Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: Hans Kruse on October 07, 2014, 10:30:18 am
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Now we have had an update to Lightroom every year in May/June although some years probably not since we are at 5.6 since the start in 2007. I see lots of announcements from Adobe and mobile stuff which is nice but what about Lightroom?
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From Wikipedia:
Lightroom 1 beta: 29 Jan 2007, Release Feb 2007 (I think)
Lightroom 2 beta: April 2008, Release July 2008
Lightroom 3 beta: October 2009, Release June 2010
Lightroom 4 beta: Jan 2012, Release March 2012
Lightroom 5 beta: April 2013, Release June 2013
This ties with my credit card records for the release versions. In other words: the interval between major releases varies from 15 months to nearly 2 years. And the beta period varies from 2 months to 8 months.
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It is just around the corner, for sure. Not that I know how far we are from the corner, though! :D
There are some very nice improvements on camera raw that are missing from the current lightroom and this is an obvious evidence that something is on the oven.
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Since ACR 8.7 was released a couple days ago, it seems likely there will soon be an LR 5.7, which would push back the schedule on LR 6.
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Since ACR 8.7 was released a couple days ago, it seems likely there will soon be an LR 5.7, which would push back the schedule on LR 6.
Not necessarily. There will be an LR 5.7 in a few weeks when we get ACR 8.7, but these are maintenance releases largely to support new cameras an lenses. At some time in the coming months (but unrelated to that) there is likely to be a beta for LR 6 followed by several (or many) months of beta testing, and there could even be an LR5.8 by the time LR6 is released.
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Since ACR 8.7 was released a couple days ago, it seems likely there will soon be an LR 5.7, which would push back the schedule on LR 6.
I don't see how this follows at all. Engineering teams are pretty much always adding small enhancements/fixes to the current version of a product, while simultaneously working on the next version of the product.
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I suspect that users of the CC rental package will see future Lightroom updates long before they are released to mere perpetual licence mortals like us.
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I suspect that users of the CC rental package will see future Lightroom updates long before they are released to mere perpetual licence mortals like us.
I doubt that. I think we will see a generally available beta, much as we have seen before. The consumer testing has worked well for Adobe and I can see no reason for them to not continue it.
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Do you think 6is in the Cloud?!
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No, but there are cloud-enabled features (LRmobile and web).
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Thanks for the responses. I can see Adobe buys many other places so maybe Lightroom is a bit on the back burner, but I surely do look forward to what could be in LR6.
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I don't care about features, just speed. And as Schewe has said, a retina large screen will only slow it down more. Exporting jpegs is painfully slow. Isn't there a way to use the already generated previews like c1 does to export jpegs quickly. I frequently have to do a 1000-2000 at a time and LR is hours where c1 is minutes with d800 files. Also, ingesting a card is crazy slow. Why is it so much faster to copy it to the desktop and then import it yet c1 flies when importing from the same cards? Also, building previews is way to slow. If feels like it's not trying to take over the whole machine as cores are never close to half used.......SPEED please.
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I don't care about features, just speed. And as Schewe has said, a retina large screen will only slow it down more. Exporting jpegs is painfully slow. Isn't there a way to use the already generated previews like c1 does to export jpegs quickly. I frequently have to do a 1000-2000 at a time and LR is hours where c1 is minutes with d800 files. Also, ingesting a card is crazy slow. Why is it so much faster to copy it to the desktop and then import it yet c1 flies when importing from the same cards? Also, building previews is way to slow. If feels like it's not trying to take over the whole machine as cores are never close to half used.......SPEED please.
It is possible to export from smart previews which is about 3x faster than from RAW from what I measured on my MBP 15" late 2013 model (2,3Ghz i7 quad core). In order to export from smart previews you need to have the RAW files on an external drive. First generate the smart previews which takes about 1,2 second per D810 RAW file and then export which is about 0,8 second per fil (TIFF or JPG) but they are not full resolution (2178x1158). Full export of D810 files were about 5 seconds per RAW file running two exports in parallel. For a single export it was about 6,3 seconds per RAW file. These exports were to full resolution TIFF files. Some files were edited and others only minimally and they all had lens corrections applied. So if your exports are to a resolution smaller than what the smart previews provide there is a solution for you that is 3x faster. With two parallel exports all cores were fully loaded as much as they can. Remember a quad core i7 will show 8 cores in the task manager on the Mac but the 8 cores are not real cores and can never be fully loaded.
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It is just around the corner, for sure. Not that I know how far we are from the corner, though! :D
Bad idea to even speculate these days. And the old saying holds true: Those that know can't and will not say. Those that don't know have a lot to say, much of it not worth listening to.
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Thanks Hans, will give it a try.
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So once I have created smart previews is there a trick to speeding up exports to jpeg or do I just use the standard export dialog box and chose pixels and quality. Seems like there should be a setting so it outputs them to already created sizes?
Thanks again
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So once I have created smart previews is there a trick to speeding up exports to jpeg or do I just use the standard export dialog box and chose pixels and quality. Seems like there should be a setting so it outputs them to already created sizes?
Thanks again
I forgot to mention one important thing. After you generated the smart previews, you need to unmount the external drive. Otherwise the exports will be done on the RAWs and full resolution. When the external drive is not mounted the exports will be done on the smart previews.
The resolution I mentioned is the maximum you can output when exporting from smart previews. But you can resize to a smaller output size if your JPG's are just intended for selection with final edit later. If that is what you are doing and the reason for large number of JPG's exported then you could attach the external drive again and export those selected. Another thought if this is your scenario is to use Lightroom mobile on an iPad. when you sync with the LR Mobile it is doen via smart previews automatically and you don't need to export anything. Just create a collection with the photos and then mark the collection for synch with LR mobile. Then in LR mobile on the iPad you can pick and rate photos and this goes back into LR on the Mac/PC and you can then select the ones chosen for final edit and publishing. Does this make sense?
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ARGGGGG such hacky workarounds......ADOBE, please help. Should just be an option in the export dialog box......
Thanks though Hans. Not sure than will work on a day in day out job basis.....Good to know it is possible though
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ARGGGGG such hacky workarounds......ADOBE, please help. Should just be an option in the export dialog box......
Thanks though Hans. Not sure than will work on a day in day out job basis.....Good to know it is possible though
Well, well, I spent a lifetime dealing with software :) Now just in a different way.
But please tell us what is your workflow since you need to export that many JPG's. Was my theory right or not?
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I'm an advertising photographer that shoots people. Normal day is 1000-4000 images and clients want to walk with jpegs at the end of the day. If we get done shooting at 6 the difference between c1 and LR is me leaving the set at 645 or 10 pm.......
I shoot to a MBPr or a iMac with SSD so I always shoot to internal for the speed and about half is tethered. I backup throughout the day but prefer for speed and stability to shoot to internal.
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I think shooting jpg for you is a much better option than RAW and
LR.
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??? You're kidding right.
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??? You're kidding right.
With this number there cannot be any editing done anyway so why shoot raw?
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Rogan, exactly which C1 commands are you comparing LR against? I know C1 moderately but don't know which menu you're running.
One thing you can try is to set off a series of exports. So instead of a single 1000 image export, export four batches of 250, without waiting for each batch to finish. When I last tested, this was faster. But if the difference with C1 is as great as you say, I doubt it would close the gap. And in any case I bet Photo Mechanic would be the better tool for the job.
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I think shooting jpg for you is a much better option than RAW and
LR.
I would tend to agree ... there are very legitimate reasons for shooting RAW ... but ... if you are shooting high volume, under fixed and controlled lighting conditions ... and ... your client is expecting to receive jpeg files immediately following the shoot ... there really is little reason to waste all the time, energy and space for RAW. Especially when you are using cameras that can create a 36MP image ... Heck I've know wedding shooters that pounded out millions of jpegs from 6-8MP cameras that would rival most folks shooting RAW.
For myself, I shoot RAW on almost every job, except when I have the criteria mentioned above (high volume, controlled shoot, immediate delivery) then I shoot jpeg ...
If you are getting it right before you trip the shutter, and the client is expecting jpeg anyway ... there is little need to go to all the trouble.
I also agree with John ... sending multiple smaller, simultaneous batches to export will speed things up. Unfortunately, in Lightroom, export is not multi-threaded so as to allow users to continue work on another project while the first project is exporting.
Too bad they don't allow for a preference setting to devote all resources to a large export when needed.
Another idea is not to wait until the very end of the day to export the entire job, export smaller batches as you go along ...
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I also agree with John ... sending multiple smaller, simultaneous batches to export will speed things up.
I'd just be cautious about that, Butch. Rogan should certainly try simultaneous batches as they saved 60% of the total export time when I tested it (http://lightroomsolutions.com/simultaneous-exports/), but I suspect it's less advantageous now.
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I'd just be cautious about that, Butch. Rogan should certainly try simultaneous batches as they saved 60% of the total export time when I tested it (http://lightroomsolutions.com/simultaneous-exports/), but I suspect it's less advantageous now.
We routinely upload event shoots of 1,500 to 4,000 jpegs to our web server for the online shopping cart ... multiple batches save as much time in v5.6 as they did a few years back when you and others first pointed out the benefit ...
It would still be nice if Adobe could improve performance overall ...
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We routinely upload event shoots of 1,500 to 4,000 jpegs to our web server for the online shopping cart ... multiple batches save as much time in v5.6 as they did a few years back when you and others first pointed out the benefit ...
Thanks, Butch, that's good to know.
John
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... certainly try simultaneous batches as they saved 60% of the total export time when I tested it (http://lightroomsolutions.com/simultaneous-exports/)...
simultaneous batches ?
custom plug-in ?
how does this integrate with LR / Mogrify 2
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As I wrote in the article, I was playing with some code. I know it led to a bulk DNG export plug-in that I use myself, but I don't know if I kept the code in a generic form. I'll take a look. Plug-ins often fight eachother though, and filenaming can be an issue with batches (eg if you want sequence number filenaming).
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John,
An interesting concept. I've played around with Mogrify2 and can't see any kind of bulk export feature and I would have thought that interfacing with the LR 'right-click' dialogue box and it's various plug-ins would be 'difficult' if not impossible.
But how about the ability to highlight multiple folders in the Library and then simply bulk export the folders and their contents, keeping the folder names but to a different location and to a format of choice (DNG, jpeg, tiff ) invoking DNG converter, LR export, Mogrify2 etc as required..
M
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But how about the ability to highlight multiple folders in the Library and then simply bulk export the folders and their contents, keeping the folder names but to a different location and to a format of choice (DNG, jpeg, tiff ) invoking DNG converter, LR export, Mogrify2 etc as required..
Essentially that's what my own plug-in does. The initial "play" code broke up the export into batches of 100, but the plug-in's job breaks up the export into one batch per folder. I'm not saying this kind of plug-in couldn't invoke another plugin like Mogrify, but I'll try to give you an idea of the issues. Where the two plug-ins are both export plug-ins, you're going to have to choose which plug-in controls the export process (think about the Export To drop down box at the top of the Export dialog) or modify my plug-in to send the correct instructions to the external Mogrify program. In another situation the other plug-in might be a post-processing filter and will be expecting to process new images at the location where Lightroom exported them - no good if my plug-in has already moved them into a sub-folder matching the original folder structure. Again one could change the code, but it does what I want, nothing more.
John
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John, I understand the potential issues which is why I mentioned simply .. the idea being to avoid any post-conversion options, filters, renaming etc
Any chance of publishing a downloadable version of your plug-in?
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I would tend to agree ... there are very legitimate reasons for shooting RAW ... but ... if you are shooting high volume, under fixed and controlled lighting conditions ... and ... your client is expecting to receive jpeg files immediately following the shoot ... there really is little reason to waste all the time, energy and space for RAW. Especially when you are using cameras that can create a 36MP image ... Heck I've know wedding shooters that pounded out millions of jpegs from 6-8MP cameras that would rival most folks shooting RAW.
For myself, I shoot RAW on almost every job, except when I have the criteria mentioned above (high volume, controlled shoot, immediate delivery) then I shoot jpeg ...
If you are getting it right before you trip the shutter, and the client is expecting jpeg anyway ... there is little need to go to all the trouble.
I also agree with John ... sending multiple smaller, simultaneous batches to export will speed things up. Unfortunately, in Lightroom, export is not multi-threaded so as to allow users to continue work on another project while the first project is exporting.
Too bad they don't allow for a preference setting to devote all resources to a large export when needed.
Another idea is not to wait until the very end of the day to export the entire job, export smaller batches as you go along ...
Guys,
The jpegs are for editing only. The client takes them home, edits and sometimes shows them to clients for approval. Then the raw is retouched. The finals are for major billboard and ad campaigns that have tons of post work. Jpeg isn't an option. Period. In the end one or two images is all that is chosen. Sometimes more but usually one or 2.
As to export during the day, you are at your clients command. Sometimes at the end of the day they want to add tweaks to color, contrast etc and then get them exported. Every job is different. What I do know is LR could be improved and be better than it is......LR has some advantages, C1 has some advantages. I was posting here as some Adobe people do read this and I wanted to catch their ear as to what I need(maybe not everyone else)
It just seems to me if LR is already making the previews why not be able to export them as oppose to go back to the raw. C1 has a feature that I can go from the raw or just export a quick jpeg from the previews.
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Any chance of publishing a downloadable version of your plug-in?
Probably not as it's pretty rough and just does something specific for my own needs.
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I understand - but thanks for the input, anyway.
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I'm an advertising photographer that shoots people.
Pretty sure there are laws against that. :D
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Hello,
that's all very interesting, but Hans initial question ' where is Lightroom 6' is still not answered !
And I add that I've got the feeling that the guys who should know like Jeff, Madmanchan, Thomas Knoll, etc. make themselves scarce. At least it's been a long time since I have read anything written by them.
Robert
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Robert, what exactly are you expecting??
Anyone who really knows is bound by a non-disclosure agreement and everybody else is just speculating - pissing in the breeze so to speak.
There is no answer to this question.
Tony Jay
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Quite. Those that know won't say and those that say don't know.
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Hello,
that's all very interesting, but Hans initial question ' where is Lightroom 6' is still not answered !
And I add that I've got the feeling that the guys who should know like Jeff, Madmanchan, Thomas Knoll, etc. make themselves scarce. At least it's been a long time since I have read anything written by them.
Robert
Unsubstantiated reports indicate that they have been deposed by a junta of generals and are being held incommunicado ....oh wait, that's Kim Jung Un.
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And I add that I've got the feeling that the guys who should know like Jeff, Madmanchan, Thomas Knoll, etc. make themselves scarce. At least it's been a long time since I have read anything written by them.
Well, I can't say anything about Thomas & Eric but, in my case I just got back from a 2 week photo trip to the South West with my daughter. And, while I saw this thread, I wasn't particularly interested in posting because, well, I know when LR 6 will be released and no, I can't say anything about it. Neither could Eric nor Thomas.
So, you all are just gonna have to wait...
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Schewe is right, a usual.
But I can state the answer definitively: Lightroom 6 will appear when it gets here, and not a minute sooner or later. :D
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Guys,
The jpegs are for editing only. The client takes them home, edits and sometimes shows them to clients for approval. Then the raw is retouched. The finals are for major billboard and ad campaigns that have tons of post work. Jpeg isn't an option. Period. In the end one or two images is all that is chosen. Sometimes more but usually one or 2.
As to export during the day, you are at your clients command. Sometimes at the end of the day they want to add tweaks to color, contrast etc and then get them exported. Every job is different. What I do know is LR could be improved and be better than it is......LR has some advantages, C1 has some advantages. I was posting here as some Adobe people do read this and I wanted to catch their ear as to what I need(maybe not everyone else)
It just seems to me if LR is already making the previews why not be able to export them as oppose to go back to the raw. C1 has a feature that I can go from the raw or just export a quick jpeg from the previews.
RAW + jpeg not an option? Other than storage space increase it seems like this is exactly what a RAW + jpeg approach to shooting would be good for.
Rand
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Why all the stramash about a release date for Lightroom 6?
Surely any sane person would prefer a much longer series of free decimal point upgrades to 5.6 rather than an integer update for which we will be expected to pay some exhorbitant price.
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Why all the stramash about a release date for Lightroom 6?
Surely any sane person would prefer a much longer series of free decimal point upgrades to 5.6 rather than an integer update for which we will be expected to pay some exhorbitant price.
Well, probably because:
1) Updates to 5.x include almost no new functionality. They include new camera support, and they include bug fixes, but rarely do they include lots of new features.
2) It won't really cost me a cent. I get Lightroom and Photoshop for $10/month. I expect with Lightroom 6 comes out, I'll keep paying $10/month and just get it. I know I know... buy versus rent yadda yadda ... it's cheap.
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No problem, Jeff...but do let us know when you next schedule a weeks visit with Michael and Chris in Canada or Mexico, won't you? ;)
Well, I can't say anything about Thomas & Eric but, in my case I just got back from a 2 week photo trip to the South West with my daughter. And, while I saw this thread, I wasn't particularly interested in posting because, well, I know when LR 6 will be released and no, I can't say anything about it. Neither could Eric nor Thomas.
So, you all are just gonna have to wait...
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RAW + jpeg not an option? Other than storage space increase it seems like this is exactly what a RAW + jpeg approach to shooting would be good for.
My thoughts exactly.
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My thoughts exactly.
Not to mention which the jpeg's probably do not even need to be large jpeg either so even further reducing the size.
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No problem, Jeff...but do let us know when you next schedule a weeks visit with Michael and Chris in Canada or Mexico, won't you? ;)
We'll see...and the odds are it'll be me and Kevin and not Mike. And it won't be in oh' Canada but more likely here in Chicago and/or Indianapolis...just sayin'.
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We'll see...and the odds are it'll be me and Kevin and not Mike. And it won't be in oh' Canada but more likely here in Chicago and/or Indianapolis...just sayin'.
Isn't Kevin just ne travelling to Chicago ? I've read such thing a few days ago....
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Yes, Kevin was in Chicago. Short and productive meeting with Jeff on future projects and some fun time. Also, personal time, as I had a son graduate Navy boot camp. And, I spent a few early mornings taking photos. Spent one morning with one of Luminous-Landscape's readers. What a nice morning.
Now I have one day to pack before heading to Scotland to lead a sold out workshop there.
Kevin
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Now I have one day to pack before heading to Scotland to lead a sold out workshop there.
You should pay the Peak District a visit sometime, if you've not been there yet.
This is a short bike ride from where I live in Sheffield and the lovely countryside is in fact why I live in Sheffield. Greenest city in Europe. ;D