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Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: Alexander Svet on September 29, 2014, 01:06:29 pm

Title: Capture One 8 review
Post by: Alexander Svet on September 29, 2014, 01:06:29 pm
(http://captureoneblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/MainReview2.jpg) (http://captureoneblog.com/capture-one-8-review/)

Hello all, I've done my Capture One 8 review http://captureoneblog.com/capture-one-8-review/
There’s no doubt about it, 8 version release promises to be the greatest update in the history of Capture One, with a new processing engine, improved HDR, new catalog features, retouch tools, new layer abilities and film grain imitation. Capture One has now become faster, more powerful and much more stable.
Capture One 7 was a really good RAW converter, but with the release of version 8 it has now become brilliant.
Share your opinion!
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: makaphoto on September 29, 2014, 01:55:04 pm
Thank you Alexander.
A nice wrap up of the new features.
Martin
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: Rhossydd on September 29, 2014, 04:03:38 pm
and much more stable.
How bad was it before ?
It's a good round up of the features and some of them work extremely well, but stability ?? not here.
I've only been trying to use 8 for a few days (having registered an upgrade to get some of the new features Lightroom lacks) and it's been freezing regularly and the catalogue databases keep getting corrupted and failing. W7 Pro 64

Maybe x.0 issues that will get resolved in a future bug fix update, but a real tease at the moment.
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: gdh on September 29, 2014, 07:56:14 pm
Good article--very helpful.  One question however--could you clarify your statement under "Tethered Functionality"
Live View mode now support capture ability.
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 30, 2014, 01:52:50 am
Thanks, interesting.

There are many capabilities of C1 Pro 8 that I don't know well enough yet, your document will be a good base to dive into those.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 30, 2014, 03:51:44 am
Good article--very helpful.  One question however--could you clarify your statement under "Tethered Functionality"
Live View mode now support capture ability.


Hi Dennis,

Meaning you can trigger capture whilst in Live View mode.

David

Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 30, 2014, 03:52:04 am
How bad was it before ?
It's a good round up of the features and some of them work extremely well, but stability ?? not here.
I've only been trying to use 8 for a few days (having registered an upgrade to get some of the new features Lightroom lacks) and it's been freezing regularly and the catalogue databases keep getting corrupted and failing. W7 Pro 64

Maybe x.0 issues that will get resolved in a future bug fix update, but a real tease at the moment.

Have you made a support case?
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: Alexander Svet on September 30, 2014, 04:31:46 am
Quote
Good article--very helpful.  One question however--could you clarify your statement under "Tethered Functionality"
Live View mode now support capture ability.

Now you can capture images with Live View mode turned on. But unfortunately only by "Capture" button in C1, camera shutter button doesn't work (with my Nikon D800).

Quote
It's a good round up of the features and some of them work extremely well, but stability ?? not here.
Yes, there are some bugs, but on the whole C1 8 is much stable than C1 7. And of course 8.x.x updates are really needed.
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: jeremyrh on September 30, 2014, 05:00:43 pm
Well, congratulations on getting C1 to work so you can review it. My copy just sits and bounces in the dock until I can be bothered to Force Quit it. Life is too short to debug other peoples' software !!
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: Rhossydd on September 30, 2014, 05:41:19 pm
Have you made a support case?
I've filled in the "It doesn't work" report dialogue that's popped up sometimes, but life's too short to waste too much time writing up the faults with it. I'm not sure I want to invest huge amounts of time and energy into trying to make it work perfectly for me as from what I've seen so far it's still not good enough to replace Lightroom for my work. I'll just resort to it when it's tool set has something to offer that LR can't yet match.

Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: kers on September 30, 2014, 06:18:33 pm
I tried C1-8 for a bit but found the sharpness filter not on the level of ACR... really ugly in a way
Is that me or is it the program...?
The same problem i have with Nikons NXD- i am using a d810..
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: gdh on September 30, 2014, 07:10:32 pm
I've filled in the "It doesn't work" report dialogue that's popped up sometimes, but life's too short to waste too much time writing up the faults with it. I'm not sure I want to invest huge amounts of time and energy into trying to make it work perfectly for me as from what I've seen so far it's still not good enough to replace Lightroom for my work. I'll just resort to it when it's tool set has something to offer that LR can't yet match.


Well, you sound quite important, but a wee bit negative
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 01, 2014, 06:31:10 am
I've filled in the "It doesn't work" report dialogue that's popped up sometimes, but life's too short to waste too much time writing up the faults with it. I'm not sure I want to invest huge amounts of time and energy into trying to make it work perfectly for me as from what I've seen so far it's still not good enough to replace Lightroom for my work. I'll just resort to it when it's tool set has something to offer that LR can't yet match.



In the time it has taken you to make these forum posts, you could have contacted support and very likely had a resolution.

We aim to respond to cases within 24 hours and normally better that by a long way.

You can contact support here..

http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain/ContactSupport.aspx

David

Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: Rhossydd on October 01, 2014, 06:47:54 am
In the time it has taken you to make these forum posts, you could have contacted support and very likely had a resolution.
We aim to respond to cases within 24 hours and normally better that by a long way.
Glib comments like this make you loose a lot of credibility.

Detailing all the conditions and actions I made, even if I could accurately remember them all, before CO crashed or trashed it's database(s) would take considerably more time than the couple of minutes I've spent contributing here.

It's just not important enough to waste more time on.
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 01, 2014, 09:53:13 am
I'll just resort to it when it's tool set has something to offer that LR can't yet match.

I dropped C1 once I lost the ability to launch it to work with a single raw from an external image browser w/o all the hassles introduced in v7 associated with catalogs/sessions, but at least Sony color transform profiles in v8 seems to better (subjectively) vs what Adobe ships (no matter how I modify them), so I make a return... for Sony cameras... I still wish P1 to enable the option to work with a single raw like normal DAM-less converters do.
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: Alexander Svet on October 01, 2014, 10:04:27 am
I dropped C1 once I lost the ability to launch it to work with a single raw from an external image browser w/o all the hassles introduced in v7 associated with catalogs/sessions, but at least Sony color transform profiles in v8 seems to better (subjectively) vs what Adobe ships (no matter how I modify them), so I make a return... for Sony cameras... I still wish P1 to enable the option to work with a single raw like normal DAM-less converters do.

You can create a single session once and then use it all the time for any images without even importing them. Just use the build-in (for sessions) file manager to open a folder with the images on your HDD.
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 01, 2014, 10:10:59 am
You can create a single session once and then use it

I know and I did ( http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=93485.msg763088#msg763088 ), but thx... it was still a user unfriendly move by P1 as if they think that people who are dead set on not using C1 for any DAM are somehow going to... we are not, so make us happy and give us an option to work as we like (= create whatever sessions behind the scenes automatically and keep that from bothering us)
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 01, 2014, 10:15:49 am
Glib comments like this make you loose a lot of credibility.

Detailing all the conditions and actions I made, even if I could accurately remember them all, before CO crashed or trashed it's database(s) would take considerably more time than the couple of minutes I've spent contributing here.

It's just not important enough to waste more time on.

I don't believe I was being Glib at all.

Normally a crash report is enough and support will assist you to do so, even offer to screen share with you if need be.

We have a great support department so please use them!  Thats all I am saying.

David

Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: Rhossydd on October 01, 2014, 11:18:59 am
I dropped C1 once I lost the ability to launch it to work with a single raw from an external image browser
I see the smartest way to work is to create a catalogue to import images into you want to work on, even if you only want to work on a few images at a time. The import process in C8 is very fast, so it's hardly any slower than loading a single file.
Then you can return to them and re-work/export them whenever you like in the future. Using parametric editing like this is surely one of the great advances in digital photography workflow, rather than being stuck with having to work at individual images.
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 01, 2014, 11:57:47 am
I see the smartest way to work is to create a catalogue to import images into you want to work on, even if you only want to work on a few images at a time. The import process in C8 is very fast, so it's hardly any slower than loading a single file.

nope, the smartest /for "us"/ way is the way like ACR works - you do not bother with "creating a catalogue", you designated once what do you want about sidecars, etc and forget it.

Then you can return to them and re-work/export them whenever you like in the future.

somehow I can perfectly do this with ACR, with SilkyPix, with RPP, with Iridient, with whatever... and all that w/o "catalogs" or "sessions"... and no - I do not mind having "sidecar" files.
 
Using parametric editing like this is surely one of the great advances in digital photography workflow, rather than being stuck with having to work at individual images.

dear, every raw converter is parametric... every single one (even for example the old versions of ACR that were modifying some raw files / the content, of DNG, like destroying the embedded thumbnail written by camera's firmware / w/o warning), you will be hard pressed to name one that is not /I dare you/
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: Rhossydd on October 01, 2014, 12:18:40 pm
I do not mind having "sidecar" files.
The problem with that is how many different side car files do you end up with ? One for each converter ? Or can one .xmp contain multiple different settings for each raw converter ?
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 01, 2014, 12:42:40 pm
The problem with that is how many different side car files do you end up with ?

there is no problem really.

I do not really care how many as I do not really move the OS files one by one "by hand" within the tools that I use to manage those (and I do not want neither C1 nor LR to be involved into anything other than being a raw converter)... so my sidecars or subfolders (from all converters) are safe and sound just as your C1/LR databases/catalogs.

One for each converter ? Or can one .xmp contain multiple different settings for each raw converter ?

I am yet to encounter a conflict and I do use many raw converters at once for a same set of photos from one event...
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 02, 2014, 06:00:39 am
In short, the benefit of a catalog and or session is..

1.  Organisation  (i.e only the best assets are in the catalog / session in the 1st place)
2.  Fast search and filtering.  The Database is searched not raw file parameters so results are returned instantly.
3.  Virtual organisation in the form of Albums, Projects etc, where RAW files can reside in more than one location without the need for duplication
4.  Variants / Versions of the same file without the need for duplication
5.  Speed

That being said, Capture One will work just fine as a file browser too.
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 02, 2014, 09:11:07 am
That being said, Capture One will work just fine as a file browser too.

David, you don't get the point - I am not browsing files in C1 at all - I am using some external program (which for me does the way better job for that purpose) and I just want to be able to start C1 with a raw file name as a parameter w/o a hassle to deal w/ sessions or catalogs, that's it...

why don't you (P1) just enable a mode (as an option - nobody takes anything away from catalogs/session loving folks) when C1 will create, whatever it wants to create, behind the scenes... it already can create a "CaptureOne" subfolder with cache, etc automatically - great, give us an option (again - just an option, nobody is taking anything away from those who needs sessions or catalogs) to automatically create some default session inside that folder w/o any UI dialogs bothering us when C1 is invoked that way and spare people who wants to use C1 just as a converter, not as a DAM, not as a browser, not as something else - but just as a raw converter, from unnecessary irritations...


take Adobe for example - LR is a big market, however there is a significant amount of people who do not use LR, but use ACR only... and Adobe caters to that populace as well... nobody is against P1s giving C1 "LR" features to compete against LR, but why at the same time you try to inflict a pain those who still wants to use C1 as "ACR" beats me...unless you intentionally trying to create your own captive user market vs LR (once people invest a great deal of time using your software as a DAM, etc they might be less likely to jump a ship no matter what migration options are offered by competition)... but then again you forget that there are "ACR" folks around - we are not going to use C1 as a DAM, so instead of capturing us you irritate us.
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 02, 2014, 09:21:09 am
In short, the benefit of a catalog and or session is..

1.  Organisation  (i.e only the best assets are in the catalog / session in the 1st place)
2.  Fast search and filtering.  The Database is searched not raw file parameters so results are returned instantly.
3.  Virtual organisation in the form of Albums, Projects etc, where RAW files can reside in more than one location without the need for duplication


thank you, done outside of C1

4.  Variants / Versions of the same file without the need for duplication

sidecar file approach is perfectly capable to store variants and versions

5.  Speed

you can have your cache w/o sessions or catalogs
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 02, 2014, 02:44:50 pm
David, you don't get the point - I am not browsing files in C1 at all - I am using some external program (which for me does the way better job for that purpose) and I just want to be able to start C1 with a raw file name as a parameter w/o a hassle to deal w/ sessions or catalogs, that's it...

why don't you (P1) just enable a mode (as an option - nobody takes anything away from catalogs/session loving folks) when C1 will create, whatever it wants to create, behind the scenes... it already can create a "CaptureOne" subfolder with cache, etc automatically - great, give us an option (again - just an option, nobody is taking anything away from those who needs sessions or catalogs) to automatically create some default session inside that folder w/o any UI dialogs bothering us when C1 is invoked that way and spare people who wants to use C1 just as a converter, not as a DAM, not as a browser, not as something else - but just as a raw converter, from unnecessary irritations...


take Adobe for example - LR is a big market, however there is a significant amount of people who do not use LR, but use ACR only... and Adobe caters to that populace as well... nobody is against P1s giving C1 "LR" features to compete against LR, but why at the same time you try to inflict a pain those who still wants to use C1 as "ACR" beats me...unless you intentionally trying to create your own captive user market vs LR (once people invest a great deal of time using your software as a DAM, etc they might be less likely to jump a ship no matter what migration options are offered by competition)... but then again you forget that there are "ACR" folks around - we are not going to use C1 as a DAM, so instead of capturing us you irritate us.


Right click the RAW file and say "Open With Capture One"?

Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: Rhossydd on October 02, 2014, 03:31:00 pm
Right click the RAW file and say "Open With Capture One"?
No option for that here. W7
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: Rhossydd on October 02, 2014, 03:34:03 pm
That being said, Capture One will work just fine as a file browser too.
Can you explain how that works on files you haven't imported ?
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 02, 2014, 03:40:49 pm
Can you explain how that works on files you haven't imported ?

Make a Session.  Call it Default Session if you like.  That will be the one and only session you ever make.

Go to the System folders section in the Library tool and browse anywhere you like.

Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 02, 2014, 04:21:41 pm


Right click the RAW file and say "Open With Capture One"?



and what, David, do you expect me to see ? the C1 UI dialog requesting me to select some existing session/catalog or create a new one ? why shall I be bothered with it ? ... that is the whole point - an option not be bothered w/ the sessions or catalogs, which was possible before, but then some genious in P1 decided that they know better... I use the name of some raw file as a parameter and I expect to have this file opened in C1 right away w/o even thinking about any sessions or catalogs (if I do select such an option in C1 settings - people who like sessions or catalogs are not in any way hurt by introducing such an option)

Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 02, 2014, 04:22:16 pm
No option for that here. W7

indeed W7, x64 and I do not think it is any different on OSX either...
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 02, 2014, 04:26:00 pm
Make a Session.  Call it Default Session if you like.  That will be the one and only session you ever make.

Go to the System folders section in the Library tool and browse anywhere you like.



no, no... for that I need to start C1 instance first with this "default" session, then when C1 is running I can indeed start C1 with a file name as a parameter w/o any dialogs bothering me (note that C1 is not the only raw converter used, so I do not keep it open all the time - I use whatever converter I deem suitable for a particular image... do  not assume that somebody is working only with/within C1) - that is what I do now... it bothers me, a user... P1 can simply provide an option in settings for some users to automatically use/create a default session in "CaptureOne" subfolder where the raw is located, that's it.. done, everybody happy...
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 02, 2014, 04:33:09 pm
or just allow C1 executable to be started with 2 command line parameters - a session and a raw file... that will also address the issue completely (will be passing always the same precreated dummy session)
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 03, 2014, 03:52:03 am
indeed W7, x64 and I do not think it is any different on OSX either...

See image.

This opens directly into capture one without requiring me to choose a session etc.

Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: esl1885 on October 03, 2014, 10:46:27 am
That does not work for me. I get a box asking me to choose an existing catalog or start a new one. Does not open directly into C8. And, if I don't choose one of the two, it will not let me cancel. I have to go into task manager and cancel it.

Sam
Title: Re: Capture One 8 review
Post by: deejjjaaaa on October 03, 2014, 11:48:23 am
See image.

This opens directly into capture one without requiring me to choose a session etc.



it does not (unless you already have C1 instance running with some session in it)... do a simple experiment... make sure to close all C1 instances on your PC/Win and in Windows command line prompt ("DOS" command line) start C1 executable (.exe) with some raw file as a parameter... again the best way to keep everybody happy is to allow C1 executable to take 2 parameters in command line - both a session (we can once create it and forget it) and a raw file... now it allows you to start it with either one (you can start it with a session or your can start it with a raw file - then it will ask for a session/catalog for example), but not both... a relatively minor addition to the code and some happy users... the existing code already does analysis as to what is passed to the executable, because it does the right actions separately for a session and for a raw file (except it asks for a session when there is no C1 instance running - but allowing to indicate a session will eliminate the necessity for a dialog or to start the instance with the session first)...  the point is when you work wit many converters and not with C1 alone, you quit C1 all the time and then it pains to start an instance for a session, wait some seconds and start it again with a raw file... combine the 2 actions in one with 2 parameters possibnle and it is done.