Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: John Caldwell on June 12, 2014, 07:10:26 am
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Wonder if my experience with our 4900 and 9900 extended warranties is truly aberrant, or is this a theme:
March 2013
1) 4900 2 year warranty purchased. Online registration of warranty is not offered, so the warranty card is mailed to Epson, as we are directed to do. Three months later the machine requires a total replacement, so I phone Epson Preferred Customer Support: "We have no record of your 4900 warranty purchase." Two hours later, after multiple calls and scans sent vie email, they agree I do have an extended warranty and that they much have lost the warranty registration. Two hours into the experience, they are for the first time willing to begin discussing what's wrong with my machine and, ultimately, a few days later I have a new refurb machine that, also, requires service to operate out of the box. Eventually, all is well.
Yesterday:
2) 9900 looses 3 nozzles abruptly. Time to cash in on my warranty purchase, which was registered months ago through the typical US Postal mail process. I phone Epson Preferred Customer Support: "We have no record of your 9900 warranty purchase." "This is BS", I say and "I've been through this with you before", I add with irritation. But this time it's worse: One and a half hours into my phone call, it is discovered that Epson's email service is not working, and this is why the scans of the warranty purchase I am emailing during the support call are not being received by the agent. I kid you not: Epson's email is down, so they won't even begin to discuss with me what's wrong with the 9900, let alone get a service ticket written so I can receive a site visit from Decision One. I'm told to try again today - "hopefully our email will be fixed and we'll have received your extended warranty proof that we must have lost. Then we can hear about what's wrong with your 9900 and get the investigation process started."
Aside from being pure HS, and irritating beyond, I can't help but feel this represents a deliberate stall on Epson's part to control costs. The idea that US Postal mail is the only means of proving warranty purchase, and that online registration is not allowed, is very suspect in my mind. A few years ago, Apple did not register Applecare purchased at the same time a new Apple computer was purchased. Twice, Apple had "lost" my Applecare registrations when it came time to redeem warranty work. I wrote a letter of complaint to Apple insisting that there was no possible explanation for an Applecare plan purchased with a new machine to not be automatically tied to that machine at the moment of purchase. Ultimately Apple did change their practice as a consequence of multiple similar complaints.
I am not given to conspiracy theories. This experience with Epson is unacceptable, either way, but have you encountered anything similar?
John Caldwell
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Cost control for sure - every company, all the time. Deliberate stalling, I would doubt it - doesn't make sense because they can expect savvy professional customers to persist and prevail, as you wisely did. It sounds more like incompetence in the service and support area.
As for refurbished printers not working out of the box - yes, I had three in a row from Epson - on that incident though not professional photographic printers - it was one of their higher-end office "all-in-one" machines. The eventual workout was satisfactory. When it became apparent to both me and Epson that something was wrong with the manner in which they were being refurbished, they sent me a new one, and all has been well since. I would advise to beware of refurbished printers from Epson. The quality control is evidently less than satisfactory.
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John
I had a similar experience on my 9900 on my 1st year extension. You should get a letter back from Epson with the actual warranty extension period printed. If you do not get this in about 1month after mailing the post card from Epson in then something has gone wrong.
I had to open a case and email a photo copy of the card back to Epson. It still took another month to get the actual warranty extension processed. Epson was a bit testy with me and I did have to escalate to a senior advisor. Once I got that person involved, things went pretty smoothly.
I agree this program should be upgraded to a more modern process.
Paul
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Hello John,
I know nothing of the 4900 warranty situation, but I am very familiar with the 9900 and warranty purchases. As you have described it this must be a fairly recent move by Epson. In my case I had a rather bad experience with the 9900 during the first year of operation, which prompted me to extend the warranty. After the second year and a diminishing number of issues I decided to renew the warranty for one last time, since that would not be possible again, as you know. The last warranty expired approximately two years ago, but during the warranty period and renewals I was never asked to send the warranty card. All of that was done online then, including the initial registration and warranty information. Referring to your experience, I would surmise that due to the unreliability of Epson's email server, they have had to resort to the old fashioned method, the reg card. And hopefully that gets lost in the snail-mail as well as far as Epson is concerned. I will say that since I have been paying a lot more attention to the humidity factor, and the fact that the 9900 had numerous service calls and part replacements during the first two warranty periods, it has been working very well for the past couple of years. Of course there are still "clogs", which I think are likely not "clogs" but instead cart pressure issues, as well as complete channel dropouts occasionally, but all of that can be taken care of in Service mode with better results than in regular mode. At least that has been my experience. And of course keeping the wiper in good condition is another factor not to be ignored.
I don't have any way of knowing if this is a ploy by Epson to delay the inevitable service calls necessary with some printers, but I will admit that reverting to the registration card mail-in does seem to be a rather suspicious move on their part. I hope you have at least enjoyed some satisfaction with your "new" refurbed 4900 and that the "clogging" issue with the 9900 will be taken care of with little effort. Certainly one does not want to see D1 at the door any more often than is absolutely necessary. For various reasons which shall not be mentioned by me. Been there......
Gary
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Thanks to all. The Epson support rep insisted that they feel the mail-in warranty is often prone to "lost registration" and they receive quite a bit of ear thrashing with people on the phone.
When my 4900 and 9900 are completely out of warranty, I will be nervous all the time. They just haven't been reliable machines in my hands. I'm well aware that others feel we hear only from the vocal minority, and that without a rigorous statistical analysis of incidence of failures as a portion of units sold, no statements regarding true reliability can be made. Formally trained as an engineer and as a physician, I agree. Informally trained as a human and as a consumer, I don't trust the 900 machines.
I hope my machines' kinks are all worked out at the end of the two years of warranty extension.
John Caldwell
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The ear=thrashing probably depends on whether their staff is properly trained to handle these situations with intelligence and sensitivity, and that depends on the resources the company puts into training. When your warranties expire, the alternatives become very clear: when the cost of repairs begins to exceed the carrying cost of a new printer, you buy the new printer, and whether it should be an Epson printer depends on the hardware and support available at the time.
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All I can say is that my experience with both Canon and HP is that I never went longer than 24 hours for them to come out and fix the problem, and problems were rare. I never had to fight with these guys like I did with Epson and then have decision one come out and screw it up worse. They just did their job.
How do you go into the service mode with the 9900? I have a missing channel in my 9890 that I want to clear and no cleanings have worked. Since I"m out of warranty I wouldn't even think of calling Epson to discuss it. I don't want to go to all the expense and hassle of replacing the dampers unless absolutely necessary.
john
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How do you go into the service mode with the 9900?
john
Turn the printer off, turn it back on while holding down the OK, Menu, and paper feed(bottom button)
You can release the buttons once you see an image in the LCD.
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The ear-thrashing probably depends on whether their staff is properly trained to handle these situations with intelligence and sensitivity, and that depends on the resources the company puts into training. When your warranties expire, the alternatives become very clear: when the cost of repairs begins to exceed the carrying cost of a new printer, you buy the new printer, and whether it should be an Epson printer depends on the hardware and support available at the time.
I should have added to the above: "cost of repair" also includes indirect costs, such as the value of your time lost in not being able to print (if commercial) and the time you waste managing the service process.
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You should get a letter back from Epson with the actual warranty extension period printed. If you do not get this in about 1month after mailing the post card from Epson in then something has gone wrong.
I purchased a 2 year extended warranty on my 3880 from Epson 5 months ago and I haven't received a letter or anything acknowledging the extended warranty from Epson. Have other people received written confirmation? If so, I will have to go after them.
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... I haven't received a letter or anything acknowledging the extended warranty from Epson...
That's a sign that Epson has no record of your extended warranty, according to what I have been told by Epson and according to my experience x 2.
Consider:
1) Settling the matter before you have a problem and need service
2) Setting sometime aside when you are in a very tolerant mood
3) Have a copy of the warranty you sent in ready to fax or email. If you don't have the warranty card, the sales receipt for the warranty will suffice
4) Have a copy of the sales recipient for the printer ready to fax or email. You need this to substantiate that you purchased the warranty within 12 months of the printer purchase date.
5) You'll need the printer serial number
6) You'll need your warranty serial number
7) Hope that Epson is receiving email the day you call. If Epson's email is not working, hope their fax machine is working.
Sounds snide I'm sure, but Epson required exactly this of me for both our 4900 & 9900 machines. Really a poor show from a CS standpoint.
John-
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John:
I'll relate my own experience with Epson, which indicates real dysfunction in the agencies that handle such items for Epson. When I bought a 4800, there was a mail-in rebate. After a period of time, I had not received my rebate and called Epson. They instructed me to FAX my documents. Ultimately, I received two rebates and when I called about this, Epson thought I had two 4800s (with the same serial number).
Tom
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Perfect.
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That's a sign that Epson has no record of your extended warranty, according to what I have been told by Epson and according to my experience x 2.
Consider:
1) Settling the matter before you have a problem and need service
2) Setting sometime aside when you are in a very tolerant mood
3) Have a copy of the warranty you sent in ready to fax or email. If you don't have the warranty card, the sales receipt for the warranty will suffice
4) Have a copy of the sales recipient for the printer ready to fax or email. You need this to substantiate that you purchased the warranty within 12 months of the printer purchase date.
5) You'll need the printer serial number
6) You'll need your warranty serial number
7) Hope that Epson is receiving email the day you call. If Epson's email is not working, hope their fax machine is working.
Sounds snide I'm sure, but Epson required exactly this of me for both our 4900 & 9900 machines. Really a poor show from a CS standpoint.
John-
I contacted Epson Technical Support Chat, the 2 year extended warranty for my printer is in effect and the dates, etc are correct. The person on the other end couldn't offer an explanation as why I didn't get an acknowledgement by mail.
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Anything less than perfect Customer Support from Epson should be reported to the selling dealer. If they can't immediately get results, ask for the phone number for that dealer's Epson Sales Rep.
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Really sorry to hear this sad experience you had, John and to read the entire thread with your frustration with Epson is quite concerning. Very unhappy to hear about all this. I own a Epson R3800, smaller than yours and probably about as old, I still use it today, thus I also am a Epson customer. Epson must surely realize that stories such as your experience will be shared with other print people(i.e, customers) and it surely is not in their best interest to treat customers, and of highly priced printers, in such a way as you were treated. Very disrespectful of them.
Hang in there, and I must say that I am very pleased with my 1 year old Canon ipf 6400 and 3 month old Pro-1, if you decide to replace your 4900 or 9900, I am very happy with Canon and with the few calls that I have made to ask questions and get support on firmware updates' questions.
Sincerely, Debra
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I contacted Epson Technical Support Chat, the 2 year extended warranty for my printer is in effect and the dates, etc are correct. The person on the other end couldn't offer an explanation as why I didn't get an acknowledgement by mail.
Jay. I would still ask for a hard copy of The warranty extension. Next time you call when you need work done odds are 50/50 Epson won't find the same info. It's happened to me on my 9900 2 times.
Paul
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Thank you for the advice. I will see if I can make some progress with them by telephone.
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9900 looses 3 nozzles abruptly. Time to cash in on my warranty purchase,
Sounds like a pretty minor problem to me, I assume there was more to it than that?
Regarding extended warranties, did you buy it through a dealer? I think buying them through a dealer can be helpful, provides solid documentation and the dealer will back you up in case of problems.
We've sold many epsons, quite a few with extended warranties, and haven't heard of any of our customers with an experience similar to yours.
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I don't have an extended warranty on any of the three Epsons I have. I would guess if I did buy an extended warranty, that my cancelled check or Visa statement would show the warranty purchase if Epson wanted to dispute it?
I did buy and extended warranty once on a appliance, and the dealer (who also was the local warranty servicer) went out of business once I needed it. Refrigerator, fwiw.
Seems a lot will try and wiggle out of a warranty if they can. I had a popular memory card outfit pull that too buy saying "The memory card I bought was pirated and therefore not covered." The guy didn't know what to say when I told him "That's interesting as I bought it directly off your website." Got an emailed return FedEx stamp and got a new card.
SG
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Sounds like a pretty minor problem to me, I assume there was more to it than that?
How do you mean, Wayne? Complete and abrupt loss of three nozzles that don't respond to the usual steps sounds like an unusable printer to me. Maybe you're just saying that there is nothing more than to involve Decision One at Epson's expense, in which case I agree. But that's where the rub came, of course.
Regarding extended warranties, did you buy it through a dealer? I think buying them through a dealer can be helpful, provides solid documentation and the dealer will back you up in case of problems.
We've sold many epsons, quite a few with extended warranties, and haven't heard of any of our customers with an experience similar to yours.
Sure the warranty was bought from an Epson dealer, the same dealer that sold us the 9900. Remember that by the time you have substantiated the authenticity of a warranty in situations like this, the customer has a few hours of non-productive time invested in the dispute alone. Only later can you actually begin to discuss what's wrong with the printer. For some customers, that's not OK.
It's of course good that you've not heard of any similar Epson service experiences, but I think Paul and I are pretty sure of what we experienced. Again without a rigorous statistical analysis of bad incidents vs. total number of warranties sold, we can't say whether there is a real problem, or just a perceived problem by those who have been affected.
John Caldwell
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yelp.com works if enough people use it. Copy/paste your episode into a Yelp review. Reference the business you bought it from, or reference Epson corporate.
Yelp worked for me with a car issue. Most car dealers review Yelp every day.
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Complete and abrupt loss of three nozzles that don’t respond to the usual steps sounds like an unusable printer to me.
Well, most missing nozzles are “abrupt”, and your original message simply said after loosing 3 nozzles you called for warranty service. Nothing about subsequent steps (which I did state I assumed this had happened).
3 missing nozzles, even in the same color, in most cases is undetectable in printed output - just depends on the nozzles and the output. So I was curious if it was more to it than that (thinking perhaps you meant 3 channels abruptly stopped)
But regardless, 3 missing nozzles that cannot be restored at all is a concern and the issues you have with getting acknowledgement of the extended warranty certainly is inexcusable.
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Indeed, Wayne, I misspoke. The channels are completely gone, and unresponsive to cleanings: C, Y and PK. Decision 1 is onsite now, and replacing the capping station and head. Grateful for the warranty, of course.
John-
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Indeed, Wayne, I misspoke. The channels are completely gone, and unresponsive to cleanings: C, Y and PK. Decision 1 is onsite now, and replacing the capping station and head. Grateful for the warranty, of course.
John-
Hi John, do let us know whether the work they do succeeds - as you know there have been "mixed reviews" about the performance of that company.
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Indeed, Wayne, I misspoke. The channels are completely gone, and unresponsive to cleanings: C, Y and PK. Decision 1 is onsite now, and replacing the capping station and head. Grateful for the warranty, of course.
John-
glad things are working out better at the moment. Odd for a head to die like that, normally dropping a full channel or more is a damper problem, but as you mentioned as long as you have the warranty, getting a new head works out well.
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Mark, Decision One visited yesterday. The tech made no effort to make any diagnosis other than to print a nozzle check that was consistent with my nozzle checks, meaning depicting loss of three channels. He replaced the head and the capping station. No effort was made to see if the head alone, would have solved the problem. I suppose there really would be no way the detect the role of the capping station in my problem, out side of observing the new head for some period under the the original capping station.
The capping station is replaced as what I'll call an en bloc unit, meaning that associated parts like the wiper and housing are all replaced in one module. The tech did not replace any parts pertaining to the compressors that generate ink line pressure.
The tech was onsite for three hours. Aside from two pairs cleaning that were needed to clear residual air, after the D1 tech left the site, the 9900 seems all right. The D1 tech is a very nice and accommodating fellow. I can't speak to his familiarity with printing per se, meaning the way we discuss the subject here. Clearly he has been through Epson's formal training.
John Caldwell
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Thanks John, that all sounds as one would expect. He changed the assemblies they thought needed changing and if your printer now works you are in good shape - so far. Let us hope that remains so. I think the most important insurance policy at your end going forward would be to make substantive prints with it at least every few days and maintain it within Epson's recommended humidity range. Perhaps you were already doing this before the trouble, but I mention it because these are two most important factors that keep resurfacing in respect of keeping these printers in good condition.
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Good to hear you back to normal.
Most of the techs really can’t do any diagnostics, they are trained the exact procedures of removing and replacing parts. replacing the capping station is pretty standard procedure for any head replacement. Don’t want to risk messing up a new head with a messy capping station.
As Mark suggested, maintaining 45% humidity is the most proactive step anyone can take for ANY inkjet printer ... to lessen clogs or extend head life in a Canon or an HP printer. I’ve been running a humidifier with a self filling feature for over a year now with my 9900, and I’ve only had to perform about 4 or 5 minor nozzle cleans. And I don’t print that often, sometimes going over a couple of weeks between printing.
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As Mark suggested, maintaining 45% humidity is the most proactive step anyone can take for ANY inkjet printer ... to lessen clogs or extend head life in a Canon or an HP printer.
Also consider the needs of the media. 45% is a shower for some films that will cause edge curling... head crashes, etc.
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Also consider the needs of the media. 45% is a shower for some films that will cause edge curling... head crashes, etc.
Possibly, but I've found papers are easier to work with and better since I installed the humidifier.
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I really feel that the humidity issue may not have as much to do in preventing clogs, as living in Arkansas with 100% humidity most of the year, I have had plenty of clogging issues with my 9900, just many users seem to have. I don't use a humidifier here as on average expect winter (3 months) the humidity will be 80 to 100% on average. My printer is now close to 4 years old and is used daily.
Sure I run an AC in the house, but they only do so much and for sure are not pulling 100% of the humidity out of the house. I figure I am easily in the 45 to 55% humidity range here.
In 4 years, my main issue has always been the totally dropping of one entire channel, most times after a couple of prints, where everything was fine in the previous prints. This always seems to be more prevalent after a PK to MK change. My feelings are this is more of an electrical issue, something going on in the ink delivery system, maybe in the channels leading to the head or possibly the dampers.
John, glad to see D One got you back online.
Paul