Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: dgardn on January 11, 2015, 04:47:07 pm
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Hi all,
I've been using my i1Pro with various Macs for monitor calibration and custom printer profiles since 2003. Recently when I wanted to create a printer profile for my epson 3880, I realized I had lost that functionality at some point. Yes, it's been a while since I needed to create one.
I have a question in to xrite, but thought I'd get some feedback from the group. What upgrade solutions exist for me?
Can I upgrade current device to enable printer profiling?
Do I need a new device?
What solution will give me both display calibration and custom printer profiles?
intel Core i5 27" iMac
OS 10.10.1
i1Profiler (v1.5.6)
Thanks in advance,
David G
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I assume when you upgraded to i1Profiler you purchased the proper licensing. Your i1Pro should function as the dongle for the software which means the i1Pro must be physically connected for i1Profiler to work correctly. You didn't specify whether only the profiling module is not working or whether nothing is working.
First thing I would try is upgrading X-Rite Device Services (XRD) to the latest (this controls the actual instrument connection). While i1Profiler hasn't been updated since July 2014, XRD has had at least one update since then, depending on platform.
Verify that you have a connection to the i1Pro.....you can do this in either i1Profiler or something like the free X-Rite ColorPort utility. All you want to see is if the software sees the device and you can calibrate it. If that works, you likely have a licensing issue which you'll have to contact X-Rite about.
Terry
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Thanks Terry,
I assumed both still came together. I do have a connection to the i1 and I can calibrate. And the monitor calibration works as expected. Actually I can go through the entire printer profile creation process until it comes to creating it. Then I got a message about not being authorized. A closer look at the iProfiler software shows a little Demo demarcation next to printer icon. So I know it is a licensing issue, but wasn't sure if it is upgradable as is, or needed a hardware dongle, or if it's just a licensing upgrade I could do over the web.
I'll check to see about XRD, but I also just upgraded to iProfiler 1.5.6 yesterday. Maybe that is the first upgrade since July 14'.
David
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What version did you upgrade FROM? If you're upgrading to i1Profiler from any other version of X-Rite profiling software (ProfileMaker, Monaco, etc.) then you definitely need to purchase a license for the software. Shouldn't require a dongle as it can use your i1Pro as the dongle.
You'll need to either contact X-Rite or whoever you purchased the software from.
Terry
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So the word back from x-rite is that I need to upgrade to i1Publish for $800. Wow, just to get back what I had a few years ago. Not sure it's worth the expense for only the occasional need to create a custom profile. I can still print out the swatches and bring them to a friends to measure.
Thanks for the help.
David
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You should double-check that. the 'Publish' upgrade allows you to profile RGB & CMYK printers whereas the 'Photo' allows just RGB (and is all you need in most likelihood). I dont know if they actually have a Photo upgrade (vs. Publish) but they should since they sell the unit 3 different ways and the Publish version is $700 or so on otp of the $1500 they get for the Photo version.
Honestly, I'd just use ArgyllCMS as the profiling software and say 'ppfffffffff' to XRite and their silly prices for their crappy software.
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$800 is insane. For a fraction, you could buy a used, older system and run whatever older software you presumably had (As Terry asked, was that ProfileMaker Pro, MonacoPROFILER?).
I purchased a used MacBook Pro on eBay for a mere $160 couple years ago just to run older software like PMP and PROFILER when necessary. Today you can probably get an older machine for less and even download the older software and use that older instrument. The upgrade price is out of line.
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Uhuh. This is X-Rite. They've focused their major "developmental" effort at monopolizing the market so they can milk the customers. Meanwhile, the extent of technical innovation they've implemented in the area of printer profiling, from what I've observed with apples to apples comparison of printer profiles using their 10-year old (and through a service) new technologies has not really improved visibly over the past 10 years, despite their mania to obsolete perfectly workable products rather than keep them up-to-date. This way they can further milk customers for new stuff that adds very little value. So I think your advice of reaching back for the products that worked very well by keeping an old OS or two on hand is very sensible.
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There were improvements in i1P over both PMP and PROFILER but nothing hugely significant. Plus all the years now it's been out, we still don't have functionality we had in those older products. Plus their XRD 'technology' if I can be so kind to use that term, is a massive waste of system resources and engineering resource. I really wish I could say i1P was wroth an $800 upgrade, it isn't.
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There were improvements in i1P over both PMP and PROFILER but nothing hugely significant.
The question from that is; "Is there any more than can be gained ?"
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The question from that is; "Is there any more than can be gained ?"
For starters, ALL the legacy functionality we had in PMP that never made it into i1P (MeasureTool and ColorEditor functionality to name a few).
PMP and PROFILER had features we lost upgrading to i1P and X-rite has failed over the years to bring them back. Instead with have the rather useless and rather buggy XRD taking up their engineering resources.
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I was really asking if you think the profiles can get significantly better than those we get now.
We can still use PMP anyway, it hasn't gone away if you have the licence.
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I was really asking if you think the profiles can get significantly better than those we get now.
Sure they could. I have begged X-rite to consider the gray balance iteration like Bill Atkinson designed for years. Their display calibration is just OK. Could be much better. They could provide tools for tweaking white point visually as we have in SpectraView.
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We can still use PMP anyway, it hasn't gone away if you have the licence.
We (on Mac) can if we have an old system that can run Rosetta. Otherwise not.
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We (on Mac) can if we have an old system that can run Rosetta. Otherwise not.
No problems here on Windows :-)
Old hardware can be tricky if you try to use it on 64bit systems because X-Rite won't build 64bit drivers, but no issues with software at all.
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I keep Snow Leopard (10.6.8.) on a separate drive because I have the same issue with the X-Rite Pulse Elite software. Were it not for that I could up-grade that system as well; no other need for it because every other digital imaging vendor whose products I use have kept their stuff up-dated to the latest Mac OS. X-Rite can afford not to because they have no competition; and it would reduce up-grade business if they did - who would "up-grade" to products with less functionality. No MBA needed for that one.
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X-Rite can afford not to because they have no competition; and it would reduce up-grade business if they did - who would "up-grade" to products with less functionality.
Well there's ColorLogic which I hope will become serious competition for them. Some former (and very good) GMB/X-rite folks are there, making some very good products. Copra builds very good profiles, and ColorAnt is what X-rite should have produced from the old MeasureTool product but never got around to it. ColorLogic is aiming at the high end and yes, their products are not cheap. But at least they are focused and not trying to build silly iPad products and the like, not ignoring their high end customers. ColorLogic is updating their products and adding functionality on a regular basis (next version of ColorAnt has some rather useful new features). While not bug free (what product is?), Copra and ColorAnt are far less buggy than what comes out of X-rite these days.
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Good to know about these possibilities. Nothing like competition to keep the folks on their toes and the market healthy.
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X-rite still produces superb and affordable hardware. Software? Not as much. The i1Display-Pro (version 2) Colorimeter, the iSis, i1Pro-2 Spectrophotometer, Passport and even the i0 are great products.
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X-rite still produces superb and affordable hardware. Software? Not as much. The i1Display-Pro (version 2) Colorimeter, the iSis, i1Pro-2 Spectrophotometer, Passport and even the i0 are great products.
Fine as far it goes, but one counts on top-flight software and customer-friendly market behaviour to make it all work for us as a high-end package. It's not as if this stuff is cheap, and if they are destroying functionality they used to have in the name of who knows what, it says something about the management of this company, no?
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Fine as far it goes, but one counts on top-flight software and customer-friendly market behaviour to make it all work for us as a high-end package.
Yes, but you don't have to use X-rite's software with their hardware. It would be great IF the company paid as much attention to software as they do their hardware. I don't use their software for display calibration but rather SpectraView (MUCH better) with X-rite hardware.
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Fair enough - many of us are doing that for displays. For printer profiles do I assume correctly you use X-Rites'?
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Fair enough - many of us are doing that for displays. For printer profiles do I assume correctly you use X-Rites'?
Yes (and I've been using Copra too). Depending on the output device, one can do a 'better' job than the other even when fed the same spectral data.
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Good to know about these possibilities. Nothing like competition to keep the folks on their toes and the market healthy.
Ultimate competitor is already out there and it's free! ArgyllCMS which many of us use and find no need to support XRite other than the hardware side of the business.
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Ultimate competitor is already out there and it's free! ArgyllCMS which many of us use and find no need to support XRite other than the hardware side of the business.
Usable on a Mac and user-friendly interface?
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Yes
No
It would be great if someone was motivated enough to create a targenGUI ala dispcalGUI.
I think there are a lot of options (command-line) that essentially no one uses so it should be relatively easy
to come up w a set of options even for a command line newbie.
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It would be great if someone was motivated enough to create a targenGUI ala dispcalGUI.
I think there are a lot of options (command-line) that essentially no one uses so it should be relatively easy
to come up w a set of options even for a command line newbie.
Display calibration is a lot easier than printer calibration. It's easy enough to set up the commands in Notepad (Windows) and just past them into the command line and hit enter. I only have about six standardized things that I use to profile papers but there is always the option to use others as necessary. To answer Mark's earlier question, it is a challenge to get started but once you are familiar with things it's just as fast as using a GUI application.
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Looks like a very impressive package for open source software, but not compatible with OSX 10.9 and 10.10 according to Graeme's website. Looks to me as if it could become viable competition if someone took-up the challenge of creating a user-friendly GUI for it. For that they would likely need to charge a license fee to cover the cost of the sheer effort that would be involved, but could be worthwhile depending on how much for what. I think it's hard to mainstream command-line software in this era - just the thought of it, even though you may well be right about the factors involved with using it.
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I dont see any explicit reference to not running on 10.9/.10 but Graeme is on this board so maybe he'll comment
but I can certainly road-test it on my home MBA (10.10.1)
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I dont see any explicit reference to not running on 10.9/.10 but Graeme is on this board so maybe he'll comment
but I can certainly road-test it on my home MBA (10.10.1)
I don't think he has compiled it for the later MacOS. Of course on can always download the code and compile it for themselves (yet another hurdle to using the software).
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I don't think he has compiled it for the later MacOS. Of course on can always download the code and compile it for themselves (yet another hurdle to using the software).
Code? Compile? Serious? :-)
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I can only say that a very quick just-done test on my MBA indicates that the existing binaries seem to work just fine. Re-compiling for each version of the OS isn't required as long as Apple doesn't change something mysterious requiring a code fix.
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Looks like a very impressive package for open source software, but not compatible with OSX 10.9 and 10.10 according to Graeme's website.
I'm told it works on 10.9 and 10.10, but I am unable to verify this myself, since I don't have HW that will run those versions of OS X.
For that they would likely need to charge a license fee to cover the cost of the sheer effort that would be involved, but could be worthwhile depending on how much for what.
Yep. See above for just one of the consequences of not charging for it :-( :-(
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I have an old i1 Photo too. I have stopped using x-rite software with it. Ditto with my i1 Display.
For screen calibration and profiling I use DispcalGUI, which is great GUI over argyllcms.
For print profiling, I use argyllcms in command line. It is not that hard when following tutorials that are on the net.
I find I get much better results that way than with x-rite software.