Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Mike Sellers on March 09, 2015, 02:22:44 pm
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getting ready to do some 30x40 prints of mostly colorful fall color scenes. What color/style frame should I use? I would like to use a poly style frame for the light weight. Would a gold color frame be appropriate or a darker walnut style frame look good? I found a wholesaler that sells ready made 30x40 frames at $300.00 for 10 frames.
Mike
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Gold has been the kiss of framing death in recent years, especially for photography. I would suggest you avoid it. Unless you are presenting master-level paintings of floral arrangements or pink-toned, Renoir-esque nudes. I won't make specific recommendations because framing taste has a lot of regional variation. Here in New Mexico 3 to 5 inch wide bronze moulding sells pretty well on medium level art, although you do find some very fancy compo and even hand carved and gilded gold frames around some very expensive pieces in the best galleries.
As a general caveat about all moulding, never buy anything without seeing a current sample. You should request a "chip" rather than a corner sample. A chip is just 3" of moulding cut straight across from the end of a stick. Corner samples tend to be made from stock from several manufacturing runs in the past, while chips are usually cut from current stock and will lead to fewer surprises than outdated corner samples.
You must very carefully vet your poly choices because about 98% of poly comes with a plastic gloss finish and cheesy patterns that just scream plastic, but there are a very few nice ones with very natural looking finishes, for instance from Garrett Moulding. Spend a day wandering through your local galleries and take lots of notes not just about frames, but also about surface finishes, reflection issues, placement issues, sizes, and everything that strikes you as significant. That will help you to later see your own work more objectively. Tuesdays are a good day for such gallery crawling as not much will be going on and the bored sales people may be happy to chat about what does and doesn't sell. Their incomes depend on those sales, and they will have strong opinions.
For maybe 10 years the hands-down favorite moulding color has been 1 to 2 inch wide matte black. How sad is that? But true.
Don't think I don't like gold frames. If my price point were in five figures, I might be using these (http://www.goldleafpictureframes.com/). But only on Canyon Road just off the old Santa Fe Trail.
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I'm seeing a lot of White frames in galleries on the West coast. I will be framing a show of 25 40x60s in white.
A fun thing to do if you are good in PS. Take a photo in the gallery of a frame you like. Then you can composite your art in that frame on the wall. You can get a good idea what that framing treatment will look like.
It is also a good cheap way to show a customer approx. what it will look like in a certain frame.
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White frames is the current banner for bleeding edge through somewhat avant garde contemporary work, or for work that was recently bleeding edge etc but is now normalizing. Think Miami Basel, Paris Photo Los Angeles, stuff like that. I think it would be a stretch to show classic fall photography in white, but I'm willing to be surprised. It's important to size up your audience ahead of a show, and then pander to the max. I'm planning to test a print in a white floater frame, not floated at the front but sunken to the back as though sitting at the bottom of a box. That's to pander to an emerging young, condo buying market near an important gallery for me. I hope. Those ingrates will probably want black aluminum sectional.
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White is the new black.
If you want to see what any image will look like framed with variations on mat boards then you can upload it to my website and select the framing options from Custom Framing - Quote and Simulation Tool.
http://www.aspirationimages.com
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A little more about equipment then the actual frames.
If you are selling that many pieces you may want to look into setting up shop to do your own.
For years I have given up any and all framing even with the equipment I have because I did not want to be in the framing business but….
The canvas gallery wrap business has gone a little flat so we started changing out some of the samples in our showroom to framed canvas on gatorboard.
It is finally taking off. Maybe it is true, you are not going to sell it unless you show it.
We had the CTD dual mitre saw with an AMP corrugated stapler which does a fantastic job putting together stretcher frames.
The corrugated staple machine does not do a good job on mdf,or softwood frames so we just did not do framing, period.
The frame requests kept coming so I finally splurged an got the AMP U-300. It is the entry level model at $2500 but for now it is more then enough machine.
Gosh what a difference over that corrugated stapler. 5 minutes to cut a frame with the CTD and maybe all of 5 minutes to assemble with V nails.
Easy to learn even if you have never done it and takes up very little space.
A very good investment in your business if you are a craftsman and enjoy this type of work and want to make more money!
Opens up many new avenues for your business. Start buying case lots of your favorite moulding and save a ton.
Just being able to do one offs of an expensive moulding for that special client will pay this stuff off in a heartbeat.
Canvas Miracle Mucked to Gator in Mahogany frame.
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Hey Dan, that looks great up there on the wall!
Those rounds are a classic look that just can't go wrong. The inner lip helps in that kind of treatment, it reduces the perceived need for a matte by separating the image from the main part of the frame. Peter Lik used that style of moulding for a long time before going to rugged looking Roma leaf veneers.
I frame almost everything, and haven't made a gallery wrap in a long time. Have recently done some experimentation with ACM panels, and while those have earned me some new clients with contemporary decor, what puts the most food on my table is what's in your picture. Frames give you a strong competitive edge at all venues, it's very difficult for wraps and panel treatments to compete against framed pieces side by side on the same wall. Most buyers think framing costs a ton of money, and even with a pretty stiff mark up for your efforts they tend to feel they're getting a bargain and saving hassles over a wrap only.
As I'm sure you know, look out for those hardwoods! Not many underpinners can drive into that stuff. I know some folks using thumbnailers for that purpose. Scary name.
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Thank you Bill,
Bought my first case of the moulding shown above $3.21 a running foot.
Price for chops of the same moulding $10.12 per foot. Thats a huge savings. That money is now going in my pocket. :)
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I found a wholesaler that sells ready made 30x40 frames at $300.00 for 10 frames.
Beware of cheap frames as they often cost more in lost sales then you can ever recover through savings.
Fwiw, If you have a local wholesale picture frame distributor or even know of some in the area or region contact them, have your your business license info nearby, preferably scanned and in the format of a PDF file, and ask them to set up an account.
Once you set up an account, they will no-doubt provide access to at least hundreds of different awesome moulding types along with reasonable prices. In addition, you will get access to vast frame making resources and capabilities for a lower cost than you might imagine. Many also make completed frames on request. All you have to do is tell them the size of the works and also the moulding materials you want to use and some other minor details. A day or 2 later you can pick up the finished works. Often they also include delivery. It is worth some phone calls to find out….
Imo you need to make at least a couple of hundred frames per year to justify setting up a frame making shop. Once you do the cost per frame drops a lot. Of course the other side of the debate is that once people find out you do custom frame making, you will receive a number of inquiries...
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... I found a wholesaler that sells ready made 30x40 frames at $300.00 for 10 frames.
Care to share? Or PM me instead.
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I found a wholesaler that sells ready made 30x40 frames at $300.00 for 10 frames.
Mike
If that works for you and they are quality frames then fine. However you are then making the print to match the frame. You should be making the frame to match the print. That is what custom framing does. So the majority of the value (the print) is being compromised by the garnish.
As an example (i will try to work in inches), if you have a 30 x 40 frame and you have a 2" border on the mat then your image needs to be 26" x 36". That aspect ratio may not look good for a lot of images. You are therefore forced to use undesirable aspect ratios or use borders which are not symmetrical which usually looks poor.
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Great info Dan!
I'm looking into a cheap way to make a couple dozen 40x60ish white frames for a Museum show. Great info.
Maxi
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Finally found them: http://www.wholesaleartsframes.com
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Buy one each of a couple smaller samples first. You heard it here.
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I tried brown and black samples then settled for white with no Mat. That is the trend right now, but you have to decide on how you want to present your work. It's very personal!
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I've been a custom picture framer for over 30 years and if the pictures on that site are true representations of their products, those are some of the trashiest looking frames I have ever seen :o I wouldn't put my art in them !!!!
I agree with Bill, get small samples to be sure you like them!!
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I recently came across a company named Michelangelo Moulding who makes a nice cross section of moulding types, including some that are polystyrene. They have distributors in the USA and Canada.
http://www.michelangelomoulding.com/html/polystyrene.html
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Michelangelo does have very nice mouldings and they are a very good value for the money. Aesthetically safe for institutional art. They're a Canadian company but have distribution centers in the US too.
I bought 10 representative boxes a few years ago and found that about half of them were hardwoods that were almost impossible to cut on my Morso chopper, and almost impossible to underpin. You would need a saw, and a biscuit joiner or thumbnailer for that subset. It's why I bought a saw. A lot of Indonesian mouldings are the same way. BTW, saws are better even with the sawdust, end of story.
Always get a chip or corner sample first, and test it with your equipment. If that looks promising, buy at most 1 box of each design to see what the current stock is like, because it changes a lot over time, and that goes for all manufacturers even the best.
The rabbet-less "flats" from Michelangelo are kind of interesting from a production sense. You can screw on big pieces of art to the back of those things, so long as the substrate doesn't come within more than 1/2 inch of the edge. Eliminates precision cutting, and it's a cheap way to go.
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Aesthetically safe for institutional art.
LOL.
I’ve found that showing a variety of frame types at the display invites people to ask about art work #1 with frame type #3, which is not productive. Having many frame types also degrades the display. Due to that I settled on 2 frame types. One for the smaller works and one for the larger ones.
Re the problems you noted with an underpinner, what pressure were you using at the compressor and what kind of v-nails? Most issues come from too low of pressure and/or the wrong kind of v nails. The nails for soft woods are far less sharp than for hard woods. The design of the soft wood nail is to help bunch the wood tissue which tightens the bond between nail and wood. In contrast the hardwood nails are designed to slice more readily through the media since the strength is provided by the wood itself, and of course the glue. Many underpinners don’t restrict the pressure at the v-nailer, so if your compressor will generate 130 to 150 psi so will the underpinner's nail driver.
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I have an industrial strength underpinner and the correct, wood-smashing nails, but even that wasn't enough. With moulding 158-20, I had to stand with both feet on the Morso pedal to take the tiniest bites, and the blades were dull after cutting a single corner, no exaggeration. Maybe that was an unusual batch, but what a PITA. I had sold a piece based on a corner sample, and that was a lesson well learned. My poor Morso was designed for kinder, gentler moulding than we see in these harsher times, and now sits sadly in the corner.
A couple years ago Michelangelo's 262-50 was an incredible bargain for a genuine veneer moulding, and was so popular is was unobtainable most of the time. BTW. Some of the others used way too much compo, and in some cases paper veneers, but hey they were fairly priced for what they were and they look great on the wall. I gave up on Michelangelo because US distribution was flumoxing during the recesssion, maybe it's better now.
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The reason I mentioned Michelangelo Moulding is that they sell in both the US and CA and offer a high quality polystyrene; but mostly because they sell through distributors. Due to that the OP may be able to get some quality polystyrene frames. Even tho they will probably cost more than $30 each they have a reasonable chance of helping to sell the art.
Never worked with a manual chopper. They seem a pain to use even if quiet other than the groans of the operator. Regarding the underpinner, while I’m not doubting your word, what air PSI do you run in the underpinner?
BTW I’m embarrassed to acknowledge it but after my last post I went back and read a bit about v-nails. That’s not the part that’s humiliating, but when reading it I found I incorrectly noted the application of v-nail types to wood media in my previous comment. According to this source: http://www.pfmproduction.com/pdfs/pfmp_spring06/pfmp_spring06_nails.pdf
Underpinner nails come in different grinds—that is, different angles on their cutting edges designed for either soft or hard wood. They are normally ground primarily on one side, with a small grind on the other to remove burrs. MDF nails are ground equally on both sides so the point is in the center of the nail. A softwood nail also has a sharper angle than a hardwood nail. “A softwood nail is sharper and cuts through the fibers like a knife to create a stronger assembly in softer woods,” says Convey of ITW AMP. “Hardwood nails are blunter and crush through the fibers of the wood. The bigger the nail, the more material you press into, the more important it is to have the proper grind. MDF also takes a thicker nail. While our hardwood nail will work in a lot of MDF, what’s called MDF is often high density fiberboard. That takes a thicker nail because a normal hardwood nail will bend in the material.”
The rest of the article is a good read. The reason I mention this is both to correct my post and also suggest that enough air pressure and perhaps a different type of nail (MDF) would have done the job…
Received a 90 lb box of 2.25” wide moulding yesterday and need to put G2 goo on some stuff and make frames for the show next week. That will be the first major Art show of spring and the last indoor show until next October. Almost time to put away the lights and carpet and get out the 10' x 20' canopy and add 2 hours to setup time!
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I had the VN4 cranked up to 120 psi, which is way too much. That could barely drive a single 13mm nail into that 2" high moulding from Hell that needed three times that many nails on each stack. Applying principles learned in industrial design 101, I ditched that moulding, and have lived happily ever after.
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Something to be said about not locking horns when there are other solutions. . .
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…the VN4 cranked up to 120 psi, which is way too much.
Not that I wish to belabor the point but fwiw, according to the AMP support tech I spoke with a couple of weeks ago the air psi going to the underpinner can be higher. He suggested 135 or > . This pressure goes to the v-nail driver. The built in pressure regulator controls what makes it to the clamps and other pneumatic bits. Running 135 psi to the clamps and other bits is too much for most wood and can dimple or otherwise damage softer media.
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according to the AMP support tech I spoke with a couple of weeks ago the air psi going to the underpinner can be higher. He suggested 135 or >.
I can sink a 16D common nail from a pneumatic framing nailer into 4" thick yellow pine with only 120psi. Needing 135psi to install a quarter to half inch long V-nail is ludicrous. Like Bill said the material must be too dense and just plain not worth messing with. It's also quite likely that running an underpinner at such a high pressure will cause undue stress and wear on the bumper inside the ram resulting in premature failure of said ram. - Jim
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These guys wrote the book on hardwood moulding. Read the first sentence in the part labeled "Nailing."
http://vermonthardwoods.com/joining_frames.asp
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I can sink a 16D common nail from a pneumatic framing nailer into 4" thick yellow pine with only 120psi. Needing 135psi to install a quarter to half inch long V-nail is ludicrous. Like Bill said the material must be too dense and just plain not worth messing with. It's also quite likely that running an underpinner at such a high pressure will cause undue stress and wear on the bumper inside the ram resulting in premature failure of said ram.
Thanks for the comments. I’ll go with the recommendations of a factory trained technician who is employed by AMP. The condescension and baseless conjecture offered by you is a joke.
These guys wrote the book on hardwood moulding. Read the first sentence in the part labeled "Nailing."
The people at AMP wrote several books on underpinners, commonly referred to as product instruction manuals, plus they design, build and support their tools. You can follow the rationalizations of random wood workers who support a theory you like, if you want but I’ll go with what AMP suggests as they actually know something about their tools. Sorry if that detail is lost on you...
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Hi Bill
In the same article they mentioned colored waxes to finish up not too perfect joints.
Any brand in particular? Hopefully something that can be found in Lowes or Home depot
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Not that I wish to belabor the point (but you did anyway, what are supposed to believe?) but fwiw, (it's worth less than nothing, read on) according to the AMP support tech I spoke with a couple of weeks ago (there's the baseless conjecture) the air psi going to the underpinner can be higher. He suggested 135 or > . (I seriously doubt it and explained why in my last post)
Thanks for the comments. (You are welcome. I hope you'll learn something from them.) I’ll go with the recommendations of a factory trained technician who is employed by AMP. (So will I when I see these recommendations in writing from AMP not your baseless conjecture.) The condescension and baseless conjecture offered by you is a joke. (There's nothing funny about you irresponsibly spouting inaccurate third-party hearsay on a public that can adversely impact human safety!)
The people at AMP wrote several books on underpinners, commonly referred to as product instruction manuals, (in which they post that the maximum pressure is 100psi except for the largest machines which is 110psi) plus they design, build and support their tools. (Right! So they should know!) You can follow the rationalizations of random wood workers (or me, with over 40 years experience, 30 of which with pneumatics) who support a theory you like, if you want but I’ll go (YOU can do whatever you want just don't profess it in a public forum) with what AMP suggests as they actually know something about their tools. (They do, RTFM) Sorry if that detail is lost on you... Justan, what's lost here is that it is irresponsible to make unsubstantiated modifications to manufacturers specifications that could injure someone in a public forum . I don't know why you thought you needed to make it personal - with me it's merely safety first.
If you can convince your AMP technician to post an official addendum to the owner's manuals stating that it is safe to set the pressure to 135psi I'll bite my tongue. Until that time I maintain that is unsafe.
What would you do if I posted something like: "I was talking to a licensed electrician the other day and he said that you can hook up 110 volt power tools to 220 volts no problem."? - Jim