Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: garywornell on November 04, 2014, 11:55:50 pm

Title: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 04, 2014, 11:55:50 pm
Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - Fine Art Media for Ink Jet Printers
As a photographer, printmaker and developer of this new Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper from Epson I would like to draw your attention to this new media. It is the thinnest lightest weight natural fibre InkJet paper on the market (currently available in Europe) and we really want to see it spread around the world. Here is a link to a video which gives a bit of background to how this all started and shows what is possible. Enjoy.
http://www.garywornell.com/kozo/videos/
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: aduke on November 05, 2014, 12:11:16 am
When will this be available in the US?

Alan
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 05, 2014, 12:51:33 am
Epson need to feel there is a real market for this media in the US. It can be ordered from Europe. Best thing is show this video to your local dealer and ask them to enquire at Epson when it can be expected in the USA.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 05, 2014, 03:27:16 am
Same question... Is it already available in Japan? ;)

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard

Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 05, 2014, 03:41:06 am
The Epson representatives who are responsible for this media in Japan and Asia are working on this. The paper was launched in Europe by Epson Europe and each region is responsible for ordering the media themselves. At the moment few outside Europe know that this even exists. If you have a local dealer - send me their contact details and I'll do what I can to forward it to the relevant people. You can also visit our facebook page for further info
https://www.facebook.com/EpsonJapaneseKozoPaperThin
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Kevin Gallagher on November 05, 2014, 06:18:58 am
 A very clever solution, well done sir!
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 05, 2014, 07:02:07 am
Thank you Kevin.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: John Caldwell on November 05, 2014, 08:55:11 am
The idea is all new to me but it's an appealing idea. I didn't grasp from your video part I, Gary: A backing sheet is, or is not needed at the time of printing Kozo?

John Caldwell
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Jim Metzger on November 05, 2014, 09:29:33 am
I know several artists who I print for that would love this paper, I'll be bringing to the attention of my supplier.

How durable is the image if used as a replacement for rice paper in shoji screen applications?

Regards

Jim
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Ken Doo on November 05, 2014, 09:48:03 am
It does look like the paper uses a backer from the video.

Nice!

 :)
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 05, 2014, 09:49:06 am
Jim, This paper is a Signature Worthy paper and when used with Epson K3 Ultrachrome inkset has an archival life equivalent to all the papers in that range. What's more is that the paper has amazing abrasion resistance, deep blacks and a heavenly surface unlike any other paper on the market. I have worked with a cabinet maker now in Finland for the last 2 years making Japanese Screen type applications and these have been laminated with paper side out onto polycarbonate allowing the light to pass through as if there was no firm support. It also makes for beautiful lamps as can be seen on the Facebook page: http://tinyurl.com/kvceclc
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 05, 2014, 09:52:07 am
John, The paper has been developed with a support - that means it is part of the media until after the media is printed, allowed to dry (approx 4-6 hours) and then peeled away from the back of the print. The paper can also be left on the support - but it is at its best when peeled and the light weight and transparency come into their own.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: elliot_n on November 05, 2014, 10:05:28 am
This paper looks very interesting. Does it print best with Matt or Photo black ink? What does 'Signature Worthy' mean?
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 05, 2014, 10:22:24 am
This paper is best printed with matt black. The structure of the paper gives deep velvety blacks with the Epson Ultrachrome matt black.
Signature Worthy papers: Only the highest quality Epson papers receive the designation of Signature Worthy.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Pro/FocalPoints/Story/SignatureWorthy.do
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Rob Reiter on November 05, 2014, 02:24:47 pm
Take a look at the line of inkjet papers from Awagami. Freestyle Photographic (http://www.freestylephoto.biz/category/9-Paper/Inkjet-Paper?mfg%5B%5D=283) carries a good selection, including thin kozo (mulberry fiber) papers all the way up to luscious (and pricey) thick handmade sheets of Bizan, with natural mould-made deckled edges. Beautiful papers!



Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on November 05, 2014, 05:21:39 pm
Jim, This paper is a Signature Worthy paper and when used with Epson K3 Ultrachrome inkset has an archival life equivalent to all the papers in that range.

The Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper (EU: Epson Traditional Photo Paper) not counted I hope, the rest has a reasonable fade resistance and stable paper white in time according Aardenburg Imaging. "Archival" is an ambiguous term.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 05, 2014, 10:01:59 pm
Thank you Ernst,
Yes you are right. Archival is ambiguous. Pigment inks and a Neutral PH paper say enough about the life of the image.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 05, 2014, 10:15:55 pm
Rob, yes Awagami make interesting papers, but none of their papers come close to the weight, translucence, and surface character of the Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin. There is no support sheet technology in Awagami's production, severely limiting the weight that can successfully be put through a water based ink jet device. You have to see Epson's Japanese Kozo Paper Thin against the thinnest Awagami Kozo and then you can make a comparison. :-)
This is also the first natural fibre inkjet paper in the world that you can fold and the image won't crack. Think Origami!
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 05, 2014, 10:20:34 pm
The Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper (EU: Epson Traditional Photo Paper) not counted I hope, the rest has a reasonable fade resistance and stable paper white in time according Aardenburg Imaging. "Archival" is an ambiguous term.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.



BTW - there are no OBAs in this media.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: davidh202 on November 05, 2014, 11:29:01 pm
I read about this a year ago ( http://dpnow.com/9378.html )  and wondered why we haven't seen it in the states I can't wait to get my hands on some Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 05, 2014, 11:35:38 pm
I read about this a year ago ( http://dpnow.com/9378.html )  and wondered why we haven't seen it in the states I can't wait to get my hands on some Thanks for the info!

Yes David, hopefully if someone in the US puts some pressure on Epson USA to start ordering then this will start the ball rolling. The Epson organisation have very different approaches according to regions, and the demand must come from within the US for Epson USA to take notice.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 06, 2014, 04:24:57 am
Gary, what size rolls are available? and do rolls have the support as well? Thanks 

Currently the roll sizes are 17" and 24" x 10m
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 06, 2014, 05:09:15 am
Gary, do these rolls have the support as well? Thanks.

Sorry - I forgot to answer about the support. The paper depends on the support whether sheet or roll. That is the design solution, that is the technology that has made it possible to produce the thinnest Kozo paper for inkjet in the world. It works. ;)
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Stefan Ohlsson on November 06, 2014, 05:28:59 am
For some images this is a wonderful paper. And very glad to see that Epson is distributing a paper that is sooo far from a standard paper.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 06, 2014, 05:38:36 am
For some images this is a wonderful paper. And very glad to see that Epson is distributing a paper that is sooo far from a standard paper.

Thanks Stefan, Yes this paper is well suited to some photography extremely well. It will support the other papers in the Epson Signature Worthy range and be used for a number of new applications in Interior Decoration, Graphic Design and Illustration. It is very versatile. Can be face mounted, Diasec, stretch mounted and a whole host of possibilities exist.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 06, 2014, 08:05:42 am
So you're saying that the sheets have backing support but not the rolls? Can you please clarify?

Also, what sheet sizes are available? Couldn't find any details on the Epson site. Thanks.

Actually I did say this 'The paper depends on the support whether sheet or roll...' The sheet media is not yet available - so rolls are the current limitation. Sheet has been successfully prepared but Epson have not yet incorporated the sheet into the product range.

The support sheet and the paper are manufactured as one so you print without worry. After printing you let the media dry completely then simply remove the support sheet. Hey presto!
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: MHMG on November 06, 2014, 10:51:28 am
....Pigment inks and a Neutral PH paper say enough about the life of the image.

It would indeed simplify the material choices for the fine art printmaker if that statement was true, but it's not, especially with modern inkjet prints where there are many other ingredients being added to both the inks and the media that affect the long term stability of the printed image. The choice and concentration of the pigments on their own merits can have a profound influence. Similarly, even the delicate tones of a print made with pure carbon pigment which is extremely stable as an image forming material will be seriously undermined if the media has poorly performing coatings lying on top of that "acid-free, "lignin-free","archival" "PH neutral"  "cotton rag"  base sheet.  Those are all buzz words the industry uses to convince us the printed image is stable, but without extensive testing these code words for "archival" don't always speak the truth. Signature worthy Exhibition Fiber paper is a case and point. The coatings used in EEF, not the base sheet properties are letting that product down.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Rob Reiter on November 06, 2014, 12:56:42 pm
And if the Epson paper were available in the US, I'd gladly try some...but it's not, and the Awagami is.


Rob, yes Awagami make interesting papers, but none of their papers come close to the weight, translucence, and surface character of the Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin. There is no support sheet technology in Awagami's production, severely limiting the weight that can successfully be put through a water based ink jet device. You have to see Epson's Japanese Kozo Paper Thin against the thinnest Awagami Kozo and then you can make a comparison. :-)
This is also the first natural fibre inkjet paper in the world that you can fold and the image won't crack. Think Origami!
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: deanwork on November 06, 2014, 03:09:21 pm
Both Awagami, sold through Freestyle, and Hiromi paper in Calif are selling several new products that use an ink receptor coating on their Kozo or similar media. I am also noticing that these companies are using blends of Mulberry with either cotton or alpha cellulose papers to achieve a more photographic resolution.

Moab is selling one also, probably made by one of the above long established Japanese paper companies.

http://store.hiromipaper.com/ijseries.aspx

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/search?q=kozo


It's all expensive as hell now, while the natural or bleached 100% uncoated Kozo remains fairly cheap.

A guy from Awagami in Japan wrote me that I should buy their papers in the US from Freestyle. They are back ordered now. Probably because they were promoting them at trade shows this year.

I haven't tried either the Hiromi or the Awagami coated versions yet but I have some on order.

The Hahnemuhle "rice paper" doesn't look anything at all like traditional Japanese papers. I don't know what that's about.

John
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Rob Reiter on November 06, 2014, 03:58:16 pm
The Moab Unryu is made by Awagami.


Moab is selling one also, probably made by one of the above long established Japanese paper companies.

Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: deanwork on November 06, 2014, 06:06:26 pm
So you are saying this new Epson Kozo is thinner and has better dmax and color gamut than the Japanese coated versions? They have thin versions also.  I wonder who's making it?

I'm ready to try it as soon as I can get my hands on some.

john

Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 06, 2014, 08:54:45 pm
So you are saying this new Epson Kozo is thinner and has better dmax and color gamut than the Japanese coated versions? They have thin versions also.  I wonder who's making it?

I'm ready to try it as soon as I can get my hands on some.

john



This paper has a much higher Dmax and color gamut than anything produced by Awagami. A recent test done by the French WorkFlow magazine has this rating considerably higher.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Wolfman on November 07, 2014, 03:22:03 am
I have an Epson 3880 printer. If I ordered a roll of the 17" paper would it be practical to cut sheets from the roll so I could print on my 3880 since it does not support rolls?
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 07, 2014, 03:37:13 am
Hello,
Short answer yes.
When you cut the sheet you will need to keep it rolled in a tube before feeding into the paper feed (manual rear) because there may be a tendency for the paper to curl in the wrong direction if left too long off the roll. The sheet product has over come this, but is not yet in full scale production.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on November 07, 2014, 04:05:47 am
Gary,

The backside of the Kozo has a kind of release coating (I guess, based on tactile experience) to avoid permanent sticking to the support paper at the back. Are there any consequences in print mounting (hinges etc|) and on print longevity as a result of that coating?
I see the support is close in paper white color to the Kozo. Custom profiling can be done with the support still attached to give a better reflection value? I will try to make the spectral plots of the Kozo this weekend and add them in the Oriental Paper map of SpectrumViz.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Mark Lindquist on November 07, 2014, 07:13:56 am
Great paper for reproducing ukiyo-e.....

Would there be any problems using this paper on the HP ZXXX series printers?

I am super ready to use this paper like yesterday!

-Mark

 
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 07, 2014, 07:26:38 am
Great paper for reproducing ukiyo-e.....

Would there be any problems using this paper on the HP ZXXX series printers?

I am super ready to use this paper like yesterday!

-Mark

 

Hello Mark, many thanks for this. yes for ukiyo-e this is perfect.
I will enquire about the HP - but certainly if it is water based pigment - there should be no problem.
Best
Gary
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Pete_G on November 07, 2014, 09:39:16 am
This sounds like a really interesting paper. I like your mounting idea. Waiting for supplies of sheet stock.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: chez on November 07, 2014, 10:45:39 am
Any ideas of pricing?
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: deanwork on November 07, 2014, 12:22:58 pm
I am already making beautiful prints on rather thin traditional Kozo on both the Z3100 and the Canon IPF8300. When doing large prints the receptor coating isn't as critical as with smaller prints, though certainly desirable if available!

The extra dmax of the Vivera inks work especially well on this kind of media. Although I can make quite decent profiles with the internal i1 spectro on the Z, I prefer to make the profiles with X-rite pro software and 2013 patches. The Z can also linearize this material internally after you have a good icc profile. I don't even use a backing sheet with it, though with this new stuff it might be a bit too thin to do that.

Back 10-12 years ago when I made my Kozo prints on Epson LF printers I always taped the large and small sheets to conventional poster board like you can buy at the supermarket or any art supply store. I used drafting tape and it worked great. However, as Walker Blackwell pointed out to me you can always turn off the vacuum on Epson printers and run a lot of the Japanese papers through them with no backing at all. He's done that for years.

John
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: rxchaos on November 07, 2014, 02:32:20 pm
Is the Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin something similar to Moab's Moenkopi Kozo paper?
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 08, 2014, 05:17:43 am
Is the Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin something similar to Moab's Moenkopi Kozo paper?
I'd have to see the spec - but at 110gm the Japanese Kozo Thin is less that 1/3 the weight. It was never a challenge to create a printable Kozo. The challenge was 34gm. Nothing on the market from Japan, Korea or China equals the Dmax, abrasion resistance, weight or texture of the Epson Kozo.
The recent review in the French magazine Workflow which give 8.5/10 rating states 'L50 gamut of the Epson Kozo is very large for a paper of this kind. The equivalent in Awagami is very far behind. The D- Max is also very incredible for a paper in this category' It also listed Epson's Japanese Kozo paper Thin as a 'Favorite' and with a healthy list of 'Pros' the only 'Con' was that currently it is only available on Roll.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 08, 2014, 05:31:54 am
Any ideas of pricing?
European prices - approx: 17” (10 m) : 79 €  • 24” (10 m) : 112 €
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 08, 2014, 06:00:39 am
Gary, how easy would be to peel the backing off, let's say an A1 print? Thanks.
Check out this early development video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAcoeOuwS4o&list=UUfZrQ8GctedKl51AhlqFMZA
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: alain on November 08, 2014, 06:29:11 am
Hello,
Short answer yes.
When you cut the sheet you will need to keep it rolled in a tube before feeding into the paper feed (manual rear) because there may be a tendency for the paper to curl in the wrong direction if left too long off the roll. The sheet product has over come this, but is not yet in full scale production.


Thanks for the info.  Are there 3800 icc profiles made by epson?
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: alain on November 08, 2014, 06:31:05 am
European prices - approx: 17” (10 m) : 79 €  • 24” (10 m) : 112 €

Hi how does the start and end behaves?  10m is short and if the first and last 0.5m are not usable...
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 08, 2014, 08:51:00 pm
Hi how does the start and end behaves?  10m is short and if the first and last 0.5m are not usable...
Its 10m.
G
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: chez on November 08, 2014, 09:57:38 pm
Its 10m.
G

But quite often the last few feet of a roll are not usable. Is that the case with this paper?
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 08, 2014, 10:10:52 pm
But quite often the last few feet of a roll are not usable. Is that the case with this paper?
I can't imagine why. I have printed about 2 km of paper in 10 years and not had that experience. In my commercial printing I allow 20% loss in my calculations on pricing jobs - if there is a problem with the paper I accept it. Drop outs from dust particles or small defects can happen in any paper. We are printers. Loss is part of the process. This paper also has potential for losses. There are small lumps of fibre, small pieces of bark and very occasionally a small oil spot. In the spirit of a paper specifically designed to get away from absolute perfect the Japanese Kozo Paper Thin achieves a wonderful balance of hand made and amazing other qualities. Those who want this paper will accept the occasional loss, or they will simply not use it.

Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: rxchaos on November 08, 2014, 11:09:49 pm
Just wondering what media type would one set for the paper on an Epson7900.  "Velvet Fine Paper" as used for Hahnemühle's Rice paper or "Ultrasmooth fine art paper"
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 08, 2014, 11:58:58 pm
Just wondering what media type would one set for the paper on an Epson7900.  "Velvet Fine Paper" as used for Hahnemühle's Rice paper or "Ultrasmooth fine art paper"
USFAP normally.
Epson's updated software includes the Japanese Kozo in the media type.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: alain on November 09, 2014, 07:07:19 am
I can't imagine why. I have printed about 2 km of paper in 10 years and not had that experience. In my commercial printing I allow 20% loss in my calculations on pricing jobs - if there is a problem with the paper I accept it. Drop outs from dust particles or small defects can happen in any paper. We are printers. Loss is part of the process. This paper also has potential for losses. There are small lumps of fibre, small pieces of bark and very occasionally a small oil spot. In the spirit of a paper specifically designed to get away from absolute perfect the Japanese Kozo Paper Thin achieves a wonderful balance of hand made and amazing other qualities. Those who want this paper will accept the occasional loss, or they will simply not use it.


Unfortunately I did quite often and if that's the result of an imprint of the structure of a paperboard core roll on the paper, I'm not that happy.  This type of problem can be avoided at production.
As I'm not printing commercial, the cost is on me. 

I do know that I lose some prints, that's part of the process.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: chez on November 09, 2014, 07:42:55 am
I can't imagine why. I have printed about 2 km of paper in 10 years and not had that experience. In my commercial printing I allow 20% loss in my calculations on pricing jobs - if there is a problem with the paper I accept it. Drop outs from dust particles or small defects can happen in any paper. We are printers. Loss is part of the process. This paper also has potential for losses. There are small lumps of fibre, small pieces of bark and very occasionally a small oil spot. In the spirit of a paper specifically designed to get away from absolute perfect the Japanese Kozo Paper Thin achieves a wonderful balance of hand made and amazing other qualities. Those who want this paper will accept the occasional loss, or they will simply not use it.



And I'm speaking from experience using rolls where I find the last few feet of a roll is not usable. Since these rolls are shorter, that just makes the percentage of throw away higher. I'd rather see 40' rolls rather than shorter ones
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: alain on November 09, 2014, 07:43:01 am
Two more questions :

Till which size is it -safely- possible to do a strech mount?  I've seen the picture of hanging stretch mounted photo's in a exposition way up this thread, are the not very fragile?

In one of you're video's you "glu" them to a clear pmma sheet with an diluted acrylic "glu", can you give information on it?  The paper is so thin i fear most products would come thru the paper.

Alain
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Ken Doo on November 09, 2014, 10:13:31 am
Don't know if it is a problem with this product from Epson (imprint of the structure of a paperboard core roll on the paper)---Gary might know.  Breathing Color's thin foam on the cardboard core helps alleviate/address waste of media at the end of the roll.  Great idea and I wish more manufacturers would do the same.  Another pet peeve is when manufacturers tape the media to itself, so when you pull off the tape, you lose about a foot of media at the start of the roll.

ken
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on November 09, 2014, 02:26:37 pm
And I'm speaking from experience using rolls where I find the last few feet of a roll is not usable. Since these rolls are shorter, that just makes the percentage of throw away higher. I'd rather see 40' rolls rather than shorter ones

The thickness of the two paper layers is approximately that of 175 gsm paper and the paper is quite hard, that combo can not be compared with a paper like the soft German Etching 310 grams where the edge of the first winding on the core will emboss the second and third winding. I have no roll here but I think it will not be a real issue.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: alain on November 09, 2014, 02:48:35 pm
The thickness of the two paper layers is approximately that of 175 gsm paper and the paper is quite hard, that combo can not be compared with a paper like the soft German Etching 310 grams where the edge of the first winding on the core will emboss the second and third winding. I have no roll here but I think it will not be a real issue.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

Ernst

For me it is also mostly a heavy paper  (Harman Gloss Baryta by Hahnemühle), but I also see an embossement from spiral inside the core itself up to two windings.  The paper edge can be "cut" out with some positioning and the parts between could be used for "smaller" prints.  The spirals are more problematic.

Hopefully the Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin doesn't has it.  I suppose Gary can see it if it's there.

Alain
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 10, 2014, 02:30:20 am
Two more questions :

Till which size is it -safely- possible to do a strech mount?  I've seen the picture of hanging stretch mounted photo's in a exposition way up this thread, are the not very fragile?

In one of you're video's you "glu" them to a clear pmma sheet with an diluted acrylic "glu", can you give information on it?  The paper is so thin i fear most products would come thru the paper.

Alain

Stretch mounting is a beautiful technique - but you do need to be careful. As I had them in an exhibition, there was no problem, but mounted on a wall I would put the image into another frame behind the mounted image and without glass or with glass depending on the amount of protection you feel is necessary according to where it is hung. certainly stretched you get the translucent feeling which you don't get in other framing techniques. Sizes I have framed like this are 24" x 36" no problem. The media width is 24" off the roll.

The acrylic method I was using last year in the Epson Video for acrylic or polycarbonate transparency is now replaced by a dry method with Neutral PH double sided tape as they use in framing shops. Covers the whole of the back of the print and laminator does the work. Nice effect. I recently put an artists large 1m x 40 cm on prepared birch ply and used the acrylic medium diluted 10% distilled water then slid the image into place after having first dampened the image with a spray. The spray gave the paper a chance to stretch before placing it and it dried perfectly flat. This is a craft technique - as as I have spent 40 years in craft - I have the ability to do this where others might be all fingers and thumbs. Takes time to learn skills!  ;)
Gary
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: garywornell on November 10, 2014, 02:37:23 am
And I'm speaking from experience using rolls where I find the last few feet of a roll is not usable. Since these rolls are shorter, that just makes the percentage of throw away higher. I'd rather see 40' rolls rather than shorter ones
Thanks - I'll pass this on to Epson - good idea. That waste is always a factor - but if you have only one time wast on 40" you have much less loss.
Gary
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: alain on November 10, 2014, 04:48:15 am
Stretch mounting is a beautiful technique - but you do need to be careful. As I had them in an exhibition, there was no problem, but mounted on a wall I would put the image into another frame behind the mounted image and without glass or with glass depending on the amount of protection you feel is necessary according to where it is hung. certainly stretched you get the translucent feeling which you don't get in other framing techniques. Sizes I have framed like this are 24" x 36" no problem. The media width is 24" off the roll.

The acrylic method I was using last year in the Epson Video for acrylic or polycarbonate transparency is now replaced by a dry method with Neutral PH double sided tape as they use in framing shops. Covers the whole of the back of the print and laminator does the work. Nice effect. I recently put an artists large 1m x 40 cm on prepared birch ply and used the acrylic medium diluted 10% distilled water then slid the image into place after having first dampened the image with a spray. The spray gave the paper a chance to stretch before placing it and it dried perfectly flat. This is a craft technique - as as I have spent 40 years in craft - I have the ability to do this where others might be all fingers and thumbs. Takes time to learn skills!  ;)
Gary

Thanks.

I manually dry mounted before, but 34gr could be a challenge.  Craft techniques are indeed a skill.
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Ken Doo on November 21, 2014, 12:34:18 am
Epson's new Japanese Kozo Paper Thin------seems like a really really nice unique fine art paper.  I just received a sample from Gary, and it has done nothing but increased my yearning for more.  The first thing to cross my mind when placing this paper in hand is that it's soft. It feels good.  That may be a weird first impression, but it has a really nice fine art tactile feel.  It has a fine subtle texture.  And yes, it is thin. With the backer in place, you would think it is just another heavy fine art paper, and indeed you could even leave the backer on. You probably wouldn't even know to pull the backer off without knowing before hand.  I had a bit of trouble peeling off the backer on the small piece that I was given and not sure if I did it correctly.

I do want to try printing on this new paper!  I hope US distributors can sell this new Epson paper.

 :)  Ken
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on November 21, 2014, 04:17:27 am
The Epson Kozo 34 gsm is added to the Oriental paper map of SpectrumViz.

Where you describe the paper as being soft I find the almost glossy smooth backside of the 34 gsm Kozo itself a bit uncharacteristic for an oriental paper (in the tactile sense). Comparing the spectral plots of the Awagami Kozo Thin 70 gsm with the Epson Kozo Thin 34gsm the translucency is identical. I did not expect that considering the weight difference. Both sheets on top of a white sheet with black text give similar readability so transparency is also similar. I guess the inkjet coating of the Epson Kozo Thin 34 gsm is more opaque than that of the Awagami 70 gsm Kozo. Have not tested printing so can not compare print results.



Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2014 update, 680+ inkjet media white spectral plots
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: deanwork on November 21, 2014, 04:11:04 pm
Just received my sample.

Thank you Gary!

I like it. I wish the hell I could get some to test it. It's been out over a year. I wonder what is taking them so long to send this to distributors?

Ernst, did you notice a dmax difference between the thicker Awagami or Hiromi coated kozo sheets and this Epson? Although I don't see much of a color gamut difference between the Epson kozo and what I've used before, I do notice a much tighter dot pattern and greater sharpness while still looking very organic with a beautiful surface. But I've yet to test the japanese versions of the kozo with inkjet receptor coating.

 I'm about to print some of the Hiromi coated for inkjet media this week and I can report back what I see from it. The Epson sample they sent me doesn't look like kozo on the back as traditional mulberry papers do, it's much slicker, but that doesn't bother me because the way I would show it nobody would be seeing the back. It would also be quite nice in a portfolio that one could hold in your hands up to the light.

john


Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: davidh202 on November 21, 2014, 11:54:11 pm
Received mine also looks great -anxious to get some to test.
 Am going to ask my distributor- ATLEX  to prod Epson USA  to order some  ...
Thanks Gary!
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: Jim Metzger on November 22, 2014, 10:14:10 am
Love the sample Gary was gracious enough to send. My first delivery from Kathmandu!

I cannot speak to the technical properties (longevity, Dmax, etc.) of this paper as many who have posted ( I have been using and trust Epson papers for 15 years) but I can tell you it is luxurious to the hand and eye. It is the closest thing to handmade paper for inkjet printing that I have seen. The randomness of the surface texture and opacity of the paper is very much like handmade rice paper used for Shoji screens. Epson really must consider bringing this paper to the US, it is a unique product with a wide range of use. I print for myself and several artists who will want this paper ASAP.

The subtle texture and transparency are beautiful and even if mounted on an opaque backer it is still visually arresting. The color saturation and contrast appears to be of a higher level than most of the matte papers I have seen.

I am also an Architect I believe that this paper would be beautiful as a display medium, front lit during the day and backlit at night.

I will be discussing the importation of this paper with my local supplier, Professional Graphics in Elmsford NY. in the hope we might give everyone the opportunity to use this paper in the US.

Thank you Gary,

Regards

Jim
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: MHMG on November 24, 2014, 10:59:03 am
Gary, thank you for making the effort to send me a sample.  i received it last Friday. You should be very proud of your role in the bringing this fascinating inkjet media to market.

I have a very favorable first impression of the  EJKPT paper. It is quite a unique product with beautiful tactile delicacy yet superior scuff resistance, IMHO, than just about any other matte finish fine art paper I've tried. Color gamut and Dmax is first rate on the sample I received.  I trust that Epson has done it's due diligence with accelerated thermal testing of the polymeric coating(s) on the verso and that they are non yellowing over time. Overall, I can see many creative applications for this paper.

I don't have any personal influence with Epson management, but I will certainly give my dealer a nudge to try to help convince Epson to bring it to the US market in the near future.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: rxchaos on December 05, 2014, 03:04:46 pm
I printed a B&W and color image on the Epson Japanese Kozo Paper yesterday using an Epson7900, the factory icc profile for the paper and with the media type set to "UltraSmoothFineArt" paper. With the backing paper still on, the colors appeared rich and the blacks deep.  I removed the backing and the paper has a beautiful texture and a very nice translucency. 

When the backing is removed the translucent quality of the paper dulls the saturation a little.  I wonder whether slightly over saturating the colors might help; or alternatively create a custom icc profile (i1Profiler+i1Pro2) and increase the "saturation" value in i1Profiler's Perceptual Rendering to compensate for the decreased saturation.

And, if I were to create a custom icc profile I assume I should profile the paper after I've removed the backing. 

Any suggestions Gary?

Thank you.

-c
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: william on December 09, 2014, 04:20:40 pm
I may have missed this earlier in this thread, but from where can one actually buy this paper?
Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: rxchaos on December 09, 2014, 04:22:25 pm
I may have missed this earlier in this thread, but from where can one actually buy this paper?

I got the paper in the UK from an Epson distributor.

Title: Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
Post by: william on December 09, 2014, 04:40:17 pm
Thanks.  I'm in the US, though, so I guess I'm out of luck unless I want to pay overseas shipping...