Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: uheck on March 03, 2015, 07:52:07 am

Title: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: uheck on March 03, 2015, 07:52:07 am
Hi dear Collegues,

the current published images of the upcoming 5Ds from Canon are the worst I ever saw from a "professional camera company".
They are so bad that they have the power to draw potentially interested photographers away from the brand.
Whoever intiated this PR nightmare should get fired.
Im speechless.
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 03, 2015, 09:20:03 am
???
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Phil Indeblanc on March 03, 2015, 11:33:05 am
what images are you talking about?
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: pegelli on March 03, 2015, 12:08:50 pm
Somebody had to do it  ;)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f260/muar_chee/threadisworthwopics.gif) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/muar_chee/media/threadisworthwopics.gif.html)
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Justinr on March 04, 2015, 04:47:47 am
???

+1
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: ben730 on March 04, 2015, 06:43:58 am
+1

+1
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on March 04, 2015, 09:11:20 am
I have to wonder whether Uheck might work for the PR department at Nikon. Or perhaps Sony. Canon???  ???
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: zlatko-b on March 04, 2015, 06:43:32 pm
Eager to see these horrible photos that left someone speechless.  Once more ...

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f260/muar_chee/threadisworthwopics.gif) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/muar_chee/media/threadisworthwopics.gif.html)
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Phil Indeblanc on March 04, 2015, 10:32:55 pm
Heck U uheck! Heck U!!

 :-\
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Jan K. on March 05, 2015, 12:26:56 am
Now you've scared him away!  ;D

But he did say:

... the current published images
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: uheck on March 05, 2015, 02:35:24 am
ha!
 ;)

Actually Canon pulled the shots.Google might be lucky to find them.It was the hippo, the coastal line etc. 6 shots in total.
6 sub par shots.
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on March 05, 2015, 05:03:28 am
ha!
 ;)

Actually Canon pulled the shots.

No they didn't:
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5ds/ (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5ds/)
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5dsr/ (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5dsr/)

Quote
It was the hippo, the coastal line etc. 6 shots in total.
6 sub par shots.

Actually, I've seen worse Out-Of-Camera JPEGs from Canon on earlier occasions, so these are passable in comparison. Do they demonstrate the best possible, of course not, it would only disappoint less competent users ...

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: pegelli on March 05, 2015, 08:05:40 am
Thanks for finding them Bart

I don't think anybody at Canon PR will get in trouble over this (and not at Leica either) (http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Funny/ROFLMAODog.gif)
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: hjulenissen on March 05, 2015, 08:25:39 am
It puzzles me that dedicated hobbyists seemingly can produce (simultaneously) technically and aestetically better picures from a given camera than billion dollar camera manufacturers can/will. Why don't they hire the top e.g. National Geographic photographers for a week with generous salary in order to create the most mind-blowing image files that money can buy?

1. Does Canon and friends see JPEG as the main thing their camera delivers, and the quality of OOC-Jpeg as the most important quality to show their customers?
2. Are they afraid that doing too much photoshopping image editing will create a customer backlash and/or lack of product differentiation?
3. Does Canon think that internet enthusiasts/pixel peepers are irrelevant to sales?

I believe that when Ibanez are releasing a new (expensive) guitar, they will hire some amazing guitar player/show-man at Frankfurt messe in order to strike a chord (literally) with prospective customers?

-h
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Rhossydd on March 05, 2015, 08:32:52 am
Where have these dreadful animations come from ?
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 05, 2015, 09:50:49 am
... 6 sub par shots.

Again, why are they "sub par"?
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: ihv on March 05, 2015, 09:55:34 am
I think this all is nothing but intentional to give some credibility of non-retouched imagery (as much as it is possible).

In the end, either way we would have complaints.
- How come my camera doesn't produce anything even close to those images in the promotional materials, have I got a faulty product????

Hi dear Collegues,

the current published images of the upcoming 5Ds from Canon are the worst I ever saw from a "professional camera company".
They are so bad that they have the power to draw potentially interested photographers away from the brand.
Whoever intiated this PR nightmare should get fired.
Im speechless.
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: hjulenissen on March 05, 2015, 10:05:49 am
I think this all is nothing but intentional to give some credibility of non-retouched imagery (as much as it is possible).

In the end, either way we would have complaints.
- How come my camera doesn't produce anything even close to those images in the promotional materials, have I got a faulty product????
While I mentioned something similar a couple of posts ago, there is a counter argument:
Most photographers (or rather: camera owners) are, subjectively speaking, mediocre. They/we are incredibly far from doing the best possible for a given camera.

As there is no lower limit to mediocreness, how incompetent should Canon produce their marketing images in order to ensure that every single customer was able to produce something close to it?

I'd think that customers accept that marketing material tries to portrait a product in the very best light (pun intended) possible. "With tailwindwind, downhill and meatballs for dinner" is a saying in my native language that might not translate very well speaking about the very fastest that e.g. a car can drive.

If Canon shot marketing images for the 750D using a MFDB, this would clearly violate the subjective expectations of their marketing-reading customers (and would be a scoop for MFDB manufacturers). But using their very best (handpicked) lenses, very best manual focusing technique, some tasteful photoshopping before shipping a jpeg? I think that is sensible.

-h
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Phil Indeblanc on March 05, 2015, 02:54:44 pm
They are not taking one chef and feeding everyone the same meal. Its a tool for everyone to be their own chef.
I too thought the hippo image was a less than nice, but as others pointed out I think they lower the level of the camera potential. They are not saying this is what you can do with this camera. They are saying here is a jpeg SOOC, take a look. There were even blown outs on that image. Its OK. They had a couple other nicer ones, yet still they were OK, nothing meaty. Maybe when it releases they will do a properly lit advert image with it?
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: dwswager on March 05, 2015, 02:55:16 pm
I have to wonder whether Uheck might work for the PR department at Nikon. Or perhaps Sony. Canon???  ???

I find this amusing.  Let's face it, after 5 years of Canon not making any headway on sensor performance, I think Nikon/Sony shooters are pretty much over it.  Had, on the other hand, the 5Ds PR guys said that it meets or exceeds the current sensors on the market, THEN, I think some Nikon fanboys would have gone apoplectic. Most likely he is a Canon shooter trying to keep the faith, but getting BF'd by Canon.  And he didn't say FROM the 5Ds, he said OF the 5Ds!
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: digitaldog on March 05, 2015, 02:59:27 pm
NActually, I've seen worse Out-Of-Camera JPEGs from Canon on earlier occasions, so these are passable in comparison. Do they demonstrate the best possible, of course not, it would only disappoint less competent users ...
I agree. Hardly worth getting out the axes and pitchfork's for these images.
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 05, 2015, 04:15:59 pm
It puzzles me that dedicated hobbyists seemingly can produce (simultaneously) technically and aestetically better picures from a given camera than billion dollar camera manufacturers can/will. Why don't they hire the top e.g. National Geographic photographers for a week with generous salary in order to create the most mind-blowing image files that money can buy?

1. Does Canon and friends see JPEG as the main thing their camera delivers, and the quality of OOC-Jpeg as the most important quality to show their customers?

On your point above, my view is that the main reason is relationships with some local photographers (no personal judgement on their qualities).

On the second point, do we know for a fact that these samples are out of camera jogs? My understanding was that they were jpgs that had been generated by the Canon raw converter?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Phil Indeblanc on March 05, 2015, 10:16:36 pm
Very possible. I think I went on with something in the thread and stamped it jpeg sooc. strike that to be a possible. BUT, if they are, why would you not bring down the highlights? COME ON REF!!!??!  Maybe they were raw, then NO adjustment converted to jpeg? :-) this is going far! (I need a cross-eyed emoticon!)
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: ErikKaffehr on March 05, 2015, 11:39:17 pm
Hi,

The eos5ds pictures look decent to me, 5DR less so.

Best regards
Erik

No they didn't:
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5ds/ (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5ds/)
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5dsr/ (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5dsr/)

Actually, I've seen worse Out-Of-Camera JPEGs from Canon on earlier occasions, so these are passable in comparison. Do they demonstrate the best possible, of course not, it would only disappoint less competent users ...

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on March 06, 2015, 03:24:50 am
On the second point, do we know for a fact that these samples are out of camera jogs? My understanding was that they were jpgs that had been generated by the Canon raw converter?

Hi Bernhard,

On the files that I checked (with EXIFTool), there is no trace of auxiliary software being used to create the JPEGs. Canon's DPP software would write a mention of it having been used in the IFD0 tag of the EXIF data of the JPEG. If I'm not mistaken, Photoshop also leaves traces. Nothing to convince a court of law (we'd have to use at least an active file authentication/verification setup when shooting), but I do not see obvious evidence that leads to conclude that we are not dealing with OOC JPEGs.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on March 06, 2015, 03:54:21 am
The eos5ds pictures look decent to me, 5DR less so.

Hi,

It's hard to say from the images, but we also need to understand that data from 4.14 micron pitch sampled pixels looks different than from larger pitch pixels. For instance, the Hippo shot was maybe (don't know the size of the beast, so I'm guessing) shot at some 30-35 metres, which means that a single pixel represents 0.25 to 0.29 mm on the subject, which is in motion ... There was also no deconvolution Capture sharpening involved.

Smaller sensel pitches are also more affected by things like diffraction. At f/5.6 the diffraction pattern has a diameter of some 7.9 micron, which is already 91% larger than the sensels (if we assume 100% fill factor due to gap-less microlenses). So it already has a visible effect. Proper Capture sharpening is an absolute need before we even start contemplating to draw conclusions.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Hans Kruse on March 06, 2015, 04:26:42 am
Hi,

The eos5ds pictures look decent to me, 5DR less so.

Best regards
Erik


If you download e.g. the Fantasy and import into Lightroom and use the default sharpening a=25, r=1.0, d=25, m=0 the details comes out nicely. If you on top of that edit for the shadows and highlights a bit then it starts looking a lot better. Actually something one would do in a real photo anyway. Surely having a RAW file and support in Lightroom it would look better. But I don't think the pictures deserve the harsh comments so many have given them here. The good thing is that I have always seen the actual quality from the Canon cameras as better than the introduction samples :)
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 06, 2015, 08:41:56 am
.... But I don't think the pictures deserve the harsh comments so many have given them here. ...

Agreed. But then again, they come from the usual tire-kickers.
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: David Anderson on March 06, 2015, 06:03:24 pm
Really ? Where they that bad ??
I thought they did the job of demonstrating the resolving power of the new body pretty well and that was surely the point.
I've seen FAR worse images used to 'demonstrate' new gear. - especially from 3rd party reviewers.
(not on LuLu  ;))

As an example, if you want to show me a new wide angle lens, I want to see the quality of the corners more than want to see what it looks like hand held, at high ISO wide open.  ::)

Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: zlatko-b on March 06, 2015, 09:16:42 pm
Hi dear Collegues,

the current published images of the upcoming 5Ds from Canon are the worst I ever saw from a "professional camera company".
They are so bad that they have the power to draw potentially interested photographers away from the brand.
Whoever intiated this PR nightmare should get fired.
Im speechless.

This is the forum equivalent of a hit and run crash.  Or more like criticize and run.  First we hear the photos are the "worst I ever saw" from a camera company and someone should get fired, and the OP is speechless because of how bad they are.  Then there's brief followup to say the photos are "sub par".  But no explanation as to why or how.  I took a look a the hippo photo and saw that it was excellent, immediately discrediting the OP's assertions.  I looked at the other photos, and they are certainly fine.   It's so darned easy to be a critic ... just say something is really bad and you're done!  Apparently being "speechless" can mean you can speak badly of someone else's work and not bother to give any reasoned thought or explanation to support the criticism.
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: ErikKaffehr on March 07, 2015, 03:14:54 am
Hi,

You are right, I was mostly relating to the "Hippopotamus" image, which is a bit oversharpened. The other two probably need a bit more sharpening.

The portrait shoot with the 5Ds is very nice.

Great pity they didn't post raw images.

Best regards
Erik


If you download e.g. the Fantasy and import into Lightroom and use the default sharpening a=25, r=1.0, d=25, m=0 the details comes out nicely. If you on top of that edit for the shadows and highlights a bit then it starts looking a lot better. Actually something one would do in a real photo anyway. Surely having a RAW file and support in Lightroom it would look better. But I don't think the pictures deserve the harsh comments so many have given them here. The good thing is that I have always seen the actual quality from the Canon cameras as better than the introduction samples :)
Title: Re: Someone @ CANON PR should get fired
Post by: Rhossydd on March 07, 2015, 04:45:56 am
It's so darned easy to be a critic ... just say something is really bad and your done! 
Welcome to the internet.
Quote
This is the forum equivalent of a hit and run crash.  Or more like criticize and run.
Actually THIS forum is actually rather good. If you read through here properly and follow what is written, it has a far better signal to noise ratio and quality of contribution than most internet forums.