Luminous Landscape Forum

Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: DiaAzul on September 22, 2005, 05:39:32 pm

Title: 5D Review
Post by: DiaAzul on September 22, 2005, 05:39:32 pm
To Michael, thanks very much for the 5D review - was a pleasure to read as it addressed many of the current issues being publicly discussed and managed to tread a well balanced fine line between a dry technical treatise and a noddy guide to photography.

The only observation that jumps to mind is your comment on increased visibility of dust in the images. I am wondering (though this is speculative) whether, as a result of the much brighter conditions, the majority of your images were shot with a much smaller aperture/higher f-stop than you have typically used in other situations. My own experience has been that the higher the f-stop the more visible any dust on the sensor. Therefore, given the typical shooting conditions in Greece/Turkey dust will be more visible in the final images than, say, pictures taken in northern latitudes where life tends to be a little darker - even though there is in reality no more dust on the sensor. Just a thought.
Title: 5D Review
Post by: on September 22, 2005, 05:56:43 pm
Actuallly a lot of my shooting was in low light conditions, at the beginning and end of the day, so the smaller aperture syndrome wasn't it I'm afraid.

Title: 5D Review
Post by: Ben Rubinstein on September 22, 2005, 07:16:55 pm
What iso where you shooting the Aegean Sunrise with, it's very very noisy, looks like 1600 at best. D-mn nice picture though.

I've noticed a lot of them in the past couple of years or so, have you always shot a lot of silhouette type photography, using stark blacks to help make the simplicity and strength of the photograph. Has it always been like this or is it a style you are exploring at present?
Title: 5D Review
Post by: wdmacg on September 22, 2005, 07:41:45 pm
Michael, Thanks for a very interesting report in conbination with your usual excellent photographs. Your statements on image quality-were they based on prints? On the question of "Dust" the 70-300DO tends to push air back towards the mirror chamber similar to the 100-400. Thanks again-WDM
Title: 5D Review
Post by: Ray on September 22, 2005, 11:36:58 pm
I think Michael's choice of images from the 5D seems to reflect a deliberate attempt to avoid provoking any discussion on resolution and noise issues. The Aegean Sunrise is a very appealing minimalist composition that could have been taken by almost any camera of any quality to produce a similar effect and impact.
Title: 5D Review
Post by: Congaragata on September 23, 2005, 03:36:24 am
I fully agree and simply can not understand why one would want to have a dedicated print button on that camera. I would love to have that button customizable and would expect that this should be possible with a firmware tweak by Canon.

My question, would it help to write to Canon about this and if so, whom would I address such an e-mail to?

PS: I guess I know where that print button comes from after all. As seen with the 24-105 lens almost attached to that body, it seems that all the advertisements and even the public event I visited in Japan a few weeks ago, always come with a Canon printer. Is that just marketing, who decided that they need to push the printer sales?
Title: 5D Review
Post by: jani on September 23, 2005, 05:06:54 am
Michael, in your field report, you mention that you wouldn't worry too much about damaging an "unshielded" prosumer level camera in rain etc.

My concern over this has been that over time (several years, at least), humidity and pollution (dust, salt, whatever) together can result in corrosion in unshielded electric circuits.

Do you really think this long-term concern is unfounded?

And as many others, I loved the not-review and most of the art. Thanks.
Title: 5D Review
Post by: Ben Rubinstein on September 23, 2005, 08:37:00 am
The battery life is very disappointing, as bad as the 1Ds and one of the reasons I was excited for the 5D. The print button is ludicrous, just plain silly.

Jani, did you ever think any further about the Kata?
Title: 5D Review
Post by: Mark D Segal on September 23, 2005, 09:04:21 am
Michael, many thanks for that well-balanced and sensible discussion of the "hot-button" issues that the 5D design evokes. The review is all the more useful because it discusses these generic issues so cogently. Also, those photographs of the Greek Islands are stunning, (and for the benefit of Ray) regardless of what camera they could have been made with; based on what you said about the purpose of the review, you were simply illustrating the article with some excellent photographs you made with the camera, not purporting to show any distinguishing characteristics of images the D5 can produce. As you made very clear, there is a whole suite of professional/prosumer cameras that all produce excellent photographs in the hands of good photographers.

There are several observations in your review that I would like to discuss briefly.

First is the question of weather-proofing. Fine, cameras are more weather-proof than their users - no quibble (grin). BUT, there are two parts to the package - the body and the lens. Canon L lenses are featured to have a degree of climatic and environmental protection that are not advertised for their other lenses. So for those not using L lenses on their bullet-proof camera bodies, one wonders whether or not this could be a bit of an "Achilles heal" - in terms of either damage to the lens itself, or the lens allowing whatever into the camera body.

Second is the observation about dust on the sensor. This is really confounding and counter-intuitive. You hardly changed the lens, no doubt in my mind you cleaned the sensor and surrounding area thoroughly and checked it before setting out, so what's going on? Raises a question in my mind about whether what you saw is really dust or something else, or whether there could be unreachable, dust-containing recesses in the camera body from which dust particles get released during use? Not to make a big deal of it, because such spots are usually few and far between and easily cloned-out in Photoshop.

Third, while the rules of the game for this review exclude evaluation of image quality, all rules are made to be broken, so let me proceed to do so forthwith: that image of the "Hangers" in NYC - to my mind - is a very good indicator of the kind of dynamic range one can achieve with this and likely many other high quality digital cameras. I don't know whether or not you did any luminosity blending on it, but that doesn't matter - the raw material needs to exist before even that technique becomes useful. As close an examination as one can do on a decent monitor shows very respectable tonal gradation and retention of detail in open shade and shadow areas.
Title: 5D Review
Post by: joedevico on September 23, 2005, 11:14:19 am
I have a thought - Although I agree that it's possible there are more photographers who want a dedicated mirror lockup button, There may be some logic behind Canon's decision to put a print button on the 5D.

I am a professional musician by day (by night really) and only shoot as a hobby and as a limited side business. I've played at hundreds of private events - not weddings mind you, but charity and political events when photogrpahers were shooting guests and printing 8x10 images on the spot for the guests. In the past I've seen photographers passing memory cards to an assistant with a laptop. Recently, I saw a photographer shooting WiFi and an assistant cueing and sending images to the printer. Is it possible that this market - cruise ships, private events, theme parks, etc. is the market that Canon is trying to go after with the addition of this button. The full frame coverage obviously makes shooting in narrow confines easier with non-ultrawide lenses.

Obviously wedding photographers have no real need for mirror lockup but might benefit from the print button in unique situations. It would be best if the button could be set to whatever function one would like - including mirror lockup. Apparently however Canon knows better than we. ???

Just thought you might want to know that there are plenty of pros who print on the spot and that might be the reason for the button...or not?
Title: 5D Review
Post by: Paul Sumi on September 23, 2005, 12:00:45 pm
Just thought you might want to know that there are plenty of pros who print on the spot and that might be the reason for the button...or not?

Just keep in mind, while you're pressing the "print" button you're not taking pictures.  IMO, if you have to print on the spot (especially in the high-volume situations you've cited), it's much more efficient to pass a memory card off to an assistant to print separately while the photographer keeps shooting and generating potential revenue.

I definitely agree with the others who say the print button should be programmable.

Title: 5D Review
Post by: joedevico on September 23, 2005, 12:14:50 pm

Unless this button works differently on the 5D than on the Canon P&S button, you can be tethered to a printer while shooting groups entering an area - say at a golf outing, and then press the review button and then the print button to immediately print the image (or multiple copies thereof). This is how it's done at the mall when Santa or the Easter Bunny comes to visit. Obviously you would not be walking around an event snapping images and then connecting to the printer to make the image.

Again - I'm just pointing this out to all the photographers who don't see a need for this button. Granted a customizeable button would be better or for the people on this forum a mirror lockup button.
Title: 5D Review
Post by: Jonathan Wienke on September 23, 2005, 12:33:38 pm
For on-the-spot events, I'd much rather have the wireless transmitter connected to a PC with an assistant and a printer so I can focus on shooting while someone else is dealing with selecting images and taking and fulfilling print orders. It's the same basic reason why I normally download  files with a card reader  rather than through the camera port: minmization of things that interrupt the flow of the shoot.
Title: 5D Review
Post by: joedevico on September 23, 2005, 01:44:04 pm
I agree Jonathan - Just so we're all clear - I'm just trying to give a possible reason why Canon might consider this a good function. I am in no way stating that it has any real merit in "real world photography," only in the mind of the corporate designer.

Title: 5D Review
Post by: pfogle on September 23, 2005, 03:39:36 pm
Excellent review - thank you Michael. I have just bought a 1DmarkII (last of the small LCDs! ) and after reading the review, have decided I have to have one of these. As a working photographer, you can live with the quirks of any camera as long as 1. it gives you the results you want, and 2. it has a good bright viewfinder (esp for aging eyes)

Title: 5D Review
Post by: jani on September 23, 2005, 08:37:08 pm
The battery life is very disappointing, as bad as the 1Ds and one of the reasons I was excited for the 5D.
Is it as bad when you take the battery grip (dual batteries) into account, with say, 95% improvement over a single battery?

Jani, did you ever think any further about the Kata?
Yes, I bought it, and I'm certainly going to use it when it's raining too much. I expect to get some of that in Singapore, where it rains almost every day.

But the Kata rain cover doesn't appear to be very handy when I'm walking around. I haven't had a chance to test this yet, though.
Title: 5D Review
Post by: Ben Rubinstein on September 24, 2005, 03:28:37 pm
That battery life is the same as I was getting from my 10D with battery pack and two batteries. I was hoping for 20D/1Ds mkII type battery life so I wouldn't have to carry two spares with me when shooting weddings. I have to say that if that is the true battery life of the production models then I'm sorely disappointed.