Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Other Raw Converters => Apple Aperture Q&A => Topic started by: Clearair on December 19, 2014, 06:21:56 am

Title: Disaster
Post by: Clearair on December 19, 2014, 06:21:56 am
Firstly I'm not a troll but I am upset, so this is for advise if there is a kind sole out there in forum land. I may be missing a trick or two. I would
like to warn others of what I believe is a bug in Aperture.

I only use Apple and Canon and was always unhappy with the giant user unfriendly Adobe PS. Only use it for the excellent Canon printing plugins now.
When Apple still had a show in London I was second in the que to ask about Aperture after it was presented for the first time.
THIS was more like it. Built for photographers, safe as no masterfile monkeying about and a library GUI.

I have tried Lightroom but can't get on with it and why must it get so top heavy with features and overly complex? My opinion.
If I need a certain function thats what third party plugins are for.

I have five libraries that have different types of images in them. Two weeks ago I randomly opened a project featuring a feisty Leopard that almost took out my friend to see Aperture re processing, and files falling over, like something out of The Matrix !!!!!!!!

I am currently running Snow Leopard and Aperture 3.2 but have Maverick and the latest Aperture version waiting on a separate HD partition. I like to wait before adopting a new OS, do all the update and house work first. Lion was not worth the effort.

Anyway this library holds two years of African photography mainly in Namibia and SA and is irreplaceable.
Project after project has failed.
over 100 projects and 11000 photographs useless raws.
The other libraries are OK it seems.

Now this is what I think has happened.
Library 1 had some later projects that were from Africa and I decided to move them into library 3, where all files were exclusive to African photography. I wanted to edit and tidy up before moving to the new OS and Aperture and used the library export function both add and in some cases merge where project names were similar. I checked the moved projects to see the previews were there but did not open the files or notice Aperture processing which it should not do as they were already processed.
All seemed OK, it's not like I have not done this before.
I deleted the original projects from Library 1.

I think Aperture has corrupted many of these moved files and although  most preview images open OK, Aperture then starts to process files and the previews start to go black, image file not supported, noise in preview and just not there and wrong files in wrong projects.

This library shares a HD with another which is OK, but I still moved both out and ran HD check and the disk passed all the tests.
I have always worried about HD failure, although the only ones to fail were where the OS and apps were, I have never lost a HD holding files only.
BUT of course Aperture libraries are part of the app.

I have tried the usual Aperture fault correction tool, and even Tech Tools 7.
The disk unmounted.

I got the library back with Vault, but as I update Vault after doing work it was corrupted.
I used Time machine also but the same issue as I had replaced the external HD where I keep Time Machines files and had to start over about the same time as I moved the original projects. So I could not go back far enough.

I used to keep Raw files from the flash cards on DVD but it became unmanageable and Apple has never supported BluRay, so I have very limited files backed up this way.

I have trawled through the web and come across reports of a bug that Apple has never addressed, but most people are able to get their files back and it seems the function I like Aperture for, DAM or at least a good GUI for handling files is the culprit.
I have worked for a week into the small hours and have only save a third of my work. So I trotted up to Apple in London while visiting family, I live in Dorset, and got advise based on an Aperture pro apps specialist dealing with the support phone call when I am back home. It was put to me it may have to escalate to the design team in the USA. Not unusual to me as I have received calls from other companies before on this basis and very good they were to.

The support call was a waste of everyones time. The Apple guy was polite but knew no more than me. The remote session covered everything I had tried. He asked a colleague, read boss for advise, and then informed me it was a file corruption and not app issue so nothing to do with Apple and ended the call.

Oh yeah.

I know people are looking to migrate to other apps as Apple does not want to continue with further versions of Aperture, be wary of moving Aperture libraries.

Regards to all.

Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: CatOne on December 21, 2014, 11:24:06 am
I can't tell if you have your files back or if there's a question. But a couple notes:

1) You should always have backups. In fact, you should always have at least TWO backups, one nearby, and one offsite.
2) Aperture does not EVER touch the original RAW files. It does not and will not corrupt the originals. If the originals are corrupted, it's because the hard disk is failing.
3) If you ever need the original RAW files, you can access them via Finder. Aperture's library files are just folders, all you need to do is right click on an Aperture library and do "show package contents" and go to the Masters folder, and all files are in there in subfolders. Or, you can just access an Aperture library from a machine that doesn't have Aperture installed and the library will simply appear as a folder on disk.
Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: Clearair on December 21, 2014, 04:15:29 pm
Yes there was a question as to help if anyone had experience and had a solution to regaining my RAWS.
Yes I was told that Aperture does not alter any RAW files. Thats why I use it.
Yes I have accessed the SHOW contents folder and extracted raw files and many of them are useless.
I have not moved a contents folder to another HD and will try that so thanks for the idea.
IT is NOT a HD problem as I explained I have run both Mac utilities and Tech Tools 7 on the HD. NO bad blocks, no failures of any kind.
This HD also had another Library on it and this is 100% OK.

The difference between the two is that I imported projects as libraries into a working Library from a working library and Aperture then unnoticed by me started a re process of all files in the moved to destination. WHY? That is a software bug.

I had back ups but vault was backed up at that time as I was about to start using a new OS and wanted to retain the option of using the earlier Aperture version in case of problems.Silly me. So the vault for the effected library is of no use.
Time machine was to recent as I had moved it to a new HD and lost earlier backups. It all happened in the same storm.
I know my backup failed me and needs more thought but the fact remains I believe that contrary to what Apple and you say faith is not valid here.
I am nutty about keeping my HD'S maitained and replace them often, thats why I use a MAC PRO desk top as it is so easy to swap HD'S. I don't buy the cheapest and I even check them before use.
Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: BobShaw on December 21, 2014, 05:04:18 pm
Ok, firstly Mavericks is not a new operating system. It is superseded, but I use it. Aperture 3.2 is way old.

You don't say what tool you used to correct the problem, but with Aperture not open, hold the Option and Command keys and double click the catalogue. Repair the database first, then do it again and if that doesn't work rebuild the database. Unfortunately if you have already gone into the contents and started to take it apart then it is probably too late.

Never import files into Aperture, just leave them on the hard disk they are on. If you have already done this then I suggest not doing it going forward as the catalogue just gets really big. Aperture does not change raw files. I never use vault. I just use Time Machine.

I have looked at Capture One to migrate to, but it is not nearly as good as Aperture and I dislike the clumsy Lightroom interface.
Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: David Mantripp on December 23, 2014, 04:47:05 pm
Seems obvious, but... Have you tried checking your RAW files with another application ?  The simplest option would be to try Preview. It can open any RAW that Aperture can open.  Or iPhoto.  Or indeed the Finder itself (although I guess Finder reads embedded JPGs. Maybe Preview does as well). Or, of course, creating a new Aperture library and importing just a few files.

Anyway, try to separate out a possible file corruption issue (which you seem to be ruling out) and an Aperture database issue.  I've never used Vaults so I don't know how they could enter into the mix, but it sounds like Aperture's database is screwed up and it is trying to fix itself. This can take a very, very long time.
Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: John Sluder on December 23, 2014, 05:13:15 pm
This is NOT the end of the world. I found a bunch of old Aperture Libraries on old HD I had in storage and had the same issue you are having

I think Aperture has corrupted many of these moved files and although  most preview images open OK, Aperture then starts to process files and the previews start to go black, image file not supported, noise in preview and just not there and wrong files in wrong projects.

Your thumbnails are hosed...

Reprocess the originals and hold the option key down and select "create previews" if you are doing this on a laptop make sure to lift up the bottom of the case this will cause the CPU as well and the GPU to work hard, is will also cause your battery to slowly discharge the amp draw of the CPU & GPU is greater than the power brick can pump out...

All is not lost
Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: Clearair on December 26, 2014, 11:23:57 am
Hi Bob if I may,
Mavericks is a new OS for me. I am not up for changing my OS just because Apple want to point us in a certain direction. SL was stable and offered 64bit/nice GUI.
Mavericks actually has a few enhancement apps but Lion did nothing for me so missed it out.
I had to use Aperture 3.2 as Apple saw fit to make any further updates not usable in SL. So I re installed Aperture when things were going apeshit. No effect.
I have moved my intact Libraries to Mav and the new? version of Aperture which is still for sale. Think they are safe?
I am going to work on the duff library in my old OS until it looks safe before trying it in Mav/Apnew.
I have tried some of the corrupt projects in the later OS to no effect.
I have tried the Aperture repair tool options to no effect but plan on trying from a Vault version after STOPPING it trying to reprocess all the files.
The old library will then be trashed.
It is interesting about not importing files to prevent a large Aperture directory. Does anyone know the safe limits of Aperture projects, Libraries etc?

I would like to thank all those that have posted on this topic and wish you a happy and trouble free New Years.
Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: Clearair on December 26, 2014, 11:42:31 am
Hi David
I have tried all of your suggestions but thanks for your thoughts.

One thing of interest.

When selecting an image file and getting the file/info option from the main menu top bar, there are two drop down information areas.
The more information one carries image shooting data. This was blank on non opening files when the Apple support techie was watching on remote and he commented that means it is not recognised as an image file. So will not open. I accepted his wisdom.
2 hours later when trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff I noticed I had files that opened in Aperture, PS and Canons raw app BUT showed NO DATA in said file info/drop down.
So that proves nothing as well.

I have had a bad cold so will start again soon but it looks like all the bad image files are from projects I moved and added or merged into another library.

Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: Clearair on December 26, 2014, 11:46:30 am
Hi John

Sorry for delay in responding but have been both ill and busy with Christmas.

I will try your suggestion as soon as I have a clear head and time.

Happy New Year
Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: John Sluder on December 26, 2014, 12:28:40 pm
PM me and I can screen share with you and walk you thru this, it scary but not the send of the world
Hi John

Sorry for delay in responding but have been both ill and busy with Christmas.

I will try your suggestion as soon as I have a clear head and time.

Happy New Year
Title: Re: Disaster
Post by: gfsymon on January 01, 2015, 06:48:56 am
Update to the latest versions of both mavericks 10.9 and Aperture.  (Yosemite still has some (non-serious) issues with Aperture).

What you are seeing is problems with the Previews.  Some video/graphics cards have issues with certain version of both OS and Aperture, however, the latest should be fine.  You will need to rebuild your Previews.

(Always have *archives* (different from backups) that you never alter).