Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: The View on April 21, 2014, 12:55:30 am
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I just closed Capture One Pro 7 an hour ago.
Now I can't open it again.
It crashes every time I do that.
I know what it is: the catalog has become corrupted AGAIN: that's the FIFTH TIME this poorly designed and coded catalog software has become corrupted.
Many hours of work are again lost.
This shows that Capture One Pro 7 is NOT professional grade - that it cannot be relied on.
The reason is: Phase One does not lift a finger to rewrite bad sections of the catalog code.
Many reports have already shown the catalog is not good.
Did Phase One do anything about it?
No, it didn't. The updates to CO7 pro were so minor they never addressed the key area: that the catalog is outdated, old code (from an old microsoft database software, so I heard).
The bill pays the user: with many, many hours trying to fix the results of yet another crash of Capture One Pro 7.
My situation is now, that I have a deadline, and I lost adjustments and ratings to about 2000 images.
I will take another look at Lightroom. That catalog works.
By the way: I can't find the backup. I searched for "Capture One pro backup" on my computer - nothing. I checked application support: nothing.
I have one older catalog completely copied on an external hard drive, but it's not up to date. This was my emergency-emergency backup (which could come in handy, as the co7 regular backup is nowhere to be found).
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Under Preferences/General you can easily find the location of your catalog backups.
Mine are under Application Support/Capture One/ Backups (in the user library)
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Under Preferences/General you can easily find the location of your catalog backups.
Mine are under Application Support/Capture One/ Backups (in the user library)
Thanks for the tip.
I looked at Application support, but unfortunately there's no Capture One folder - I could only find Adobe.
I cannot look under preferences/general, because I can't open Capture One Pro - always crashes upon opening.
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We hear this over and over again how Phase One fails its users. Perhaps if there was a concerted effort to boycott them, i.e. stop buying their products, they just might get the message.
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Are you using Mac or Win? If Win, you might try a system restore to a previous point say a couple of days before the crash. With Win 7, most times I have to run a system restore from safe mode. But the system restore might fix the issue of the crashing of C1.
If Apple, I can't help other than a time machine backup?
I image my main drive once a week, so worst cast I can get back everything except the last weeks changes on C: This is windows 7 and Acronis.
I realize this does not address you concern over the catalog and stability.
Paul
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Thanks for the tip.
I looked at Application support, but unfortunately there's no Capture One folder - I could only find Adobe.
I cannot look under preferences/general, because I can't open Capture One Pro - always crashes upon opening.
You're looking in the wrong library.
Start in the finder
Select the "Go" dropdown menu option
Hold Option and note that a "library" option appears
Then go into application support and preferences.
If you don't love the catalog, or you're having repeated issues with it, you can always use the session structure which C1 has used for a decade+. Or you can do a hybrid workflow between C1 and LR or Aperture.
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In regards to a suggestion to use sessions: no, not for me, never used them.
Before the catalog came up, I was using the regular folder tree that showed on the side - just like it does in Adobe Bridge.
To Phase One:
You need to do an announcement that you are sorry for the trouble your unstable catalog has caused many, many users.
Then you need to announce the date when Capture One Pro 7.5 will be out with a widely rewritten code for the catalog (tossing out that old code that Phase One took from Microsoft Expressions, written for much older computers). And, as you are at it, getting keywording to the great level it's been done in the Lightroom catalog since version 1.
And this must not be a paid upgrade.
On the other hand, many say that Phase One is an arrogant company with a condescending attitude towards its customers.
If those people are right, we will never see a 7.5.
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Hi The View,
Please contact support so we can resolve your issue quickly. There is not much to say on the forum as we don't have the complete picture.
If you want to browse the folder tree as you did in version 6, there is still this option in version 7. There is no change from 6 to 7 in functionality in this respect.
With regards to catalog backups, Doug is also right, in that you need to look in the location he describes. I would also suggest that you could change the location of your catalog backup - it does not have to be in the default location.
Also, is the catalog not backed up in your normal backup routine?
David
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You need to do an announcement that you are sorry for the trouble your unstable catalog has caused many, many users.
"Many, many users"?
Care to back that up?
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Never had much problem with Capture One and when I did it was always something I was doing or not doing. Questions always have been answered by support. I get the best RAW conversions out of files than any other program by far. For the first time in a long time I can skip PhotoShop and output a lot of my work right from Capture One. If I do that with LightRoom I am always feeling that I am not putting out my best results. Capture One is it for me!
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@The View:
I am also sorry C1PRO7's cataloging has created a quagmire for you. I also have my own dissatisfaction with C1PRO7's cataloging functionality. What I can vouch for, is that the C1PRO Tech Support is great at helping their customers find a solution.
I highly suggest, you try to calm down, take deep breaths, and submit a case report and make sure you mention the severity of your problem. I agree with you that the catalog isn't ready for prime time. I backup my C1PRO7 catalogs on a weekly basis for those unexpected "just in case" moments. So far so good for me.
Ron
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@The View:
I am also sorry C1PRO7's cataloging has created a quagmire for you. I also have my own dissatisfaction with C1PRO7's cataloging functionality. What I can vouch for, is that the C1PRO Tech Support is great at helping their customers find a solution.
I highly suggest, you try to calm down, take deep breaths, and submit a case report and make sure you mention the severity of your problem. I agree with you that the catalog isn't ready for prime time. I backup my C1PRO7 catalogs on a weekly basis for those unexpected "just in case" moments. So far so good for me.
Ron
Thanks, Ron.
I suppose until these catalog issues are fixed, Capture One Pro 7 should come in a bundle with a book on breathing exercises.
I now keep two full copies of the catalog on different hard drives (including the previews, about 30 GB).
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Please contact support so we can resolve your issue quickly. There is not much to say on the forum as we don't have the complete picture.
Some problems are beyond fixing. I recently noticed that images were missing from my catalog. When I tried to reimport them, I got the message that the images are already in catalog. So I contacted support... Long story short, we found that my catalog does not pass the validity check and can not be fixed. I have back-ups of catalog going back to January 2014. All of those backups have the same issue. I never realized there was a problem. Nothing that support can do about it.
So I am having to create a new catalog from scratch. Fortunately my bad catalog still opens, so I exported all modified images from it to save my work. It will be a challenge now to move those back into my folder organization and import in new catalog.
Besides the instability, working in catalog is really slow. I have 60k+ images in catalog and working in a smart folder is excruciating (like it takes several minutes to open the folder, and a minute to open an image). C1 memory usage is typically 9-10GB at this point. LR is usually around 1Gb and goes to 2-3 GB in heavy edits.
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Never had much problem with Capture One and when I did it was always something I was doing or not doing. Questions always have been answered by support. I get the best RAW conversions out of files than any other program by far. For the first time in a long time I can skip PhotoShop and output a lot of my work right from Capture One. If I do that with LightRoom I am always feeling that I am not putting out my best results. Capture One is it for me!
C1 as a Raw processor is one of the best, if not the best. The OP is complaining about catalog handling.
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Let me preface by stating that if P1 announces version 8 24 hours from now, I would say, "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY [UPGRADE] MONEY!!!" I have been a long time user of the PRO since version 3.7.8.
However, when version 7 came out, the new RAW engine and the cataloging was herald as selling points.
I can tell you from experience that version 7 (7.2.2 PRO) cataloging is not up to par with the cataloging of LR 5.4. The Smart Collection takes several seconds to load a single configuration with one keyword. For example, I have a male nudes project and I embedded a specific keyword to those images. When setting up a Smart Album to pull those files, C1PRO7.2.2 takes a while until it was able to show ALL the images from my male nudes collection.
How do I know it is slow?
I installed my 5.4 LR trial and I repeated the same Smart Album setup. LR 5.4 pulls up those images near-instantaneously.
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Let me preface by stating that if P1 announces version 8 24 hours from now, I would say, "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY [UPGRADE] MONEY!!!" I have been a long time user of the PRO since version 3.7.8.
However, when version 7 came out, the new RAW engine and the cataloging was herald as selling points.
I can tell you from experience that version 7 (7.2.2 PRO) cataloging is not up to par with the cataloging of LR 5.4. The Smart Collection takes several seconds to load a single configuration with one keyword. For example, I have a male nudes project and I embedded a specific keyword to those images. When setting up a Smart Album to pull those files, C1PRO7.2.2 takes a while until it was able to show ALL the images from my male nudes collection.
How do I know it is slow?
I installed my 5.4 LR trial and I repeated the same Smart Album setup. LR 5.4 pulls up those images near-instantaneously.
Yup. I love C1 and despise it at the same time. I have a buddy who's a great photographer. Anyway he laughs at me as I'm always swapping camps. And by "always" I mean weekly.
I'm a pretty moody guy. Sometimes I'm in the mood for Lightroom, sometimes C1. I have figured a way to get my LR images on par par with C1 but not consistently. I have never even wanted to make my C1 images emulate Lightroom.
However, I have yet to question, let alone ditch LR's cataloging and printing capabilities for that of C1.
I guess that kinda sums it up.
Yeah, I'm all over the place
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Sometimes I'm in the mood for Lightroom, sometimes C1. I have figured a way to get my LR images on par par with C1 but not consistently. I have never even wanted to make my C1 images emulate Lightroom.
However, I have yet to question, let alone ditch LR's cataloging and printing capabilities for that of C1.
I guess that kinda sums it up.
Yeah, I'm all over the place
Just like me..
I catalog with LR, and attack my very good shots with CO (using Media Pro and CO in a sessions mode)
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Just like me..
I catalog with LR, and attack my very good shots with CO (using Media Pro and CO in a sessions mode)
How reliable is Media One?
Can you replace the Capture One catalog with Media One? Or is it very similar and one would just trade one problem with another?
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How reliable is Media One?
Can you replace the Capture One catalog with Media One? Or is it very similar and one would just trade one problem with another?
I find Media One quite reliable - as long as I have patience with it. I use two catalogs, a large one with "all photos" and a small one for recent work which is now just 2014 photos. The large one sometimes takes a long time to save or rebuild files and your pc will say:not responding. Have patience, don't touch the keyboard, and MP will return.
I don't use the CO catalog. MP is a real DAM. I send my files to be processed into a CO session with MP
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I find Media One quite reliable - as long as I have patience with it. I use two catalogs, a large one with "all photos" and a small one for recent work which is now just 2014 photos. The large one sometimes takes a long time to save or rebuild files and your pc will say:not responding. Have patience, don't touch the keyboard, and MP will return.
I don't use the CO catalog. MP is a real DAM. I send my files to be processed into a CO session with MP
The OP of the thread "How do you catalog your images" says Media One is very slow and unintuitive to find images.
What do you think about this?
Also: does keywording work - or is it as painfully bad as in the CO catalog? (where it needs so many step it's basically unusable).
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The OP of the thread "How do you catalog your images" says Media One is very slow and unintuitive to find images.
What do you think about this?
Also: does keywording work - or is it as painfully bad as in the CO catalog? (where it needs so many step it's basically unusable).
Two questions.
I don't find MP slow and unintuitive. It works reasonably well on my fast Windows machine. But all I do are rather basic searches.
Second, the keywording works quite well. I really like the interface for adding keywords.
I have switched to LR most of the time because Phase One never integrated MP very well with Capture One. I think they tried early on, but gave it fewer resources than required. Besides, the code was old and probably hard to modify.
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I have switched to LR most of the time because Phase One never integrated MP very well with Capture One. I think they tried early on, but gave it fewer resources than required. Besides, the code was old and probably hard to modify.
That's what I was fearing. I heard it was based on the old Microsoft Expressions, which was based on iView Media Pro.
Looks like this software is a layer cake of code.
But: if you had the choice between the Capture One Pro 7 catalog and Media One - which would you pick?
Or is it generally a bad idea to create a database on top of old software with a freshened user interface skin on top?
I sometimes feel Phase One, with their stubborn NO to get their cataloging up to speed, is trying to discourage me from using Capture One Pro 7 and go for Lightroom.
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But: if you had the choice between the Capture One Pro 7 catalog and Media One - which would you pick?
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I have made the choice. I use Media Pro and CO in a Sessions mode. They work well together, just not as well as I would like or expected when MP first came out.
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I sometimes feel Phase One, with their stubborn NO to get their cataloging up to speed, is trying to discourage me from using Capture One Pro 7 and go for Lightroom.
I think you need to decide how important image quality is to you. Like everything Phase One, Capture One offers slightly higher image quality but at a cost. Lightroom gives you basic image review, metadata, key wording, raw processing with a plugin infrastructure, and a pretty decent printing setup, and then a full image catalog when you are done. Capture One gives you the sessions workflow (that really only makes sense shooting tethered or with a multi-part project), better color, better tethered workflow, and the ability to output multiple file types to multiple places simultaneously. Working your images in C1 and cataloging to Lightroom is willfully giving yourself an endless headache (I know, I've been doing it for years). Choosing Lightroom over C1 is admitting 'good enough' image quality is good enough and deciding to make your life simple. There is no shame in going with the smart, obvious choice.
C1 makes sense for photographers (fashion, architecture) where an image will get worked heavily in post and only the final image is kept. Sure, the raws may get archived somewhere, but they are probably never revisited. There was a long period of time that professional images went through C1, but personal images just lived in Lightroom. Another major advantage to lightroom is the ability to organize in stacks. If you shoot any kind of composite images, stacks allow you to keep the raw files that form the image organized together. In C1 you have to use session albums to achieve the same thing. As I said, with all things Phase One, the incremental image quality comes at a cost. Only you can decide whether it is worth it to you.
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I try to stay optimistic about the state of the C1 catalog. Hopefully the relative lack of activity, visibility, and marketing for Media Pro indicates that the robust cataloging functionality many of us need will arrive in C1 v8.
I only need all my large files to actually show up in the catalog. How hard can that be?...
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Yes, Gandalf, this is why I'm still using Capture One Pro. I like it.
Only for higher iso shots I use Camera RAW.
Another Paul, I think you're right about Media One Pro having no future. It's very old software with a fresh interface.
We just need two things from the catalog to become better:
1. Stop those cases where the catalog just becomes corrupted for the most ridiculous reasons, e.g. deleting a folder that still has images in it (you need to first delete all the images, then the empty folder) and many more instances. Recently I had a catalog going bad for no reason at all. Closed it one day, never could open it up again.
2. We need workable keywording. C1P7 - no way to keyword with this. Way too many steps. What we need is a simple process:
a. highlight the images you want to keyword
b. write the keyword into its field
c. deselect the images
I mean this is standard procedure in Lightroom since version 1, in Bridge e.g. for adding metadata, etc. So it can't be so difficult to do. Or is the C1 catalog based on equally old and redundant software like Media One Pro?
Then it's time to hire good coders and write modern software that is a match Capture One, and not a club foot that it is now.
And, no, I don't think sessions are the future.
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+1 to all that, but please don't remove sessions. I live and die with those.
I actually really like Bridge for key wording and metadata, as well as a first look at images. It is pretty easy to pass images back for forth between Bridge and C1 since they are both browsers. If I am shooting tethered, I go direct into C1, but if I'm shooting to cards I start by setting up a tethered C1 session with my naming convention (YYYYMMDD_client_project for paid work or YYYYMMDD_location for personal/stock/fine art). I copy the cards to my hard drive, rename the DCIM folders and move them into the session folder. In Bridge, I rename the files (same as the folder name with a three or four digit number), review and keyword the images and move them to the C1 session Capture folder (or multiple capture folders depending on the shoot). When I shoot stitches I will put my hand in front of the lens and the beginning and end of the series so I know where a series starts/stops and I can be sure to keep those images together. From there, everything goes back into C1 where images are processed as 300 ppi, 16 bit pro photo tiffs as saved to the session Output folder. Back in Bridge, I will open the Output folder, modify the images as necessary in Photoshop, and save the working files back to Output and the final flattened files to the session Selects folder. At this point the entire session folder is copied to backup and archive drives and deleted from my edit drive. This works well for complex images, but is way overkill for personal work.
First of all, if any of you have recommendations to improve efficiency, I'm all ears. Second, this is clearly a workflow that should be perfect for C1 catalogs (sorry, they don't really work that way), or Media Pro (it can work that way, but I don't love the cataloging features). Instead, I import the entire folder into Lightroom, which is messy and kind of a headache.
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For whatever it's worth, I hated the catalog in LR. It was a mess and I didn't like the restricted nature of it. I prefer to use the Sessions system that CO7 offers. But, CO7 is a RAW converter, and after using them all, I found it to be the best of the bunch. I keep looking and testing all the other RAW converters, but CO7 still comes up on top for skintones and image quality. If you want a highend image catalog that will do almost everything and maybe even flush your toilet, check out Imatch. http://www.photools.com
As for crashing, I only experienced it when I didn't have the proper resources for the computer to run CO7. One of the main issues I had with my system was my video card. CO7 is very hardware intensive. When I switched my video card over to AMD 7950, I had very hard crashes, and I kept blaming CO7. Tech support asked if I had an adequate power supply to run that video card. I said well it works with everything else except CO7 so it must be CO7.
Out of frustration, I upgraded my power supply, and all of a sudden, CO7 was humming, even with the 7950 overclocked and rarely crashes anymore.
I'm a fan of CO7 because I get personal technical support, fantastic image quality, fast image processing, and a flexible interface, but the most important reason I like CO7 is that I DON'T have to use a catalog. It's nice to have, the folder tree, session or if you really want a catalog.
To each his own. (Fortunately CO7 offers that. Try that with LR)
Paul
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I agree, Gandalf, the naming of C1 Pro has to be brought to the level where it is workable.
I currently don't use C1 Pro for import because of the impractical naming conventions in C1 Pro that don't allow proper naming and there is NO OPTION for renaming files and folders.
I import first to a hard drive, open up the folders with Canon's RAW processor, rename the folders and files, and then import the images to disc.
It's complicated, but at least it works.
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There's one more bug that hasn't been addressed yet.
Or rather, two bugs concerning deletion of folders.
1. If you delete a folder that has images in it, it will corrupt the catalog. First you have to delete the images, only then you can delete the folder. That's way too weird.
2. After deleting the empty folder, all folders in the section "folders" become jumbled, totally out of order. You have to close down C1 first, then open it again and the folders will be in the correct order again. If not, you have to close down C1 again, and then it will work.
This problem, where the catalog suddenly loses its control over the folders and they become jumbled, could be a strong pointer on why the catalog becomes corrupted so often.
Hope this helps in getting the catalog to work.
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The newest crash of the notoriously buggy Capture One Pro catalog:
I was processing yesterday's shoot, had already done all the ratings and adjustments.
And when I opened Capture One Pro just now to do the final selections, all the images had disappeared from the folder.
I had to import again, and I have to start rating, adjusting, again, hours of work lost because Capture One is unable to create a catalog that works.
C1 Pro 7 is still not suitable for a professional environment, as it's way too buggy. Have a deadline? C1 Pro might just crash on you and ruin hours of work.
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Write to P1 Tech Support and tell them. Sometimes, sharing oddities here gets lost, because you're complaining and sharing frustrations to fellow users. We (I) could only agree and empathize with you. What you need is to log into your P1 account and let the P1 Tech Support know your system configuration and what is it you're doing to perhaps trying to reproduce it on their testing systems.