Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: robdickinson on March 24, 2015, 09:25:37 pm
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Hi people! I have mostly up until now hid my head in the sand on printing , relying on professional printers to do my work for me! I have had great results this way but its time to start learning and working on my own prints, if not for sale just for me. I am working on a dell 2711 calibrated and prints from shops come out looking right.
I've been lucky to have just been gifted a canon Pixma pro 1. I know this has some limitations but in general it looks a decent A3+ printer I can certainly get good prints out of.
Except I dont know where to start! I normally just send stuff to my (mg-6150) multi function without doing a whole lot. I use windows (8.1) and photoshop cc.
I will setup the printer this evening, download canons pack of ICC paper profiles, and have a general muck around. Every time I look at printing it seems to rapidly fall down a rabit hole of colour managent etc often with options in apps I cant find etc.
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I recommend "The Digital Print (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0321908457/)" by Jeff Schewe. It covers everything you need to get a good print.
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Luminous Landscape "From Camera to Print" video tutorial. Check it out on this website's Shop.
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Thanks, will check them both out. was hoping for an online option so the video may work better.
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...Every time I look at printing it seems to rapidly fall down a rabit hole of colour managent etc often with options in apps I cant find etc.
You may have been led down rabbit holes previously.
Actually with Ps or Lr, the printer and its driver, as well as the appropriate ICC paper/printer profiles you have all you need to deal with colour management as far as setting up an image to print appropriately.
I am making an assumption that you are already using a good monitor that is correctly calibrated and profiled.
The CPS tutorials already recommended will quickly allow you to integrate your entire workflow.
Tony Jay
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Thanks Tony. Yes a dell U2711 calibrated.
I have the printer, PC with windows 8/1 above monitor, Photoshop CC. I have loaded ICC profiles into PS before and soft proofed but I think thats abotu as far as I have got.
I dont really have any specific paper as yet, just some test stuff and old stuff. My comercial prints tend to be on canson or ilford gallery but home printing will be more of an experiment.
So I will load up the driver, and get the printer running tonight
What are the top (3?) most important things to do?
Do I let the printer colour manage?
Will experiment and have a look at that video.
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Instead of Jeff's which is a great material, I would also like to suggest:
"Color Management & Quality Output: Working with Color from Camera to Display to Print: (The Digital Imaging Masters Series)" by Tom P Ashe. (http://www.amazon.com/Color-Management-Quality-Output-Working/dp/0240821114/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427264781&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=tom+ashe+color+managemnt)
This book tells you everything you need to know from capture to post processing to output.
Aaron
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If video is something you rather have, then Youtube. Search for Fine art print seminars. It's by EDU something something. Kinda boring, yet covers the topic entirely.
Also Lynda has an inkjet tutorial with 4-5 hours maybe of good material. Helped me a lot.
And last, the search function here, there are tremendous amounts of good threads about printing here.
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Thanks Tony. Yes a dell U2711 calibrated.
I have the printer, PC with windows 8/1 above monitor, Photoshop CC. I have loaded ICC profiles into PS before and soft proofed but I think thats abotu as far as I have got.
I dont really have any specific paper as yet, just some test stuff and old stuff. My comercial prints tend to be on canson or ilford gallery but home printing will be more of an experiment.
So I will load up the driver, and get the printer running tonight
What are the top (3?) most important things to do?
Do I let the printer colour manage?
Will experiment and have a look at that video.
The 3 most important things I would say (and I think other will say other things...):
1. Get a good paper to start with, and use this until you are comfortable with it before using other. I recommend a cheap one so you can use some without anger for the cost.
2. Get profiles for the papers you are going to use, and learn how to use them in PS.
3. Edit your images in ProPhotoRGB or at least Adobe RGB.
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The 3 most important things I would say (and I think other will say other things...):
1. Get a good paper to start with, and use this until you are comfortable with it before using other. I recommend a cheap one so you can use some without anger for the cost.
2. Get profiles for the papers you are going to use, and learn how to use them in PS.
3. Edit your images in ProPhotoRGB or at least Adobe RGB.
Thanks, great tips! I will go hunt down some a3/a4 paper that looks good but not too expensive - this being NZ that might not be easy! Time to see my mates at Photo & video..
Probably find a glossy and a matte.
I will find/download all the profiles I can!
And I edit in aRGB by default, never tried ProPhotoRGB, its a bigger colour space but not sure if its any use?
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...And I edit in aRGB by default, never tried ProPhotoRGB, its a bigger colour space but not sure if its any use?
I would edit in ProPhotoRGB if I were you.
The gamut of the printer is likely much biger than sRGB so you will be leaving print quality on the table.
The Epson 7900 that I use has a gamut (depending a bit on the paper too) that exceeds even AdobeRGB in parts.
Moral of the story - always edit in the largest colourspace you can.
Tony Jay
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Thanks, great tips! I will go hunt down some a3/a4 paper that looks good but not too expensive - this being NZ that might not be easy! Time to see my mates at Photo & video..
Probably find a glossy and a matte.
I will find/download all the profiles I can!
And I edit in aRGB by default, never tried ProPhotoRGB, its a bigger colour space but not sure if its any use?
AdobeRGB, while bigger than sRGB, still isn't enough for rich Yellows and Cyans that your printer can make. If you shoot portraits, maybe it is not as important, but landscapes can often contain colors that are outside AdobeRGB's gamut, but still within your printers.
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AH I didnt realise that, no one I print with talks about larger colours paces than aRGB.
Sadly half the people you talk to dont even understand there is one!
Will edit in prophoto from now on
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AH I didnt realise that, no one I print with talks about larger colours paces than aRGB.
Sadly half the people you talk to dont even understand there is one!
Will edit in prophoto from now on
Rob you really owe it to yourself to get stuck into the CPS tutorials.
Such good grounding there...
Tony Jay
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Thanks, great tips! I will go hunt down some a3/a4 paper that looks good but not too expensive - this being NZ that might not be easy! Time to see my mates at Photo & video..
Probably find a glossy and a matte.
Rob
Greg at Photo and Video can supply a range of Ilford papers that are good. Try the Ilford Smooth Pearl, or Gold Fibre Silk for a beautiful semi gloss finish.
and: Yes, get the Ilford profiles for those papers in your printer, don't be tempted to use third party inks, and edit in ProPhoto RGB to get the best from them. You'll be chuffed!
Tim
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Rob you really owe it to yourself to get stuck into the CPS tutorials.
Such good grounding there...
Tony Jay
By CPS you mean these?
https://luminous-landscape.com/videos/camera-print-screen/
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Rob
Greg at Photo and Video can supply a range of Ilford papers that are good. Try the Ilford Smooth Pearl, or Gold Fibre Silk for a beautiful semi gloss finish.
and: Yes, get the Ilford profiles for those papers in your printer, don't be tempted to use third party inks, and edit in ProPhoto RGB to get the best from them. You'll be chuffed!
Tim
Yep I need to pop in and see Greg about my 50mm etc soon anyhow.
I have ilford (and canson) profiles by canon for the pro 1 which are supposed to be better than the paper manufacturers ones, already installed (well some of them)
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And I edit in aRGB by default, never tried ProPhotoRGB, its a bigger colour space but not sure if its any use?
The benefits of wide gamut working spaces on printed output:
This three part, 32 minute video covers why a wide gamut RGB working space like ProPhoto RGB can produce superior quality output to print.
Part 1 discusses how the supplied Gamut Test File was created and shows two prints output to an Epson 3880 using ProPhoto RGB and sRGB, how the deficiencies of sRGB gamut affects final output quality. Part 1 discusses what to look for on your own prints in terms of better color output. It also covers Photoshop’s Assign Profile command and how wide gamut spaces mishandled produce dull or over saturated colors due to user error.
Part 2 goes into detail about how to print two versions of the properly converted Gamut Test File file in Photoshop using Photoshop’s Print command to correctly setup the test files for output. It covers the Convert to Profile command for preparing test files for output to a lab.
Part 3 goes into color theory and illustrates why a wide gamut space produces not only move vibrant and saturated color but detail and color separation compared to a small gamut working space like sRGB.
High Resolution Video: http://digitaldog.net/files/WideGamutPrintVideo.mov
Low Resolution (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLlr7wpAZKs&feature=youtu.be
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Thanks Andrew ,
I'm convinced about bigger colourspace, I know the theory behind it, its the practice I am lacking! I will watch the video will have lots to learn from it I am sure.
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Try the Ilford Smooth Pearl, or Gold Fibre Silk for a beautiful semi gloss finish.
Tim
Left with some smooth pearl and some cotton textured (gold? cant remember)
And damned, a sigma 50/1.4 art too...
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OK done a couple of prints at the weekend.
Both A4, one on ilford smooth pearl with canons pro 1 ilford profile, and one on gold textured cotton
The smooth pearl came out nice, a little darker and more contrasty than on screen but I kind of expected this, still heaps of detail in the shadows, in good light it looks right.
The cotton was less contrasty and not as saturated (compared to seeing this image on canson photo rag reviously). Its an OK print but not a wow print which I know the image can be.
overall not a bad start - not tweaked anything yet.
Colours seemed to match the monitor which is good ( not been calibrated for a bit, job for the next couple of weeks).
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You know, looking at it on the wall at work and it looks ok .. :D
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Hi Rob,
I startet to print with the Pixma Pro 1 teo months ago. I can give you some tips
* Use the XPS driver version, it allows to use 16 bits printing
* Up to know lightroom/photoshop in windows cannot use the 16 bits directly, but if you use the plugin Canon Print Studio Pro from LR or PS, then it works. For most of the pictures there is no need and LR Print tab it's the most convinien to use. But if you have a smoth and fine gradation in BW (e.g. skies) then you wiill have a subtle but visible banding using LR without the plug in.
* For BW printig remember to set up the BW option in the driver, do not just sent a BW picture. For that option there is no need for manufcturers icc profile (they are for color printing). in LR/PS select "printer manages colors" in that case, unless you have specific icc profile for BW (does anyone have????)
* To use the icc profiles (I use the ones provided by the manufacturers) remember to set up the manual correction/adjustment in the driver, the in the adjustments tab (the second), in color adjustment choose none. Then select the profile of your paper in LR/PS.
* For BW printing here you can adjust the tone (warm, cool...). Usually I stick to the default neutral tone, but not always. With the plugin from canon that tool is right there in the menu once you choose bw printing.
* If I select in the driver the preview option (I alwas do it), then the preview looks awful... in my case that's a good sign, I go on and the get a nice print.
* I do prefer NOT to apply chroma optimizer to the whole picture, but the automatic option. You will save some of this liquid. Some gloss diferentiall will be visible in the brightest areas, but only at angles you don't want to see your pictures unless you specifically look for this differential. And I do not like the chroma optimizer beyond the margins.
* Do not use the auto power save option. Keep your printer always on, unles you are not going to use it for a long time. If you switch on the printer everyday it will suck the inks (= your money).
*Change ink cartridges only when they are completely empty. You can still print a lot with "low level" warning.
* Paper is your choice. Depending on the picture, mood and purpose I do work now mostly with Hahnemühle Photo Rag, Rag Bayta and (especially) Silk Baryta ( aka Ilford Gold Prestige Silk, Canson Baryta Photographic, and others). For some color pitures where I want an extra pop up effect I use Canon Platinum Pro, but I probably change to Harman Gloss baryta for this case, since it's inexpensive, have a better feeling in hands, and the base's white it's not so so cool. I do recomend to get test packes, e.g. from Canson, Hahnemühle and Harman, so you can check other papers and have some (very little) stock of them for very specific occasions.
Enjoy!
Santiago
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* Use the XPS driver version, it allows to use 16 bits printing
How do I do this? I have a pro v1-1 series printer and a pro v1-1 series WS
* Up to know lightroom/photoshop in windows cannot use the 16 bits directly, but if you use the plugin Canon Print Studio Pro from LR or PS, then it works. For most of the pictures there is no need and LR Print tab it's the most convinien to use. But if you have a smoth and fine gradation in BW (e.g. skies) then you wiill have a subtle but visible banding using LR without the plug in.
How do I use Canon print studio pro from Photoshop? I cant see it on a menu anywhere? I dont really do much B&W printing/shooting
* To use the icc profiles (I use the ones provided by the manufacturers) remember to set up the manual correction/adjustment in the driver, the in the adjustments tab (the second), in color adjustment choose none. Then select the profile of your paper in LR/PS.
When I choose photoshop manages colours it tells me to switch off the printer colour management, is this how? ( Canon WS properties, Main tab, colour/intensity to manual?)
* I do prefer NOT to apply chroma optimizer to the whole picture, but the automatic option. You will save some of this liquid. Some gloss diferentiall will be visible in the brightest areas, but only at angles you don't want to see your pictures unless you specifically look for this differential. And I do not like the chroma optimizer beyond the margins.
Thanks
* Do not use the auto power save option. Keep your printer always on, unles you are not going to use it for a long time. If you switch on the printer everyday it will suck the inks (= your money).
OK how do I set this?
*Change ink cartridges only when they are completely empty. You can still print a lot with "low level" warning.
Thanks!
I might be picking your brain for a bit..:D
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OK found the auto power off setting :)
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* Use the XPS driver version, it allows to use 16 bits printing
How do I do this? I have a pro v1-1 series printer and a pro v1-1 series WS
I've never heard about this WS.... actually I see now a WS driver (+ normal, + XPS) for my MG6250, but not for the Pixma Pro. Selecting the driver is just like selecting a printer. You should have "two" Pixma pro Printers options. May be you need to go back to the installation CD and look for the XPS driver. In any event, as I said, this driver is only useful to avoid banding with smooth transitions, most of your prints won't benefit of it.
How do I use Canon print studio pro from Photoshop? I cant see it on a menu anywhere? I dont really do much B&W printing/shooting
Menu "File" -> "automate" -> "Canon Print Studio Pro"
Make sure you have the latest version of this plug in, otherwise it won't work with the latest versions of PS CC.
In Lightroom you will find it in :
Menu "File"-> "Plug-in extras" -> "Canon Print Studio Pro"
But if you don't have a big area with smooth gradations, it's better to go to LR Print section. For PS, however, I find the plug in better, because I can set the borders better. PS, contrary to LR and the plug-in, sets the borders starting from the minimum margin of the paper set by the printer, instead of from the actual edge of the paper, therefore accurate centering is sometimes difficult. (not all the sides of the paper have the same minimum margin).
* To use the icc profiles (I use the ones provided by the manufacturers) remember to set up the manual correction/adjustment in the driver, the in the adjustments tab (the second), in color adjustment choose none. Then select the profile of your paper in LR/PS.
When I choose photoshop manages colours it tells me to switch off the printer colour management, is this how? ( Canon WS properties, Main tab, colour/intensity to manual?)
You are right, photoshop should manage colors if you work with icc profiles.
As you said, go to -> Main tab -> Color/Intensity ->select "Manual", but also go then to "set..." (next to "manual") --> "matching" tab -> "None"
If you print in BW, instead of the option "None" (and others), you will find the BW Tone utility.
Cheers,
Santiago
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Thanks Santiago much apreciated!
I found the print studio installer and it installed a lightroom one, will download the latest to get it into PS CS14
also have a hunt around for the XPS driver, looks like an old format..