native gray pigment to use. 

:Niranjan.

"Gray" inks are mostly dilutions of black carbon inks; no white is added.  The main inkset sellers appear to use a combination of carbon with colors to bring the grays more into the neutral range.  A 100% carbon dilute ink is warm.  On glossy paper, it's half way to sepia.  As such, a fair amount of "blue" offset is needed, and for black and white, it's those color inks that are the weaklings.  As such, you'll see in my favored DIY B&W inksets, I try to use the best colors I can buy.  The problems with the third party B&W inksets are often that they cannot afford to use the best (and expensive for them) color inks to offset the carbon warmth.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[nirpat89]

"Gray" inks are mostly dilutions of black carbon inks; no white is added.  The main inkset sellers appear to use a combination of carbon with colors to bring the grays more into the neutral range.  A 100% carbon dilute ink is warm.  On glossy paper, it's half way to sepia.  As such, a fair amount of "blue" offset is needed, and for black and white, it's those color inks that are the weaklings.  As such, you'll see in my favored DIY B&W inksets, I try to use the best colors I can buy.  The problems with the third party B&W inksets are often that they cannot afford to use the best (and expensive for them) color inks to offset the carbon warmth.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks Paul for the info.  I am getting ready to convert my Epson 1430 to do B&W.  Warm print is what I actually prefer so I will keep it simple and go for your basic Eboni matte ink from inksupply.com to start and then see if I want to tweak the tone some.  I am thinking of buying the base and mix them up myself.  Let's see how it goes. 

Thanks for all the work you have done and shared in this area.

:Niranjan.

[Paul_Roark]

... I am getting ready to convert my Epson 1430 to do B&W.  Warm print is what I actually prefer so I will keep it simple and go for your basic Eboni matte ink from inksupply.com to start and then see if I want to tweak the tone some.  I am thinking of buying the base and mix them up myself.  Let's see how it goes. 

Thanks for all the work you have done and shared in this area.

:Niranjan.

Eboni MK, by itself ("black only") is neutral on matte (some more than others).  It's also rather rough; too many dots for up close viewing (degree of roughness varies by printer).  Diluted it's medium warm, with smoothness determined by dilution amount, printing profile and printer drop size (1400 is very small 1.5 pl).  Note that smaller drops tend to produce warmer printing than larger drops.  Dilute PK inks on glossy paper are for very warm (about half way to sepia).

The only 100% carbon print in my wall is an Eboni-6 on Arches watercolor paper (takes 2 MKs for good dmax).   The un-coated Arches prints carbon with about half the warmth of coated matte paper, in general.  (Only a few coated papers are close with dilute carbons; one by Premier Art -- Smooth Bright White 205 weight, I believe, was the best coated paper I found for holding down carbon Lab b.)  Even with the Arches, if I want 100% carbon I use a profile I made that relies on the denser inks more than a standard profile to get the Lab b down.  Arches by itself has a somewhat elevated Lab b.   It's a compromise between warmth and smoothness, and also a function of whether the print is going to be on the wall and not viewed by people up close.

Personally, I decided Canon color pigments used in a toner to neutralize the inks was a more flexible way to achieve a neutral print than was 100% carbon.

See https://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Inkset-list.html for a partial list of inkset approaches I've used.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[mearussi]

Paul, I have an old Epson 9600 that works fine but as Epson has discontinued the manufacture of its inks I was wondering about the feasibility of converting it to B&W. Do you think it's worth the investment or would the IQ be noticeable inferior to newer printers? 

[Paul_Roark]

Paul, I have an old Epson 9600 that works fine but as Epson has discontinued the manufacture of its inks I was wondering about the feasibility of converting it to B&W. Do you think it's worth the investment or would the IQ be noticeable inferior to newer printers?

The 9600 should be a fine platform for dedicated B&W printing.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com &
https://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/

[mearussi]

The 9600 should be a fine platform for dedicated B&W printing.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com &
https://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/

Thanks