Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Other Raw Converters => Topic started by: DrRAW on January 24, 2015, 05:56:28 pm

Title: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on January 24, 2015, 05:56:28 pm
First of all, let me say hello to everybody in this forum: this is my first post, although I've been frequently visiting the luminous lanscape in the past years, always learning something new each time.

I would like to introduce to the readers of this forum a new open source RAW editor, called PhotoFlow, hoping that there will be people interested in the project.

PhotoFlow (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/) is a fully non-destructive layer-based editor, which means that the image processing is performed using layers and layer masks (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/09/tutorial-creating-and-using-luminosity.html) (like in photoshop). It can directly read and process RAW files, using code inherited from Darktable (http://www.darktable.org/) and RawTherapee (http://rawtherapee.com/).

The list of provided tools is already quite complete:

- loading of RAW (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/09/tutorial-how-to-process-raw-image-in.html), TIFF and JPeg files, including EXIF data and embedded ICC profiles
- fully color-managed processing in floating-point precision
- real-time preview of the processed result
- on-the-fly colorspace conversions
- several color-correction tools:
  - brightness/contrast adjustment
  - custom tone curves (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/09/tutorial-using-curves-tool-in-photoflow.html)
  - channel inversion
  - horizontal, vertical and radial gradient
  - hue/saturation adjustment
  - black & white conversion (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/11/black-and-white-conversion-in-photoflow.html) (desaturation or channel mixer)
- gaussian blurring
- sharpening
- cropping (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2015/01/photoflow-update-crop-tool-foreground.html), scaling and rotating
- optical corrections via lensfun (experimental)
- interface with the G'MIC (http://gmic.eu/) filters:
  - several smoothing algortihms, including the well-known "dream smoothing (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/12/news-gmic-dream-smoothing-filter-added.html)"
  - color and B&W film emulation (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/11/patrick-david-film-presets-included-in.html)
  - tone mapping
  - interactive foreground extraction (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/10/two-new-photoflow-features-integration.html)
- freehand drawing (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/10/two-new-photoflow-features-integration.html)

All tools are implemented as non-destructive layers (except a couple of very slow ones), meaning that the tool parameters can be tweaked at any moment and the effect immediately seen in the preview window. The layers structure, including masks and tool parameters, can be saved as a sidecar XML file.

I am providing an up-to-date windows installer here (http://aferrero2707.github.io/PhotoFlow/#downloading-and-compiling-windows), and Ubuntu packages are available from Dariusz Duma PPA (https://launchpad.net/~dhor/+archive/ubuntu/myway). Linux users can also compile the code from source following the instructions given here (http://aferrero2707.github.io/PhotoFlow/#downloading-and-compiling).

Here are few additional resources: github repository (https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow), project's homepage (http://aferrero2707.github.io/PhotoFlow/), google+ (https://plus.google.com/112083183053602237219/posts/p/pub?hl=en) page and dedicated blog (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/) with several step-by-step tutorials.

The project is relatively young (about 1 year of spare-time development) and the program is likely to crash from time to time, however I think that it has already reached a stage where complex edits can be created, saved and exported to TIFF or JPeg. Moreover, given the editing approach similar to photoshop, lots of tutorials and well-known techniques can be successfully used in photoflow with (hopefully) not too many difficulties.

I will greatly appreciate any positive or negative feedback, with the hope to get professional and advanced users involved in the project, especially for reporting their experience and suggestions for improvement. Please take into account that I'm by no means earning my life with this project, I'm just working on it for fun, intellectual interest and personal research.

 Thanks for looking!
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on January 26, 2015, 06:45:03 pm
better get familiar with porting to Mac.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on January 27, 2015, 05:40:17 am
better her familiar with porting to Mac.

Support for Mac packages is in the todo list, but as I'm not really an expert on that nothing has been done so far...
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Stardog2 on February 10, 2015, 03:48:46 pm
It doesn't seem to support orf files (Olympus) even older orfs.  I know it's too early to worry about Camera support but when you're ready I'll give it a test.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on February 11, 2015, 06:56:08 am
Actually, ORF files are supported but were not listed when using the "Open file" dialog. I've now added an "All files" selector in addition to the existing "Image files" to allow choosing files that are not recognized as "TIFF" derivatives. You will however need to compile from the GitHub sources in order to get this update, at least for the moment.

Alternatively you can also run photoflow from the command line and append the ORF file name directly after the photoflow command, at least for some initial testing. This will work also with the photoflow version you already have.

In any case, in order to properly "develop" the RAW file you will need to add a "RAW develop" layer on top of the opened RAW file. The "RAW develop" tool will let you adjust the white balance, the exposure, the demosaicing method and the color rendering (if you have for example an input ICC profile specific to your camera). For details, you can have a look at this (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/09/tutorial-how-to-process-raw-image-in.html) tutorial on the photoflow blog.

Thanks for looking!
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Plateau Light on March 15, 2015, 01:04:47 pm
better get familiar with porting to Mac.
+1..... I know more Mac users than Windows users when it comes to photo editing and graphics users.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: AlterEgo on March 15, 2015, 03:07:58 pm
+1..... I know more Mac users than Windows users when it comes to photo editing and graphics users.
I do not have any chinese friends, ergo chinese people do not exist in any significant numbers
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on March 15, 2015, 04:11:42 pm
+1..... I know more Mac users than Windows users when it comes to photo editing and graphics users.

I do not have any chinese friends, ergo chinese people do not exist in any significant numbers

I've some good news... I'm almost done with porting the application to OSX. The code already compiles and runs fine, only the bundling is still missing before I can provide an installable package. This will hopefully not take more than few more days.

Together with the already existing Windows and Ubuntu Linux packages, this should satisfy almost all existing as well as virtually non-existing users ;-)
Other Linux users still need to compile from sources for the moment...
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Jim Kasson on March 15, 2015, 04:32:22 pm

I would like to introduce to the readers of this forum a new open source RAW editor, called PhotoFlow, hoping that there will be people interested in the project.


Kodak, or what's left of them, might give you a hard time about the name. Seeing as how both products relate to photography, I think adding the "w" at the end might not be enough difference.

Jim
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on March 15, 2015, 05:04:20 pm
Kodak, or what's left of them, might give you a hard time about the name. Seeing as how both products relate to photography, I think adding the "w" at the end might not be enough difference.

Jim

Thanks for pointing that out... actually, after starting the project I've realized that there exist at least another software project with exactly the same name, a flash image gallery generator. As my code is free, open source and non-profit, it will be rather easy to rename it, for convenience or necessity. At least, I would prefer not to do that during this early phase of development...
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: tnargs on April 14, 2015, 02:01:39 am
What features are you offering that nobody else offers?

And what are you hoping to do better than anyone else is doing?

Comparison example: RawTherapee?
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on April 14, 2015, 03:15:56 am
What features are you offering that nobody else offers?

And what are you hoping to do better than anyone else is doing?

Comparison example: RawTherapee?

Photoflow organizes the editing into layers, layer groups and layers masks, like photoshop or Gimp. Each layer is associated to a specific editing tool (curves, sharpening, blurring, etc...). However, all tools work non-destructively. For example, if one adds a gaussian blur layer the blur radius can be changed at any moment, and the preview image will immediately reflect this change. This is true for most of the rest of the tools. Each layer can have an associated grayscale mask for local editing.

RawTherapee has no support for layers and layer masks, and as far as I know has very limited local editing capabilities.

To my knowledge, photoflow is the only open source project offering non-destructive layer editing directly on RAW images. Moreover, it uses very little resources (it can edit a Nikon D810 RAW file with as little as few hundred MB of RAM), it allows to open and edit several images at the same time, and integrates a growing number of filters from the G'MIC project (http://http://gmic.eu).
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: tnargs on April 14, 2015, 03:29:49 am
Thanks, that's the 'point of difference' that I was trying to grasp.  :)
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on April 15, 2015, 07:57:36 pm
I guess you have never heard of PhotoLine.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: tnargs on April 15, 2015, 08:31:40 pm
Photoline is commercial.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on April 16, 2015, 02:46:45 am
Photoline is commercial.

Exactly! PhotoFlow is free and open source, meaning that you can actually SEE how things work, change and improve the code if you want, and use it without paying a single cent.

In addition, PhotoFlow runs natively under linux in addition to windows and osx.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on April 20, 2015, 01:36:56 am
PhotoLine is only sort of commercial, it's very cheap and has an active interaction with its very friendly German developers who are happy to share details of the code. I actually prefer Iridient to any of the RAW developers/editors I have ( I have so many I don't bother to count them but it's more than ten including Photoshop) because it handles my Fuji without any problems, after some discussion with the developer two versions ago.
Are you saying you have released the OSX version? Not as of Friday you haven't.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: bernie west on April 20, 2015, 02:48:21 am
Your webpage URL is stuffed. (i.e. the "webpage" link from your blog).
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: lhodaniel on April 20, 2015, 05:00:00 am
I'm getting nothing on opening D800E NEFs. I guess I'm out.  ???
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: ario on April 20, 2015, 05:33:02 am
I have tried to open ARW and DNG files with no result.  (OSX 10.10)
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on April 20, 2015, 11:44:09 am
Your webpage URL is stuffed. (i.e. the "webpage" link from your blog).

Thanks! I've fixed the link.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on April 20, 2015, 02:05:59 pm
I'm getting nothing on opening D800E NEFs. I guess I'm out.  ???

I have tried to open ARW and DNG files with no result.  (OSX 10.10)

If your photoflow window looks like the first attached screenshot, it is "kind of normal" (but certainly ugly and buggy, something I've fixed in the upcoming version). The reason is that when a RAW file is opened, there is by default no processing applied, just a mere decoding and conversion into a grayscale image corresponding to the bayer pattern.

In order to properly process a RAW image, one needs to add a "RAW developer" layer, which will allow to adjust all the common parameters like the white balance, exposure, color matching, etc...
All details are explained here: http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/09/tutorial-how-to-process-raw-image-in.html
The RAW developer settings can be saved into one or more presets, to be easily re-applied to other images.

The second screenshot shows a Sony A7 II ARW file opened with the forthcoming photoflow version available for OSX (the current version has wrong output colors), using the default "RAW developer" settings. As you can see, the file is handled correctly...

Nikon D800 files should also be processed correctly once a "RAW developer" layer is properly added. Moreover, for Nikon cameras there is a rather simple way to exactly match the colors of the in-camera JPegs (or those produced with Capture NX-D). Again, the details are explained in the blog: http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/09/tutorial-how-to-match-nikon-in-camera.html

I hope this helps.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: ario on April 20, 2015, 02:38:05 pm
Yes, what I am getting is similar to the first screenshot, both with ARW and DNG (Leica) files: raws and columns of gray dots on a white screen.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on April 20, 2015, 03:12:15 pm
Yes, what I am getting is similar to the first screenshot, both with ARW and DNG (Leica) files: raws and columns of gray dots on a white screen.

Then my solution should work: click on the "+" button below the layer list to add a new layer, choose the "RAW developer" from the second tab, and wait a bit for the program to cache the preview image data... it should work.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: bernie west on April 20, 2015, 10:16:41 pm
Doesn't recognise my D810 raws.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: ario on April 20, 2015, 11:30:57 pm
Fuji X-Trans files are not supported.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on April 21, 2015, 06:23:05 am
Doesn't recognise my D810 raws.

I've just released new binary versions for osx and windows, which provide better support for new cameras (including the D810). Here are the download links:
windows: http://aferrero2707.github.io/PhotoFlow/#downloading-and-compiling-windows
osx: http://aferrero2707.github.io/PhotoFlow/#downloading-and-compiling-osx

With a bit of work to extract the camera ICC profiles from Capture NX-D, you should be able to get exactly the same color output as the camera jpegs, if you want to.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on April 22, 2015, 01:37:44 am
Fuji X-Trans files are not supported.

X-Trans support is not yet implemented, but planned in the near future.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on May 08, 2015, 03:48:59 pm
 
New PhotoFlow binary versions for Windows and OSX are available for download:
http://aferrero2707.github.io/PhotoFlow/#downloading-and-compiling-windows
http://aferrero2707.github.io/PhotoFlow/#downloading-and-compiling-osx

The main changes are:
- Fix of a serious bug in the freehand drawing tool
- The program now warns the user when closing an image with unsaved modifications (see here: https://plus.google.com/112083183053602237219/posts/UGC7FdccWii)
- Crash recovery (see here: https://plus.google.com/112083183053602237219/posts/Kyi2SN6V8js)

Updated Ubuntu packages are also available from Dariusz Duma's PPA: https://launchpad.net/~dhor/+archive/ubuntu/myway
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on May 15, 2015, 01:31:46 am
I opened the May 3 version (0503?). I couldn't get it to do much. I opened my user folder but it would not show, much less open any images from Pictures Folder on my Mac. So I picked a jpg that was listed below the folder, the Printer Test Image. This opened, but I was unable to find any way to do anything with it. I clicked on something that was next to the listed image in the right hand window and it gave me a window in which I could select a different type of adjustment layer. I selected vivid color but nothing happened. I wasn't able to find any curves window or anything else. Then of course, Quit PhotoFlow doesn't work. I had to force quit. All these things were true of the previous version. If this app is to be useful it needs to be less opaque or have at least a photo flow for dummies help.  Right now it is completely unusable for me. I have every photo app there is and this is totally non intuitive.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on May 15, 2015, 01:34:54 pm
I opened the May 3 version (0503?). I couldn't get it to do much. I opened my user folder but it would not show, much less open any images from Pictures Folder on my Mac. So I picked a jpg that was listed below the folder, the Printer Test Image.

This is really strange... I'm on OSX myself (10.9.5) and I have no issues to access the Pictures folder... which OSX version are you using?

Quote
This opened, but I was unable to find any way to do anything with it. I clicked on something that was next to the listed image in the right hand window and it gave me a window in which I could select a different type of adjustment layer. I selected vivid color but nothing happened. I wasn't able to find any curves window or anything else.

I have few tutorials and screencasts already available, to show the basic usage:
http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/09/tutorial-how-to-process-raw-image-in.html
http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/09/tutorial-using-curves-tool-in-photoflow.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiBN3wXa6fs

Quote
Right now it is completely unusable for me. I have every photo app there is and this is totally non intuitive.

The project is very young, and for the moment it somehow reflects the "habits" and personal view of its author... this happens quite often with new open source projects. And this is why I'm looking for users feedback. What is intuitive for me clearly isn't for others...
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on May 15, 2015, 08:51:45 pm
I'm running OS 10.9.5. I will read your tutorials and see if I can grasp the underlying concept, which appears to be very layer oriented like PhotoLine. Thanks for your quick response, and I certainly appreciate the effort you are putting into this.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: smahn on May 15, 2015, 09:01:07 pm
I appreciate the effort too, but I also have tried the program several times and always end up running away in frustration.

On e thought is to have some default layers or groups in place with default settings upon the opening of an image.

Exposure/Color/Detail/Output is a common theme.

If the interface were essentially Raw Therapee with layers I'd be ecstatic.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on May 16, 2015, 08:46:13 am
I appreciate the effort too, but I also have tried the program several times and always end up running away in frustration.

On e thought is to have some default layers or groups in place with default settings upon the opening of an image.

Exposure/Color/Detail/Output is a common theme.

If the interface were essentially Raw Therapee with layers I'd be ecstatic.

The initial idea I had in mind when I started the project was to implement a GUI more similar to GIMP or Photoshop than RawTherapee, i.e. a set of tools with their own configuration dialogs instead of a side tabbed panel containing all the controls. This of course can be changed, it really depends on what possible users find more convenient.

Concerning the possibility of having a default set of tools ready upon opening an image, this can be already realized using presets. What you can do is to open a first image, add all layers and layer groups that represent your "template" edit, and then save the whole layer structure (except the background layer containing the opened image) into a "preset". Next time you open an image, you can load your "template" preset to get back all the default adjustments. Would that be an acceptable workaround? An example of how to save and reload presets is given at the end of this tutorial: http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2014/09/tutorial-creating-and-using-luminosity.html

By the way, compared to RawTherapee there are some other advantages: it is possible to open more than one image at the same time, and also load two or more images as separate layers that can be blended together (for example to combine different exposures through luminosity masks).
However, there is definitely a lot of work still needed on the interface and usability...
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: mouse on May 26, 2015, 03:29:57 pm
All of the you-tube tutorials you have cited play without sound.
I assume this is not intentional.  All other you-tube videos play just fine on my win7x64, Internet Explorer or Firefox.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on May 26, 2015, 05:28:56 pm
All of the you-tube tutorials you have cited play without sound.
I assume this is not intentional.  All other you-tube videos play just fine on my win7x64, Internet Explorer or Firefox.

Actually this is intentional, at least for the moment... those are the first screencasts I've ever produced, and I still need to equip myself with a good voice recording system. Plus the lack of time for preparing a decent speech in english. This is not my main professional activity, and the limited spare time has to be shared between coding and tutorials preparation (screencasts and blog articles), so I need to make some compromises.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: mouse on May 26, 2015, 06:11:03 pm
Actually this is intentional, at least for the moment... those are the first screencasts I've ever produced, and I still need to equip myself with a good voice recording system. Plus the lack of time for preparing a decent speech in english. This is not my main professional activity, and the limited spare time has to be shared between coding and tutorials preparation (screencasts and blog articles), so I need to make some compromises.



Thanks for the reply.  I will attempt to follow the "silent movie" and learn from it.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 06, 2015, 04:59:39 pm
A lot of work has been put in PhotoFlow development since my last post, including a full revoking of the GUI.
The program is not faster, more stable and with lots of new features.

The attached screenshot shows the program in action with a relatively complex edit.

Pre-compiled packages are available for OSX, Windows and Linux. See here (https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow/releases) for installation instructions and a complete changelog, or the recent blog entries (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.com) to learn more about the new features.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 07, 2015, 12:05:39 am
Thanks for the headsup. I downloaded the new version and will see if I have a better experience this time. I'll try to detail my voyage.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 07, 2015, 12:43:35 am
In contrast to the previous version, I was able to open an image from the Pictures folder. I got it to fill the window, and I created a new Group Layer. I then selected Lighten, but after that I was unable to affect the image in any way, although I didn't try Opacity. I expected to see some sort of slider to lighten the layer, but there was nothing. I clicked on everything clickable and nada. The zoom in and out magnifying glass doesn't do anything at all. Is there a tutorial for version 0.2.2? I don't seem to grasp the concept. The app just doesn't have any adjustments that I can find for the layers you create.  WTF?
Also, OS 10.10.5, the app still won't Quit. Had to Force Quit just like in Mavericks.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 07, 2015, 02:12:47 am
In contrast to the previous version, I was able to open an image from the Pictures folder. I got it to fill the window, and I created a new Group Layer. I then selected Lighten, but after that I was unable to affect the image in any way, although I didn't try Opacity. I expected to see some sort of slider to lighten the layer, but there was nothing. I clicked on everything clickable and nada.

PhotoFlow works in a way similar to Photoshop: you have layers and layer groups, which can be combined with those below them by various blending methods, like "lighten". Layer groups per se do not modify the image, unless they contain some adjustment layer, in which case the group allows to assign a common opacity and blend mode to al the adjustments it contains.

Now, in order to add a new adjustment layer one has to click on the "+" button at the bottom-left of the application window. A dialog should pop-up where you can select all the available tools (simply select a tool and click OK).

Once a layer as been added, the corresponding controls (curves, sliders, etc...) can be accessed by double-clicking on the layer name; the controls will appear on the right of the preview area.
Here (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2015/08/new-photoflow-release-020-is-out-with.html) is a description of the GUI layout and of the various buttons/controls.

Here are a couple of resources to start understanding the program:
- a basic video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiBN3wXa6fs) (unfortunately with no sound)
- a detailed step-by-step tutorial (https://pixls.us/articles/a-blended-panorama-with-photoflow/) on how to blend several bracketed exposures of a landscape shot


The zoom in and out magnifying glass doesn't do anything at all.
Also, OS 10.10.5, the app still won't Quit. Had to Force Quit just like in Mavericks.
This is definitely strange... I'm regularly testing the app under 10.10.4 and I never observed such problems... I have the impression that in your case the application simply gets stuck somewhere. If you manage to run the application from the terminal (on my system I simply need to run "/Applications/photoflow.app/Contents/MacOS/photoflow") I would be interested to see the output.
Also, can you quit the application if you do not open any image?

Thanks, and I hope to have given you enough informations to be bale to give photoflow a try. At the moment I've kind of stopped the development and started to work on the documentation, as this is badly missing.
The main documentation resource will then be the github wiki (https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow/wiki).
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 07, 2015, 04:58:53 pm
Thanks for the explanation. I will keep playing around with it, and I will definitely try to Quit without opening an image.  Something needs to be done to make the app more "intuitive" which someone in another forum defined as "what we're used to".  Going down several levels to find the tools is not something anyone is used to, I think. But given the layer orientation of this app, I think it has to be that way, so you need an explicit roadmap at the top level of the app for new users.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 08, 2015, 12:16:42 am
It will not Quit even without opening an image. I opened the same image as before, that I had alraedy created a Group Layer. I clicked on the little plus and it created what I guess an adjustment layer This brought up a menu strip above the layer list. Each subitem under the menu item said no help available. Nothing I clicked on brought up any sliders or buttons or cursors. Then the app froze and I had to force quit. I know I'm just doing hit every key, but this app just seems inscrutable. 10.10.5, My Yosemite is very sick, though, I'm taking it in for Disk Warrior tomorrow. Worst upgrade in history, wrecked Kindle and the App Store and made every app I have slow to load and slow in operation, Safari gives me spinning beachballs, Finder icons don't move and labels flicker, absolute POS.
So I'll try again after the health check. Sorry bout that.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 08, 2015, 08:36:08 am
So it could be that the freezes are not directly related to photoflow... maybe you will tell me if things work properly after the repair.

Concerning the addition of an adjustment layer, once you have the dialog with all the tools listed (and the missing help, I know...), you have to select one (for example the "curves" tool in the color tab) and either click on the "Ok" button or double-click on the tool itself. This will close the dialog and will add a new layer in the list on the left of the preview image.

At this point (and similar to photoshop), you have to double-click on the layer name to open the corresponding controls (which will appear on the RIGHT of the preview image). Assuming you are working with a curves tool, you should see a box with a diagonal line on the right side, because the curve is initially "neutral" (input=output). Click on the diagonal line to add new control points, and drag the points to modify the curve.

Other tools work in a similar way. For example, from the same color tab you can choose the "B/C/S/H adjustment" (for Brightness/Contrast/Saturation/Hue) which has sliders to adjust the brigthness, contrast, saturation and hue of the image.

I hope this better clarifies the basic mechanism of adding and modifying layers in photoflow. I'm working on a better screencast to show the basic functionality of the program, but it is not ready yet...
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 08, 2015, 04:49:50 pm
I double clicked until it sounded like a castanet solo but no tools came up. I'm about to take it in for help with Yosemite, so no further reports for a couple days.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 08, 2015, 05:13:49 pm
I double clicked until it sounded like a castanet solo but no tools came up. I'm about to take it in for help with Yosemite, so no further reports for a couple days.

Ok, that is definitely strange... time to take my microphone and record a short tutorial video to show how to add some layers and do some basic editing. Hopefully things will become more clear afterwards.

Thanks for looking, and I hope to come back to you soon!
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 08, 2015, 11:13:13 pm
My Mac shop wasn't terribly busy for a change and their prices and service have become far more user friendly, so I sat with the tech as we went through my grievances and ran Disk Warrior among other tools. My mini now boots twice as fast, my applications folder loads instantly, Safari is responsive as is Thunderbird, it seems that the minor annoyances are gone. The App store will not do updates, even though it worked in the shop, so I'll have to report it.
Photoflow will not quit without force. The tech found this to be true as well. I was able to open the tools by following your instructions. The magnifier + and - work. When I double click on Photoflow in my Apps folder it does not open. I have to do it again.
In Sharpen an Intensity slider appeared  in the left side but did not seem to do anything, although the image was a bit over sharpened to my eye after that tool was applied,  I used the same slider in the right side but again could not see that it did anything.
I open the same image each time and each time there is a crash report in the left hand upper corner.
I'll continue to play and betray my ignorance.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 09, 2015, 01:49:53 am
I might ask your help to further dig the "quit" problem, if you don't mind, as I've never seen that before...

Concerning sharpening, the "intensity" slider is meaningless for this tool, and its presence is a mistake that I have overlooked. Will be removed in next version. For now, you can adjust the "opacity" to reduce the strength of the sharpening, as well as play with the radius.

The sharpening tool offers two algorithms to choose from: the classic Unsharp Mask (USM) and an iterative deconvolution filter (RL deconvolution) which is slower but tends to produce better results. This second option has an "iteration" parameter in addition to the radius. For my edits I usually keep the iterations between 10 and 15 and the radius somewhere between 1 and 2 pixels.

The sharpening tool shold look more or less as in the attached screenshot.

The crash report is there to allow the recovery of an unsaved image in the case of a crash. If you choose "Yes", Photoflow will open the edit in the status as close as possible to the one before the crash, otherwise the last saved version will be opened.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 09, 2015, 11:46:48 pm
I'd be glad to help if I can. It has to be Force Quit with or without opening an image. Yosemite 10.10.5. 2012 mini i5 16 GB RAM. Out of hundreds of apps I have only had this once before years before on a g4 and it too was a developmental app.
I imagine your RL deconvolution is blind, there's no need to do anything but Gaussian according to the central limit theorem. So I'm not crazy and Intensity doesn't do anything. I'll go back and use RL and opacity (until you rename it Intensity). Edit: I did go back to my sharpen layer and use RL. Slid back and forh several times without any apparent effect using the Opacity slider. No blur at zero, no halo at 100 Que pass? When I create the layer the image appears a  bit sharper, of course it opens in USM 100.

 I think the "crash report" should be relabeled in a less threatening manner. It doesn't inspire confidence.  Speaking of that, could you put a couple of functions in the menu bar? The starkness of a lower case app name with no other items in the menu bar is disconcerting and does not conform to best practices.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 10, 2015, 12:06:08 pm
I did some more investigations of the "Quit" issue, and indeed the program does not catch the quit request from the application menu or the Alt-q shortcut. This is a bug that I have to fix in next versions. For the moment, the only way to cleanly quit is to click on the "Exit" button in the top part of the application window. Thanks for pointing that out!

Concerning the sharpening tool, I have put in attachment three screenshots that show the effect of the "radius" slider. The first screenshot shows the non-sharpened image, the second the result of applying a small radius of 1.5 pixels and the third one a large radius of 20 pixels.

As you can see, the radius parameter controls the "coarseness" of the details that get enhanced by the sharpening process. In fact, the unsharp mask works in a rather simple manner: it subtracts a blurred copy from the original image, in order to extract the "high frequency" components, which are then added back to the original image so that they get "enhanced". The radius parameter controls the blurring step, and therefore the "coarseness" or "frequency band" of the details that get enhanced (small radius -> small blur, larger radius -> larger blur).

If you set the radius very large, you get what Dan Margulis calls "HiRaLoAm sharpening", a quick 'n cheap method to increase the local contrast.

The "Opacity" slider controls instead "how much" of the sharpened image gets combined (or better blended) with the original one: 100% opacity means that only the sharpened image is kept, 0% opacity corresponds to the original image, and 50% means that each pixel corresponds to the average of the initial and sharpened image.

The "sigma" parameter of the "RL deconvolution" method has a similar meaning, however this tool works in an iterative way and therefore contains a second parameter to control the number of iterations. The more the iterations, the stronger the enhancement of the details at the scale given by the "sigma" parameter. This is somehow similar to what the opacity slider does, but not exactly equivalent.
Personally I find that sigma=1.5, iterations=15 and opacity=80% give in most of the cases nice results with the RL deconvolution tool.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 10, 2015, 07:52:24 pm
Glad I could help. Excellent explanation of your two modes. I will keep HEKking and get a better handle on your app.  Thanks for calling attention to "Exit".
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 11, 2015, 12:34:06 am


There are no tool tips for these. In USM sharpening I clicked on the one to the right of the rectangle with a hole in it and the app crashed. When I clicked on Reopen it crashed again, but then Reopen worked.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 11, 2015, 08:36:45 am
For the meaning of the buttons in your screenshot, you can check this wiki page (actually the first page I had time to write in the wiki, but I plan to add much more information in the next days): https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow/wiki/User-interface-overview

I agree that tooltips would be helpful, another good things to add in next release.

Thanks!
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 11, 2015, 10:27:25 am
In USM sharpening I clicked on the one to the right of the rectangle with a hole in it and the app crashed.

In any case, the app should not crash when activating the button with a small push-pin... this button allows to make a layer "sticky", such that the output of this specific layer is shown in the preview instead of the merged result of all layers. Useful to check the output of an intermediate layer in a complex edit...
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 11, 2015, 07:37:48 pm
The standard Apple crash report was submitted for the two crashes. Don't know if you get the feedback. I figured the pin was sticky, and the box with a hole was tool menu, not sure about the other two.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 12, 2015, 11:12:56 am
I doubt that I will receive the Apple crash report, as PhotoFlow is not really a "certified Apple software"... I'm working on a DMG with debugging symbols compiled in, which will generate much more meaningful and detailed crash reports (at the expense of some performance loss, so take this version really only for crash reporting).

Once you will have reproduced the crash with the debugging version, the best would be to copy-past the crash report into a issue on github, by clicking on the "New issue" button from this page: https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow/issues.

Now coming to the four top buttons in the tool controls widget, their meaning is as follows:

- the first from the left (the circle with a vertical bar) toggles on/off the visibility of the layer

- the second one (the square with a dark circle) enables/disables the application of the opacity mask associated to the layer (useful to quickly visualize the effect of a mask)

- the third one is the "sticky" button

- the fourth one (the small pencil), when enabled, puts the corresponding layer in "editing mode". In this mode, the tool grabs the control of mouse clicks and gestures in the preview area, to allow for interactive adjustments. For example, the rotation tool allows, when in editing mode, to draw a line in the preview area which is the forced to become horizontal or vertical (depending which option is closer). You can for example straighten a seascape by drawing a line on top of the horizon... Only few tools have such kind of "interactive" mode, for the others clicking on this "pencil" button has no effect.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 12, 2015, 06:29:49 pm
I hope you will consider making your Menu Bar more conventional by adding File Edit View Tools Help eventually, and making all internal type and tool symbols at least one font size larger. I have a 1920x1200 monitor and my old eyes can hardly see them. Probably way too small on higher rez displays and impossible on 4k.
If I get another crash, I'll try to do as you say. When is the debugging version going to be out?

It looks like you and I are the only ones still in here, wonder why?
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 13, 2015, 04:33:52 am
I hope you will consider making your Menu Bar more conventional by adding File Edit View Tools Help eventually, and making all internal type and tool symbols at least one font size larger. I have a 1920x1200 monitor and my old eyes can hardly see them. Probably way too small on higher rez displays and impossible on 4k.

The application is actually HiDPI-aware, at least regarding text in the buttons and lists, so it is probably looking better on a retina display than a conventional 1920x1200 monitor... I will see how to define separate styles for HiDPI and conventional hi-res displays.

If I get another crash, I'll try to do as you say. When is the debugging version going to be out?

I checked and the OSX dmg for version 0.2.2 already has debugging symbols compiled in, so you can directly copy/paste the crash report if it happens again.

It looks like you and I are the only ones still in here, wonder why?

The project is very young and has still limited visibility, not talking about the lack of documentation... I definitely still have an hard job in front of me before I can reach a wider users base. But I'm convinced that the concept is worth the effort, as it is the only free editor offering non-destructive layers "a la photoshop"...
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on October 13, 2015, 07:20:12 pm
Copy/paste the crash report to what?  Not sure I know what to do.
Your effort is to be applauded. I think you should ask 35-40 bucks for it when you get to release 1.0. No need to be that altruistic, a good product will sell.
Iridient Raw Developer is so worth the nominal price, and yours will be too.  Adobe needs to be challenged, they have become insensitive to their user bases.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on October 14, 2015, 02:46:51 am
Thanks for your encouragement! Actually the program uses quite a lot of source code released under the GPL license, and as such I need to make the source code of PhotoFlow public as well. Therefore, selling the application would not make much sense.

Instead, my plan is to try crowdfunding the project as soon as it has sufficient visibility and a base of potential users. This will allow to continue using existing source code, something which has made the development much faster than if I had to write all the code myself...

Concerning the crash report, at least on my 10.10.4 system when the application crashes a dialog pops up, where I can choose to "send the report". If this button is clicked, the dialog will show a long and detailed stack trace of the crash, which is what I'm asking you to copy.

You can then for example paste this text into a new issue on github: https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow/issues/new

Thanks!
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on November 05, 2015, 03:22:14 pm
Yet another feature release is out!

PhotoFlow 0.2.4 brings some cool new features:

* LMMSE demosaicing, better suited for noisy images than the default Amaze. The algorithm is derived from RawTherapee (http://rawtherapee.com/).

* Impulse noise reduction tool, also derived from RawTherapee

* An interactive perspective correction tool, derived from Darktable (https://www.darktable.org/usermanual/ch03s04.html.php)

You can read more on PhotoFlow's blog (http://photoflowblog.blogspot.com/).

Installations instructions for Linux, Windows and OSX can be found on the release web page (https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow/releases/tag/v0.2.4).
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on November 10, 2015, 06:26:42 pm
I've started recording some video tutorials to explain how to edit photos with PhotoFlow.

The first tutorial covers the basic usage of the program (opening a file, adding layers to selectively adjust the contrast and saturation, using layer masks, and saving the work in PFI format):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQpyJapbxrY
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: AlbertInfrance on December 16, 2015, 06:12:54 am
Have you been able to add Fuji .raf support for X-trans sensors, yet?
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on December 16, 2015, 12:31:43 pm
Have you been able to add Fuji .raf support for X-trans sensors, yet?

Not yet unfortunately. X-trans support is definitely in my plans, but will probably appear during the next six months or so.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Drikus70 on December 31, 2015, 12:38:08 pm
I am having trouble to get a good result with the raw files of my Nikon D750.
Is it supported by Photoflow?
Has someone got good results with the D750 raw files?
The RAW developer layer doesn't render good colors and luminance.

Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on December 31, 2015, 12:42:54 pm
I am having trouble to get a good result with the raw files of my Nikon D750.
Is it supported by Photoflow?
Has someone got good results with the D750 raw files?
The RAW developer layer doesn't render good colors and luminance.

I will look into the issue. Would you be able to share a sample RAW file + a Jpeg with the expected output?
Also, which OS and photoflow version are you using?

Thanks!
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Drikus70 on January 01, 2016, 05:06:11 am
Thank you for the quick reply.
I am using MAC OS-X Yosemite and Photoflow 0.2.5.
I have sent you a message with a link to a RAW file, a jpeg and a screenshot.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on January 01, 2016, 03:50:50 pm
Thank you for the quick reply.
I am using MAC OS-X Yosemite and Photoflow 0.2.5.
I have sent you a message with a link to a RAW file, a jpeg and a screenshot.

My experimental version (the development code in preparation for next release) opens your files correctly.
If you are interested, I can let you have a dmg with the development version... I cannot guarantee that everything is perfectly stable, but you will be able to edit the D750 files.

By the way, since you have a Nikon camera I suggest you to have a look at this blog article: http://photoflowblog.blogspot.com/2014/09/tutorial-how-to-match-nikon-in-camera.html
It shows how to obtain the exactly the same color rendering of the in-camera Jpegs with photoflow.

Regards.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Drikus70 on January 01, 2016, 04:26:41 pm
My experimental version (the development code in preparation for next release) opens your files correctly.
If you are interested, I can let you have a dmg with the development version... I cannot guarantee that everything is perfectly stable, but you will be able to edit the D750 files.
I would like to experiment with the development version and don't mind if it isn't perfectly stable.
I really like the idea of using layers on raw files!

By the way, since you have a Nikon camera I suggest you to have a look at this blog article: http://photoflowblog.blogspot.com/2014/09/tutorial-how-to-match-nikon-in-camera.html
It shows how to obtain the exactly the same color rendering of the in-camera Jpegs with photoflow.
I was aware of the blog site and am working my way through the blog posts in order to get familiar with the software.
So trying to get the same color rendering is one of the first things on my 'photoflow to do list'.

Thank you.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on January 01, 2016, 04:58:45 pm
I would like to experiment with the development version and don't care if it isn't perfectly stable.
I really like the idea of using layers on raw files!

In that case, just give me a couple of days to prepare the "experimental" dmg installer... I'll get beck to you ass soon as it is ready.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: kers on January 02, 2016, 09:51:45 am
In that case, just give me a couple of days to prepare the "experimental" dmg installer... I'll get beck to you ass soon as it is ready.

hello dr Raw,
First of all: thank you for your effort making a Raw converter. Much appreciated!
I just tried version 2.05 on my mac and was not impressed.
I am on OSX mavericks and just tried a nef from a Nikon D810 camera.
It simply did not work.- about everything went wrong; the translation of the nef ( see the images)
; the saving of the tiff; nothing was saved and also the folder i made to save it in does not exist.
I am sure the windows version works better, but this is bad advertisement.
I wish you all the best making it better.
regards,

Pieter Kers




Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on January 02, 2016, 11:53:07 am
hello dr Raw,
First of all: thank you for your effort making a Raw converter. Much appreciated!
I just tried version 2.05 on my mac and was not impressed.
I am on OSX mavericks and just tried a nef from a Nikon D810 camera.
It simply did not work.- about everything went wrong; the translation of the nef ( see the images)
; the saving of the tiff; nothing was saved and also the folder i made to save it in does not exist.
I am sure the windows version works better, but this is bad advertisement.
I wish you all the best making it better.
regards,

Pieter Kers

Hello, and first of all thank you for trying photoflow and giving me your feedback.

I'm quite surprised by the wrong processing of your D810 image... I have tried with a file from Ken Rockwell (http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d810/sample-images/file-types/810_3438-UNCOMPRESSED-14-bit.NEF) and everything worked as expected: the colors were correct and a TIFF file was saved.

Would you agree to share with me the problematic NEF? Also, you might want to try this development DMG from today: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9zG9kk5AQMjRXRxaE4xa1AzbGc/view?usp=sharing

I'm sure we will find the origin of the issue and a proper solution!

regards.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on January 02, 2016, 12:10:35 pm
I am sure the windows version works better, but this is bad advertisement.
I wish you all the best making it better.

I forgot to mention that OSX is my main development and testing platform, therefore I exclude that versions for other OS would work better...

Regards.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Drikus70 on January 24, 2016, 03:58:29 pm
Working my way through the photoflow blog, I was testing Iain's Noise Reduction.
It is causing however a crash of the program.
DrRaw, let me know if / how I can send you a crash report.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on January 24, 2016, 04:23:07 pm
Working my way through the photoflow blog, I was testing Iain's Noise Reduction.
It is causing however a crash of the program.
DrRaw, let me know if / how I can send you a crash report.

The best place for reporting problems is the github issue tracker: https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow/issues
Otherwise, this thread is fine as well for me...

If you have the possibility, could you please run photoflow through the terminal and redirect the messages to a file?
Something like

    photoflow >& photoflow.log

and then put the log file somewhere accessible (google drive, filebin, a gist on github, etc...).

Finally, if the crash is reproducible then a short description of the steps to trigger it would be perfect.

Thanks!
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Drikus70 on January 25, 2016, 12:22:44 pm
Just sent you a PM with a link to the log file.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: przero on March 08, 2016, 05:25:54 pm
I cannot open it on my Mac Mini. I download the image, load it and move it to the Applications folder. when I click on it to open, the icon moves to the dock for a second, then disappears. Marketable does the same thing.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on March 21, 2016, 09:29:22 am
New version 0.2.6 of PhotoFlow is out!

Featuring chromatic aberrations corrections, highlights reconstruction, white balance adjustment with temperature/tint, custom monitor profile support, and a brand new GUI layout:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g43OHFFUOgo/Vu_cceeyEsI/AAAAAAAAA6A/aZCJ86PQUn4dOerEz5dfmMayONtHwJEnw/s1600/annotated-screenshot.png)

The program is available for Linux, OSX and Windows platforms.

More details on the dedicated blog: http://photoflowblog.blogspot.fr/2016/03/photoflow-version-026-released.html
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: mouse on March 21, 2016, 06:34:50 pm
When I follow the link and click on "Windows Installer" I am offered version 0.2.3.  Have you not yet finished a Windows version of 0.2.6?

By the way, navigating your website/blog is really a nightmare.  I imagine it discourages many from trying your software.  For example, on a previous journey thru your site, I did manage to download the windows installer for ver 0.2.5.  But damned if I can duplicate that feat.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: Lundberg02 on March 21, 2016, 08:10:08 pm
Hey, I'll bite. I never was able to figure out the last one, but maybe a new GUI will help.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on March 22, 2016, 04:50:56 am
When I follow the link and click on "Windows Installer" I am offered version 0.2.3.  Have you not yet finished a Windows version of 0.2.6?

By the way, navigating your website/blog is really a nightmare.  I imagine it discourages many from trying your software.  For example, on a previous journey thru your site, I did manage to download the windows installer for ver 0.2.5.  But damned if I can duplicate that feat.

There was definitely some typo in the webpage... now the links are correct. The windows installer link points to the latest version 0.2.6

Thanks for the heads up!

I agree that polishing/improving the web page is becoming an urgent issue. As I'm not a web developer, this takes for me much more time and energies than coding itself. But it definitely needs to be done.
Title: Re: PhotoFlow, a new open source RAW editor
Post by: DrRAW on March 22, 2016, 04:56:21 am
Hey, I'll bite. I never was able to figure out the last one, but maybe a new GUI will help.

From a very general point of view, the editing concept is similar to Photoshop: you build your edit step-by-step using layers, and for each layer you double-click on the layer name to open the corresponding controls.
Each layer can be merged with the previous ones using different blending modes, and each layer has its own opacity mask for local adjustments.

Masks are accessed by double-clicking on the small white rectangle on the right of the layer name, and are constructed via a stack of layers just like the main image.

Here is a collection of available video tutorials: https://plus.google.com/communities/108772952003062961576/stream/69429669-4a79-4834-b161-f55b3512e45c

Hope this helps!