Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Doug Peterson on September 15, 2014, 07:43:57 am
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A slew of new products from Arca:
Arca Swiss FP (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) - A modular Focal Plane Shutter option compatible with every Arca R and Arca M body. This is not a new separate body; it is an optional accessory for the current bodies.
Arca Swiss CS (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) - A modular, portable, Central Shutter option compatible with every Arca R and Arca M body.
Arca Swiss Cloud DM (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) - A modular, wireless distometer.
Arca Swiss dEx (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) - The brain/hub of all above accessories with wireless remote control.
Arca Swiss Canon/Nikon Lens Mount (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) - More info coming soon.
You can find more information at the links above. We, Digital Transitions, will be at Photokina with Arca Swiss and will be glad to provide answers to any questions you have. Please post them here or email me at dep@digitaltransitions.com.
(https://digitaltransitions.com/images/upload/Arca-Swiss-CS-Central-Shutter-2.jpg)
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Wow, this looks really interesting! If I had guessed I thought Arca-Swiss would come up with a new body similar to Alpa FPS, but these new shutter solutions look more interesting. Haven't had time to read up on what they can do yet though... but first impression is indeed "wow".
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Questions about the Copal shutter replacement, the Arca Swiss CS
1) any idea of pricing, how much will such a shutter cost?
2) is it drop-in replacement, ie can you use it on any camera with copal shutters (such as my Linhof Techno), or will it only work on Arca-Swiss cameras?
And then on the Arca Swiss FP, the obvious question -- how wide can you go with the tech lenses? How many mm does it add to the flange distance?
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This is huge deal for the users of Arca cameras. Probably one of the single biggest announcements from Arca since they announced the R cameras.
Hopefully this will be shipping soon. They have been working on the shutter all year. It would be great to see a picture of the shutter mounted on the rm3di.
Also hope that this will allow the shutter information to be capture by the Back.
Other question is how the shutter communicates to the back, hopefully it's not only limited to USB as that would not allow tethering in the field. I saw that there appears to be a
wifi controller also, so maybe on the IQ2 backs you can go via wifi. Hopefully more on that soon. From the pictures of the controller, it has a mini USB port, so that's not looking good for being able to tether and use this solution in the field. I can see the controller connecting to the FP shutter via USB, but what cable runs to the back and from what port on the FP shutter. There are several different ports available, hopefully this can be done without using the USB port on the back.
Hopefully it works on all the wides in R mount by removal of one of the mount rings. Just like the back rotation device works or the "rotaslide" adapter ring. All R mount lenses I have seen or owned, the closest ring to the lens has "remove for rotaslide". Hopefully that will all it takes.
Glad to see it finally for real. I JUST HOPE ARCA CAN SHIP THESE ON A TIMELY BASIS.
Paul
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Not mentioned in Doug's post, but in the press release is the "Arca-Swiss Universalis" which seems to be an updated MF-two concept, or possibly a merge between M-line and F-line. It would be nice to get a description of what the differences are.
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Any details on the CS shutter?
- Available shutter speeds
- How is it controlled
- Does it work tethered through Phocus or other softwares
- How wide of lens is possible on M-line 6x9?
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Talk is that the FP (focal plane) unit will require a new lens mount, and that the rotaslide ring removal work.
If that's the case, I have to say, OH Well. Great idea, but only for a new user. In conversations I have had with Arca on the FP since January of this year, the plan was to always have the FP be a modular drop in design, with no lens mount redo.
Based on Arca's costs, I am assuming the mount will be $900.00 per lens or close to that. Even if it's less, the thought of sending off 6 separate lenses for mount swaps is a bit disconcerting.
Paul
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- Available shutter speeds
1/250th
- How is it controlled
It connects to the Arca Swiss dEx which allows control via the Arca Swiss RC (wireless remote control).
- Does it work tethered through Phocus or other softwares
Will get back to you.
- How wide of lens is possible on M-line 6x9?
Will get back to you. But normally for wide-angle applications we would suggest an Arca Swiss R series camera.
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and that the rotaslide ring removal work....
Hi Paul,
Do you mean, that the rotaslide will not be an option to use?
Cheers
Andrew
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Other question is how the shutter communicates to the back, hopefully it's not only limited to USB as that would not allow tethering in the field. I saw that there appears to be a wifi controller also, so maybe on the IQ2 backs you can go via wifi. Hopefully more on that soon. From the pictures of the controller, it has a mini USB port, so that's not looking good for being able to tether and use this solution in the field. I can see the controller connecting to the FP shutter via USB, but what cable runs to the back and from what port on the FP shutter. There are several different ports available, hopefully this can be done without using the USB port on the back
More nitty gritty details later, but it is a solution meant for use in the field and can be run without tethering.
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Some very good questions posed here, and I'll be back in about 24 hours with answers to every question here. But for now I have to join some Phase One colleagues for a beer.
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More nitty gritty details later, but it is a solution meant for use in the field and can be run without tethering.
Doug:
Thanks, can you elaborate on if the FP will need a new lens mount?
Also you listed 1/250 for the shutter speed, I assumed the FP would have a range from bulb to say at least 1/500th?
Paul
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Hi Paul,
Not sure if you saw this, but here is a link to a PDF put out by Arca Swiss (thru Doug). Still lacks some details, but it does list the FP top speed at 1/3000 sec.
https://digitaltransitions.com/images/upload/Arca-Swiss-News-2014.pdf (https://digitaltransitions.com/images/upload/Arca-Swiss-News-2014.pdf)
Best,
Foster
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Foster,
Thanks for the link: That sounds better. My biggest concern right now is if the current R mount will work with out modification.
If no modification is needed, I would take one tomorrow.
Paul
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No new lens mount required. But a different spacer ring will be required (will get exact cost tomorrow but it sounded pretty reasonable).
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Doug
Thanks. You just made my day!!
Paul
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1/250th
It connects to the Arca Swiss dEx which allows control via the Arca Swiss RC (wireless remote control).
Will get back to you.
Will get back to you. But normally for wide-angle applications we would suggest an Arca Swiss R series camera.
My interest would be using the Rm3di with the new shutter and appropriate lens shooting in to Phocus so I can use Multishot with a H5D 200MS back
So i need very clear and specific confirmation this is possible and what, exactly, would be needed, and the price, for this setup to work flawlessly
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I would imagine that the new leaf shutters will preserve similar functionality to Copal shutters, but possibly needing different focus spacers. I'm more interested in the FPS (and eventually Canon lens mount). I wonder if the thickness of the FPS matches the Rotaslide spacer on the lenses? That would make for an easy transition. Of course, you wouldn't be able to use a sliding back anymore.
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Looks like each lens, will need a new "lens tube". Even after using an rm3di for almost 3 years now, I am not sure exactly what that is. But not a full mount.
Each lens will need to be measured, then Arca will make the tube, and I guess each tube will be unique to your individual lens. If you use the shutter, you put on the new tube and if you are going to use the copol, then you would use the "original" tube.
Hopefully more pictures may show up later during the week.
Sadly, it appears the widest lens will be the 32mm Rod HR-W.
With 6 lenses, I can see the solution getting pretty expensive. Not sure what the cost of tube will be, but as you will need one per lens, that could easily get up to 1.5K (for say for 5 lenses), shutter estimated at 2K U.S and then the cost of the controller?
Paul
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Paul, why not use the FPS (which can do 1/3000th) and leave all your glass in Copal shutters (using the iris only) to set your f stop?
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Chris.
That is what I hope to do. Still use the Copol for aperture. But it seems that the lenses that will be used with the FPS need a new lens tube to allow for infinity focus. Otherwise I guess with the standard mount the flange focal distance is too far away for infinity. Need some pictures of all this.
Paul
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Ahhh... I was thinking that maybe by removing the "Rotaslide Spacer" we could equalize that distance. Hmm.
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When the FPS shutter is employed, Rotamount and Rotaslide are not useable. Sorry.
But it is useable on any 6x9 camera we own or larger when 110 adapter boards are used on a larger camera, at the back.
32mm is shortest lens.
Rod
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Yes, there is a new 'normal' mounting required.
You will send your lens to me for measurement and another check. I will do this and return the lenses to customer for use as is. We will then produce a custom, for your lens, mounting tube, for use with the FPS shutter.
When not employing the FPS shutter, you would switch back to the original tube.
The FPS mounting tube will cost $350.00 for each lens, approximately.
32mm is widest lens for the FPS.
An initial setup is the shutter, MPU(Power unit and Processor), and RCU(REmote control unit).
The RCU and MPU can control both the FPS or the Central or Leaf shutter for the lens.
Hope this clarifies some questions.
Rod
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Just to clarify what the focal plane shutter will support, I assume widest lens 32mm means Rodenstock Digaron-W 32mm? But anyway to be really clear, have you a list of the tech wides you know work and which don't? How large the rear element is can differ a bit so it's not only about being retrofocus or not so it's not to easy to figure out which lenses that work and not.
My guess is that Digaron-S 35mm works, but not 28 and 23. I guess Schneider Digitar 35mm might work (not so sure, symmetrical, but smaller rear element than the Digaron 32), but not the Digitar 28mm.
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Basically anything 32mm and longer should work including the 35mm Schneider XL.
But no 28mm currently made.
Rod
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Just heard from Rod Klukas, US Arca rep. The FPS on the R camera does not have a 32mm limit as the widest lens. So you can use the 23 and 28mm Rodenstocks on the R cameras with a FPS.
The 32mm limit applies to the Universalis camera or a DSLR2 (M2)camera setup.
This is great news. Each lens that you want to use on a R camera with the FPS will still need the new style lens tube.
Paul
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Rod
The 28mm Schneider doesn't come with a ring. Will it work with the FPS (and without the addition of the new ring)
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Rod
The 28mm Schneider doesn't come with a ring. Will it work with the FPS (and without the addition of the new ring)
The Schneider 24mm and Schneider 28 will not work with the FPS (assuming you want to focus at infinity). Schneider 35XL and up and Rodenstock 23HR and up will all work, including at infinity (with a new ring).
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Teaser...
Writing up now...
(https://digitaltransitions.com/images/upload/dep/kina2014/Photokina-2014-Arca.jpg)
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet... What is the size of the FPS? Can it cover the full 6x4.5 image area? ...and what its flash sync speed is?
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Ahhh... I was thinking that maybe by removing the "Rotaslide Spacer" we could equalize that distance. Hmm.
Everything was done to make the FP as small as possible. But they could not get it down to the size of the Rotaslide Spacer/Ring. It's close, but not quite.
So a $350 ring, made specifically for your lens, is required.
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet... What is the size of the FPS? Can it cover the full 6x4.5 image area? ...and what its flash sync speed is?
Yes, full coverage of full frame backs like the Credo 60, IQ160, IQ280 etc etc.
Flash sync will be around 1/100th-1/125th. If you need faster flash sync then you'd want the Central Shutter system which syncs at 1/250th. If you need very high sync speed you can switch to a DF+ body for flash sync up to 1/1600.
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With Universalis camera, 32mm and longer are the lens that work.
But on the R series cameras, you can go down to 23mm with Rodenstock. Sorry no Schneider below the 35mm.
Hope this clarifies.
Rod
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Here is the US pricing that we have received for the Arca_Swiss dEx system.
Arca-Swiss dEx
MPU : Microprocessor unit for Dex shutters and accessories $1,400.00
RC : Remote control for Dex and MPU $1,120.00
CS : Central Leaf shutter (requires MPU and RC) $1,680.00
FS : Focal Plane shutter $2,940.00
AC : Aperture Control for lenses with FPS $980.00
DC: Aperture control for Canon lenses R body $1,330.00
DM : Cloud wireless device (Requires MPU and RC units) $1,540.00
FC : Focus control 'wagon' (Requires MPU and RC units) $910.00
Upgrade R-Lime lenses 23-80mm for FPS $490.00
Upgrade R-Line lenses 90-120mm for FPS $630.00
Please feel free to contact me with additional questions regarding configuring the components to add to your Arca system.
Lance email ("lns@digitaltransitions.com")
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Lance, hope you can answer some questions, thanks
The upgrade for R lenses @$490.00, is this a cost of shipping the lens to Arca? As the price that has been quoted for the actual new tube is $350.00 per tube. I realize each lens has to be measures etc. but that can be done hopefully locally by an Arca rep. or Authorized dealer?
Is the increase in price on 90 and above due to the fact that a different back extension part also has to be used?, I refer to the back extension pieces that come with a 90mm HR-SW, 105mm Rod, 120 Schneider, etc. each is a bit different in width.
Can the shutter be used with only the MPU, or do you have to also have the Wireless piece. I assume if the MPU is only used, the photographer has to stand close to the camera as with a copol?
Aperture Control for lenses with FPS (?) I assumed you could still use the Copol in the lens for aperture?
What is the connection to the Back, i.e. with a Copol, you have the cable that runs from the shutter to the back. What runs from the FP to the Back and does it have to be wireless or can there be a hard connection as with a Copol.
Thanks
Paul
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I'll try and answer what I can. Doug will be back in office tomorrow and he is going to fill us all in on his actual experience with the new Arca-Swiss products.
The upgrade for R lenses @$490.00, is this a cost of shipping the lens to Arca? As the price that has been quoted for the actual new tube is $350.00 per tube. I realize each lens has to be measures etc. but that can be done hopefully locally by an Arca rep. or Authorized dealer?
When we have remounted lenses to the R-Bayonet the customer would be responsible for the shipping to DT (whatever method they prefer) and we would take care of forwarding them for the modification and we would ship back to customer via UPS ground at no additional charge. Also the original price that was floating around of $350 , was actually Euros and not converted to US currency.
Is the increase in price on 90 and above due to the fact that a different back extension part also has to be used?, I refer to the back extension pieces that come with a 90mm HR-SW, 105mm Rod, 120 Schneider, etc. each is a bit different in width.
I believe they changed the rate on the new 90mm HR-SW since it requires the rear spacer like the longer lenses. If you want an older 90mm remounted it would be the lower cost.
Can the shutter be used with only the MPU, or do you have to also have the Wireless piece. I assume if the MPU is only used, the photographer has to stand close to the camera as with a copol?
MPU is what the components are connected to , it is the central processing unit and it is controlled wirelessly from the RC - Remote Control.
Aperture Control for lenses with FPS (?) I assumed you could still use the Copol in the lens for aperture?
I believe they are referencing the electronic aperture of Canon/Nikon Lenses
What is the connection to the Back, i.e. with a Copol, you have the cable that runs from the shutter to the back. What runs from the FP to the Back and does it have to be wireless or can there be a hard connection as with a Copol. [/i]
I'll let Doug answer this one from his hands on experience.
Lance
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As someone that is reviewing an RM3di purchase in the near future, I'd really like to see what an RM looks like with all of this attached?
I sort of have the feeling that that it'd going to be like lugging a digital recording studio around...lots of cables etc to forget.
Looking forward to more news as this feels like an exciting step.
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Will try to get an image today.
Rod
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I've updated our article to include the Arca Swiss Universalis (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) and Arca Swiss rail attachment.
(https://digitaltransitions.com/images/upload/dep/kina2014/Arca-Swiss-RailMeter.jpg)
(https://digitaltransitions.com/images/upload/dep/kina2014/Arca-Swiss-Universalis.jpg)
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A slew of new products from Arca:
Arca Swiss FP (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) - A modular Focal Plane Shutter option compatible with every Arca R and Arca M body. This is not a new separate body; it is an optional accessory for the current bodies.
Arca Swiss CS (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) - A modular, portable, Central Shutter option compatible with every Arca R and Arca M body.
Arca Swiss Cloud DM (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) - A modular, wireless distometer.
Arca Swiss dEx (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) - The brain/hub of all above accessories with wireless remote control.
Arca Swiss Canon/Nikon Lens Mount (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/arca-swiss-shutter-dex-fc-cs) - More info coming soon.
You can find more information at the links above. We, Digital Transitions, will be at Photokina with Arca Swiss and will be glad to provide answers to any questions you have. Please post them here or email me at dep@digitaltransitions.com.
I'd like to know more about the specification of F-universalis.
It's seem that using a 15cm Monorail, right ?
I have a M-monolith orbix 6x9 body, so, is there any conversion kit (like only the front and back Function Carrier) to convert my M-monolith to F-universalis dslr?
Any price list for F-universalis ?
Thanks.
Kalson
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I would also appreciate an answer to Kalson's question above. I have a 6x9 Monolith with Orbix as well, and having the option to go to the Universalis when needed would be nice.
Best,
Foster
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Univeralis uses the same rail, lens boards, accessories, and DB mounts. But the front and rear standards are quite small/light compared to your view camera so you'd need to buy both the front and rear standard to get the full effect.
Contact your preferred Arca Swiss dealer for more details and pricing.
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Any idea what will be the pricing of Arca LulF camera?
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The 2012 version is 6700 EUR, in France. No idea if the one shown at the kina was a newer/different model.
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The new LulF which includes both the 11x14 back/ground glass and the 8x10 back/ground glass as well, will sell for 10,920.00.
Lens boards are the 141 series.
Rod Klukas
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Thanks Rod / Frederic.
So I guess EU price will be around 20% higher due to VAT. Hmm, that's a bit steep.
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I am pretty much a tech cam novice, so I have a few questions regarding the products announced. I hope someone can aswer these.
With a combination of these, would I be able to:
- Mount a Credo 40 back
- Use with a Nikon 16-35 VR at 16mm
- Be able to use rise/ fall and swing
If so, this is something I would be quite interested in. :)
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I am pretty much a tech cam novice, so I have a few questions regarding the products announced. I hope someone can aswer these.
With a combination of these, would I be able to:
- Mount a Credo 40 back
- Use with a Nikon 16-35 VR at 16mm
- Be able to use rise/ fall and swing
If so, this is something I would be quite interested in. :)
With a Universalis, you would be able to mount your Credo 40
Currently I don't believe Arca has a mount to take Nikon, they do for Canon and I believe are working on Nikon
You would have rise fall etc. Swing I am not sure how it works as it appears the setup is bit different from the DSLR2/M2
You would need to add both the R/C (remote unit to fire the shutter) the MPU (digital controller) and FP shutter. The R/C and MPU to control the aperture on the Nikon/Canon lens and the FP for shutter.
Paul
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The camera is available in Canon, Nikon and Sony, and Leica M mounts(Slightly higher in price).
The 16-35mm first would not focus at infinity if mounted. Second, it has virtually no coverage for movement anyway,
and the German optics from Rodenstock and Schneider are far superior to any zoom lens made for DSLR use.
The camera can be converted to medium format or 4x5 if desired.
Rod
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A further followup on the 16-35mm question.
This is a link to a test of the lens on DX and FX bodies.
http://cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_Nikkor_AF-S_16-35mm_f4G_ED_VR/sharpness.shtml
As you can see F8 on FX is definitely the best at some focal lengths, but even there is not very good.
And trying to move either the lens or the sensor, and using this lens farther from optical center would certainly not be an answer.
Just some information.
Rod
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Hi Rod, thanks very much for the clarifications!
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One more thing to ask... If one uses the Canon mount on a universalis and he would use his Contax 645 glass on the same mount via a Conorus adapter... He would in theory still be able to control the aperture through the R/C and the MPU ...wouldn't he? ...Doug? ...Steve?
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One more thing to ask... If one uses the Canon mount on a universalis and he would use his Contax 645 glass on the same mount via a Conorus adapter... He would in theory still be able to control the aperture through the R/C and the MPU ...wouldn't he? ...Doug? ...Steve?
+1 to an answer for this, as it would open the door for many other lens types (Pentax 645 etc)
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In theory if it works on a Canon camera (i.e. it's conforming completely to the Canon lens communication protocol/specification) then it should work on the Arca Swiss canon-lens-mount solution.
But for this sort of unusual combination my recommendation would be to get in touch with your local Arca Swiss dealer and when they get a demo unit, stop by with the exact combination you wish to test.
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We have received our demo unit of the Arca Swiss Univeralis and have completed an initial review of it.
Arca Swiss Univeralis - 11 Reasons You'll Love It (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/dt-testing-arca-swiss-universalis)
I also now have the final/full specifications for movements on each standard. Bit swamped today, but plan on adding it to the product page next week.
(https://digitaltransitions.com/images/upload/Arca-Swiss-Univeralis-Swing-Tilt.gif)