Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: tim wolcott on January 01, 2015, 10:13:07 pm
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With all the smart people on this site. Does anyone know the real reason why we in America can't get a newer Defender 110 here in the states. Is there a way to get one imported. Someone here must know. I have been told some stories want to know if we can get one. I need one and want one. Thanks Tim
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Tim, the reason you can't get them in the US is because they're rubbish and everyone that buys a lemon one would take Landrover to court and they would go broke on lawyers.. ;)
Worst car I ever owned by a massive margin - very unreliable and very poorly built.
That said, they do look good.. ;)
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How about the guys who are taking the old ones totally redoing them from the frame up. Everything is new on them. I know that east coast rover and west coast rover does them that way. They sure do look good. But hard to imagine that they are junk from the factory. Thanks
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The Defender 110 is a wonderful vehicle and is plagued by the ghost of Lucas electrical that haven't been used for years. I drive a Discovery II and it is a very dependable vehicle. Any part that had been Lucas is Bosch now. The reason you can't buy a new 110 in North America is that Land Rover chose not to meet the North American specs for side impact, etc. You can legally import a 25 year old vehicle. A lot of North American Land Rover people will import a 25 yr old exMOD vehicle (ex Ministry of Defense) as they are low mile, well maintained for the most part. The Defender is like an erector set and was designed to be maintained in the field so you can take them apart and put them back together with simple tools. A right-hand drive exMod can easily be converted to left-hand drive for North America.
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As regards frame up restoration; you can buy brand new galvanized frames for virtually any Land Rover through Rovers North, Atlantic British, or British Pacific (which is now part of the Atlantic British company.) You can also buy almost any part you might need for a restoration through those companies.
I know all the Lucas jokes, The British drink warm beer because Lucas also made refrigerators. God said, "Let there be light" and Lucas said, "Not if I can help it." A three-position switch made by Lucas is Off, Dim, and Flicker.
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If you find it is too hard to get the 110, you might consider the Mercedes Geländewagen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_G-Class
They are very expensive new, but there are some used ones that are starting to get into a reasonable price range now. They are the German equivalent of the Defender. The Toyota 70 Series Land Cruisers are also good, but also do not conform to North American Spec and are illegal to import.
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I wish I could get all teary-eyed about Landrover Defenders but I can't.
In Australia they are freely available but I would not accept a give-away.
There are much better options for solid axle 4X4 vehicles that are more mechanically reliable, much more comfortable, and for what they offer much cheaper.
Can't completely list options for North America but either a Landcrusier 70 series or a Nissan Patrol (not the most recent Petrol versions though as they are too heavy with unnecessary accessories for offroading) are both exceptionally capable vehicles.
Tony Jay
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Never heard of the Landcruiser 70. But will check it out. Thanks Tim
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Neither the 70 Series Toyota or the Nissan Patrol can be legally imported in the U.S.
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I know all the Lucas jokes, The British drink warm beer because Lucas also made refrigerators. God said, "Let there be light" and Lucas said, "Not if I can help it." A three-position switch made by Lucas is Off, Dim, and Flicker.
My favourite - the only thing about Lucas that doesn't suck is their vacuums... ;D
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If I spend a lot of time in the rough, I'd go with the Jeep Sahara Rubicon
You can get them tricked out at 32 grand and a warranty, they have a longer wheelbase so your kidneys will survive the trip.
If you heart is really set on the defender, there are a few US custom shops that will build you one to order for $50,000 to $90,000.
IMO
BC
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The Defender 110 is a wonderful vehicle and is plagued by the ghost of Lucas electrical that haven't been used for years.
I wish the problems were just electrical stuff -
Mine had 65 warranty claims in 85,000 K's including a new gearbox, new clutch and a diff - it was towed back to a dealer dead several times.
My current cars between them, have had 4 warranty claims in the last 350,000 K's. ;)
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Neither the 70 Series Toyota or the Nissan Patrol can be legally imported in the U.S.
That is interesting and a pity if correct.
Tony Jay
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Actually performance is not so bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDhI-K0aAk8
Cheers
Jan
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… Does anyone know the real reason why we in America can't get a newer Defender 110 here in the states. … I need one and want one. …
Despite the manufacturer's efforts it's been a struggle to make the Defender meet safety and environmental rules in many countries.
The reason for needing a Defender might be that its good wheel articulation, low low range first gear, relatively light weight, and driving range as a stock vehicle means it is very capable in difficult terrain. The relatively primitive engineering is even a bonus in very remote locations where only simple tools are needed for many repairs.
They are slow to accelerate, and stop, noisy, and not particularly comfortable. Handling, highway safety, and ergonomics are not great.
The Toyotas mentioned above almost match a Defender's capability and lack some of the deficiencies.
Defenders are specialist 4WDs for enthusiasts or where walking-pace off road performance is the primary consideration. Production numbers are minuscule by world car standards. There are much better 4WDs for highway and urban driving that still perform well off road.
Like cameras, 4WDs perform well in some contexts at the expense of performance in others.
IMO
Best
Wollom
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With all the smart people on this site. Does anyone know the real reason why we in America can't get a newer Defender 110 here in the states. Is there a way to get one imported. Someone here must know. I have been told some stories want to know if we can get one. I need one and want one. Thanks Tim
Or for that matter, a Nissan Patrol which all my Aussie Outback friends say is the best vehicle for that sort of thing in the world.
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I used to have a Defender 110 Td5 for five years a decade ago.
It was a fantastic poseur car, snorkel, all terrain tires (tyres…), roof rack etc etc. I did like it, I am only 5'8", so I actually fit on the driver's seat when in the furthest back position. We did a 5 week camping trip to Iceland with 6 kids with it, functioned perfectly as it was new then. All boys in the kids soccer team wanted a ride instead of their mother's X5 or Mercedes ML. Our old great poodle always wants to get inside a Defender if he sees them anywhere.
Lousy quality, back door almost fell off after 3 weeks (misaligned hinges, pins broke), practically no heating (bit annoying at -25C here in Finland), oil leaks out, water leaks in, every other bolt was rustproof, every other not. So after 5 years and 170Mm later the love had worn a bit thin and I moved to Nissan Pathfinder (the buyer complained one week later that the gearbox had given up the ghost). 4 years ago switched to Toyota Land Cruiser J150 (a.k.a. Prado in some parts). By far the best car I have ever had, zero problems in 105 Mm, purrs like a kitten (3 liter diesel with automatic). According to the car inspection statistics it is the most reliable model of all cars at least here in these parts.
Defender is illegal in USA due to safety and emission reasons. Stiff frame, no airbags, no rollover strength, you name it. Yes, it looks iconic and functional, and off-road abilities are actually good. If it runs. They claim 75% of Land Rovers ever made are still running, that is because the poor buggers in poor 3:rd world countries can not afford anything else and those cars were sold before Toyota Land Cruiser was invented. In the West enthusiasts keep them going for emotional reasons, no expenses spared, not because they are reliable. In the Middle East and Asia where reliability really counts at least 80% new trucks are Toyotas, either Hiluxes or Land Cruisers, with an odd Tundra thrown in.
I know a new Toyota does not play the emotions like a Defender, but I have been there, done it, thank you. (If I had unlimited amount of money for several cars, then maybe... Banish the thought!)
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I guess depends on how heavy off roading you plan to do and how much you need to stay on regular roads.
The Lexus gx470 (or something like this) was the closest to a Toyota Land Cruiser, or you can get the FJ Cruiser which is more off road and less on road.
The Jeep Grand Cherokee with the off road package or the VW Touareg can be good compromises if you don't need heavy off roading.
If you really need heavy off road the Jeep Sahara can be a good option although somehow smaller.
I'm thinking reliability is not top if you consider that Defender in the first place; all of these should be more reliable, with the Japanese being above average.
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The only vehicle that meets the same requirements among all those listed above but is still legal in the U.S. is the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with locking differentials front and rear. Since the 70 Series Landcruiser can't be legally imported, all the rest are just overly inflated luxury vehicles. Look at the Rubicon. The 70 Series is an honest rugged utility vehicle, but it can't be imported for the same reasons the Defender can't be.
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I see the FJ is not made anymore, but here is a look at the Jeep Wrangler (you can go with Rubicon or similar) and the FJ.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/1405_2014_jeep_wrangler_unlimited_vs_2014_toyota_fj_cruiser/
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I too have entertained the thought of a Defender, in Canada we can import 15 year old cars. Memories of the 94 Range Rover I owned for a few years though quickly bring me back to reality. I am sure my mechanic has retired by now from the money he made keeping it on the road.
( Land Rover: Go anywhere, stop anytime ). If I do feel the need to abuse myself in a similar fashion again, I would look at the LR2. Surprisingly capable off road and I think more reliable than the older designs.
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The newer models, LR3 and LR4, have a much better V8 engine. The older 4.0 and 4.6 V8 engines were an old Buick designed engine that Land Rover licensed from GM. They are an aluminum block with sleeves and aluminum heads. They are prone to damage from overheating (as are all aluminum blocks) and you simply must pay attention to regular maintenance. I wouldn't be the least bit worried about an LR4. For me, an important factor is being able to sleep in the back. My Series II Discovery is just a bit short for me even with the back passenger seats removed. I've thought a lot about getting one of the Autohome roof top tents.
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Morning
It's worth remembering that the defender was designed for a purpose, one that it excelled at, i.e. farmers in the UK wanting something they could chuck crap in to and drive around fields without worrying about it, towing trailers and driving through mud and across rough terrain, it does all those things really well. The fact that they have become desirable to a wider demographic means that LR have responded by giving people what they want but it's impossible to get away from the fact that they were never designed to be more than a utility vehicle. They were built of cheap off the shelf parts so could be fixed easily and quickly by a farmer with a hammer and had lots of helpful design features like letting you know when it needed more oil by no longer leaking!
I worked for LR as an apprentice many years ago and have owned lots but I don't expect them to do anything more than what they were designed for, having relied on vehicles everywhere from Iraq to Afghanistan to Darfur, the only vehicle I would buy for reliability in dodgy conditions is a Land Cruiser 70 series but unavailable in a lot of places, if I want to drive on the road I'd have a Discovery if I wanted a LR or a Land Cruiser 100/200 series or something like that. If I want something to play around with, drive in stupid places, tinker with at the weekends then I'd buy an older LR and treat it as a toy, they are just different vehicles.
All good fun!
Mat
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It's also worth remembering that the LR Defender is at root a late 1940s design. It is a testament to how good they were in their day that they can still cut it well on UK farms etc., and the army still use them. However, it is also not surprising that more sophisticated designs have come along since from both LR and other manufacturers.
Here in the UK parts are widely available and mostly pretty cheap, and almost anyone who grew up on a farm can fix one. There is also a thriving community of users, and plenty of dealers and specialists. Nevertheless, they are mostly enthusiasts' vehicles now - but they really do have a certain quality to them that few other vehicles can match, so enthusiasm remains strong. Long may it do so!
Outside that community, and in larger countries with longer distances to travel, they really may not be the most practical option...
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Go big or go home. Get a Unimog.
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The land-rover defender is not made any-more and the production stopped this year in England (because many things are missing like ESP and so on). And, having owned two,one of them being a 5 cylinders, they are good 4x4 (I have them in Alps) but very very unreliable.
The best 4x4 to date is the Fiat Panda 4x4. You do not care to crash it.
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If you end up looking at Jeep Rubicons but want something a bit different take a look at what these guys are producing.
http://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicles/jk-wrangler ....even more hardcore... http://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicles/brute-double-cab
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OK, two more contenders for the King of the Hill:
Mercedes G 6x6 AMG: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mercedes-benz/g63-amg-6x6
The ultimate expedition trucks from Unicat: http://www.unicat.net
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Having had five Landies over the years, from a Series I to Discovery TDi , the conclusion is that if you want comfort, reliability, economy and value for money then buy something Japanese, but if you really want to get away from the tarmac and be fairly sure of getting back, then get yourself a Land Rover.
I'd have another now but the road tax is prohibitive.
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Go big or go home. Get a Unimog.
An older design than the Land Rover would you believe, and first made by a toy manufacturer in 1947 because the allies wouldn't let MB build 4wd vehicles until 1949. There is some suggestion that it was actually designed for the Wehrmacht during the war but never produced.
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Hello,
One thing I notice about the Defender when I photographed it in my studio was how cheap and flimsy the front plastic grill was made.
Cheers
Simon
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With all the smart people on this site. Does anyone know the real reason why we in America can't get a newer Defender 110 here in the states. Is there a way to get one imported. Someone here must know. I have been told some stories want to know if we can get one. I need one and want one. Thanks Tim
In Oct 2013, Land Rover announced that production would end on Dec 20, 2015, after a continuous run of 67 years, "due to legislative reasons"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Defender
A great shame and I think it was emmision problems that saw their sale to the states end a while back, but don't quote me on that. There is still a big Land Rover scene in the UK, however, and plenty of companies willing to sell you good secondhand models and most major ones will arrange export. This is one company that I had dealings with a few years back and they seemed honest enough -
http://www.neneoverland.co.uk/4x4neneinfo/aboutus.php
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If getting TO the destination is important, if reliability is important, if reasonably comfortable blacktop driving is important, and straight-from-the-factory awesome off-road performance is important, then a good choice would be the newer Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. Here's mine in one of those "unreachable" destinations:
For an internationally regarded forum for "Adventure and Overland Travel Enthusiasts" where the virtues, etc. of the LR 110 vs. all the rest are endlessly discussed: www.expeditionportal.com
Mike Coffey
Prescott
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To make this somewhat photographic related, I will say BUY Landrover vehicles. I own Tata Motors stock that is the owner of the brand and their profits help me fund my photographic habit!
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To make this somewhat photographic related, I will say BUY Landrover vehicles. I own Tata Motors stock that is the owner of the brand and their profits help me fund my photographic habit!
As good a reason as any! :)
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Hello azmike, I'm on expo. An excellent site and forum.
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the conclusion is that if you want comfort, reliability, economy and value for money then buy something Japanese, but if you really want to get away from the tarmac and be fairly sure of getting back, then get yourself a Land Rover.
There's no question the Defender is good off road and I drove mine many places you would be afraid to walk, but after having to walk out of a remote fishing location one day and then hitch hike to the nearest phone reception to arrange (another) tow truck back to the city ended all my off road trips.
Then the thing was pointless.
I think reliability should be a huge concern to anyone going off the beaten track unless you only do short drives in phone range. ;)
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I was never left stranded but the maintenance was fairly intense, a problem would make itself known before failure normally, and I know of many beat up old examples that refused to die. However, I should point out all of mine were built before the ability to function relied exclusively on electronics.
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I see the FJ is not made anymore...
At Eureka Dunes in Death Valley I had an interesting conversation with a park ranger who was driving a massive Dodge pickup.
"So this is the vehicle of choice for Death Valley roads?", I said.
"Nope. This is what the government supplies us with. My personal off road vehicle is an FJ Cruiser".
One of the major tech guys on my Sprinter forum also does Land Rovers.
He says: "I put two kids through medical school repairing Land Rovers and Mercedes. If I'd chosen to fix Toyotas, we'd all be starving."
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The newer models, LR3 and LR4, have a much better V8 engine. The older 4.0 and 4.6 V8 engines were an old Buick designed engine that Land Rover licensed from GM. They are an aluminum block with sleeves and aluminum heads. They are prone to damage from overheating (as are all aluminum blocks) and you simply must pay attention to regular maintenance. I wouldn't be the least bit worried about an LR4. For me, an important factor is being able to sleep in the back. My Series II Discovery is just a bit short for me even with the back passenger seats removed. I've thought a lot about getting one of the Autohome roof top tents.
You are right about aluminum blocks, while my wife was driving the Range Rover it developed a coolant leak, she kept driving with predictable results, ie. new engine required. I think the new Land Rovers are more reliable, but I am sworn off gas guzzlers and don't understand why they don't import their diesel engines to North America. VW, Audi, Mercedes, BMW and even Porsche now offer excellent diesel engines. VW sells more diesel than gas in Canada, I believe that over 90% of Touaregs are diesel.
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Overheating prevention is a known issue with Land Rover owners. Most people run an Ultra Gauge off of the OBDII port to keep better track of vital signs than what is provided by the instrument cluster. The Discovery II temperature gauge was programed by engineers at BMW and does little to indicate real operating temperatures. It's just something that you have to keep up with. Another known issue is the non-serviceable u-joints on the front propshaft. They were designed so owners wouldn't have to worry about them and they were to be replaced at intervals by the dealer. Most owners don't give them another thought and then they fail. My front propshaft has been rebuilt with serviceable u-joints that are greased at every oil change.
This has turned out to be a strange thread for a photography site.
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It is quite difficult to justify the Diesel proposition now.
I got a Diesel engine in the summer but with the gas prices down the differential between gas and diesel is huge.
In the summer the diesel was roughly 10 cents more expensive than premium, now it's 30-40% more! Now that's kind of ridiculous. Not to mention the regular gas is even cheaper.
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Another vote for the AEV rubicon. Mine is a 2012 jk350. Excuse the iphone quality Instagram images, but here's a pic.
http://instagram.com/p/xF-xOyhf51/
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This has turned out to be a strange thread for a photography site.
I think it's great.
It's the first thread in a long time that hasn't mentioned DR, Nikon D800, DXO, a chart and a science test.
It's actually about using equipment in the real world.
IMO
BC
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I think it's great.
It's the first thread in a long time that hasn't mentioned DR, Nikon D800, DXO, a chart and a science test.
It's actually about using equipment in the real world.
IMO
BC
Now you've just gone and spoiled it!
;D
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The newer models, LR3 and LR4, have a much better V8 engine. The older 4.0 and 4.6 V8 engines were an old Buick designed engine that Land Rover licensed from GM. They are an aluminum block with sleeves and aluminum heads. They are prone to damage from overheating (as are all aluminum blocks) and you simply must pay attention to regular maintenance. I wouldn't be the least bit worried about an LR4. For me, an important factor is being able to sleep in the back. My Series II Discovery is just a bit short for me even with the back passenger seats removed. I've thought a lot about getting one of the Autohome roof top tents.
The original 3.5 litre V8 that eventually got bored/stroked out to 4.6l (even 5l by TVR) was a real trooper of an engine, almost as old as the Land Rover itself. Designed by Buick in the fifties, Rover adopted it in the sixties and since it has powered a multitude of vehicles from the 1967 Rover P5 to the 2004 Discovery via the Defender and even a Leyland truck. There are not many motors with that sort of legacy and it must be considered one of the great engines of automotive history, despite its perceived faults in a much more modern world.
More here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8_engine
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IMHO the Defender 90 was the jewel of the line... not the 110
The First Gen Porsche Cayenne was a massively competent off-roader as well. Porsche, in their typical Germanic interpretation decide that if you wanted an ATV then they would make the BEST one. it's what they do.
These guys never play at design.
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I think it's great.
It's the first thread in a long time that hasn't mentioned DR, Nikon D800, DXO, a chart and a science test.
It's actually about using equipment in the real world.
IMO
BC
It does honor that regular Lula brand loyalty/bashing though. Toyota vs. Land Rover.
I think I mentioned one important feature of a nature photography vehicle is being able to sleep in it. My Series II Discovery is a little short for comfortable camping in the back, but I've done it. I have removed the rear passenger seats (the third row seats have been in the garage since I bought the vehicle) and can just fit. I put bags and cases on the roof rack while I sleep in the back. I don't like to drive with a lot of weight up there, but it is a good storage place and I've shot from there on occasion. I like the security of sleeping inside, especially in bear country, and like to be able to wake up at the location where I want to shoot in the morning. I replaced the back door inside panel with a stainless steel panel I bought from Columbia Overland. It is cut as an exact replacement for the panel. I've added a drop down panel to it that serves as a small table for cooking and brewing tea. The Land Rover Discovery II has been probably the most cost effective vehicle I've owned. It does not get very good gas mileage, but when I factor what I paid for it used, the cost of gasoline, and maintenance, it is way cheaper than anything else I've owned. I do keep up with maintenance and do the work myself rather than depending on a dealer or an indie shop. Another of the Land Rover jokes; Land Rover: Proudly turning owners into mechanic for 65 years. ;D
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Hi All
Well Im another LULAist with a Land Rover 110 V8 i bought it in 91 it has 210K miles on it and is part of the family now you can stand on it to take pictures you it gets your kit and you safely home and is a bit different .
Not for everyone but it suits me .
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Here's an item I put together for a classic tractor column I do.
http://www.inkplusimages.com/Landrover.pdf
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how cool!
classic tractors
Torque is so intoxicating.
Here's an item I put together for a classic tractor column I do.
http://www.inkplusimages.com/Landrover.pdf
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The First Gen Porsche Cayenne was a massively competent off-roader as well. Porsche, in their typical Germanic interpretation decide that if you wanted an ATV then they would make the BEST one. it's what they do.
Yep, not bad for a Volkswagen, but never seen one anywhere near off-road.. ;D
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how cool!
classic tractors
Torque is so intoxicating.
Despite the many concerns over a Land Rovers reliability that forty year old model is quite fixable with all parts being readily available off the shelf at reasonable cost. I'm not sure that the same will apply to a Porsche in 2055. But anyway, glad you are into classic machines as well, they are the most visited pages on my site - http://www.inkplusimages.com/zenstock/Heritage-Agriculture./ and I must get some more up there.
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Porsche Cayenne also sits a the top of the reliability charts at least in Germany. I suppose it would be quite capable off-roader (Merc ML with off-road package is also, but reliability is so-so, being USA made) if owners were so inclined. Nobody buys it for off-roading, but if that has really be taken into account in the design, it explains some of the reliability. Reliability charts in Europe seem to be led by mostly Japanese, with Toyota/Lexus on top of those, then Porsche and Skoda. Here in Finland top three positions for 3 years and older cars, in 8 age groups were 11 Toyotas, 11 other Japanese and 2 non-Japanese…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2179067/Land-Rover-revealed-UKs-reliable-car-71-cent-years-old-break-year.html
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2186477/Top-reliable-reliable-cars.html
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Just a thought on the question of reliability. If a 4wd drive is purchased for its pose value rather than any serious intent to go off road isn't likely to prove more reliable than one which is bought primarily to go off road and suffer a harder life as a consequence?
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Just a thought on the question of reliability. If a 4wd drive is purchased for its pose value rather than any serious intent to go off road isn't likely to prove more reliable than one which is bought primarily to go off road and suffer a harder life as a consequence?
Could well be, but do people actually drive Discovery 3 and 4 mostly off-road in Britain, as they are the worst in reliability? I would think more Land Cruisers are taken off-road (top of the charts) than much more plush Discoveries.
All large (specially diesel) cars suffer in these reliability comparisons, as they are driven on the average much more per year, typically twice as much or more. Especially Mercedes E-series are hurt by this in Finland, as they are the most common taxicabs, driven a lot per annum.
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If you are serious about this question, defendersource.com is your best bet for answers. Just be aware the natives are restless and cannibalistic of newbies. Figure out what you really need/want in a vehicle. If it can only be satisfied by D110, go and get one. If you just like the feel and concept of one, consider an older Range Rover. They kind of feel like a D90 with leather seats (same suspension, similar weight, 10" longer wheelbase). Before you commit to buying/building/importing a 110, spend some time traveling in one. They are unparalleled in many respects, but they are not without their issues and they are criminally overpriced in the US. Of course, I would take one in a heartbeat if I could afford one, but my focus would be on making it comfortable, not on making it capable. They are plenty capable with minimal modifications, but the reality is that most travels are more pavement than dirt. It is quite possible that the gas trucks are more comfortable than the diesel trucks.
Colorado David's comment about fuel consumption on the gas engines is also worth noting. They burn a lot of fuel. This means you are paying out the nose to drive a Land Rover, but also (again, this is a gas comment, not diesel) if you are venturing into the backcountry, you are using a lot of payload and cargo space to carry extra fuel.
I don't know if you have given any consideration to a LR3 or LR4, but they are very nice vehicles and IMO worthy of the Land Rover name. On a recent trip shooting for an off road RV company, we opted to take the LR3 over the D1 or RRC because there would be a lot of miles on pavement or high speed (for a Land Rover) dirt roads. I had some reservations about this decision initially, but it very quickly proved to be the right choice (of course part of the decision was that we could shoot out the back of the LR3, but not the D1).
Make no mistake, if I had the ability to buy and send a D110 (NAS or ROW) to ECR, I would do it in a heartbeat, but since that is not in the cards, I will stay with the RRC. If you are just looking for a beat up old truck, take a look at the Tithonus 110. They can be had for $25,000 or less (shipped), but IMO they are more of a starting point than an end point.
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A friends husband here in Toronto Canada had a rebuilt tricked out Defender 110 built and imported this past summer. He was very happy with it. So happy she sometimes thinks he loves it more than her. It was not cheap as he sold his almost new Porsche Cayenne to get the Defender.
Here are the guys he got it through. They seem to do quite a few exports to the USA. Very nice stuff.
http://us3.campaign-archive2.com/?u=14b7574a480b3ac96da3565bd&id=a4aab6e420
http://www.arkonik.com/
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It was not cheap as he sold his almost new Porsche Cayenne to get the Defender.
This really shows how the free markets work, or in this case, not so free. But everything has its price and value: when I sold my well kept 6 years old 110 (with nice add-ons) I got about 1/3 of what the cheapest Cayenne cost here...
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Could well be, but do people actually drive Discovery 3 and 4 mostly off-road in Britain, as they are the worst in reliability? I would think more Land Cruisers are taken off-road (top of the charts) than much more plush Discoveries.
All large (specially diesel) cars suffer in these reliability comparisons, as they are driven on the average much more per year, typically twice as much or more. Especially Mercedes E-series are hurt by this in Finland, as they are the most common taxicabs, driven a lot per annum.
Living in Ireland for the last eight years I may be a little out of touch with the UK scene but it is quite true that a lot of 4WD's purchased would hardly have encountered a cow pat, let alone suffer the terrors of a muddy puddle. The posh side of London was a well known haunt of such vehicles, earning them the generic title of Chelsea Tractors. They were also a $%*&**! nuisance during the rush hour as the MILFS transported their precious ones two hundred yards down the road to school in them, they were, in short, lifestyle statements and stick on transfers looking like mud splashes were even available just to give the impression of a wild existence outside of the M25.
On the other hand, out in the country, many were used to take Penelope and her pony to the local gymkhana and some, If I may suggest that such are extant, were purchased by better off farmers and land owners who would indeed find them useful for checking out the peasants and shooting the pheasants.
Land Rovers, being of British origin and manufacture, obviously had a strong appeal amongst the patriotic, a factor that Land Rover never openly exploited but hardly discouraged either. Magazines devoted to the make were never shy of flying the flag and there were constant references to being 'made in Britain' amongst those advertising their modifications and attachments within the pages. All this stacked up in the company's favour, as you can imagine, and there was quite an interesting period of about 12-15 years ago when off roading moved from being a pastime of the rednecks to gaining some sort of respectability amongst the monied, who were keen to express their wealth in new and different ways. This progression up market was reflected in the ballooning sales of 4wd's of every make.
So I guess you are right, the majority of all car style 4wd's were unlikely to suffer the rigours of being away from terra firma to any great extent, but my feeling is that of those that did then Land Rovers would make up the larger proportion, in the UK at least. In Ireland (Eire), Land Rovers suffered the unfortunate association with the army and police forces in the north and so never gained great popularity down here where all 4WD's, of any type, are simply referred to as Jeeps.
While on the subject of reliability there is the curious case of engine failure in a certain age of Discovery ascribed to the the drive gear on the oil pump falling off. This was well known and discussed at the time, but you try and find any reference to it on the web now.
Anybody looking to compare prices this is the de facto site for car sales in Ireland -
http://cars.donedeal.ie/find/cars/for-sale/Ireland/?filters[make]=Land+Rover&source=all
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All large (specially diesel) cars suffer in these reliability comparisons, as they are driven on the average much more per year, typically twice as much or more. Especially Mercedes E-series are hurt by this in Finland, as they are the most common taxicabs, driven a lot per annum.
Until recently, I lived in a fairly small town and my understanding from the local mechanical crowd is that most of the problems with new diesel 4x4's came down to poor fuel quality.
There was a lot of problems with water in the fuel.
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Until recently, I lived in a fairly small town and my understanding from the local mechanical crowd is that most of the problems with new diesel 4x4's came down to poor fuel quality.
There was a lot of problems with water in the fuel.
A problem made worse by the inclusion of ethanol, which is Hygroscopic. Similar tales abound in this part of the world.
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On the very narrow and steep alpine roads I see many Defender 90, Toyota Land Cruiser, Suzuky Jimny (or the older Samurai, "Suzukino") and still the mythical Fiat Panda 4X4 first model. When the going gets really tough the queen is the Panda 4x4. Nothing goes higher even on the snow, without chains, even on muletracks. She (the Panda is female) is usually the last, lone, parked car (car?) along an alpine road.
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On the very narrow and steep alpine roads I see many Defender 90, Toyota Land Cruiser, Suzuky Jimny (or the older Samurai, "Suzukino") and still the mythical Fiat Panda 4X4 first model. When the going gets really tough the queen is the Panda 4x4. Nothing goes higher even on the snow, without chains, even on muletracks. It’s usually the last, lone, parked car (car?) along an alpine road.
Seldom seen these days, Haflingers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haflinger_%28vehicle%29) were quite popular about 20 years ago. This extremely narrow but spartan 4x4 was/is great in the Alps. Its larger brother, the Pinzgauer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinzgauer_High-Mobility_All-Terrain_Vehicle) is also a very nice and competent vehicle for narrow trails.
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Seldom seen these days, Haflingers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haflinger_%28vehicle%29) were quite popular about 20 years ago. This extremely narrow but spartan 4x4 was/is great in the Alps. Its larger brother, the Pinzgauer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinzgauer_High-Mobility_All-Terrain_Vehicle) is also a very nice and competent vehicle for narrow trails.
As another alternative these had a fearsome reputation for off road capability and weren't that bad mechanically wise, although the bodywork would hardly stay together. No idea what they were like on snow mind -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva
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. . . "If I'd chosen to fix Toyotas, we'd all be starving."
Yup. I love my Tundra.
(http://www.blessthisstuff.com/imagens/stuff/toyota-tundra-devolro-4.jpg)
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Looks like something Darth Vader would drive.. 8)
Yup. I love my Tundra.
(http://www.blessthisstuff.com/imagens/stuff/toyota-tundra-devolro-4.jpg)
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Another very capable off-roader with low profile tires…
????
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As another alternative these had a fearsome reputation for off road capability and weren't that bad mechanically wise, although the bodywork would hardly stay together. No idea what they were like on snow mind -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva
My brother in-law had one… Awful mileage, engine lacked power but the off-road capabilities were top-notch and they were dirt cheap compared to Pinzgauers, Haflingers or Jeeps/Land Rovers. Price was more like those of Suzukis or Pandas (1st gen).
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16 years ago I saw a brand new Defender 90 body at the local off-road shop. I asked what happened to rest of the car. The story was that a newly rich Russian customer had driven a Lada Niva from Russia to Helsinki, and the shop had fitted the Niva body on a new V8 Defender 90 frame and engine. That was still the time when it was not wise to flash your wealth over there. Now things are different as we know.
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Another very capable off-roader with low profile tires… ????
Increase of 7” lift in suspension and 37″ tires. 8)
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As the Merc G class was mentioned a while ago I thought I'd post a link to this story. A slightly funky presentation but a great read with some good photography. Can't ask for much more.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/2014/newsspec_8703/index.html
I'm planning to do some cross/round country trips this year (and maybe every year) and plan to get a used Sequoia (4x4) with 1/2 the rear seats removed to allow me to sleep in the back. I want to be able to do dirt roads and snow/ice. No rock crawling though.
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Increase of 7” lift in suspension and 37″ tires. 8)
I think it's more a question of lowering the tyre pressure to provide extra grip, with a tall side wall you can do this as there is more flex available At low pressure a tyre takes on some of the characteristics of a caterpillar track. Not so sure that the effect is possible with low profile tyres.
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Just an aside about airing down tires for traction. Ralph Bagnold, the founder of the Long Range Desert Group during WWII in North Africa and the inventor of the Bagnold sun compass, developed the procedure of airing down to get more traction. He was doing it with two wheel drive Ford Model T light cars for desert travel in the Sahara in the 1920s and 30s.
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Increase of 7” lift in suspension and 37″ tires. 8)
Big.
But low profile anyway...
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If you're in the New England area, Cityside Garage in Holliston, MA rebuilds and services various Land Rovers (including Defender 110s). I think they sell them through Copley Motors.
Links:
http://www.citysidegarage.com
http://www.copleymotorcars.com/?makes=land-rover
I have had my 1998 Range Rover serviced by Cityside. They are pretty good.
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There's always the Dakar to see how it should be done -
http://www.redbull.com/en/motorsports/offroad/stories/1331696267097/dakar-rally-2015-stage-6-race-report
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But then you would just buy the Mini All4 :)
Edit : Or a Toyota (Tacoma I think in the US) ...
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Just an aside about airing down tires for traction. Ralph Bagnold, the founder of the Long Range Desert Group during WWII in North Africa and the inventor of the Bagnold sun compass, developed the procedure of airing down to get more traction. He was doing it with two wheel drive Ford Model T light cars for desert travel in the Sahara in the 1920s and 30s.
Makes a big difference to traction on some of the trails around here and also saves a lot of tire damage - not a bad thing when you've paid $400 a corner.. ;D
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If you prefer more rubber, there's always the 1976 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 406 Doppelkabine 4x4:
(http://www.blessthisstuff.com/imagens/stuff/mercedes-benz-unimog-406-doppelkabine-3.jpg)
Too top heavy? How 'bout the Ariel Nomad:
(http://www.blessthisstuff.com/imagens/stuff/ariel-nomad-2.jpg)
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If you prefer more rubber, there's always the 1976 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 406 Doppelkabine 4x4:
(http://www.blessthisstuff.com/imagens/stuff/mercedes-benz-unimog-406-doppelkabine-3.jpg)
Awesome things - I want one, though I don't think it would fit in the garage....
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Just remembered one expedition with a slight connection to this thread. Two 6x6 Ural trucks, 6 weeks on the Taklamakan desert and Tibetan plateau. We drove from Bishkek over the Torugart pass to Kashgar, then via Hotan and Queimo to Kun Lun mountains and Ulugh Muztahg. And back. Were stuck for 9 days in the quicksands at one point at 4300m altitude, with one or both trucks broken, nearest town about 600km away. Base camp was at about 5200m. Nice trip!
https://picasaweb.google.com/109958612223411682295/UlughMuztaghIIFirstAscentExpedition2003
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Just remembered one expedition with a slight connection to this thread. Two 6x6 Ural trucks, 6 weeks on the Taklamakan desert and Tibetan plane. We drove from Bishkek over the Torugart pass to Kashgar, then via Hotan and Queimo to Kun Lun mountains and Ulugh Muztahg. And back. Were stuck to 6 days in the quicksands at one point at 4300m altitude, with one or both trucks broken, nearest town about 600km away. Base camp was at about 5200m. Nice trip!
https://picasaweb.google.com/109958612223411682295/UlughMuztaghIIFirstAscentExpedition2003
Now, that's what I call an expedition!
That vast central Euro/Asian landmass that we know so little about is just ripe for exploration, that must have been one hell of a trip. Especially like the anvil of pure jade and it certainly puts into context all the tricked up 4x4's that might look good on the boulevard but would instantly fall down much beyond a stoney track.
I was in Finland myself last year, for a few days, and I must admit most of the cars I saw were just normal everyday saloons rather than the endless stream of pick ups you'd see in Canada. I did though, visit a farm out near Jamsa where they operated the locally built Valtra tractors both on the land and in the forest. There was some challenging terrain although this was taken nearer the farmstead. Lovely part of the world and very genuine people.
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Just remembered one expedition with a slight connection to this thread. Two 6x6 Ural trucks, 6 weeks on the Taklamakan desert and Tibetan plateau. We drove from Bishkek over the Torugart pass to Kashgar, then via Hotan and Queimo to Kun Lun mountains and Ulugh Muztahg. And back. Were stuck for 9 days in the quicksands at one point at 4300m altitude, with one or both trucks broken, nearest town about 600km away. Base camp was at about 5200m. Nice trip!
A fantastic journey!
However, what happened here? Too tight of corner, or was the driver not paying attention?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ADm2uPISxBk/Tzav3brmw_I/AAAAAAAABI0/4pLKCqWQYQE/s720/Muztagh_2003_27.jpg)
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How about Bowler? They seem to be able to produce effective machinery!
http://www.bowlermotorsport.com/the-cars/
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These look awsome
http://www.aev-conversions.com
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These look awsome
http://www.aev-conversions.com
Their Brute Double Cab has a wheelbase of 139 inches or over 3.5 metres. Yikes! A long wheel base can certainly help traction but come to bumpy ground and suddenly you have a see saw.
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An Australian take on 4x4 campers -
http://traveltrucks.com.au (http://traveltrucks.com.au)
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To add something related to photography here ;-)
Good idea! Notice the sweet light and sharp focus on this "concept" Benz. :D
(http://www.gadgetreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/mercedes-benz-ener-g-force-off-road-concept_100409488_m.jpg)
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Good idea! Notice the sweet light and sharp focus on this "concept" Benz. :D
(http://www.gadgetreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/mercedes-benz-ener-g-force-off-road-concept_100409488_m.jpg)
....and low profile tyres! ;D
Edit, Anyway, that looks more CGI than photograph.
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An Australian take on 4x4 campers -
http://http://www.traveltrucks.com.au/expedition-camper (http://http://www.traveltrucks.com.au/expedition-camper)
The link doesn't appear to be working.
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One too many http:// in the address.
Try this instead: http://www.traveltrucks.com.au/expedition-camper
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. . . Anyway, that looks more CGI than photograph.
What?! Too perfect?? Just look at those tire tracks!
(http://www.gadgetreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/mercedes-benz-ener-g-force-off-road-concept_100409491_m.jpg)
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A fantastic journey!
However, what happened here? Too tight of corner, or was the driver not paying attention?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ADm2uPISxBk/Tzav3brmw_I/AAAAAAAABI0/4pLKCqWQYQE/s720/Muztagh_2003_27.jpg)
Maybe both. The road from Taklamakan 1800m to Tula pastures 3200m curved so tightly in some places that the trucks had to back up once or twice. Starting uphill with 14 people inside, 300 m drops all around and the truck jumping off the gear (slipping back 2 meters) was probably the scariest thing I have ever encountered. And I had to take that road four times. It was also eroded away in couple of places so bad that the outside wheels had to go over a void. There was one rickety bridge also, covered with straw, over fairly swift river (all others were forded) which we had to cross, only to see a sign on the other side saying 2 tn…. Not to mention driving across this mountain range with a broken front axle, wheels pointing out about 15 degrees. One tire had lost almost all rubber when we reached Queimo to have the truck welded together, and the parts we had brought from the lame truck up on the plateau at 4300m.
It was also a quite surprise when the full auxiliary tank fell off when going at full speed on a sand flat. It threw the back to the truck up so violently that 2 members hit their heads in the roof and hurt their necks.
I shot video of this with one other member and it was made into a documentary "Into the Forgotten Valley" and show in National Geographic Adventure Channel. I also made my own version for the Finnish TV. We actually were the first people ever to reach the west side of the mountain.
http://ctfilms.com/into-the-forgotten-valley/
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Maybe both. The road from Taklamakan 1800m to Tula pastures 3200m curved so tightly in some places that the trucks had to back up once or twice. Starting uphill with 14 people inside, 300 m drops all around and the truck jumping off the gear (slipping back 2 meters) was probably the scariest thing I have ever encountered. And I had to take that road four times. It was also eroded away in couple of places so bad that the outside wheels had to go over a void. There was one rickety bridge also, covered with straw, over fairly swift river (all others were forded) which we had to cross, only to see a sign on the other side saying 2 tn…. Not to mention driving across this mountain range with a broken front axle, wheels pointing out about 15 degrees. One tire had lost almost all rubber when we reached Queimo to have the truck welded together, and the parts we had brought from the lame truck up on the plateau at 4300m.
It was also a quite surprise when the full auxiliary tank fell off when going at full speed on a sand flat. It threw the back to the truck up so violently that 2 members hit their heads in the roof and hurt their necks.
I shot video of this with one other member and it was made into a documentary "Into the Forgotten Valley" and show in National Geographic Adventure Channel. I also made my own version for the Finnish TV. We actually were the first people ever to reach the west side of the mountain.
http://ctfilms.com/into-the-forgotten-valley/
Although I marvel at the achievement and am perhaps just a little envious, I do wonder whether you'd be better off with several smaller vehicles next time. They are less likely to get stuck, easier to recover if they do, and offer flexibility and safety in numbers.
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Maybe both. The road from Taklamakan 1800m to Tula pastures 3200m curved so tightly in some places that the trucks had to back up once or twice. Starting uphill with 14 people inside, 300 m drops all around and the truck jumping off the gear (slipping back 2 meters) was probably the scariest thing I have ever encountered. And I had to take that road four times. It was also eroded away in couple of places so bad that the outside wheels had to go over a void. There was one rickety bridge also, covered with straw, over fairly swift river (all others were forded) which we had to cross, only to see a sign on the other side saying 2 tn…. Not to mention driving across this mountain range with a broken front axle, wheels pointing out about 15 degrees. One tire had lost almost all rubber when we reached Queimo to have the truck welded together, and the parts we had brought from the lame truck up on the plateau at 4300m.
It was also a quite surprise when the full auxiliary tank fell off when going at full speed on a sand flat. It threw the back to the truck up so violently that 2 members hit their heads in the roof and hurt their necks.
Nice update. Thanks! What make & model is the truck? Where was it built?
Edit: Asked and answered.
Their secret weapons, in this battle between man and the elements, are two giant six-wheel drive trucks, converted from ex-Russian army rocket launchers.
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Wow a whole thread on Landy!
Thought Id share my Defender 90. Taken with P30+ Let me know if you have any questions on them!
(http://i.imgur.com/mc9co3g.jpg)
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For gear heads only 8)
http://www.dudeiwantthat.com/autos/exotic/kiravan-terrestrial-spaceship.asp
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Tim, was your original question answered to your satisfaction?
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Wow a whole thread on Landy!
Thought Id share my Defender 90. Taken with P30+ Let me know if you have any questions on them!
(http://i.imgur.com/mc9co3g.jpg)
Proper tin wheels on her as well.
Good man!
Wish I had a picture of my old Series One to share. It's the same old story, they are selling for ten times what I sold it for it all those years ago.
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I love the look of these refurbished Land Rovers- so rustic and inviting. It also appeals so much because it gives me the sense of getting out there- into the wild, exploring, etc. I will probably be in the market for an off-road vehicle, or a mini-RV, but when I consider it carefully, the fact is that I would only be using it at most about 10 times in a year. I wonder if there is a way to rent a high-end off road vehicle for sort excursions.
P.S.- I really liked the Thor conversion of the Mercedes Sprinter van- seems to have all the comforts.
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Rentals depend on where you are. I rented a fully equipped Defender 110 in Capetown and drove to Namibia.
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A late 70's Land Cruiser FJ40 is only way to go. Insanely reliable, easy to find parts and repair. You can't go wrong. Just get it from the south where it hasn't been exposed to snow and salt (i.e. Chicago (https://plus.google.com/113001012143441341895/posts)).
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I love the look of Defenders, but prefer to get home via the same vehicle I left in, so I bought a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited. Great offroad and more comfortable on highway than the Series 3 and Defenders I've driven. With locking front and rear diffs and a true low range it goes anywhere I'm dumb enough to ask it. And the four door Unlimited versions have enough room for camping and photo gear for a two week trip.
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It is quite difficult to justify the Diesel proposition now.
I got a Diesel engine in the summer but with the gas prices down the differential between gas and diesel is huge.
In the summer the diesel was roughly 10 cents more expensive than premium, now it's 30-40% more! Now that's kind of ridiculous. Not to mention the regular gas is even cheaper.
Low gas(petrol) prices are temporary. The real argument against Diesel is that it is significantly dirtier than gas....even with all the new "clean" Diesel technologies.
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Low gas(petrol) prices are temporary. The real argument against Diesel is that it is significantly dirtier than gas....even with all the new "clean" Diesel technologies.
This argument against Diesel only holds if you are on the tarmac.
Offroad the massive increase in fuel consumption with Petrol-driven 4X4's far outweighs the apparent greater emissions with Diesel.
If you are not going offroad then one doesn't need a 4X4...
Just saying
Tony Jay
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The real argument against Diesel is that it is significantly dirtier than gas....even with all the new "clean" Diesel technologies.
The fuel itself? There are a number for filters in a vehicles fuel system to filter out contaminants. Or do you mean the exhaust? The comtaminants differ between gasoline and diesel. Modern heavy diesel vehicles use SCR (urea) systems to cleanse exhaust. Many more private vehicles are also being equipped with SCR systems as well.
I hate to use the term "gas" since there's also CNG (Compressed Natural Gas). I've been working in automotive fuel systems for some 20 years and there's often misunderstandings between Europeans and Americans (engineers) when discussing "gas". I prefer the English term petrol - less ambiguous.
I've been driving diesel cars for the past 15 years and enjoy the high mileage my cars achieve - I drove my former Alfa Romeo (5 cyclinder diesel) over 280,000km before my dealer made me an offer I couldn't pass up. My current Alfa Romeo diesel (similar engine) has run over 350,000km without any problems. I'm sold on diesel engine torque, fuel efficiency and longevity. Sad, that changing taxes are constantly changing fuel prices, road tax, insurance premiums, etc. (at least here in Germany).
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Europe has a huge proportion of diesel cars vs the U.S. where they are still niche. Paradoxically they might gain more traction with the introduction of diesel light trucks from Chevy and Dodge.
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Europe has a huge proportion of diesel cars vs the U.S. where they are still niche.
Yeah, very true. That's mostly due to taxing of gasoline and diesel. Some 15 years ago European governments thought diesel to be the best fuel available and lowered taxes, srtificially making diesel fuel cheaper than gasoline. In recent years the price difference is no longer than great. It's all part of silly (and high) taxation in Europe! French government wants to ban diesel engines by 2020. It's a bit like nuclear power - depending who you ask, it's either god's gift to humanity or a dangerous power supply with waste which can't be disposed of. (My view is the latter.)
But fuel efficiency of diesel engines is far better than gasoline - especially off road but also during regular (road) driving. Especially in city driving! While in the Army (70s), our Motor Sergeant always wanted a diesel engine for the jeeps - it never happened (mogas only). Today's diesels can be very quiet and comfortable to drive.
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I have a Grand Cherokee diesel, gets ~ 24 mpg on average, the main reason for buying the diesel. And it's a very heavy car, a lighter one could get even better.
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Europe has a huge proportion of diesel cars vs the U.S. where they are still niche. Paradoxically they might gain more traction with the introduction of diesel light trucks from Chevy and Dodge.
Diesel will never catch in the U.S. for 2 simple reasons: lack of fuel availability versus gasoline and cost of diesel fuel (which I assume is being taxed out the ying yang since it is about 25% more expensive than gasoline per gallon).
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lack of fuel availability versus gasoline
This is not such a big problem, even less with the increased autonomy of diesel cars. Most gas stations in my area have diesel.
"Lack of availability" is much more real with electric cars.
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Our family is practically diesel only, stronger longer lasting engines, better milage, better low rpm torque.
There is plenty of diesel available in the states, but maybe only at truck stops sometimes.
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Our family is practically diesel only, stronger longer lasting engines, better milage, better low rpm torque.
There is plenty of diesel available in the states, but maybe only at truck stops sometimes.
I have had a VW golf diesel wagon for over 2 years. It has been a great vehicle in every respect, summer fuel economy about 5.2l/100km, a bit higher consumption in winter. VW sells a lot of diesels here in Canada, the Touareg has a take rate of over 90% I believe.
Modern diesel cars are very clean, however the emission control systems now employed add a lot to the complexity and potential expense of maintaining them long term. It remains to be seen whether they will prove to be the good investments long term that their predecessors have been.
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I have had a VW golf diesel wagon for over 2 years. It has been a great vehicle in every respect, summer fuel economy about 5.2l/100km, a bit higher consumption in winter. VW sells a lot of diesels here in Canada, the Touareg has a take rate of over 90% I believe.
Modern diesel cars are very clean, however the emission control systems now employed add a lot to the complexity and potential expense of maintaining them long term. It remains to be seen whether they will prove to be the good investments long term that their predecessors have been.
We looked at buying one of those (Jetta wagon) new last month. When I calculated the costs per mile though, the 5 cylinder gasoline engine version was actually much cheaper over our expected life cycle.
But, as always, the assumptions are where the calculations can be misled. I had to use current fuel prices, and nobody knows where those will go in the future. As of today, gasoline is $1.56 per gallon here, and diesel is $2.69. The better gas mileage of the diesel can't offset that disparity for us. Also, I found a lot of evidence that mechanics who are well-trained in VW diesel tech can keep those cars going reliably. But, if you are unfortunate to live where no such expertise exists, you can get into expensive trouble. So I didn't figure in maintenance costs at all.
In the end, we decided to just keep paying for repairs on our 14 year old BMW wagon.
To get back to the topic at hand, I love the look of classic LRs, but never actually got a chance to drive one. My dad has always had one form or another of Jeep since 1970. Right now, he has, I believe, a '47 Willys. Great off road. But, the controls are so heavy, and the brakes so primitive, that I don't really enjoy mixing it up with modern traffic. I had an early Jeep Liberty for a long time. It seemed to strike a good balance between on and off road abilities. The car magazines tended to hate it because it wasn't car-like enough, and the off-road crowd hated it because they though it was too "cute." Worked very well for me though, especially in deep snow. I would not have hesitated to take it way into back country. Yet it was still comfortable to drive in regular road traffic, any time of the year.
Jeep actually built a diesel Liberty, for one year only. If one could find a nice used for a good price...
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Our family is practically diesel only, stronger longer lasting engines, better milage, better low rpm torque.
There is plenty of diesel available in the states, but maybe only at truck stops sometimes.
That was how it was in the UK up to the 70's, if you wanted diesel then you had to to the truck pumps, it all changed in about 3 years, as quick as that, suddenly every garage had a diesel pump.
Not so sure that the characteristics are so noticeable between petrol and diesel engines nowadays though. Electronic engine management has pretty much seen to it that you'd hardly know one from the other on your less exotic cars. Having said that, power density was always greater with petrol, and still at the extremes, so it still rules for sports cars and bikes.
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Yeah, very true. That's mostly due to taxing of gasoline and diesel. Some 15 years ago European governments thought diesel to be the best fuel available and lowered taxes, srtificially making diesel fuel cheaper than gasoline. In recent years the price difference is no longer than great. It's all part of silly (and high) taxation in Europe! French government wants to ban diesel engines by 2020. It's a bit like nuclear power - depending who you ask, it's either god's gift to humanity or a dangerous power supply with waste which can't be disposed of. (My view is the latter.)
But fuel efficiency of diesel engines is far better than gasoline - especially off road but also during regular (road) driving. Especially in city driving! While in the Army (70s), our Motor Sergeant always wanted a diesel engine for the jeeps - it never happened (mogas only). Today's diesels can be very quiet and comfortable to drive.
That's the first I've heard of France wanting to do that, does it apply to the whole of the country or just city centres? I assume you mean cars rather than diesel engines generally, as just about everything else (other than bikes) runs on diesel.
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That's the first I've heard of France wanting to do that, does it apply to the whole of the country or just city centres? I assume you mean cars rather than diesel engines generally, as just about everything else (other than bikes) runs on diesel.
I just reread those recent articles; let me clarify. It's the current mayor of Paris who wants to ban diesel cars from the city. That should go hand-in-hand with other changes such as turning the inner city into a large pedestrian area with only limited access to electric-powered vehicles.
Don't know if she will see her plans blossom into reality. In my view, a great amount of diesel vehicles simply need to be properly maintained and serviced for air quality to immediately improve. I see so many diesel and vehicles (trucks, vans, cabs) which leave a smoke screen behind them when accelerating. Ever increasing prices are making the proper servicing of vehicles a luxury. I plan to live car-free from June 2020, when I retire, only renting one for vacations. And then I can stroll through the great pedestrian areas of downtown Paris! :D
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We looked at buying one of those (Jetta wagon) new last month. When I calculated the costs per mile though, the 5 cylinder gasoline engine version was actually much cheaper over our expected life cycle.
But, as always, the assumptions are where the calculations can be misled. I had to use current fuel prices, and nobody knows where those will go in the future. As of today, gasoline is $1.56 per gallon here, and diesel is $2.69. The better gas mileage of the diesel can't offset that disparity for us. Also, I found a lot of evidence that mechanics who are well-trained in VW diesel tech can keep those cars going reliably. But, if you are unfortunate to live where no such expertise exists, you can get into expensive trouble. So I didn't figure in maintenance costs at all.
In the end, we decided to just keep paying for repairs on our 14 year old BMW wagon.
To get back to the topic at hand, I love the look of classic LRs, but never actually got a chance to drive one. My dad has always had one form or another of Jeep since 1970. Right now, he has, I believe, a '47 Willys. Great off road. But, the controls are so heavy, and the brakes so primitive, that I don't really enjoy mixing it up with modern traffic. I had an early Jeep Liberty for a long time. It seemed to strike a good balance between on and off road abilities. The car magazines tended to hate it because it wasn't car-like enough, and the off-road crowd hated it because they though it was too "cute." Worked very well for me though, especially in deep snow. I would not have hesitated to take it way into back country. Yet it was still comfortable to drive in regular road traffic, any time of the year.
Jeep actually built a diesel Liberty, for one year only. If one could find a nice used for a good price...
Fuel prices are a big factor, the price spread in the USA is exceptionally large. In Canada diesel is more in winter, less in summer, so it averages the same as regular unleaded, maybe a touch less.
I had a Jeep Liberty diesel for 3 years. It was a very good vehicle, not too large. I drove it out to NFLD from Ontario twice.
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I think that right now not enough diesel is produced in US so in the winter it's competing with the heating fuel which makes it more expensive. I still think it's artificially too much of a difference though. In the summer the diesel was ~ 10c/gall more than premium gas.
Right now with my Jeep diesel it would be probably as cheap or cheaper to drive the V8; I did get the diesel mostly for eco reasons but it is somehow frustrating.
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Another reason to consider diesel other than simple fuel economy is range. Sometimes the fact that you have greater range is more important than the money.
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Another reason to consider diesel other than simple fuel economy is range. Sometimes the fact that you have greater range is more important than the money.
Very true, and while diesel fuel consumption is less then gasoline in regular driving, it is very much less at idle or light throttle. If stuck in a snowbank in a remote location, a full tank would probably keep the engine idling and producing cabin heat for days. There is also a safety factor, diesel is much more difficult to ignite than gasoline if spilled in a fuel leak or accident.
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Go big or go home. Get a Unimog.
:)
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A late 70's Land Cruiser FJ40 is only way to go. Insanely reliable, easy to find parts and repair. You can't go wrong. Just get it from the south where it hasn't been exposed to snow and salt.
Beautiful,
I my country (Costa Rica) they were very popular. Nowadays many people have them as collection. About 5 years ago I was traveling on the country side of Costa Rica, and saw a 101 license number, so yes the car number 101 on the country and still going strong in the countryside. Later on I saw the 98 still going on.
I have never seen this color on my country. Do it has most of the original painting or that color is a custom work ?
Best regards,
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Well I own one and regardless of whatever any one else who doesn't says and doesn't know ... I'm pleased to own and above all use one for its purpose. I live in a place where you can.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128911965@N08/15853454557/
Note the lens used
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The Lexus gx470 (or something like this) was the closest to a Toyota Land Cruiser
In point of fact, the GX470 is a gussied-up 4th generation 4Runner, which is extremely reliable and has very good stock off-road capability, and tons of after-market support.
The current 5th generation 4Runner Trail Edition is highly capable as well:
http://expeditionportal.com/2013-overland-suv-of-the-year-runner-up-2013-toyota-4runner-trail-edition/
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As an African spending lots of time in the bush I can tell you that the Defender is an awful car.
If you want a basic Land Rover get a used Classic Range Rover. It will still need TLC but earlier versions are electronically simple and the mechanical TLC it needs is very basic and anyone can do it. The base is similar to the Defender but it's much lighter weight which seems to make a huge difference to the mechanical reliability.
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I know all the Lucas jokes, The British drink warm beer because Lucas also made refrigerators. God said, "Let there be light" and Lucas said, "Not if I can help it." A three-position switch made by Lucas is Off, Dim, and Flicker.
Indeed...and 'Lucas, Prince of Darkness'.
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Of course one should never let one's opinion be distorted by reality.
I tend to base my opinion on my experience rather than prejudice.
I could be wrong however.