Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: cerett on December 29, 2014, 06:19:09 pm
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I just purchased a very reasonable humidifier to run in the same room I keep my 4900. The humidity range is from 30-60% What would you recommend as an ideal setting?
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Around 40. But you still need to run prints every several days.
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http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Pro/SeriesStylusPro4900/Specs.do?BV_UseBVCookie=yes
Environmental Characteristics
Temperature
Operating 50° to 95°F (10° to 35°C)
Storage -4° to 104°F (-20° to 40°C)
Relative Humidity 20 to 80%
Operating 40 to 50%
Recommended storage 5 to 85% (no condensation)
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Yes, that's the official story, but I reported on my experience using this printer for over three years now, which indicates that the safe place to be is 40% or higher.
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I ran my 7900 and 9900 for 3 years with no humidity control and was clearing clogs three or four times per week.
With my humidifier set at 45% clogs have not been eliminated but I am down to a couple a month.
It is that important.
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I ran my 7900 and 9900 for 3 years with no humidity control and was clearing clogs three or four times per week.
With my humidifier set at 45% clogs have not been eliminated but I am down to a couple a month.
It is that important.
My results are similar. Averaged 3 times a month before (so not as bad as Dan), now only every month or two.
And this is not an Epson problem but a pigment inkjet problem, with Canon and HP you are just not as aware. Maintaining humidity will extend the life of the heads substantially if your printer is in a dry environment, so good for anyone who is trying to keep costs down.
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I ran my 7900 and 9900 for 3 years with no humidity control and was clearing clogs three or four times per week.
With my humidifier set at 45% clogs have not been eliminated but I am down to a couple a month.
It is that important.
It's not only important for the printer, the papers don't dry out as much and will be more flexible. We try to have a humidity as high as 60 % in the printer room.
Best regards
Stefan
http://www.korta.nu/profiler
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what kind of humidifier should I look for?
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I just started (literally, just yesterday) using this one after a number of recommendations....... (was on sale during the summer :) )
The unit & my print area is in open 'loft' area so I'm going to assume it will not be able to really keep up but it did bump the % from 30 to 38% (unit on medium) although the unit had shut off (run out of water) in about 18 hours. Not enough runtime data to reliably say much more
http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-QuietCare-Humidifier-Technology-HCM-6009/dp/B000G0LDRI/ref=sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1420119952&sr=8-3-spell&keywords=quietair+honeywell
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Thanks for the link Howard; this is for a cool mist humidifier. There are also warm mist humidifiers on the market. I wonder whether there is any particular advantage of the one over the other?
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The heating system in my house was keeping indoor humidity at around 20%, so last week I had my trusted HVAC guy install a humidifier directly to the heating system. It cost me $750 installed, and now humidity in my house is between 35-45%. The unit connects directly to the house's hot water supply and drains into the utility sink in the basement, so no need to fill tanks every day. It's an evaporative humidifier, so there's no dust either. Folks may want to consider this option since it's not that much more expensive than room humidifiers and is hassle-free.
I didn't really do it for my printer (I have an Epson 4900) but I am looking forward to seeing what positive effect it has on clogging.
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That only works if you have forced-air heating. Not applicable to homes heated by hotwater/radiator systems.
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That only works if you have forced-air heating. Not applicable to homes heated by hotwater/radiator systems.
Of course there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Also, this humidifier kicks in only when the heat comes on, so it doesn't help in the summer. Then again, I live in the Washington D.C. area so lack of humidity is not a problem in the summer here. For my climate and house, I think this setup will work very well.
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Of course there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Also, this humidifier kicks in only when the heat comes on, so it doesn't help in the summer. Then again, I live in the Washington D.C. area so lack of humidity is not a problem in the summer here. For my climate and house, I think this setup will work very well.
Indeed, having lived there I have "memories" of Washington DC summers. We had A/C which dries the air of course, but at the time I lived there the Epson 2000P had just been put on the market and I don't recall experiencing clogging issues with that printer. (As a side note, while we complain about clogging, when I compare the gamut of that printer with what I get from my 4900 today, we lose some and win some - clogs or no clogs, the technology has come a long, long way!).
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I purchased a room humidifier for my 4900 last winter. I also use a tray of water in the printer during dry conditions. I use water soaked sponges to increase surface area and avoid any possible bulk water spills. I know this tactic has been dismissed by some; however, I've used a hygrometer to measure humidity inside and outside the printer and find an increase of about 15% inside. I sometimes also apply some AIS cleaning solution to the docking station; it's slow to evaporate and helps keep the nozzles moist. If I do all this, I have little trouble with clogs. When I get inattentive or lazy, I have clogs and just dealt with a major one.
Tom
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I think an evaporative humidifier is the best to use. Cool mist humidifiers will put a white fine dust in the air unless you use RO water or distilled water. Dust can also create nozzle problems.
I use this essick air model (http://www.amazon.com/Essick-Air-H12-300HB-Evaporative-Humidifier/dp/B00B5U8GL4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420138432&sr=8-1&keywords=Essick++12300hb), which has been modified with a auto fill float mechanism which is connected to an RO water supply. I add some bacteriostat every few days and clean it out well every few months when I change the wick.
Most of the time the fan at its lowest speed is enough to keep the humidity constant. I have in floor heat so the humidity doesn't get forced out in the winter.
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I purchased a room humidifier for my 4900 last winter. I also use a tray of water in the printer during dry conditions. I use water soaked sponges to increase surface area and avoid any possible bulk water spills. I know this tactic has been dismissed by some; however, I've used a hygrometer to measure humidity inside and outside the printer and find an increase of about 15% inside. I sometimes also apply some AIS cleaning solution to the docking station; it's slow to evaporate and helps keep the nozzles moist. If I do all this, I have little trouble with clogs. When I get inattentive or lazy, I have clogs and just dealt with a major one.
Tom
Hi Tom,
To get into the discussion here I'll add that I use a Bionaire Tower type humidifier in close proximity to the 9900 as well as a 10Litre bucket of water just behind the business end of the printer. I add a small amount of bleach to the water to hopefully prevent algae buildup and I change the water every two weeks. Until I started the humidifier waltz I was experiencing nozzle gaps on a regular basis(especially in winter months), but I am now a true believer and a registered member of the Inkjet Printer Humidification Cult. Membership is free of course, but the benefits are numerous. That said, my initial reason for this reply was in regards to the efficacy of hygrometers. I have three of them within a 6 sq ft area and they all exhibit quite different readings. Of course the one that's attached to the humidifier shows the highest reading, for obvious reasons, such as proximity. The other two are approximately 12 points different from the humidifier hygrometer and from each other as well. Has anyone found a hygrometer that can actually be trusted to produce a standard accurate reading? I sometimes just average them all and go from there, usually about 42-45%. No idea how accurate that is, but for the most part it seems to be working.
An addition: I'm open 6 days a week, and before I leave Saturday I remove the two filters/wicks from the humidifier and soak them in water with a few drops of dish detergent. When I get back in Monday morning I rinse the detergent out of the filters and place them back in the unit. That procedure seems to be working very well to preserve the life of the filters/wicks. Probably useless info, but perhaps useful for someone. Just a thought.
HAPPY NEW YEAR and a 45% winter to all, especially those in the GTA! :) :) :)
Gary
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Gary:
I have two hygrometers and their readings are quite close. No idea of the absolute accuracy, but I'm confident that a higher reading means higher humidity, so I'm convinced that keeping water in the printer raises the humidity higher than ambient.
I would suggest you try the AIS fluid applied to the docking station as well, it appears to work for me.
Good printing,
Tom
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Gary:
I have two hygrometers and their readings are quite close. No idea of the absolute accuracy, but I'm confident that a higher reading means higher humidity, so I'm convinced that keeping water in the printer raises the humidity higher than ambient.
I would suggest you try the AIS fluid applied to the docking station as well, it appears to work for me.
Good printing,
Tom
Tom, how long have you been using AIS fluid, and what confidence do you have about it not causing cumulative long-term damage to the printhead? I think the water in the sponges can only be helpful, but the fluid I wonder about.
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Tom, how long have you been using AIS fluid, and what confidence do you have about it not causing cumulative long-term damage to the printhead? I think the water in the sponges can only be helpful, but the fluid I wonder about.
Hi Mark:
Well, I do too and I would prefer not to use it. I started using AIS solution about a year ago when I had an intractable clog. I have no idea of the long term effects of using the fluid on the printer. That said, a non-functioning printer is useless and, as much as it's contrary to my disposition, I realize that printers are expendables. The use of the AIS fluids may reduce the theoretical life of the printer, but in my case, it seems to have increased the useful life. I wouldn't use it if the other techniques had been effective (remember puddle soak for the 4800?).
Tom
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Hi Mark:
Well, I do too and I would prefer not to use it. I started using AIS solution about a year ago when I had an intractable clog. I have no idea of the long term effects of using the fluid on the printer. That said, a non-functioning printer is useless and, as much as it's contrary to my disposition, I realize that printers are expendables. The use of the AIS fluids may reduce the theoretical life of the printer, but in my case, it seems to have increased the useful life. I wouldn't use it if the other techniques had been effective (remember puddle soak for the 4800?).
Tom
The 4800? And wallet soak........but it was a considerable improvement over the 4000.The 3800 was by far the least troublesome performer of the whole lot - in fact it was stellar, and I wonder to this day why that kind of performance couldn't have been ported into the x900 models. There must be a technical reason, but no one has convincingly explained it.I can only surmise it has to do with the size of the nozzles, but that's speculation.
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.......................The 3800 was by far the least troublesome performer of the whole lot - in fact it was stellar, and I wonder to this day why that kind of performance couldn't have been ported into the x900 models. There must be a technical reason, but no one has convincingly explained it.I can only surmise it has to do with the size of the nozzles, but that's speculation.
We don't know, but I suspect Epson does and the next series of printers may be clog free (I hope).
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I don't know either, but I suspect there have been technical trade-offs between finesse of droplets/detail & gamut on the one hand, versus the chemistry of the inks and the (in)convenience of performance in respect of clogs on the other, so save for some technological breakthrough that eliminates one or more of those trade-offs, they are into - well trading-off, and to date they have opted for highest quality, counting on users to do volume printing, which minimizes maintenance problems. In short, they've optimized for continuous usage. In the next generation of printers for those of us who don't print every day, I too hope for less baby-sitting, but not at the expense of the ultimate in quality we get from these machines.
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I'll have a 9890. Can anyone describe in detail how to use "AIS fluid applied to the docking station"
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Looking at some Honeywells. Is there advantage of a Cool Mist vs Wick Evaporative humidifier? Also regarding square footage, As long as the humidifier is kept close to the printer should I worry about if the humidifier is rated for 400 or 2000 square feet?
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I'll have a 9890. Can anyone describe in detail how to use "AIS fluid applied to the docking station"
See here:
http://www.americaninkjetsystems2.com/support/how_to_use_symphonic_cleaning_fluids.html
I would call them, they were very helpful on the phone.
BTW, see what Wayne posted, I too would not use a misting humidifier unless you use only distilled or deionized water. Use of tap water will eventually leave a fine deposit of the dissolved minerals everywhere in the room.
Tom
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I do know that there is no single magic bullet to keep your Epson wide format running, though I do know that there are several recommended practices such as monitoring humidity (40-60%), printing frequently, agitating cartridges, replace wiper annually, keep the print area clean, etc.
And it also is apparent to me that the issue of "clogging" is consequently not caused by the same issue or even a combination of issues. And sometimes what we think are clogs, really aren't clogs at all, but simply ink not getting to the head, aka as ink drop outs.
I wanted to add another possible alternative solution, prior to resorting to an INITFILL (which may work, if that's the solution to your issue). One of my printers is a converted 9890 to K7 piezography. Through the conversion process and printing K7, you get used to seeing the innards of your computer and what may or may not work. Although the printers have a "pressurized" ink cartridge system, I don't think that always solves the issue of "air" in the cartridge which may stop ink from effectively reaching the print head. Hence, the "clog." Jon Cone includes in his piezography conversion K7 kit, these modified syringes that are used to suck the air out of the ink cartridges after filling and basically prime the ink cartridge.
Indulge me here a bit longer. The pressurized ink system does work and help, but it's apparent to me that sometimes there just may be too much air in the cartridge, or perhaps the cartridge has not seated tightly enough on insertion to get a good seal. While printing a K7 image, I had a channel drop out. Very weird and the normal cleans and nozzle check didn't work. I removed the cartridge, primed it with the syringe removing the air from the cartridge followed by a succession of nozzle checks and cleans. Result? Printer works fine.
IMO, I do not think that fine art printing is any more of a "push-the-button" affair any more than the notion that all a photographer does is "push-the-button." It takes time, commitment, skills, maintenance, and a bit of head scratching patience sometimes. But I'm also convinced that (at least for me) fine art printing is a satisfying and worthwhile endeavor. With that in mind, my Epson 9900 and 9890 printers have been very solid performers.
ken :)
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Great info Ken!
Like I said, my 9890 come in Wednesday. I'm going to have a humidifier on day one. I read or saw somewhere to remove the cartridges "weekly" for shaking?
Would you say the syringe technique could be implemented on OEM carts?
Max
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Max,
If you print frequently, I don't think you need to agitate the cartridges (pigment settling). I never agitate cartridges on my 9900 which I use most of the time. I wish I printed more K7 B&W and hoping to see more growth there as people discover K7 printing---but I do agitate the cartridges every few weeks or so on the 9890 which is not used as frequently.
The syringes have a modified "head" which hold the priming tip. They can be found here: http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/sc.11/category.27717/.f (not the ones with needles!). There is no reason you couldn't use these on OEM cartridges since the delivery (valve) system in the cartridges is the same. Simply turn cartridge up (air flows up, right? ;)), insert the syringe priming tip and slowly withdraw air. Some ink will come out as well. Dispose of air/ink and repeat if needed.
ken
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I don't think that always solves the issue of "air" in the cartridge which may stop ink from effectively reaching the print head. Hence, the "clog." Jon Cone includes in his piezography conversion K7 kit, these modified syringes that are used to suck the air out of the ink cartridges after filling and basically prime the ink cartridge.
An Epson OEM cartridge does not contain any air in with the ink. While refilling a cartridge with inks as you describe may require removal of air, doing so on an OEM cartridge is unnecessary and could be problematic.
To clarify how Epson uses “pressure” to deliver the ink, the cartridge has two ports, one for the ink to be delivered, the other connects to the pressure system. The ink is contained in a collapsable bladder, and the plastic cartridge is somewhat air tight. This second port allows the printer to pressurize the air inside the cartridge that surrounds the bladder, effectively squeezing it resulting in pressure.
Any air in the line is likely from the cartridge not sealing when it is inserted. Personally I think removing the cartridge frequently to shake may be more problematic because constant exposure to air where the ink port is may dry ink around there and prevent a good seal, allowing air to leak in around the seal. I think once every few months (if at all) is more than enough agitation.
If constant nozzle drops are the result of air, this indicates a possible problem with the dampers, since their main purpose is to allow this air to escape from the head before it can get to the nozzles.
Regarding the replacement of the wiper, examining the wiper is important, but not necessarily replacement. It can be cleaned with some distilled water and if necessary a little windex. But if you remove the wiper and it is disgusting, its probably too late, you have already packed dried ink into areas around the head.
My 9900 is 3 years old the wiper is still virtually pristine. I pull it about every 6 months and clean it with a little RO water.
I think cleaning the wiper every 3 to 6 months (depending on how often your printer needs cleaning cycless) is more beneficial than replacing it yearly. Keeping it clean prevents old dry ink stuck on the wiper from getting pushed into nozzles.
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All,
I hope someone can help me out with the following:
For those of us living in more humid climes (Scotland, in my case), is a value for relative humidity that is greater than 40% problematic in terms of nozzle jams?
Thanks,
Rob
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It should help.
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Mark,
It should help.
But no guarantees? Sigh.
Thanks,
Rob
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The only two guaranteed things in this life are death and taxes. :-)
Serious: higher humidity is better for your printer than lower humidity. But no, not me; only Epson is in a position to guarantee their products and unfortunately there isn't a clogging clause.
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There are never any guarantees. When things work as they are supposed to (as Wayne describes) it's great. It's when things go awry that you may need to make some additional efforts.
My printer is located in a more naturally humid climate which makes maintenance easy. Regular printing and nozzle checks are the norm. I use swab-its to clean the wiper on occasion and replace the wiper annually. The wiper is probably the least expensive printer part, as well as the easiest user-replaceable part---which Epson recommends replacing annually. I wish Epson would develop/print and small booklet on maintenance guidelines/best practices/minor repairs for Epson Pro printers.
ken
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Mark, Ken,
Thanks for the additional words. I shouldn't have used the word guarantee, but I had hoped for greater reassurance than "it should help" (no offence, Mark, as I appreciate you were simply being honest).
Food for thought. Thanks again,
Rob
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I very much appreciate all of the interesting comments in response to my initial question. My current 4900 is hopelessly clogged and I most likely did a job on the print head trying to clear it using several methods. I love the 4900 and am in the process of replacing it with a new 4900. I now have a humidifier and will try and print more often or at least run a "test" print every few days or so. I am also getting the extended warranty.
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I just started (literally, just yesterday) using this one after a number of recommendations....... (was on sale during the summer :) )
The unit & my print area is in open 'loft' area so I'm going to assume it will not be able to really keep up but it did bump the % from 30 to 38% (unit on medium) although the unit had shut off (run out of water) in about 18 hours. Not enough runtime data to reliably say much more
http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-QuietCare-Humidifier-Technology-HCM-6009/dp/B000G0LDRI/ref=sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1420119952&sr=8-3-spell&keywords=quietair+honeywell
Thanks for the link, Howard. My Honeywell unit arrived yesterday. First time I've ever used a humidifier. Despite running a wood stove as my primary heat in the room adjacent to my home studio, I've never experienced any kind of significant head clog on my 3880, or the 3800 that preceded it. The epic stories of clogs in general suggest that a bit of humidity isn't a bad thing, though. So down the road we go.
I admit to casting lustful eyes at the 4900, in spite of the horror stories...
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I never considered this living in Florida, but I get very frequent clogs on my machine. I have had two nozzle clogs and auto cleanings due to clogged nozzles in only a month. I do keep air on constantly set to 75.
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If 75 is the room temperature, that is not the critical variable here - the concern is humidity. If by "air" you mean air-conditioning, that dries out the air, reducing humidity. This could be part of the reason why you are experiencing the need to clean the printer twice in a month, though I have to say, that's not too bad if the cleaning requirements are mild. The other key factor is the duration of the intervals between machine use.
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Just to add my 2 cents... I was asking about humidifiers last year when I was experiencing bad clogs on my 4900. I purchased this Sears/Kenmore (http://www.sears.ca/product/kenmore-md-454-litre-digital-humidifier/642-000017871-758_3_29982OC) unit and it's worked great. I don't have a water source to continuously fill it, so I have to fill the tank every morning, and again when I leave at the end of the day (my studio is out of my home). I'm in Central Ontario - north of Toronto and it gets very dry here in the winter... 25ish % a lot of the time. I try to keep mine at least to the 40% mark but prefer it 45 to 50%. In that range I rarely have problems.
I just got back from not having the printers (I also have the 9900) or humidifier running for two weeks. Before I left, I put some AIS fluid in the docking station. I still had a clog on the 4900 on almost all channels when I got back, but I got the humidity back up to 45%, did a head clean and print - and the print was fine. It's still showing a few misses in the test pattern, but it's working and now that I'm back and can keep the humidity at a reasonably consistent level, I should have few problems.
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I'm keeping my room close to 50% humidity.Temp at 70-73 degrees with 2 buckets of water close to printers in a computer nook-no windows.Also using Harvey Head Cleaner.I was gone for a few days and my 4900 and 9900 had a few clogs but nothing like before.Cleared up nicely.I do have more tendencies for the cyan and v magenta to clog on 4900 and 9900.My 7890 hasn't been a problem at all.(I know-too many printers ;D).Still learning.
I got an Epson 4800 back to life after cleaning wiper blade,flushing head station,and general maintenance.(paid $100 with close to full ink!) Sweet!
Mike
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Mike,
you wrote " put some AIS fluid in the docking station. "
I have a new 9890 delivering tomorrow. we have 19% humitity today. Will get a humidifier today. I checked out the AIS site, but they have a lot of products and kits.
Could you advise me what I should get to keep on hand? Not owning a large epson before, is is straight forward to access the docking station? Any tips.
I want to start off right.
Does keeping two buckets of water near the printer help?
How close do you keep the humidifier to the printer? I have a 20x20 foot room with high ceilings. I'm thinking a Wick/evaporation system right next to it?
Thank you!
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Get the Harvey Head Cleaner.It can be programmed to print a nozzle check pattern to keep ink flowing when not in use.Computer must be on.I keep my water bucket close to my printers but not too close as to get large prints wet from dropping them into the water.Nothing special though.I cleaned the wipers myself from the videos taken from here(see link below:the x900 guru).Simple. It's not too bad-I believe you will be pleased with the results.Just have a few hoops to jump through.
Look here for tutorials and self servicing.I used the windex method to clear major clogs on 4900 a year ago and current 4800.
He's (Eric) fantastic.
http://myx900.com
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Thank you.
I look forward to my 9890 tomorrow. Bought a humidifier today, but not the one I wanted. Will add 2 water buckets. We have 19% humidity here. I ordered on ebay a humidity meter. So I can keep a eye on it.
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Just to add my 2 cents... I was asking about humidifiers last year when I was experiencing bad clogs on my 4900. I purchased this Sears/Kenmore (http://www.sears.ca/product/kenmore-md-454-litre-digital-humidifier/642-000017871-758_3_29982OC) unit and it's worked great. I don't have a water source to continuously fill it, so I have to fill the tank every morning, and again when I leave at the end of the day (my studio is out of my home). I'm in Central Ontario - north of Toronto and it gets very dry here in the winter... 25ish % a lot of the time. I try to keep mine at least to the 40% mark but prefer it 45 to 50%. In that range I rarely have problems.
I just got back from not having the printers (I also have the 9900) or humidifier running for two weeks. Before I left, I put some AIS fluid in the docking station. I still had a clog on the 4900 on almost all channels when I got back, but I got the humidity back up to 45%, did a head clean and print - and the print was fine. It's still showing a few misses in the test pattern, but it's working and now that I'm back and can keep the humidity at a reasonably consistent level, I should have few problems.
I am really curious about "the few misses in the test pattern." I've had this occur after multiple attempts to get a full test pattern on a nozzle check. It drives me nuts! Is it fair to say that if the output looks okay, you don't really need to have a full test pattern? Is the presence of banding the cut off point?