Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Phil Indeblanc on January 06, 2015, 01:58:37 am
-
I tried to revive the MK ink to print....
I thought it was a print head. I changed to a new one, with no difference.
I am getting ZERO ink to the MK. After several cleaning cycles, I managed to see a spec or 2 in the thin lines on the Diagnostic page. Once at 80, then at 144, and now the others are gone, but a spec at 112. I know those mean little, but thought I'd mention in case there is hope by doing repeated cleaning cycles until my inks are out!?
-
On my 10+ cleanings,
I'm starting to see more marks in the lines in each bank, and very faint areas on the patch showing something. Maybe there is hope? :-)
-
Remove the MK head and pull some MK ink through the line with a syringe and a blunt needle. For one reason or another the ink channel may not be open enough.
If the ink hardware is in order then you may have to check whether the head carriage board or the ribbon cables have an issue (contacts, broken thread) though I would expect an error message then.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
-
I have a syringe, but I don't think I hav a need for it :-/
If I did have the needle with syringe, and if I understand you correctly, I would put syringe/needle down the hole the pin in the head goes down, but maybe a bit further and more suction?
I think I can manage to push a red straw from a can of compressed air into the syringe....That did fit(with help from blow-dryer heat)! Whats the best way to move the carraige over without telling it I want to replace a head?
-
Btw, after I saw the slight MK marks, they are no longer there after 3 more cleanings. Back to Zero!
So glad you are reading this! I think you and Mark maybe the only 2 that use this printer!(at least recently .
I am determined to stay up and get this fixed as I can't work on it tomorrow. I am hoping to only run a few prints...If I get it printing on the matte/RealLitho.
I searched for how to have the carraige move left, but nothing yet. I guess I could open the cover and as it slides out of the locked position I can switch the power off.
-
To get at that head tube connection you have to use the head replacement choice anyway. If the carriage is open and the head removed the carriage stays in that position to do the suction. If you want it there without opening the carriage you have to pull the power plug otherwise it runs back to the maintenance station after some minutes.
Work to do so I can not assist for several hours.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
-
Thanks.
I didn't realize the hole to where the head pin connects is smaller than the straw :-) So I can't do much anyway. I really appreciate it.
I opened the lid and the carraige moved left and I switched it off. I tried this before and upon powering back up it just returns to position.
-
Look at the lines and see if you can make a very large square basically the same color and run the printer to print out a large square on a two foot wide sheet. keep running to see if it will pull the ink. Run a head clean for that one printhead then repeat. Keep trying until it clears. Enough to print.
Of course, Ernst probably Has the correct perception regarding the line. Sometimes forcing ink by printing as I am suggesting works, if you get lucky.
By the way, you can always find a pump needle like the kind used on the bike repair pump that goes into a basketball to inflate it. Try hooking that up to a shop vac and do as Ernst suggests with the exception that you quickly pulse the vacuum on and off. You could try fabricating a length of fuel line the correct size to fit the basketball pump needle, and if the fuel line, perhaps bought at a hobby store or auto parts store, is clear, then you can always watch as any ink flows up into the tube.
-
Great suggestions. I will try the print method a few times, as I noticed a cleaning takes a couple to 3 ml of ink. Maybe a larger patch can force more? I guess the cleaning cycle is a bit weak for my clog.
If that doesn't work, I'll be back at it later afternoon with suction.
I greatly appreciate this. You guys are like the Perry Memorial Lighthouse!
-
Well, I did have a ball needle, and I inserted into the print head feed and sucked using the syringe, and I got a little ink to come out. I did it again, and got more. It may have been that I didn't have a vacuum seal, but I heard some air, but still was able to get ink enough to fill the tip and a bit inside the syringe. I'm sure I can pull more if I do this. Put the head back in, and did a Diag page...Blank!
Pulled up an image to print on some scrap litho matte, and sent it in gray-scale, and it printed without the darkest areas.
Is a solid black going to isolate and print MK on matte? (It did lay down a light pass of a gray under where the black would go.)
-
Take the MK / R printhead out, Phil. Go outside in the grass and shake the printhead. Vigorously.
Next step, (don't overdo) gently squeeze the sides of the printhead and flex the plastic. Eventually some ink should come out. Wipe dry, reinsert and see if you're getting anything. Print a large patch as discused then do a diagnostic chart. Keep printing, keep cleaning. Eventually it should begin to come back. Just begin printing large patches of grays and blacks. Use the stamp method to diagnose what is coming out of the printhead.
Keep printing. You will make progress and when you do keep at it with a vengeance.
-
Print this image, Phil, and see what is missing in the print:
http://www.normankoren.com/Stepchart_large_color2.jpg (http://www.normankoren.com/Stepchart_large_color2.jpg)
-
I sent that file (Yet to do the above steps)..
At a quick look, looks like all areas covered with some ink except for 0,0,0, and a bit of the last bar of gradation below the last 0 lowest right corner of the image/page.
I have a small shoot to do, and then I'm on the grass for some dancing. Hope the neighbors don't mind a 6'2" bear on the lawn doing the wiggles :-) !!
-
After you reinstall the printhead and a diagnostic image, scan it or shoot it and post it so we can see, Phil.
Keep the ink moving bro
-
are you sure you replaced the right printhead? 8)
if it's even a possibility that you replaced the wrong printhead that's what would happen. after a few cleanings you would see some lines on the mk.
-
Yes, I replaced the 1 cartridge with pair called Matte Black, and Chromatic Red.
I printed a 17" wide chart with a number of black bars across to give the nozzles "exercise", But I maybe approaching the printers technology too mechanically?
Anyway, it had lots of banding in the first 17" wide print, then a couple more I did and finally the 3rd was less banding. I thought the 4th would surely be either equal, or even less banding....
But NoooooOOhh, More banding across all solid black bars. I am still printing the 17" bars at this point. The MK it think was around 110ml when I started, now 99ml. Red also down to 89 from 106 I think from doing the cleaning cycles.
Hope this doesn't wear or damage the head when doing the cleanings. I think I did it about 12 times total.
-
No way it will damage the printhead - printing is what it's supposed to do. Could be you have a bad NEW printhead.
I suggest putting the old printhead back in to see if there is any difference. If there is not, then you've got issues with the tube. Maybe you need to draw more ink out and see what happens.
I'm hoping the old printhead will show something different - anything to show that the MK is printing.
Sent PM.
-
Well Mark, your step by step instructions and your ESP on what I'm doing has me printing a diagnostic page WITH black ink showing on the MK block!!
It still has some banding, but with lots of ink in the block and the test lines. I just repeating your clear instructions and hoping to get this printing flawlessly with matte stock.
Maybe I will need to replace that head eventually with an in date head sooner or later. But I'm here to do a few more tests before I call it a night.
Thank you! Thank you! Thanks you... (my first goal is print to that everglade image on the litho)....for the hand holding, and wisdom and experience you have not only with this printer, but in general the mechanics and their relation to software!
I'm not 100% there yet, but well on the way from the looks of it!
-
The indi HP Tech came out and did the fan replacement!
So I now have a quieter fan, dual BBearing and IP55 rated and hope I never have to deal with it.
I don't think I would have brought it up to him until you told me how important it may have been Mark.
You are THE MAN!
He had quoted me originally to do the belt with the fan and bushing. It took him an extra hour. He took the left side off and opened the PS can and popped the fan in. Lots of screws and some ribbons to deal with. He actually did have to cut the wires and reconnect with the stock plug, and shrink wrapped it. I took video of the process in case I need to do something one day(hope not).
Mark, I think I got the heads as good as they can get. When taking them out I noticed a couple were the original 2008 heads! So I'm surprised they are still firing the way they are. The main issue was the MK, so the rest with some imperfestions, they held up well. I have a couple more ordered and within a week I should have them all replaced. Then I'll make you a print of the Everglades :-)
I ran a small version of it, and it workout well. With the water and contrast in that image, I think it would be punchy and really sing on a gloss, but I also appreciate the color on timeless look on the slightly antiqued, almost aged newsprint paper with the Litho. I think the B&W are amazing on it.
So following your regime of shake, squeze, and alignment was helpful. But you are right, new in date heads would be the sanest way to go. The difference between the before and after were a hit and miss, and somewhat equal, but got the ink flowing and was able to print! I checked the prints with a 4x loupe.
One thing the tech mentioned is that the best way to revive a bad head in an emergency is to run a print with heavy use of the problem head.
The tubes are heated when being used, and that helps bring them to life....with a good dose of the "Mark regime".
-
>The tubes are heated when being used, and that helps bring them to life....with a good dose of the "Mark regime".<
Alright, so that is what the conductive paths on the tubes are doing, I had some strange ideas about their function like anti-static control.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
-
You have done a great job getting your printer back running, Phil. There were things the seller did not disclose, I think. But the main thing is that you're back up and running now.
Having "run the gauntlet" your now initiated into a realm where angels fear to tread, LOL. You've been a trooper and with your dogged determination and sticktuitevness not to mention resourcefullness, the printer should be good to go for quite some time now.
The method I proposed, to take all the heads out, and squeeze and vigorously shake each one, blot, replace, then run a printhead alignment, then a full head clean, then print out a diagnostic image, works up to a point in bringing it back to life. I never suspected the tubes were clogged, really, although it was questioned, of course. Knowing the age of the machine, I began to suspect the aged printheads, and the diagnostic image you sent, was telling. It's nice to be able to read and understand the chart. It's actually a powerfull tool.
Yes, the power supply fan can easily fail, when you consider that that sub $3.00 sleeve bearing fan runs 24/7 -365 and for years at that. If/when it does fail, it takes the power supply with it sometimes. It's cool you got a tech guy who would change the fan out - that's awesome.
The lesson, really, is that the printhead is the ink gateway to the paper.
The nozzles get caked with dry ink, and eventually become unclogged if you massage them enough. But in the end, just replacing the worst of the bunch, or, in fact, all, in a situation such as yours, considering an older printer having sat for who knows how long, in a dry climate, is no doubt advisable.
Hopefully you should be back in the saddle and good to go, now, with a few printhead changes as they arrive. Good going, Phil - congratulations - I hope the printer will give you years of print life.
-
One thing the tech mentioned is that the best way to revive a bad head in an emergency is to run a print with heavy use of the problem head.
The tubes are heated when being used, and that helps bring them to life....with a good dose of the "Mark regime".
>The tubes are heated when being used, and that helps bring them to life....with a good dose of the "Mark regime".<
Alright, so that is what the conductive paths on the tubes are doing, I had some strange ideas about their function like anti-static control.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
Ernst - I agree - very interesting the tech pointed this out. Seems counter-intuitive that heating the ink would help the flow, but after thinking about it, yes it does make sense considering the ink is aqueous. I don't doubt there might not be some thermosyphoning at work as well.
-
The MK is still firing, and yes with the new heads next week, I can be even more confident with the prints it pumps out.
Thanks for everything Mark! I don't know if I could have gotten out of this without your guidance. Your documentation of this printer is also something to praise.
Thank you!
Thank you too Ernst!
So the bottom line from all this...
If you're in a pinch and need the heads working, do all the stuff you need to in this thread.
If you have time to wait for shipping, and the $15-40per head you need, just replace it!
The interesting thing was that even if a printhead is sealed and new, depending on how old it is, how it was stored.... they can fail out of the brand new package!
Since I have not inspected them before putting them in, and not sure how they are made, but a couple things came to mind.
Either they have ink inside when they are shipped, and this ink inside can dry up over time/storage.
I know the heads get primed once installed, so maybe at this point the ink is pumped in to flush out the air?
....
Or over time the pump mechanism can just get stuck on its own and cannot prime properly.
There is a wonderful link Mark shared, and that explains quite a bit about these heads.
I also had done some reading about the heating of tubes before my service tech had mentioned it. I came across it last when reading about some software that monitors standby time of the printer, and it briefly compare the Peizo to the HP technology differences... It was reassuring to hear it from my service tech!
-
Thanks for everything Mark! I don't know if I could have gotten out of this without your guidance. Your documentation of this printer is also something to praise.
Thank you!
There is a wonderful link Mark shared, and that explains quite a bit about these heads.
You're welcome Phil - I'm glad you were able to find answers to your questions here on LULA.
Absolutely great people here, particularly Ernst. I've been in a bind several times and folks have been super generous helping out.
Here is the link you mentioned:
CLEANING HP Z3100-Z3200 PRINTHEADS (http://robogravure.com/HP_Z3100-Z3200_Cleaning_Print_Heads_Mark_Lindquist_Photography.htm)
-
So glad you are reading this! I think you and Mark maybe the only 2 that use this printer!(at least recently .
There are still a few of us using Zs. Maybe the reason you don't hear from us is because we don't have much to complain about :)
-
I agree, there are a lot of Z users still out there, still grinning ear to ear. Mine is close to 8 years old now, and still have not had occasion to replace the belt! While under warranty, HP did replace the power supply because of the defective fan. Having been a owner of 4 Epson 9000's before the Z, it was such a pleasure to have a machine that did not require much work to keep it running. I am just now starting to put in the 3rd set of print heads as needed unlike Canon owners usually replacing a 6 color head every year or so to the tune of $400.
Too bad HP has orphaned this very capable printer. I have pondered, what I would replace it with when the time comes. When the time comes to replace the belt, I will put in a new maintenance station too. I do periodically wipe out the plastic platform in the RH parking station area with the print head moved out of the way, as well as cleaning the felt pads on either end of the machine.
VIVA LA "Z"!
-
I agree, there are a lot of Z users still out there, still grinning ear to ear. Mine is close to 8 years old now, and still have not had occasion to replace the belt! While under warranty, HP did replace the power supply because of the defective fan. Having been a owner of 4 Epson 9000's before the Z, it was such a pleasure to have a machine that did not require much work to keep it running. I am just now starting to put in the 3rd set of print heads as needed unlike Canon owners usually replacing a 6 color head every year or so to the tune of $400.
Too bad HP has orphaned this very capable printer. I have pondered, what I would replace it with when the time comes. When the time comes to replace the belt, I will put in a new maintenance station too. I do periodically wipe out the plastic platform in the RH parking station area with the print head moved out of the way, as well as cleaning the felt pads on either end of the machine.
VIVA LA "Z"!
I couldn't agree with you more John, about the printer being orphaned. You are one of the very lucky ones to have had the belt stay for 8 years with no problems. May I ask when you Z was manufactured? Also, have you had it running continuously since day 1? Also, would you mind describing the environment the printer is in, such as, "photo studio, Northeast - relatively wet climate, air conditioned environment, temperature stable at 68-70 degrees", etc.? I don't mean to be nosey, I'm just interested in understanding if environmental conditions play a significant role in printer longevity.
As far as replacing this printer, if HP does not come out with another iteration, I am of a mind to continue repairing all three of ours. There is a growing group of Z Series users who do their own repairs and make modifications, even to the point of casting special carbon fibre parts as replacements for the cheaper parts that easily break. ( Custom Parts (http://robogravure.com/HPZ3200_Repair_Notes_Mark_Lindquist_Photography.htm#HP_Z_Series_(Z3200)_REAR_CARRIAGE_BUSHING_REPLACEMENT) ). Another printer that has all the specific advantages that the Z has, may not be coming in the future.
You are so right, "Viva La "Z" !!!
-Mark