Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: john beardsworth on July 09, 2014, 01:19:19 pm
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What happens to your Lightroom work when you stop subscribing? It's always been a worry but Lightroom 5.5 has a significant
licensing change - Lightroom will keep working after you end your subscription or trial. Only Develop and Map will fail to work, but you can do anything else. Read more here (http://lightroomsolutions.com/relax/).
Any thoughts?
John
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I hope you are referring to the version of Lightroom that is part of a CC package as opposed to the stand-alone version that many of us have. "Have you stopped subscribing to Lightroom?" sounds a lot like "Have you stopped beating your wife?" to many of us.
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I know what you mean, but losing access to your work was a huge downside of subscription and Adobe's move has addressed that - at least for Lightroom. I don't know if it's wider, but I don't think so.
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If you have a perpetual license to LR, what John asked isn't relative...it only applies to those people whose license to LR is by subscription.
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It seems that the intention for the subscription model is to give you the latest tools to edit and process your images but not to prevent access to your finished jobs. With Photoshop you have the option to save your final work as a flattened tiff, which can be read by other application. Layered PSD's with smart objects that you might want to modify later on? those are work in progress (I accept that others might disagree).
In the case of Lightroom, the main concern was not to be able to export your images before deciding to end the subscription but losing all the effort put in the Library, that would have been an issue of not being able to access your "finished" work.
I also guess that this is a move in the direction of having future releases of LR in subscription only mode.
BTW, I am fine with the subscription model and a believer of cloud computing in general. We are still in the early stages and there are many issues still unanswered.
Here is a question for those of you that oppose the cloud and think that your files are better in your own computer at home: Do you keep your money under your mattress or you have it in a bank?
Regards
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I also guess that this is a move in the direction of having future releases of LR in subscription only mode.
At least, it makes it much less objectionable.
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I'll still get the perpetual version. It reduces the value (for me) of the Photography Bundle but it doesn't require the internet leash of CC, which makes it great for laptop travel use.
@Frank: The money I have in the bank is insured by the FDIC. Most of the "Cloud" terms of service I've seen go to great lengths to absolve themselves of any sort of liability.
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What happens to your Lightroom work when you stop subscribing? It's always been a worry but Lightroom 5.5 has a significant licensing change - Lightroom will keep working after you end your subscription or trial. Only Develop and Map will fail to work, but you can do anything else. Read more here (http://lightroomsolutions.com/relax/).
Any thoughts?
John
John, I'm not sure this is correct. Where did you get this from ?
Those of us who purchased the ‘Photographers Bundle’ were told that Lightroom was a perpetual, not a subscription, license.
Are you now saying that with the upgrade to Lightroom 5.5 this has changed ? You can checked Adobe's published terms, those that we agree to when signing-up, here: General Terms (http://www.adobe.com/uk/legal/general-terms.html) – and no mention is made of these new conditions here or any other of Adobe’s documentation; that I can find.
We did have a discussion on this subject here New Photoshop CC and Lightroom (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=90922.0) and the pundits concluded that Lightroom still exists as a perpetual license whether bought as a stand alone produce or as part of the Creative Cloud subscription.
Of course, this may change with Lightroom 6. But we won't really know until it is released or Adobe publishes details.
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@Frank: The money I have in the bank is insured by the FDIC. Most of the "Cloud" terms of service I've seen go to great lengths to absolve themselves of any sort of liability.
I agree. That's why I said we are still in the early stages. There is no balance and lack or adequate regulation. It has to evolve and increase trust and we will get there.
Those of us who purchased the ‘Photographers Bundle’ were told that Lightroom was a perpetual, not a subscription, license.
That's not my understanding. You have the option to buy the perpetual license, but if you get LR as part of CC, then you can use as long as you stay as a suscriber.
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John, I'm not sure this is correct. Where did you get this from ?
Those of us who purchased the ‘Photographers Bundle’ were told that Lightroom was a perpetual, not a subscription, license.
Are you now saying that with the upgrade to Lightroom 5.5 this has changed ? You can checked Adobe's published terms, those that we agree to when signing-up, here: General Terms (http://www.adobe.com/uk/legal/general-terms.html) – and no mention is made of these new conditions here or any other of Adobe’s documentation; that I can find.
We did have a discussion on this subject here New Photoshop CC and Lightroom (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=90922.0) and the pundits concluded that Lightroom still exists as a perpetual license whether bought as a stand alone produce or as part of the Creative Cloud subscription.
Of course, this may change with Lightroom 6. But we won't really know until it is released or Adobe publishes details.
I don't think one should get into debating whether it's a perpetual licence or a subscription one, Simon, and I don't think Adobe would need to change the documentation here. Instead what's happened is that they've relaxed how the program behaves once it's no longer licensed after the end of a 30 day trial or ending the subscription. Previously, Lightroom wouldn't let you do anything, but now it only stops you going into the Develop and Map modules.
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John, I'm not sure this is correct.
He is correct.
As to the answer, it's no different than those working with Photoshop CS6 or earlier. Prior to pulling the subscription plug (if you're so sure that's the right move), you render the raws as TIFFs. It's not a very acceptable answer for me, hence I'll stick with LR (and Photoshop).
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There's now an official statement (http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/07/what-happens-to-lightroom-after-my-membership-ends.html) confirming it.
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I don't see it expressed explicitly, but I do assume that if a subscription for Lightroom (and Photoshop CC) is ended that you can buy a license and continue workshop on all photos in any Lightroom catalog. And not only now but in any future release of Lightroom.
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Yes, but that was true before this change. What's new is that after the subscription ends, you don't now need to buy a licence to continue to use LR - only if you wanted to use Develop or Map.
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I my comment, I meant full use of Lightroom including all modules.
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He is correct.
Ummm. Really ?
I seem to recollect in the heated exchanges when the subscription model was first introduced, and then the 'Photographers' Bundle' was offered to us, that the version of Lightroom included was not configured to run in a ‘subscription’ Creative Cloud mode but in a ‘perpetual license’ mode and would not therefore expire. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember Jeff Schewe saying something to this effect. Tom Hoggarty, Lightroom's Product Manager certainly did. See this URL Lightroom and the Creative Cloud (http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2013/05/lightroom-and-the-creative-cloud.html). This is directly contradicted by Adobe's latest announcement.
The official announcement confirming Lightroom's impermanence, that John Beardsworth refers to, was made only yesterday.
It now seems to be the case that, at least from version 5.5 onwards, that Lightroom is now in subscription Creative Cloud mode and will therefore expire if you do not keep up your subscription payments. Whilst I laud the decision to keep all the modules working with the exception of Develop and Maps this does mean a change of the terms of the original contract which in the UK, at least, would be ruled unlawful. The original terms would still have to apply over the duration of the original contract.
Sadly, this double talking contradictory nonsense does nothing to enhance Adobe’s repuation.
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I seem to recollect in the heated exchanges when the subscription model was first introduced, and then the 'Photographers' Bundle' was offered to us, that the version of Lightroom included was not configured to run in a ‘subscription’ Creative Cloud mode but in a ‘perpetual license’ mode and would not therefore expire.
You are wrong...while Lightroom will continue to be available as a perpetual license (stand alone separate purchase), the license for Lightroom when purchased through CC is a subscription license and it will expire when the subscription ends.
There are two models for Lightroom; perpetual and subscription. Unless you buy a perpetual license, the subscription license is dependent continued subscription.
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It now seems to be the case that, at least from version 5.5 onwards, that Lightroom is now in subscription Creative Cloud mode and will therefore expire if you do not keep up your subscription payments.
It's amazing how many different interpretations can be put on these announcements, I don't know how you read that particular one into what's has been said.
I think, but am always happy to be proved wrong, that it is quite simple. You either buy a perpetual licence for LR that works as it always has done, or you can sign up for one of the CC packages in which case it is a subscription licence and will stop working if you stop paying (although following yesterday's announcement LR will now work in a restricted made if you stop paying rather than not working at all). If you do both (i.e. you have a perpetual licence and then also sign up to CC) it doesn't invalidate or cancel your perpetual licence.
So what's not to like? If you prefer the perpetual licence model you can go on buying upgrades as you always have, or you can dive into CC and be sure you'll still be able to manage your library and create prints if you decide to stop paying.
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You are wrong...while Lightroom will continue to be available as a perpetual license (stand alone separate purchase), the license for Lightroom when purchased through CC is a subscription license and it will expire when the subscription ends.
There are two models for Lightroom; perpetual and subscription. Unless you buy a perpetual license, the subscription license is dependent continued subscription.
I guess that I have fallen victim to Adobe's poor communications.
Quoting from Tom Hogarty's blog:
“Q. Will there be a different version of Lightroom called Lightroom CC?
A. No.”
I am conflating “subscription” with “CC” (Creative Cloud). So, will there be a different subscription version of Lightroom ? No, I mean yes; or do I ? See here: New Photoshop CC and Lightroom (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=90922.0) Rick Popham's reply.
Well that's clear then (not).
BTW, Jeff, you are clear. And thank you.
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Quoting from Tom Hogarty's blog:
“Q. Will there be a different version of Lightroom called Lightroom CC?
A. No.”
You were confusing "version" with "licensing model"...LR CC and perpetual are the same "version" just with different licensing. One needs a serial number the other needs a subscription.
And the point John was making, with the subscription model going forward, you don't lose the ability to launch LR after the end of the subscriptions, you lose the ability to use certain functions but can still access your catalog.
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Jeff, I was probably just confused !
To be slightly pedantic “version” can mean version as in the iteration of the software as in “version 1.X.Y”; or version as in “Photoshop Heavy” is a different version of Photoshop than “Photoshop Light”; or version as in a perpetually functional version or time limited functioning depending on a subscription payment version.
Tom Hogan's reply to (his own question) is that there will not be a different version of Lightroom. Take your pick from the above. Or make statements that, like yours Jeff, are clear and unequivocal and not open to misunderstanding. This has not exactly been Adobe’s forté recently.
The news that John Beardsworthy imparts is indeed good, and as a subscriber, I welcome it.
Apologies to all for my red herring.
Perhaps Adobe could adopt plain speaking in the future. It has a lot going for it.
Thanks to Jeff Schewe for making things clearer (I hope Adobe pay you for this, Jeff) ;D
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I'm not the only one confused. From Tom Hogan's blog…
What happens to Lightroom after my membership ends? (http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/07/what-happens-to-lightroom-after-my-membership-ends.html#comment-196182)
Disgruntled Lightroom user:
“I purchased LR at version 1.
I’ve paid for every upgrade since, and opted in to adobes original limited time offer bundle with Photodhop CC. Adobe later made it “permanent “. At that time adobe stated LR was to continue as a perpetual stand alone product. That’s why I bought the bundle subscription. As far as I’m concerned I have a perpetual license for LR (all the modules!). Adobes offer at the time should stand.
If I don’t have a perpetual LR licence, how can I revert to my last perpetual licence? Will you still offer paid upgrades so I can remain current, or have you totally reversed your original offer so that to remain current with LR I have to abandon the perp license for the subscription?
As far as I can tell, this new policy is not what was offered when I opted into the photography bundle and I’m both concerned and upset.”
So, I'm not the only one who has misunderstood.
Just so you know “membership model” seems to equate to “subscription model”.
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@Simon A. J. Simpson, If you upgraded to the latest Perpetual Licensed version which is LR 5 then you presently have two licenses to Lightroom Version 5, one is a subscription license with the Creative Cloud and the other is a Perpetual License. So if you decide to stop your CC subscription now you can revert to using your perpetual license, what will then happen you will also loose the use of Photoshop CC and Lightroom mobile if you are using that feature to sync your work with your iPad and iPhone.
The LR 5.5 perpetual license is still being marketed by Adobe and they have indicated that Lightroom will continue to be sold as a perpetual license for the foreseeable future.
You are actually better off now with this anouncment, earlier if you had stopped your subscription Lightroom and Photoshop CC would have stopped functioning completly.
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I guess that I have fallen victim to Adobe's poor communications.
Quoting from Tom Hogarty's blog:
“Q. Will there be a different version of Lightroom called Lightroom CC?
A. No.”
I am conflating “subscription” with “CC” (Creative Cloud). So, will there be a different subscription version of Lightroom ? No, I mean yes; or do I ? See here: New Photoshop CC and Lightroom (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=90922.0) Rick Popham's reply.
Well that's clear then (not).
BTW, Jeff, you are clear. And thank you.
My apologies, Simon. I went back and read my post again and you're right -- it was ambiguous.
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I agree that the communication has been a bit confusing at times. However I have always been of the view that with the introduction of the Creative Cloud Photographers package, i.e when Lightroom 5 was included at the same subscription price with Photoshop CC $9.99 per month that the inclusion of Lightroom in the package it was "gratis" and not the purchase of a "Lightroom Perpetual License". And it was confirmed that Lightroom would continue to be sold as a standalone package indefinitely.
To whit if you already had a Lightroom 5 perpetual license and then subscribed to the Photographers Package in Creative Cloud you now had two Licenses for LR5. One of which was tied to your continuing subscription payments.
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(I hope Adobe pay you for this, Jeff) ;D
Adobe pays me nothing except for an occasional usage fee is they want to use one of my images...really, I don't work for Adobe.
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Have you all seen the following ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozbf05w0cPQ&list=UUFJ7r70nIWRe0mJ2lp7NAsA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozbf05w0cPQ&list=UUFJ7r70nIWRe0mJ2lp7NAsA)
... a bit so so .... very glad I have the perpetual licence.
(Wish it were the same for Photoshop.)
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That video is what this thread is about. I'm not sure I understand your point
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That video is what this thread is about. I'm not sure I understand your point
I was only pointing out another source to the discussion.
And adding the fact that I, like others, am pleased Adobe has kept LR as a separate entity as it were.