Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: BradSmith on April 15, 2015, 12:06:09 pm
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I've noticed an increase in spelling and grammar errors in published articles. And the current article, obviously written by a non-native english speaking author, is actually difficult to understand because of the clarity of expression. I'm not blaming the author. I think it is the site management's responsibility to be sure that published writing is free of such problems. I don't think it possibly could have been "edited" by Kevin, Chris or Michael. Given the massive effort that has gone into the makeover of the web site, it definitely deserves "quality control" effort on the writing contained in the articles.
Brad
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I vollunter to fex all them mixtakes in da artickale as I’m dyslecic ::)
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Message received. We are traveling and will revisit the article tonight when we are at a hotel with Internet. We will do a better job going forward.
Kevin Raber
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Message received. We are traveling and will revisit the article tonight when we are at a hotel with Internet. We will do a better job going forward.
Kevin Raber
Just how many websites do you know that would respond so quickly and so positively? Good job, Kevin!!
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Kevin,
Thanks for the extremely rapid and positive response. This type of attitude is one of the reasons I love this site.
Brad
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I've noticed an increase in spelling and grammar errors in published articles. And the current article, obviously written by a non-native english speaking author, is actually difficult to understand because of the clarity of expression. I'm not blaming the author. I think it is the site management's responsibility to be sure that published writing is free of such problems. I don't think it possibly could have been "edited" by Kevin, Chris or Michael. Given the massive effort that has gone into the makeover of the web site, it definitely deserves "quality control" effort on the writing contained in the articles.
Brad
I've always thought of the typos and grammar gaffs on the LuLa main site as a long-time trade mark of the site. It's a testament to the quality of the information that LuLa is still as popular as it is. (Not to be picky, but I wonder if the OP notices his double-space after each period/full stop.) ;)
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(Not to be picky, but I wonder if the OP notices his double-space after each period/full stop.) ;)
If you had a typing class in the USA back in the 1960's or 1970's you were taught to always double space after a period. So those of us that went through the educational system back then still do that out of habit. It is just as natural to us as a single space is to you ;)
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Kids these days don't even use punctuation. We should ban its use in the new iPhone forum... ;D
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I’ve really never worried much about this, I sort of like the fact it’s more like a blog and the nuances of the various contributors writing styles make it seem more personal. For the most part they communicate their points effectively and are interesting to read.
That being said, this particular article was a little bit of a struggle, so perhaps some assistance in translating would make it a little more readable.
And yes, I learned to type in the late 60’s and double spacing after a period remains a habit I will most likely never break, and visually I’ve never had any issue with it. Sorry it annoys some so much ... (mmmm, I wonder why my spell/grammar checker doesn’t correct it? Maybe the computer can figure out how to make up for this bad habit)
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There was a time a few years ago that I had the AP Style Book virtually memorized. Has anyone looked at online news sources recently? Spelling, grammar, and punctuation are horrendous. You'd think a news source would have an editor to review content or at least someone to proof for spelling and punctuation. Until all the other websites in the universe clean up their mess, I can't get too excited about some errors on Lula.
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IF spelling, grammar, and punctuation are more important that content, we’re all in trouble.
Yes I too was trained to type using two spaces after a period but rarely do so anymore. It in no way changes or improves the content of the text IMHO. Oh, in the old days you didn’t use IMHO either AFAIK. ::)
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There was a time a few years ago that I had the AP Style Book virtually memorized. Has anyone looked at online news sources recently? Spelling, grammar, and punctuation are horrendous. You'd think a news source would have an editor to review content or at least someone to proof for spelling and punctuation. Until all the other websites in the universe clean up their mess, I can't get too excited about some errors on Lula.
The problem is that most of it is only there as click bait for ad revenue. Rushing out an SEO headlined piece on a 'trending' topic (even if totally speculative with no actual facts) is more important than any standards for the content itself.
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I've noticed an increase in spelling and grammar errors in published articles. And the current article, obviously written by a non-native english speaking author, is actually difficult to understand because of the clarity of expression. I'm not blaming the author. I think it is the site management's responsibility to be sure that published writing is free of such problems. I don't think it possibly could have been "edited" by Kevin, Chris or Michael. Given the massive effort that has gone into the makeover of the web site, it definitely deserves "quality control" effort on the writing contained in the articles.
Brad
Content before presentation. Allways. Story and message before grammar. Allway. Just my hunble opinion.
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And where in my original post did some of you get the idea that I was suggesting that Kevin et al should stop caring about the content of published articles and instead, focus all their efforts on correct spelling and grammar? I don't really think that this site's great content and my suggested improvements are mutually exclusive.
Brad
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And where in my original post did some of you get the idea that I was suggesting that Kevin et al should stop caring about the content of published articles and instead, focus all their efforts on correct spelling and grammar? I don't really think that this site's great content and my suggested improvements are mutually exclusive.
You didn’t and I agree with your last point. I think what most are saying is we’re happy to give Kevin and other’s a pass in terms of spelling and grammar based on the media. It’s far easier to reedit and fix such issues on the web than a printed book which typically undergoes stricter editing. I’d gladly accept spelling and grammar errors and more content than the opposite. I also think we can give them a grace period to update, fix, clarify the writing as necessary.
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Hi,
Absolutely agree. Content may need proofing, too.
Best regards
Erik
Content before presentation. Allways. Story and message before grammar. Allway. Just my hunble opinion.
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It’s far easier to reedit and fix such issues on the web than a printed book which typically undergoes stricter editing.
True, editing a wordpress post is relatively easy.
If anybody notices a typo or other error, they could directly email Kevin with the correct spelling, and based on his availability, an article will get updated in a timely fashion.
I agree with other posters that the content and speed of publishing are more important than delayed, but typo-free text. Fortunately, with the army of willing and competent proof readers, and ease of text revisions, the writing style and grammar of the final article versions won't suffer.
You can think of the first readers as beta testers.
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I suspect that in this particular case it isn't about spelling, typos or even grammar. Different languages have different sentence structure, length and word order. I also dare to suggest that different peoples have different ways of thinking and expressing it. This all leads to a sentence where all the words are correct, no typos, even the grammar might be fine, yet hard to comprehend. Me thinks. As someone who speaks several languages and often resorts to interpreting rather than translating. Ever wondered why Google translation often ends up sounding rather strange?
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If you had a typing class in the USA back in the 1960's or 1970's you were taught to always double space after a period. So those of us that went through the educational system back then still do that out of habit. It is just as natural to us as a single space is to you ;)
I am a product of just this scenario. Old dogs can learn new tricks!
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Content before presentation. Allways [sic]. Story and message before grammar. Allway [sic]. Just my hunble [sic] opinion.
Content with good presentation - always. Story and message with proper grammar - always.
Think of a photograph as an analogy to an article. The content and message of the story correspond to the subject matter of the photo. The presentation and grammar of the story correspond to the technical aspects of the photo. Given the enormous amount of interest and energy here on LuLa devoted to the technical aspects of photography, is anyone going to seriously claim that the "technical" aspects of a written piece don't matter?
And let's face it, there is nothing on LuLa that is really time-sensitive, so the argument that "we can't take time to proofread and correct" rings pretty hollow.
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And yes, I learned to type in the late 60’s and double spacing after a period remains a habit I will most likely never break, and visually I’ve never had any issue with it. Sorry it annoys some so much ... (mmmm, I wonder why my spell/grammar checker doesn’t correct it? Maybe the computer can figure out how to make up for this bad habit)
Don't know what checker you use but with MS Word, the number of spaces between sentences is a check that can be enabled in the proofing options settings. The default is 'Do Not Check' but it can be enabled so as to require either 1 space or 2 spaces. Other punctuation checks that can be enabled include whether a comma is required preceding the last item in a list ('apples, pears, and cherries' versus 'apples, pears and cherries') and whether punctuation goes inside or outside of closing quotes.
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And let's face it, there is nothing on LuLa that is really time-sensitive, so the argument that "we can't take time to proofread and correct" rings pretty hollow.
I suspect Kevin, Michael and some readers here would disagree but it’s not worth the debate.
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Content with good presentation - always. Story and message with proper grammar - always.
Think of a photograph as an analogy to an article. The content and message of the story correspond to the subject matter of the photo. The presentation and grammar of the story correspond to the technical aspects of the photo. Given the enormous amount of interest and energy here on LuLa devoted to the technical aspects of photography, is anyone going to seriously claim that the "technical" aspects of a written piece don't matter?
And let's face it, there is nothing on LuLa that is really time-sensitive, so the argument that "we can't take time to proofread and correct" rings pretty hollow.
As with all other deliveries producing content is a matter of resourses to do the job. These resources will allways be limitied. Anyone claiming different havent been trying to publish. So the discussion is what to prioritize. Some prefer style before content. Thats a matter of taste.
Everyting that currently is subject to Internet publishing is time-sensitive. So any argument "we can't take time to proofread and correct" is stating less published content with a more glossy style. I'm a naysayer to style before content. Sorry to break any illusions, there is still no free lunch.
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Brad, English has a capital E.
Cheers,
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Brad, English has a capital E.
Cheers,
You are quite correct, and the fact that I made this mistake proves the value of having someone proofread (articles) prior to publishing. All I'm suggesting is that with a site that receives over 1 million visits per month, with the wonderful content that it delivers, several minutes spent checking spelling and grammar two or three times a week when a new article is to be published is warranted. Admittedly the specific article that prompted my initial post would have needed more time for editing to improve the clarity of the contents. But as Kevin seemed to indicate in his response, he recognized that this is needed/warranted.
If Kevin, Michael and Chris hadn't believed that professional presentation was important, why would they have spent the hundreds/thousands of hours (and $) reworking the site?
Brad
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This all leads to a sentence where all the words are correct, no typos, even the grammar might be fine, yet hard to comprehend. Me thinks.
"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously", for example.
Jeremy
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"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously", for example.
Jeremy
ROFL Not to put too fine a point on it but the comma goes inside the quotes.
"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously," for example.
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Not to put a finer point on it, but it depends on if you subscribe to the conventions of American English or British English. http://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2011/may/19/mind-your-language-punctuation-quotations
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As Michael or Kevin sometimes say......I think this topic has run its course. Let's move on.
Brad