Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: DaniArt on May 22, 2014, 09:30:13 am
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Hi All :)
Long time lurker here, finally signed up to post.
I'll jump right in...
I'm an artist who works with a gallery, and I print B+W digital art on matte fine art paper. I currently use the Epson 2880, but it's a bit too small, and I'm in need of an upgrade. I know many of you have the Canon ipf6400 and love that it's hassle free mostly, but there have been some complaints about sheet feeding and the overall quality of the print lacking when compared to the Epson.
I guess I'd just like a few opinions... Is the ipf6400 a good choice for 24" B+W gallery prints on matte paper? Does anyone have experience with this combo (a non gloss paper, and b+w together)?
(Also, I should note that the Epson I use now does not work well with matte paper at ALL. The darker the gray/black on the paper, the grainier the image (and I work with really good photos)).
Thanks in advance!
Dan
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Get an old 24" Epson (9600, 9800 or 9880 will all do nicely) and run either MIS Eboni inks or Piezography inks through them.
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for me I had the epson 7600 . I went to a hp z3100 much better and it profiles papers. ink heads can be replace cheaply and it sips ink where as the epson 7600 is like a vampire . I would go for the newer z 3200 but the 3100 has been great for me . Also no special inks needed for B&W very neutral.
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Get an old 24" Epson (9600, 9800 or 9880 will all do nicely) and run either MIS Eboni inks or Piezography inks through them.
Those are 44" printers, but the general idea is a good one.
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Replace '9' with '7'...
Still, a second-hand 9800 will cost less than a new 7900 or 7890.
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for me I had the epson 7600 . I went to a hp z3100 much better and it profiles papers. ink heads can be replace cheaply and it sips ink where as the epson 7600 is like a vampire . I would go for the newer z 3200 but the 3100 has been great for me . Also no special inks needed for B&W very neutral.
The 3100 is better at B&W than the 3200.
That said, I have both a Z3100 and a converted Epson 3880 to Piezography and I would recommend going the Piezography route if I wanted a dedicated B&W printer. The range of tones you get out of a Piezography system is amazing, especially on matte papers.
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MIS Eboni will give more neutral tones than Piezography Carbon on matte paper. But it can't print on glossy.
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The 3100 is better then the 3200 at Black and white seems odd same inks but if you have used both you would know. I have had very bad luck with 3 rd party inks has anyone used these inks pizeo or MIS and had trouble?
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You guys are awesome, thank you so much for the informative replies.
How'd I forget about the HP printers? Duly noted that the 3100 is better for black and white. Does it make a difference that the "tone" I prefer in my black and whites is more reminiscent of a pencil portrait? A little cooler, not as warm I guess...
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You guys are awesome, thank you so much for the informative replies.
How'd I forget about the HP printers? Duly noted that the 3100 is better for black and white. Does it make a difference that the "tone" I prefer in my black and whites is more reminiscent of a pencil portrait? A little cooler, not as warm I guess...
The PK, Gray + Light Gray inks of the Z3100-Z3200 are neutral if not a bit cool on some papers. The Matte Black ink warmer than that but there are media preset choices for matte papers that use all four inks (Quad) and the somewhat warmer MK is then used dense enough that it is no issue. Both in the B&W mode and the color mode a greyscale or neutral RGB image will only use the (MK), PK, Gray, Light Gray inks. In the B&W mode you can add the color ink toning with the Advanced settings in the driver. Printing from Qimage Ultimate I prefer color mode in the driver for color toning greyscale files with custom QU filters, gives better visual feedback and nothing changes the (16 bit) file itself. There is more to it.
The Z3100 is basically more linear than the Z3200 and can achieve better Dmax (at least with the media presets I tried). A good starting point to build extra linearity + QTR B&W profiling on top. A secondhand Z3100 24" will not be expensive but should have a new belt. It adds the gloss enhancer for gloss work. Be aware that if your prints are 90% B&W you still have to load the other 7 inks and half the heads will not be used much which may be costly in maintenance etc.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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If interested in printing only fine art B&W images, I strongly suggest a Piezography solution.
:)
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You guys are awesome, thank you so much for the informative replies.
How'd I forget about the HP printers? Duly noted that the 3100 is better for black and white. Does it make a difference that the "tone" I prefer in my black and whites is more reminiscent of a pencil portrait? A little cooler, not as warm I guess...
If you only want to print black-and-white, you want either MIS Eboni or Piezography. No colour inkset can even come close in terms of tonal range, detail and longevity.
I'd suggest the pure carbon options - the MIS EB6 inkset or Piezography Carbon. These use exactly the same pigment as found in a pencil portrait - pure carbon/graphite - and will never fade. You can display them in direct sunlight, or even outdoors (as long as they're protected from wind, rain, etc.). There are other non-pure-carbon inksets within the MIS and Piezography lineups, but these have a tendency to fade towards a nasty green hue, sometimes relatively quickly.
EB6 is more-or-less neutral, with a slight hint of warmth - very similar in tone to pencil on drawing paper. How warm or cool it appears depends mostly on what paper you use. Piezography Carbon is warmer - perhaps a third of the way between true neutral and a sepia-toned print - but can print on glossy paper.
That said, if you must stick to an OEM solution, black-and-white output using HP's ABW mode is better than that of Epson or Canon. But it won't be nearly as good as a dedicated black-and-white system and will be more expensive to set up (since you can run MIS/Piezography using older printers just as well as newer models) and to run (cheaper ink).
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The best bang for your buck will be the HP z3100. I have one I use exclusively for B&W printing. Outstanding results.
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+1
Great printer for B/W. Get a belt as Ernst says.
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Giclee.... Really???
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If you only want to print black-and-white, you want either MIS Eboni or Piezography. No colour inkset can even come close in terms of tonal range, detail and longevity.
This statement needs to be qualified somewhat. The Piezography "Carbon Sepia" and the more recent "Carbon K7" sets are indeed full carbon pigment ink sets, and as such they are more lightfast than OEM color sets even when the OEM inks are run in full grayscale or "advanced B&W" modes. But the OEM B&W modes are significantly more lightfast than other Piezography shades like "selenium", "neutral", "warm" etc., on just about any media. The Piezography full carbon pigment is considerably warmer than the MIS Eboni full carbon on most media, so Cone achieves his more neutral Piezography shades by blending cyan and magenta pigments into the mix. The magenta drops out first, causing the print to eventually turn more greenish-gray in appearance. Greenish-gray tones in B&W prints are not a visually acceptable outcome for most folks. The light fade resistance of the cooler Piezography shades is therefore only moderate at best and also more sensitive to choice of media as well when compared to B&W prints made using OEM inks and OEM driver settings.
That said, as long as the print collector knows that not all Piezography prints are highly lightfast and therefore takes care in choosing illumination levels and/or managing the time on display, then the more conservative display policies will allow the more neutral toned Piezography prints to last many generations before noticeably turning more greenish gray. Failure to implement smart illumination/display policies for the cooler toned Piezography ink sets will indeed result in greenish-gray prints more than likely within one's own lifetime.
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Giclee.... Really???
Why, sure! Don't you know that if you call a print "giclee" instead of "inkjet" you can charge twice as much? LOL!
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Question is if you do go to the Canon, can you use any optional B&W inks in it? When I was looking at the Canon ipf6450, the sales guy said no refillable inks where able to be used in it other than the Canon inks. I was wanting for for dye-sub ink, but that idea got scratched too. I dunno, but the Canon might leave you out of the Piezeo or MIS ink field over the ever-clogging Epsons. Different inks.
My understanding is the MIS inks are actually a colored ink close to what was pulled from the printer, whereas the Piezeos are more shades of black with small traces of color added for the tint. Hence the two are not compatible as easily in some print programs where the OEM driver is called in (MIS Ebonies may be more forgiving there?).
One thing I have noticed is that between a RIP like QTR, and software like Qimage Ulitmate, QTR isn't sharp at all over Qimage's sharpness. Wish the Qimage guy would make a B&W RIP program and incorporate whatever sharpness algorithm he uses in it.
SG
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MIS sells a number of different inksets, including some color ones. MIS's "Eboni-6" is 100% carbon pigment. On a paper like Epson Hot Press Natural it will give you a quite neutral image. On some papers it'll be warmer. I also print with it on Arches watercolor (uncoated) paper. I've written up the setup I use at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-EbHP-2013.pdf . I have links there to profiles and the MIS (aka inksupply.com) sources.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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Question is if you do go to the Canon, can you use any optional B&W inks in it? When I was looking at the Canon ipf6450, the sales guy said no refillable inks where able to be used in it other than the Canon inks. I was wanting for for dye-sub ink, but that idea got scratched too. I dunno, but the Canon might leave you out of the Piezeo or MIS ink field over the ever-clogging Epsons. Different inks.
One thing I have noticed is that between a RIP like QTR, and software like Qimage Ulitmate, QTR isn't sharp at all over Qimage's sharpness. Wish the Qimage guy would make a B&W RIP program and incorporate whatever sharpness algorithm he uses in it.
SG
For thermal head printers like the Canon iPF and Z models it should be possible to load them with Vivera MK + PK + PK dilutions. Several Canon iPF CAD models have just 6 channels, two of them are used for MK though and there is a two component chemistry between MK and Cyan ink on matte papers one has to cope with. Photoshop curves can be used for partitioning the quad/pentatone inkset then. The Photoshop curves + QTR linearisation can be casted in an ICC B&W profile for the combination of the Canon driver + Qimage Ultimate. There is an HP Officejet 4 channel printer on my desk here that has that approach and works for several years now. The only thing needed is someone with the courage to go that route on a larger machine whether HP or Canon. The 4/6 picoliter Z2100 etc 8 channel models, the 4 picoliter D120 etc 6 channel models are candidates too.
QTR on Windows should get the form factor of a normal Windows printer driver and still keep its RIP versatility. In that case you can use Qimage Ultimate or any application that uses normal Windows printer drivers for printing. The open source character of QTR could be used by any smart developer to get there, QTR Gui was also made that way.
There is way more possible than what we have already in open source, DIY and third party B&W solutions but few dare to go these routes.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Ernst,
Do you know anyone who has tried to dilute the Vivera set and put them in a Z printer with something like 6 or 7 gray channels plus pleny of super stable vivera color inks for toning? Now this would be the Ultimate solution for permanence and beauty of neutralized rendering with superior dmax as well.
I'm still thinking about doing it if I can ever afford to do without my Z for color. I'm considering a Z3200 just for color and convert my 3100 to that. I still like to have that option for color. Studio Print supports the Z for this partitioning. It's just a matter of mixing the inks from the light gray channel. HP could have created such a killer monochrome machine but they don't care. I hope we'll have access to these inks and parts for awhile longer. They are still selling the 3200.
How many years do they have to make parts and inks available after discontinuing a model? This is really a great printer for such a light weight little thing.
The bw prints out of TBW on the Cannons use only three shades of gray and are more neutral than the Z on fiber gloss media or matt media without slight toning necessary, and with better surface smoothness on the papers I use. TBW allows you to linearize much more effectively. Trying to use the Canon driver for bw sucks.
john
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John,
No, I do not know someone who did that. As written I have done it on an HP Officejet with thermal heads. I did advise someone in Belgium to use a similar inkset (HP Vivera pigment + EU ink medium) on an Epson R3000 to make it easier than imports of quad inks from the US and it worked well. I would not be afraid to do so with a Z2100 or a similar model if and that is a big IF there was a reliable alternative cart chip solution to make refilling possible. I have tried and the solutions are not reliable in my experience. Not on the Z3100/Z3200/B9180. For one reason or another the printer starts complaining, goes on strike too often. The choices in smaller droplet size HP Designjets are limited too. The ink buffers in HP and Canon heads are something you have to deal with too, it takes more ink before the quad inks are free of traces of the old inks. Epsons have less buffer there (so have to keep more ink in empty carts :-)
TBW on the Canons should be extended to the Canon iPF CAD models like the iPF640. I asked the Bowhaus boys, never got an answer. They could make fine custom quad models, 6 channel, 4 picoliter droplet and it would not surprise me if one could load Vivera inks as well. 12 channel models solely used for B&W work is over the top in my opinion.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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I haven't seen anyone diluting HP inks into more fractions, but I've seen one better - mixing HP inks into MIS Eboni carbon inks to neutralise and/or tone them.
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There are a couple of companies that make clones of the Vivera carts - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/large-format-ink-cartridge-hp70-for-hp-designjet-Z3100-Z3100PS-Z3200-Z3200PS-with-chips/1418497881.html
How you fill them I have no idea. They are doing it with their 3rd party inks and have done that for several years now.
I'm not sure what you are saying about the droplet size though with the HP driver. You are saying the various color channels have different droplet sizes? Studio Print does support these printers and has a lot of control over how the ink is delivered. That is the way I would do it, if I ever do it. It would be a monochrome printer only.
When compared to K7 there is a significant difference in the dimensionality of the tonal distribution across the spectrum. High values do need more very light grays for finest results.
As to mixing Vivera with Ebony K6 what I would be very concerned about is pigment separation both in the carts and in the printer heads and lines. That sounds dangerous to me, but it could be beautiful. It's a lot easier to pull off in a small desktop unit than a 44" large format. My problem with that would be using Epson printers again. I'm just sick of them. Even my 9890 which is only two years old has dropped a channel. If I were doing color with it I'd be screwed.
John
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As to mixing Vivera with Ebony K6 what I would be very concerned about is pigment separation both in the carts and in the printer heads and lines. That sounds dangerous to me, but it could be beautiful. It's a lot easier to pull off in a small desktop unit than a 44" large format. My problem with that would be using Epson printers again. I'm just sick of them. Even my 9890 which is only two years old has dropped a channel. If I were doing color with it I'd be screwed.
John
I believe Paul Roark has been doing it with success.
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By the way, if you're printing your own B&W images, I would not insult them by using the nonsense (BS) term "giclee." :) I'm very proud to call my B&W prints carbon pigment prints.
Take a look at page 2 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf for a brief summary of some fade test data compiled from Mark's excellent work at http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ . You'll see why I don't want to hide behind some marketing term.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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These Ebony fade tests from a couple of year ago are for a tri-tone ink formulation. Is there any test for a 6 channel Ebony ink set? I see a lot of the problems occurring in the lighter value blends in some of the other inks tested.
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By the way, if you're printing your own B&W images, I would not insult them by using the nonsense (BS) term "giclee." :) I'm very proud to call my B&W prints carbon pigment prints.
Take a look at page 2 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf for a brief summary of some fade test data compiled from Mark's excellent work at http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ . You'll see why I don't want to hide behind some marketing term.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
I find the words carbon pigment prints just as gimmicky as giclee, both are just marketing terms which the general public have zero knowledge about. What's wrong with B&W photographs?
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I haven't seen anyone diluting HP inks into more fractions, but I've seen one better - mixing HP inks into MIS Eboni carbon inks to neutralise and/or tone them.
About four years ago Paul Roark mentioned the possibility to dilute Vivera PK ink for use in Epson printers, something I considered too at that time. This was discussed in the Digital B&W The Print forum. Paul then used a MIS ink medium to make that possible on piëzo printers. Some years ago I did the same for the first time for an HP thermal head printer with an OCP ink medium for thermal heads.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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There are a couple of companies that make clones of the Vivera carts - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/large-format-ink-cartridge-hp70-for-hp-designjet-Z3100-Z3100PS-Z3200-Z3200PS-with-chips/1418497881.html
How you fill them I have no idea. They are doing it with their 3rd party inks and have done that for several years now.
I'm not sure what you are saying about the droplet size though with the HP driver. You are saying the various color channels have different droplet sizes? Studio Print does support these printers and has a lot of control over how the ink is delivered. That is the way I would do it, if I ever do it. It would be a monochrome printer only.
When compared to K7 there is a significant difference in the dimensionality of the tonal distribution across the spectrum. High values do need more very light grays for finest results.
As to mixing Vivera with Ebony K6 what I would be very concerned about is pigment separation both in the carts and in the printer heads and lines. That sounds dangerous to me, but it could be beautiful. It's a lot easier to pull off in a small desktop unit than a 44" large format. My problem with that would be using Epson printers again. I'm just sick of them. Even my 9890 which is only two years old has dropped a channel. If I were doing color with it I'd be screwed.
John
I tried separate PCBs that intercept the signals from the main board to the cart chips, the cart chips play no role then. It worked for some weeks. Had two sets, in total four. Used them on both the Z3100 and Z3200, it was a disaster. The Chinese company didn't reply when I complained. The intention was not to abandon HP Vivera inks on the printers but to be able to use ink from bigger Vivera carts, have no printer complaints about expired inks and as a trial for a shift to custom B&W inks. I used the original carts. Third party carts for Z models are usually aiming at 8 channel models like the Z2100. I have refillable carts on a B9180, same inks, chip trouble and I think the printer would work better with carts that have the membrane pump like the HP originals have. The refillable carts on the HP Officejet actually work well despite the absence of pumps.
The HP Z models have channels with fixed size 4 and 6 picoliter droplets. Comparing the 8 channel models with the 12 channel models the MK channel on the Z3200 is 4 pl while it is 6 pl on the Z2100. Z3200 Magenta + Yellow is 6 pl, Blue + Green is 6 pl the rest 4pl.
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Thanks Ernst. I think I will not go there. Sounds horrific.
john
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These Ebony fade tests from a couple of year ago are for a tri-tone ink formulation. Is there any test for a 6 channel Ebony ink set? I see a lot of the problems occurring in the lighter value blends in some of the other inks tested.
If it's 100% carbon, it's not going to fade regardless of how much you dilute it - I think the tests with Piezography Carbon, and the fact that carbon scores a 9 or 'off the chart' on the Blue Wool scale, have made that pretty clear.
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If they are 100% carbon, and I don't doubt they are, I still wonder why why Cone's K7 carbon is quite a bit warmer, while the Ebony is a warm-neutral hue. I never found the answer to that. What could be causing that difference in degree of warmness?
The two tests up there of the Piezography K6 and Quad sepia inks that have reached 200 megalux are very slightly better than the Ebony at 180 megalux but it's not enough to even consider, at that degree of exposure, especially since one of each of those tests were not even using a uv coat. And they both beat anything else tested in the inkjet world and show no visible signs of change.
j
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Size of the carbon particles can make a color difference and the way the carbon particle is created resulting in different surface to weight/volume ratios.
http://www.cabot-corp.com/wcm/download/en-us/ij/Pigments%20for%20Inkjet.pdf
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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Wow, lots of new replies and new info! Duly noted to all.
Shot in the dark question here (hope someone can help):
Any chance anyone know a company who'll let me, um, lease the Canon as opposed to outright buying it? I know, unheard of for an individual... they do it for companies all the time, but for some reason I can't find one who'll work with me on this.
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Regarding Eboni-6 and diluting HP Z3200 PK, I use this combination in an Epson 7800 and have used them in other printers for quite a few years now. For the 7800 setup, see http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-EbHP-2013.pdf
Eb6 has not been formally tested in its full dilute form, but with carbon pigments in general, dilution does not impact its lightfastness. I did analyze the http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ test of Jon's carbon set with this in mind and posted the results in the appendix (last page) of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf . (Frankly, the concern about dilute inks doing worse on fade tests seems to come from the old style dyes. Even Claria light inks hold up essentially as well as the darker versions.) Carbon is such a solid pigment for high end B&W, it seems odd to me that more serious B&W photographers are not using it. It's their loss. When you also consider how well Eboni-6 can print on Arches (uncoated) Hot Press (or Cold Press) watercolor paper, thus avoiding the coating weaknesses, the inkset is rather compelling.
As to the HP PK, I use the generic dilution base version C6b for diluting it for Epson printers. MIS sells this pre-mixed at http://www.inksupply.com/roarkslab.cfm .
(Don't use version C6a, it was for the 7500 only. BTW, I make no money on all of these mixes that MIS commercializes. I have used these bases for years with never any negative issues. The formulas are all published and open. The one warning I'd make for those mixing from scratch is to use fresh distilled water and 99.7% glycerol.)
Back to the HP PK, note that the HP pigment inks print well in all the Epson printers I've tested them in. (That does not include the 3880.) The OEM HP Gray and light gray are a bit cooler than the PK-diluted versions.
I would not mix the Eb6 and HP pigments in a single ink. Different electrostatic coatings on different pigment types can accelerate separation. I avoid any mixing of different pigments within a single ink when the target is wide format. The inks mixing on the parking pad is not a problem. They are compatible, but presumably have different electrostatic signatures in the suspension.
(I have not tested an Eb6 - HP blend in a single ink. My experience/conclusions come from years of mixing and testing MIS and other companies' carbon + color blends for neutral B&W desktop printer inksets, where the movement of the ink carts with the head assembly avoids the separation issues with continuous agitation. Note that my "generic" base formula is very specifically made to avoid incompatibilities, and it does so very well. Note also that in a centrifuge test of settlement rate, the HP dilution with the generic base settles more slowly than the OEM HP Gray -- no magic, just slightly higher viscosity.)
Hope this is useful.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/
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Wow, lots of new replies and new info! Duly noted to all.
Shot in the dark question here (hope someone can help):
Any chance anyone know a company who'll let me, um, lease the Canon as opposed to outright buying it? I know, unheard of for an individual... they do it for companies all the time, but for some reason I can't find one who'll work with me on this.
Little late to answer this, but local Canon printer or office machine sales might hold the answer.
However, the lease can be twice that of the machine. Local camera shop had a large Epson that clogged up over a holiday. They took it in for service and it needed about $2,400 in parts, and some parts were no longer made so the owner got a Canon ipF8400 on a $160/mo. lease for 6 years as a replacement. The shop sold again and the new owner was upset with the lease. I was going to take it over until I found they still wanted to charge the full lease payment on a one year old machine. New one was half that on sale. Weird, but all the old shop owner saw was "Cheap monthly payments" no matter if it was double the price. New shop owner bought an Epson 9900 too and told "Canon to come and get the leased one." Sounds like the leasing company is going after the original owner who signed the lease too.
It was some independent lease company and not Canon too.
SG
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My problem with that would be using Epson printers again. I'm just sick of them. Even my 9890 which is only two years old has dropped a channel. If I were doing color with it I'd be screwed.
John
I agree and have dropped them long ago. They never have tackled the issues from a fresh and different hardware perspective, only random cleaning checks.
I won't buy and Epson until that is handled.
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The 3100 is better at B&W than the 3200.
That said, I have both a Z3100 and a converted Epson 3880 to Piezography and I would recommend going the Piezography route if I wanted a dedicated B&W printer. The range of tones you get out of a Piezography system is amazing, especially on matte papers.
When you run Piezography inks through the Epson does it give error messages?
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If you only want to print black-and-white, you want either MIS Eboni or Piezography. No colour inkset can even come close in terms of tonal range, detail and longevity.
I'd suggest the pure carbon options - the MIS EB6 inkset or Piezography Carbon. These use exactly the same pigment as found in a pencil portrait - pure carbon/graphite - and will never fade. You can display them in direct sunlight, or even outdoors (as long as they're protected from wind, rain, etc.). There are other non-pure-carbon inksets within the MIS and Piezography lineups, but these have a tendency to fade towards a nasty green hue, sometimes relatively quickly.
EB6 is more-or-less neutral, with a slight hint of warmth - very similar in tone to pencil on drawing paper. How warm or cool it appears depends mostly on what paper you use. Piezography Carbon is warmer - perhaps a third of the way between true neutral and a sepia-toned print - but can print on glossy paper.
That said, if you must stick to an OEM solution, black-and-white output using HP's ABW mode is better than that of Epson or Canon. But it won't be nearly as good as a dedicated black-and-white system and will be more expensive to set up (since you can run MIS/Piezography using older printers just as well as newer models) and to run (cheaper ink).
Does Piezography matte black smudge more than Epson pigment inks?
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This statement needs to be qualified somewhat. The Piezography "Carbon Sepia" and the more recent "Carbon K7" sets are indeed full carbon pigment ink sets, and as such they are more lightfast than OEM color sets even when the OEM inks are run in full grayscale or "advanced B&W" modes. But the OEM B&W modes are significantly more lightfast than other Piezography shades like "selenium", "neutral", "warm" etc., on just about any media. The Piezography full carbon pigment is considerably warmer than the MIS Eboni full carbon on most media, so Cone achieves his more neutral Piezography shades by blending cyan and magenta pigments into the mix. The magenta drops out first, causing the print to eventually turn more greenish-gray in appearance. Greenish-gray tones in B&W prints are not a visually acceptable outcome for most folks. The light fade resistance of the cooler Piezography shades is therefore only moderate at best and also more sensitive to choice of media as well when compared to B&W prints made using OEM inks and OEM driver settings.
That said, as long as the print collector knows that not all Piezography prints are highly lightfast and therefore takes care in choosing illumination levels and/or managing the time on display, then the more conservative display policies will allow the more neutral toned Piezography prints to last many generations before noticeably turning more greenish gray. Failure to implement smart illumination/display policies for the cooler toned Piezography ink sets will indeed result in greenish-gray prints more than likely within one's own lifetime.
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
Thanks for the rundown. Sounds like a dye Transfer print...holds up OK in the dark but fades like hell in strong light.
My best Epson 3880 BW prints are only 10% off from the best BW I've ever seen. My prints need a smidgen more richness in the blacks to match the finest prints. But the Epson and Canon pigmented inks are very light fast, holding up 'perfect' to 'excellent' in 6 months of sunlight.