Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: alifatemi on August 30, 2014, 11:50:59 am
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Hi. Anybody's compared D800E with 810? Any new resolution/sharpness improvement duo to improved sensor please?
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Hi
there are stacks of reviews covering this subject but there is in my opinion one big reason for upgrading. Liveview is so much better on the D810 than on the D800E. If you don't mind the live view on the D800E I wouldn't bother.
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I used the D800 and D800E since they were introduced.
Have now sold the D800 and bought a D810, so now using the D800E and D810 together.
I haven't done anything yet that would allow me to say that the resolution/sharpness of the D810 surpassed that of the D800E (but then, as mentioned several times on this forum, I could never genuinely discern any difference between the D800E and the D800 in real life).
However, apart from some of the other interesting changes (of which one - the monitor quality - is mentioned above) the real game-changer for me is the highlight-priority metering mode of the D810. That really is amazing and puts the D810 well ahead of the D800/D800E.
It probably was a new feature whose "time has come". Coupled with the much enhanced dynamic range of modern sensors and the shadows recovery features of the latest versions of Lightroom and ACR, being able to meter specifically for the highlights in such an automatic manner really sets this camera well ahead of the competition.
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Any new resolution/sharpness improvement [due] to improved sensor?
The short answer is "no": http://blog.kasson.com/?p=6690
However, there are improvements in sharpness due to the EFCS: http://blog.kasson.com/?p=6638
And, also, due to the improved AF.
Jim
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Pretty much everything is improved in ways that would have justified a move to a D900 naming. The much quieter shutter, ISO64 and even cleaner shadows, the ergonomics of the grip, live view and EFC, the "robustness" of the AF,...
Detail is finer than on the D800, not sure compared to the D800E.
Overall, it looks very similar but is a pretty different camera. Short of moving to an EVF or to an even higher res sensor, I am not sure what more Nikon could have changed.
Cheers,
Bernard
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After shooting the 810 for a couple if weeks before boxing it up for the "white dot" fix, I found I am impressed with it.
I personally find raw files when loaded in LR with the sharpening set to the defaults, need less sharpening than similar files from my 800e. The LCD view on the 810 seems to show quite a bit of haloing around finer green leaves which worried me until I opened the files in LR. Files were fine just a viewing oddity at 100%
I agree with Bernard's points 100%.
Live view on the 810 is much easier to work with.
I wish the EFC worked a bit easier without needing to have MP enabled but that might be something firmware updates can address or something that can't be changed due to the current technology.
The increase in FPS in both jpg and raw is a nice addition.
Paul
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If only they would stick that D810 into a D4s body, I would buy that in a heartbeat.Even if it cost $6 K
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If only they would stick that D810 into a D4s body, I would buy that in a heartbeat.Even if it cost $6 K
I just shot about 2,000 frames with the 300mm f2.8 VR I with the vertical grip fitted with the D4s battery on the D810 and it is the very close to the experience I remember from the D3 and D3x.
At this point a D4x with the sensor of the D810 would not interest me.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I don't agree with you. My friend has a D800 with the battery pack and it's much heavier,uglier and bulkier than my D3x,hence I still use that.
It's all up to the individual really at the end.
Happy shooting.
W
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EFC is the key selling point to me. I like ISO 64 for long exposures as ell. But EFC is key.
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I don't agree with you. My friend has a D800 with the battery pack and it's much heavier,uglier and bulkier than my D3x,hence I still use that.
It's all up to the individual really at the end.
Sure, it is up to the needs/like.
It clearly is uglier, yes but I personally don't care about the look of my camera. If I did I would own a Leica S. ;)
Now, I am not sure how is can be much heavier since the D810+MB-D12 weights 1,155 gr vs 1240gr for the D3x. Size is frankly very similar too.
When I don't need the vertical grip, I love the lighter (880 gr) and more compact form factor of the D810. The gap is even larger if you factor in battery weight.
Cheers,
Bernard
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The D810 is a godsend to us large people (I'm 6'4"). Believe it or not, what got me to even look at upgrading from a d800 was the news of the redesigned grip. My d800 was rapidly approaching the 10,000 clicks level which seems to spook the resale value. The image quality improvements sealed the deal and I upgraded rather than wait for the normal upgrade cycle.
I needed the mdb-12 in order to handhold the d800 for any period of time or with heavier lenses, as there was no place to put my pinky finger. The redesigned grip on the d810 fits my hand perfectly. I don't have to carry the extra weight of the mdb-12 even with a 300 mm lens.
The ergonomic changes to the af-on, ae-l/af-l, and fn buttons along with the grip are also great. I've programmed the ae-l/af-l to auto focus lock and the function button to autoexposure lock. When I want full control, I can initiate autofocus with my thumb and slide over the ledge to the left to lock it , and I can lock exposure with my index finger.
I've even found that I can use the electronic front curtain shutter handheld. The trick is to compose loosely, and then crop in post to make up for any movement in camera or subject position between pressing the shutter twice.
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After using two years the D800e i used the d810 now for one week.
Most of the changes refer to handling and being able to get the shot and control the details.
group AF is very fast ; very silent shutter ( at last!); 100% good quality liveview
split liveview - so you can see the depth of field / sharpness at different points. very useful.
bracketing is now possible with two and three stops difference - a highlight priority matrix meter. Electronic first curtain
The resolution is about the same. the image has improved but only slightly… you need the best lenses to see the difference.
The details are more precise ; as other pointed out ; the image looks a bit more 3d.
The files have more contrast; i used for the d800e the standard camera profile in ACR and now i use the Neutral ( softer profile)
I need slightly less sharpening on the d810
As some pointed out ; some lenses seem to have more depth of field. ( the 85mm 1.4G for one)
The colors are different- more pronounced as if a slight cast has lifted.
Looking at all the digital camera i have used through the years it is another step forward in making the image look more photographic and less graphic.
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Hi
there are stacks of reviews covering this subject but there is in my opinion one big reason for upgrading. Liveview is so much better on the D810 than on the D800E. If you don't mind the live view on the D800E I wouldn't bother.
Using a D800E, I have been disappointed by liveview focus (about the same as can be had with my D700). One can vastly improve liveview focus on a D800 with a Picture Control Sharpening setting of 9 (Credit goes to Lloyd Chambers.) I'll also increase exposure by one stop over after having fully zoomed in on the point of focus. While it may not be as good as a D810, it is a vast improvement and cost nothing...
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After using two years the D800e i used the d810 now for one week.
Most of the changes refer to handling and being able to get the shot and control the details.
group AF is very fast ; very silent shutter ( at last!); 100% good quality liveview
split liveview - so you can see the depth of field / sharpness at different points. very useful.
bracketing is now possible with two and three stops difference - a highlight priority matrix meter. Electronic first curtain
The resolution is about the same. the image has improved but only slightly… you need the best lenses to see the difference.
The details are more precise ; as other pointed out ; the image looks a bit more 3d.
The files have more contrast; i used for the d800e the standard camera profile in ACR and now i use the Neutral ( softer profile)
I need slightly less sharpening on the d810
As some pointed out ; some lenses seem to have more depth of field. ( the 85mm 1.4G for one)
The colors are different- more pronounced as if a slight cast has lifted.
Looking at all the digital camera i have used through the years it is another step forward in making the image look more photographic and less graphic.
I have been trying to put words around this, and you have it well described. It's the cast issue that I always saw with the D800 Family. It could be corrected in post, but it was strange, the D810 sure has a better base WB control.
After shooting both cameras side by side now in many night long exposures, no doubt the D810 is the winner, overall much cleaner in all aspects, from base iso of 64 to 3200. The 810 without the white dot fix was a MESS, but after getting the fix from Nikon it's very clean.
This also confirms my suspicion that early models of the D800e had this same issue. Nikon fixed this behind the covers on later cameras. I noted this from day one with my D800e and wrote about on my blog many times, and attempted to get Nikon to replace/fix the camera. When I saw the comparisons of the early D810's to D800e's the D800e's were very clean, so I knew Nikon had made a fix. Same fix apparently that was let off of the D810 at first. I have used 2 other D800e's in workshops I have conducted all in longer exposures and both were free of the white dots. that mine has.
Live view is the other huge improvement over the D800 family. You now can still focus in low light without way too much noise. There is some noise, but nothing like the D800e has. The review screen of the D810 has the green bar to let you know where 100% view is, ( a great help). and you now have the EFC option.
Well worth the upgrade.
Paul
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from previous reports I would have never guessed the 800/e was such a flawed camera
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Sure it is flawed. Still the second best full frame camera ever after the 810.
The 810 also has a crippling flaw. No flip screen.
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from previous reports I would have never guessed the 800/e was such a flawed camera
All cameras are flawed. There's no perfect camera: infinite resolution, zero weight, totally accurate color, no noise but photon noise, QE of one, diffraction-limited 8mm to 1000mm f/2 zoom...
I think the incremental improvements brought about by the D810 are remarkable for a camera that I originally thought of as a "S" version of the D800E. That doesn't make the D800E a bad camera. In a few years when we have a D820 with fully electronic global shutter and 54 MP, that won't make the D810 a bad camera, either.
Jim
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from previous reports I would have never guessed the 800/e was such a flawed camera
The D800 was just as good as everybody said. The D810 is just significantly better than an already excellent camera. There are very few flaws I can think of:
- lack of an articulated screen, but that can also be seen as a being a plus in terms of durability,
- lack of a better built-in photographer, ;)
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I would expect Canon to deliver significant improvements with the 5DIV as well.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Maybe the IQ improvement is barely noticeable, the decision for me came down to spending an extra $1,000 to not miss shots.
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from previous reports I would have never guessed the 800/e was such a flawed camera
Not sure if this is sarcasm, but.. There are more flawed photographers than there are flawed cameras. The whole shebang about the D800 started after Ming Thein's blog about the AF and then of course, pixel peeper extraordinaire Lloyd chambers joined the festivities. I was very concerned when I bought one, but till date, it has fared no worse than my bajillion years old D70s or my Mamiya 645 DF+. The hit/ miss ratio on all the cameras is about the same. The D800 actually hits focus most times with an 8 stop ND on the lens, which is quite impressive.
(https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/v/t1.0-9/1234286_10151743541544209_650212332_n.jpg?oh=9185ce6c7c0a08ff7d86742f2d3816f8&oe=54BD8F70)
(Near wide open, 50 1.8G )
In fact, the only major complaints I have of the D800 is the color rendition (Topic for another time) and the sub par live view. I don't use LV much, but when I do, it has frustrated me. Thankfully,t hat seems to be fixed on the 810.
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Shooting landscapes fixing LV and adding EFCS was the big thing for me on the D810. Overall a more responsive camera and the LCD looks so much nicer :)
Yes, Lloyd Chambers pixel peeps, Don't we all when needing to compare details and IQ from a camera? How else could he report on improvements and differences? There is nothing wrong with pixel peeping as long as this is not the main purpose of photography and I don't know of any where it is like this. Sorry for the rant ;)
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There is nothing wrong with pixel peeping as long as this is not the main purpose of photography
I agree. Problem is, that's all Chambers does and is capable of.
Anyway, let's not make the thread about him now. Point is, it was and is a fine camera and most of the issues were overly exaggerated by people who specialize in nitpicking:)
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There are more flawed photographers than there are flawed cameras.
Getting wise in your old age ...
Dislike making any judgements or comments based on posted jpeg's, but gotta tell you, Synn, IMO that's probably the 'best' shot you've posted to date. Particularly the skin tones ..
Go figure ... [/smiley]
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How is it a problem that some are pixel peepers? We all learn and then the creative types can go and make better images. Everyone wins.
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Getting wise in your old age ...
Dislike making any judgements or comments based on posted jpeg's, but gotta tell you, Synn, IMO that's probably the 'best' shot you've posted to date. Particularly the skin tones ..
Go figure ... [/smiley]
I do love DxO filmpack when I am toning for a cinematic look ;)
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I waited what seemed like forever for the D800E. I was thrilled when it came out and stopped waiting for Nikon's next generation for the first time going back to my first DSLR, the D50 (Anyone say dinosaur?). I came to hate the D50 almost as much as I hated the D80. For my needs, the D700 was Nikon's first major breakthrough. And what a huge leap it was.
Like chronic software upgrades, I'm growing weary of digital camera upgrades when today's technology curve is rounding out in a fashion that allows the likes of me to say "no thanks". Sorry for my lack of endurance in this age of technology, but it does rub me a bit — built in obsolescence and whatnot. So when I read of the D810 several months after its release, I was actually surprised how quickly Nikon had made this move.
The bottom line for me is the print. I have yet to read of anyone hyping the D810 in terms of improved print quality. Everyone seems to be referring to files as viewed on a monitor, but maybe I'm missing something here. I should qualify my attitude/opinion as one coming from a landscape photographer that that shoots everything in Manual Mode. I accomplish outstanding DOF without difficulty.
My question to you converts: what's in this upgrade for the print?
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I come from d800e and have the d810;
The d810 is maybe slightly more precise in its rendering.... but even pixel peepers will not distinguish the two in print or screen for sure..
Colors are a bit different as is contrast. ISO64 has a little better dynamic range and cleaner image...
But the main reason to upgrade is in handling and getting the shot: better autofocus- faster- better liveview with splitscreen- highlight matrix metering etc...
also it is less noisy.
I sold my d800e so the upgrade did not cost that much...
PS
What i have learned from the d800E is to check the autofocus accuracy; it is very important with the d800e...mine was way off (-15)
The d810 is better, i got values between -1 and +3 for my AFS lenses ; but my old mechanical AF 35mm d2 needed -12
it takes time and you have to do it carefully (or not) - but it is worth it.; nevertheless it is a bad thing Nikon is not to be trusted on this point ..
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Hi. Anybody's compared D800E with 810? Any new resolution/sharpness improvement duo to improved sensor please?
Just joined.
I have the 810, I have used the 800e, there is a great difference better frame rate, to me better low light and better image processing