Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: HVLP Suggestions  (Read 3131 times)

ssgphoto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
    • Brooklyn Editions
HVLP Suggestions
« on: December 17, 2016, 02:10:24 pm »

I have read some of the previous posts on this topic but wanted to get a last update before purchasing a sprayer to coat canvas. Mostly with Breathing Color timeless matte.
The Fuji seems to be one the top recommended units in particular:
Fuji 2903-T70 Mini-Mite 3 PLATINUM - T70 HVLP Spray System
I'd love any experience and suggestions.
Thanks!
Stephen
Logged

BillK

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
    • http://
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2016, 12:13:57 pm »

I have been using a Fuji Q4 system for a few years now to spray Lyve with Glamour 2 and have been very happy with it.
Easy to do consistent quality work with very few if any issues.
Probably the best system I have ever owned. The Q4 turbine is a 4 stage system, puts out a little higher air pressure about 9psi
where the system you are talking about , I believe puts out around 6 - 6.5psi. Should still be plenty as I have to turn the air down on mine.
The Q4 system is also quieter than the mini might system, the main reason I got it over the mini might. There used to be a video online
that showed the difference in noise between the systems. Might search for that if noise is a concern of yours.
Logged

bill t.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3011
    • http://www.unit16.net
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2016, 04:07:43 pm »

Will concur with BillK on the Q4, which I have used many years with various water and solvent based coatings.  The Q4 can handle thick paints like latex, but has way too much air output for GlamourII and Timeless.  If you use the full output pressure you will get lots of overspray in the air and lots of bounce-back.  I think the smaller turbine you're looking at is a better choice in most ways except noise.  I finally added a garden-hose "Y" connector at the output of my Q4 turbine, with the spraygun hose connected to one output, and a 25 foot long "soaker" hose connected to the other.  The soaker hose has porous walls and dumps about 1/3 the total air output through the pores.  It also acts as a sound muffler.  There is a deafening shriek if I simply partially close the on-off valve on the "dump" output with no muffler attached.

So yes, I think you have a good pick there and it's what I would buy when I replace my ancient Q4.  I have the same T70 spray gun you are looking at and can highly recommend it as an improvement on the previous 2 models.  But that's not to say there might not be equally good choices for less money.  A friend uses a cheaper Earlex turbine with equally good results, AFAIK she hasn't had any issues with it.  With any well built spray system it's mostly a matter of learning its particular quirks.  Unfortunately the first quirkless spray gun has yet to appear.

If the T70 has a notable flaw it might be that during reassembly after a full cleaning it is possible to get an internal leak if you tighten the aperture nozzle too tightly onto the fiddly disc it rests on.  So go easy there.  If you get it significantly too tight, you might need to replace the disc, which I had to do.  In praise of solvent sprays...I use my gun almost every day and haven't had to open it up for cleaning in over a year.  Don't try that with water based sprays.  All I do is spray about 40ml of lacquer thinner after each use.  So easy!  The used thinner gets sprayed into a can and I give it to the ever-grateful fine furniture artist up the road when I get a few liters.

You will have the choice of either an underslung "pressure feed" cup or an overhead "gravity feed" cup.  Since I'm using exclusively solvent spray the gravity cup is the best choice for me because solvent sprays are essentially self-cleaning and keep the narrow passages open automatically.  Because the total surface area exposed to paint is smaller with the gravity cups, clean up is much less hassle than with my old pressure feed cup.  But since water based sprays gum up so easily, the wider passages in the pressure feed cup might be the best choice for Timeless.  Since I have never used the gravity cup with water based sprays I defer to the opinions of those who have.  FWIW the Fuji "gravity feed" guns introduce air pressure into the cup through an air hose, so "gravity" really only refers to position.

PS, initially set up your gun needle so it sprays water at about 150 to 200 ml per minute into a bottle.  That's a good starting point for water based sprays is you move the gun about 1 foot (300mm) per second over the print about 8 inches (200mm) away.  Don't drift away...8 inches should be your max or the spray will get gummy before it lands.   Be sure you're getting coats that look wet for at least a few seconds after landing on the print, otherwise you will be coating your prints with gummy, partially dried powder.  Oh, and the difference between actual temperature and dew point should be at least 10 degrees F.
Logged

stockjock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 284
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2016, 06:52:46 pm »

I realize it is no where near as professional or heavy duty a system but I'm wondering if any of the much cheaper Wagner HVLP sprayers could be used with with Timeless with acceptable results?
Logged

donbga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 454
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2016, 07:18:16 pm »



Why not a quality HVLP attachment driven by a quality air compressor?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 01:22:38 pm by donbga »
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2016, 08:59:19 am »

I've had the Wagner for years and you can usually get the job done with it but it is a pain. It is constantly changing its spray distribution and consistency of spray and you are much more likely to have spotting and inconsistencies in the amount of varnish that hits the canvas. I have got to get rid of this thing and buy a Fuji.

john




I realize it is no where near as professional or heavy duty a system but I'm wondering if any of the much cheaper Wagner HVLP sprayers could be used with with Timeless with acceptable results?
Logged

John Nollendorfs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 623
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2016, 11:29:06 am »

I used the Wagner twin  turbine with results like John describes. Got the cheap $15 gun from Harbor Freight for my stapling compressor and have not looked back.
http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-47016.html

We are  not spraying cars and expecting $10k paint jobs on canvas'. This gun does just fine once you get the hang of using it like Bill describes. Experiment with all the adjustment knobs using water. It's better to spray a bit on the lighter slide and avoid runs. If you do get a run, just lightly dab it off with a paper towel. Spraying with the canvas vertical is probably your best bet. Overlap spray pattern by about 1/3.

I've been using the Rosco Clear Acrylic Glaze diluted 1:1 with water for years with excellent results. Also available in matte (flat) finish, which is way too flat, but you can mix it with the gloss to suit your taste.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/107831-REG/Rosco_150055800128_Clear_Gloss_Acrylic_Glaze.html
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 11:34:58 am by John Nollendorfs »
Logged

stockjock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 284
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2016, 01:43:58 pm »

I used the Wagner twin  turbine with results like John describes. Got the cheap $15 gun from Harbor Freight for my stapling compressor and have not looked back.
http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-47016.html

We are  not spraying cars and expecting $10k paint jobs on canvas'. This gun does just fine once you get the hang of using it like Bill describes. Experiment with all the adjustment knobs using water. It's better to spray a bit on the lighter slide and avoid runs. If you do get a run, just lightly dab it off with a paper towel. Spraying with the canvas vertical is probably your best bet. Overlap spray pattern by about 1/3.

I've been using the Rosco Clear Acrylic Glaze diluted 1:1 with water for years with excellent results. Also available in matte (flat) finish, which is way too flat, but you can mix it with the gloss to suit your taste.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/107831-REG/Rosco_150055800128_Clear_Gloss_Acrylic_Glaze.html

Thanks for your message.  It looks like it would be possible to put together a relatively cheap system using a standalone compressor and the gun you mentioned that would also be a lot more versatile than the Wagner sprayers.  Do you think what kind of compressor you get makes much difference or is it all in the gun?
Logged

John Nollendorfs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 623
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2016, 03:07:48 pm »

Thanks for your message.  It looks like it would be possible to put together a relatively cheap system using a standalone compressor and the gun you mentioned that would also be a lot more versatile than the Wagner sprayers.  Do you think what kind of compressor you get makes much difference or is it all in the gun?

Yes! you need a compressor that can deliver at least 3.5 cfm at 90 psi with a tank. (you regulate air pressure in the line down to about 40 psi) This size is marginal if you are spraying a lot of pieces. These compressors generally run in the $100 range and more. You can't get by with just a little pancake unit--does not deliver enough air.

And yes, I use this same unit to run my staple gun.
http://www.harborfreight.com/20-gauge-wide-crown-stapler-68029.html

Logged

donbga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 454
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2016, 04:19:14 pm »

Yes! you need a compressor that can deliver at least 3.5 cfm at 90 psi with a tank. (you regulate air pressure in the line down to about 40 psi) This size is marginal if you are spraying a lot of pieces. These compressors generally run in the $100 range and more. You can't get by with just a little pancake unit--does not deliver enough air.

And yes, I use this same unit to run my staple gun.
http://www.harborfreight.com/20-gauge-wide-crown-stapler-68029.html

That's a great tip about the stapler. I'll pickup one tomorrow.
Logged

ssgphoto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
    • Brooklyn Editions
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2016, 05:23:30 pm »

Thank you for the detailed replies- especially Bill and Bill. I understand that the solvent would be easier to clean but its just too toxic and to work with. It seems like from a time pint of view being able to ensure I have a quality sprayer that will allow me the least waste in canvas from splatter etc ( although i expect some! ) the Fuji is a solid investment. I guess I can live with the noise.

Logged

Mike Guilbault

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1049
    • Mike Guilbault Photography
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2016, 10:11:14 pm »

I've got the FujiSpray Mini-Mite 3 and love it. I've got the flow cut back (at the hose) and get a nice consistent spray. I don't baby it and it just keeps working. I have the compressor unit behind a wall from the spray room so the noise doesn't bother me. I use it mostly with Timeless on Lyve canvas.
Logged
Mike Guilbault

ssgphoto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
    • Brooklyn Editions
Re: HVLP Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2016, 10:36:33 am »

Thanks Mike for the extra vote of confidence. Its ordered! Any tips or suggestions for Timeless Matte are appreciated.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up