Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: texshooter on March 11, 2015, 04:40:14 pm
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Perhaps the most influential article I ever read about creative sharpening was this one by Ron Bigelow...
http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/sharpen5/sharpen5.htm (http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/sharpen5/sharpen5.htm)
It convinced me that edge masks were the way to go. Fast forward a few years, I'm now exploring new techniques/tools--if they exist-- that can make my life easier. Edge masks give me the power to do two-pass sharpening: once for large details and another for fine detail. I try to do as much as possible in PS so I don't have to keep up with third-party software updates; however, my eye has been wandering lately, particularly toward Topaz's Detail plugin. After watching their tutorial here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNWT81TqEPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNWT81TqEPY)
I have to say I'm intrigued.
Because I prefer to ride the shoulders of giants than to figure things out on my own, who here will recommend this plug-in (or something else) as a better alternative to using PS edge masks (and all the trappings that come with them, such as channel mixing, smart sharpen filters, levels adjustments, etc.)? BTW, by "creative sharpening," I mean structural detail enhancement, not contrast control (I'm studying Tony Kuyper's actions for that). Please don't send me links to engineering white papers (my day job is accounting, not coding. I'll have an aneurysm). And yes, I've read Schewe's books (and will likely re-read them). One more for the road before I vanish for a season. Graci.
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Photokit Sharpener 2
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Photokit Sharpener 2
That product hasn't been updated in over four years (correct me if I'm wrong). Makes me nervous.
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Instead of being nervous just download it in demo mode and try it. Nothing like expending a bit of sweat-equity and seeing for yourself.
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Because I prefer to ride the shoulders of giants than to figure things out on my own, who here will recommend this plug-in (or something else) as a better alternative to using PS edge masks (and all the trappings that come with them, such as channel mixing, smart sharpen filters, levels adjustments, etc.)?
Hi,
Al these tools have a place where they can help in the workflow, but for creative 'sharpening', it's hard to find something as good and productive as Topaz Detail. The edge masking thing is a bit 'old school' compared to the power of this plugin. Detail is one of the few must-have plugins that I use, and I use it on almost every image that I process.
Cheers,
Bart
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The edge masking thing is a bit 'old school' compared to the power of this plugin.
I thought as much.
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That product hasn't been updated in over four years (correct me if I'm wrong). Makes me nervous.
You're wrong ;D No reason to (and it has be upgraded over the years as Photoshop has progressed).
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You're wrong ;D No reason to (and it has be upgraded over the years as Photoshop has progressed).
I should add that this product is so comprehensive in the range of presets it offers for both Capture and Creative sharpening, plus the non-destructive ability to adjust any of them to taste, that from a "features" perspective there is really nothing left to be done except to keep it compatible with OS and Photoshop updates, which PixelGenius do routinely. Just because something is a few years old doesn't destine it for the dust-bin by definition. It depends on how good it was to begin with, and this one was and remains superb - my experience using it - I have no other interest.
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Perhaps the most influential article I ever read about creative sharpening was this one by Ron Bigelow...
http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/sharpen5/sharpen5.htm (http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/sharpen5/sharpen5.htm)
It convinced me that edge masks were the way to go. Fast forward a few years, I'm now exploring new techniques/tools--if they exist-- that can make my life easier. Edge masks give me the power to do two-pass sharpening: once for large details and another for fine detail. I try to do as much as possible in PS so I don't have to keep up with third-party software updates; however, my eye has been wandering lately, particularly toward Topaz's Detail plugin. After watching their tutorial here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNWT81TqEPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNWT81TqEPY)
I have to say I'm intrigued.
Because I prefer to ride the shoulders of giants than to figure things out on my own, who here will recommend this plug-in (or something else) as a better alternative to using PS edge masks (and all the trappings that come with them, such as channel mixing, smart sharpen filters, levels adjustments, etc.)? BTW, by "creative sharpening," I mean structural detail enhancement, not contrast control (I'm studying Tony Kuyper's actions for that). Please don't send me links to engineering white papers (my day job is accounting, not coding. I'll have an aneurysm). And yes, I've read Schewe's books (and will likely re-read them). One more for the road before I vanish for a season. Graci.
Bart's comments amoung others got me to look at Topaz Detail. I use it regularly now.
1. Just because a technique or tool is old, does not mean it is not effective. New techniques come with new side affects and problems same as the old ones. Nothing is every really free. What most of the plugins do try to do is make some of the old processes a little less painful and a little more automated.
2. The best tool for the job is the tool you understand best how to use well. I use a few plugins Like Imogenic's Portraiture and Noiseware, Topaz Detail and Clarity when I am targeting things, but I also use Allentech's Perfectly Clear when I just need a fast, good enough, way to handle a folder full of similar images that are probably destined for the web and viewed on cell phones!
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Just tried to go to the Photokit Sharpener 2 site and got a message that tyhe server is not available.
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Just tried to go to the Photokit Sharpener 2 site and got a message that tyhe server is not available.
Works ok for me...exactly what url are you trying?
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Are you using Topaz through Lightroom or PS? I want to test it and guess PS with have more accurate adjustments but LR allows you to work on the RAW file. Which is best?
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I have a suggestion for the Pixel Genius team: Develop a Photokit Sharpener Lite for Scanned Film Images. Provide a subset of the sharpening routines (the ones dedicated to scanned film) and make it run on Photoshop Elements. Price it about 30 or at most 40 dollars.
Many of the folks I know who scan film only use Elements for post-processing. The digital camera people now have the PK Sharpener capture routines built in ACR and Lightroom. They would have to go to the full version of PK Sharpener to get the creative sharpening stuff.
Allan
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We had a version for Elements years ago but it wasn't very successful. Perhaps Elements is more embraced by more users these days, not sure. I have passed your comments to the PG team.
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One wonders to what extent it makes sense for people to stick with Elements when Lightroom is now so affordable. LR Develop Mode sharpening can also be applied to TIFF images imported from a scan process. It could perhaps be useful for the PG team to develop sharpening presets for LR that would be best suited to TIFFs of film scans.
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Mark, I have tried the noise reduction and sharpening tools in Lightroom and find they come up short on scanned film. You have to evaluate both of these tools together because film grain is, I find anyway, more difficult than sensor noise.
I have found the combination of Neat Image applied to remove half the noise/grain then Focus Magic and finally followed up with a presharpen action taken from Bruce Fraser's book to work best for my scanned images.
That's two plugins and an action which could possibly be replaced by one plugin.
Allan
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Hi Allan,
I agree that Neat Image works very well for reducing the appearance of grain in scanned film. However, it can be combined with suitably adjusted LR sharpening to produce a good quality LR-based workflow for the post scan stage. Also not to be ignored, I should mention that the latest sharpening and grain mitigation tools within SilverFast work pretty well if they are handled with care, the main issue being that once set, they get baked-in to any film scan destined for a post-scan workflow that is not SilverFast HDR. For those willing to remain within a SilverFast post-scan workflow using their "HDR" sister application, everything is "undoable" because the unadjusted or "raw" scan is always intact.
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I have a suggestion for the Pixel Genius team: Develop a Photokit Sharpener Lite for Scanned Film Images. Provide a subset of the sharpening routines (the ones dedicated to scanned film) and make it run on Photoshop Elements. Price it about 30 or at most 40 dollars.
At one point we had a product for Elements but it was a real pain to develop and we discontinued it. Elements could just barely run our routines and it's a rabbit hole we won't be going down again...sorry.
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At one point we had a product for Elements but it was a real pain to develop and we discontinued it. Elements could just barely run our routines and it's a rabbit hole we won't be going down again...sorry.
Jeez, lot's of pretty sophisticated tools run just fine on Elements, including the entire Nik Collection.
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Jeez, lot's of pretty sophisticated tools run just fine on Elements, including the entire Nik Collection.
But Nik are plug-in filters, PK is an automate plug-in. Different animal (and different SDK).
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Lightroom sharpening
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I use a variety of techniques depending on the subject matter of the photo. I use all of the ones mentioned above for various purposes. One that is not mentioned is frequency separation sharpening. I use it quite a bit when I have a shot with a lot of high frequency detail. High Pass filter with a density mask utilizing either the green channel or the red channel as a base is another I use often.
Jim
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I use a variety of techniques depending on the subject matter of the photo. I use all of the ones mentioned above for various purposes. One that is not mentioned is frequency separation sharpening. I use it quite a bit when I have a shot with a lot of high frequency detail. High Pass with either the green channel or the red channel is another I use often.
Jim
Jim,
Could you elaborate a bit in how you implement frequency separation sharpening? Topaz plugins or other?
Thanks,
Bill
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Try Focus Magic. It is, in theory, for fixing out-of-focus and lens shake issues (which it does well), but it also works wonders on many other images. I almost never use PK Sharpener anymore, it's just not as good. FM is a PS filter and also (I believe) a stand-alone.
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Jim,
Could you elaborate a bit in how you implement frequency separation sharpening? Topaz plugins or other?
Thanks,
Bill
Bill,
I have a number of separation actions that I use. Cloning/retouching is one application of frequency separation, sharpening another. I use a three layer action I made, with the tutelage of others, for sharpening globally. A different action for spot sharpening. There are a number of resources on the web now with regard to frequency sharpening. There was an interesting article I read a few years back at TwiceBacked Photography...Sean's Blog that explained how it works. Not sure if it's still there.
Jim
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Could you elaborate a bit in how you implement frequency separation sharpening? Topaz plugins or other?
It's not really sharpening, but contrast enhancement. The common implementation in Photoshop requires creating a layer with a high-pass filtered version of the target layer and is then is blended with Overlay, Soft light, or Linear light blending mode. Variations use (the difference between)several High Pass layers with different radii to limit the contrast enhancement to a smaller range. They all risk color shifts and halos, unlike e.g. Topaz Detail.
Cheers,
Bart
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It's not really sharpening, but contrast enhancement. The common implementation in Photoshop requires creating a layer with a high-pass filtered version of the target layer and is then is blended with Overlay, Soft light, or Linear light blending mode. Variations use (the difference between)several High Pass layers with different radii to limit the contrast enhancement to a smaller range. They all risk color shifts and halos, unlike e.g. Topaz Detail.
Cheers,
Bart
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I do things a bit differently and avoid the problems you mention. I don't use the blending modes you mention or high pass filters with different or any radii. I do use Gaussian blur as a low pass filter on a layer. I like Topaz, but I also like edge contrast enhancement sharpening in a variety of flavors dependent on, as always, the picture content.
Jim