Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: disneytoy on April 05, 2014, 02:34:14 pm
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Just wondering if anyone has tried Natural shellac over their canvas?
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I wouldn't. Guaranteed to crack and yellow. No UV protection. Even though the alcohol vehicle will not affect the ink there may be long term effects on the receptive layers below.
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I agree with jferrari: I wouldn't use shellac on canvas. Even the "white" shellac I've used for finishing wood is somewhat amber, and the amber tends to deepen with age. Also, shellac is not particularly flexible when it dries. On something like canvas it will certainly crack.
You could try it on a small print that's mounted to a rigid substrate if you want to experiment.
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Of course, yellowing and cracking are not necessarily bad things! I've known painters who deliberately condition their varnishes to quickly darken, discolor, and/or crack to exacting Old Master specifications. But not very many.
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Actually, I'd like to add some Shellac to bring the piece to a more natural organic feel, rather than just a computer print out. I don't mind cracking. But this will be mounted on a masonite panel, not just stretchered. I have some really nice pieces here, but after a coat of Acrylic gloss, it feels not right.
I want to add some artistry to this series.
I wasn't sure if the denatured alcohol in the 2lb cut Blonde Shellac would wipe away the ink or canvas coating.
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Ditto on the color cast. Even the white is not totally clear. Shellac is also very sensitive to water and blotches very easily. What kind of look are you trying for that you can't get with something like Glamour II or Timeless? You can blend a little matte into the gloss and tone down the sheen if that's what the issue is.
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I'm going to experiment with different coatings.
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Have often envied the tactile surface qualities of other media, in cases where the surface comes out of the process rather than being an arbitrary thing imposed on the piece. Have been keeping an eye out for something that would bring a little of that to inkjet prints. There are many things one can impose on a print, from brushing on thick varnish to adding Z-Gel, but those are foreign to the basic process and in many cases very over the top.
The photo-realistic painter David Bottini (http://www.forgabriel.com/) gets an interesting, very deep, very glossy surface by painting leaves between thick coatings of some sort of varnish. There's a beautiful and very subtle quality to his pieces when viewed in person that does not come across on the web. I'm thinking that it may be possible to create an interesting surface with rather deep but not perfectly smooth coatings, something like we've been talking about here.
Have been liking some qualities of the way acrylic coating applies to fine art papers, will see what happens with that. Beats the heck out of facemount on plex, which is just plain soulless.
But the bottom line is: I want something that is justified by the overall process, rather than something that is forced upon it. Piece o' cake.
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Just come back from buying a quart of shellac.
Can you guys stop tempting me to try alternative coatings? I can't help myself
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"Have been liking some qualities of the way acrylic coating applies to fine art papers, will see what happens with that. Beats the heck out of facemount on plex, which is just plain soulless.
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Bill,
I come from fine art. Worked in every medium. Digital is great in fine tuning colors, working on different sizes. I'm new to Canvas printing. Tried a small roll of Epson Exhibition Canvas Matte Natural. I liked it but not much of a fabric surface. I do like the Matte. I have on order a 44" roll of the Matte Canvas, regular. I have a lot of very saturated colors, reds etc. I know I can't get the same color space as glossy but I need to see how to get the most with these surfaces.
I like the effect an artist uses with say a burnt umber oil paint applied on the edges then hand wiped leaving a patina of age in the corners. Its usually not one application. It taker some time and coats to build depth.
I've worked with encaustics. essentially bees wax with Damar crystals dissolved in it. Applied with head. It has a wonderful appearance. It may be crazy, but when I get some white refined bees wax i will try that again. I has dome encaustic medium I applied to 100% cotton rag paper. It was too heavy and not as translucent as I'd like.
The beauty of wax, is it can be reworked. Polished like a car finish, and even rubbed with fine steel wool to get a very nice satin effect.
Encaustic is compatible with oils, so these processes could be combined.
Bill, do you have a site, I'd love to see what you are working on.
Thanks!
Its kind of cool that these natural resins, Damar, Shellac, Bees wax etc, come from trees and insects. It kind of brings these art pieces a bit back to earth. Less zeros and ones:-)
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I just coated a print with the amber shellac
I applied the coat on a matte canvas with a wide sponge brush, love the shine and the irregular stained finish, a bit too dark.
I will try mixing it with the clear shellac and see what it looks like
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You can buy shellac flakes. They come in many shades (look for Dewaxed)) They have Blonde, Lemon, Orange, Amber, Ruby and Garnet colors. Basically, you soak the flakes in denatured alcohol in a jar. They refer to the ratio as "cut" a "2lb cut" means a ratio of 2 lb of shellac flakes to 1 gallon of denatured alcohol. Obviously, you can mix small amounts.
(http://shellacshack.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ee8e51288330134892e9b1b970c-800wi)
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Why not to use clean alcohol, there impurities in denatured.
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I did one more test today with a quart of the Clear Shellac, to compare with the test I did yesterday using the Amber Shellac.
The Clear Shellac renders a very light amber tint, it almost has a golden glow.
The coating is not perfectly even when applied with a sponge brush as I did, hard to describe, it has a really beautiful look to it.More of a hand made piece than a manufactured plastic finish.
I need to make a couple more tests with a full known image I had already coated with something else and compare. So far I think that I am in love with the finish from this Shellac Clear.
I will keep reporting
Hugo
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I wouldn't use shellac - or most other non-purpose-made varnishes or lacquers, for that matter - on anything flexible. With a flexible substrate like paper or canvas, any coating you apply has to be able to bend, move and stretch with it, or it will crack. Some are flexible enough when you initially apply them, but won't retain that flexibility in 100 years' time - that's why they're usually used with rigid objects rather than flexible ones. For flexible substrates, it's hard to go past Timeless or Glamour II (and I'm not even sure how flexible they'll remain after 100 years of accelerated ageing).
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I would second the use of flakes that you can " cut" to an exacting standard which you can determine for yourself. Blonde flakes can easily be obtained thru the internet, Rockler or woodcraft among others. Regarding the alcohol used, it may be prohibitive to use alcohol that is not denatured, commonly called "everclear"(drinking grade). ;D
However, you may be able to determine the denaturing agent to control variables(often methyl alcohol which should not be a factor for you). Beware ether or other ketone denaturants which might affect pigments(aka: Pap smear solution ;D).
Finally, I would say "go for it". I like your adventurous spirit.......keep us up to date.
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Now I just have to find a way to make the shellac crack, so the print looks like something found abandoned in a basement for 75 years.
Any ideas?
Hugo
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Now I just have to find a way to make the shellac crack, so the print looks like something found abandoned in a basement for 75 years.
Any ideas?
Hugo
Repeatedly move it between a heated oven and the freezer.
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I believe that there are wood working drying agents that can be added to finishes. Check those sources to see if they may be suitable. Many require good ventilation as they are ketones and other similar volatile liquids and often very flammable until dry. No smoking during useage! ;D
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Hugo,
Can you post a picture? Also which brand of clear did you use?
I think the cracking may have more to do with the thickness of the layers. When doing intentional crackling, we use not a foam brush but a bristle brush. First layer all in one direction, and a fter it dries a layer in a 90 degree angle.
I will be trying the blonde flakes as soon as they come in. Can't wait!
Max
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Hi Max
I will have time this weekend to make a few prints of the same image and coat in shellac to make few tests.
So far, for some images, I think this golden glowing finish will be beautiful.
I will place some pictures as I finish the test
I am thinking of trying one image on canvas and one on a fine art textured paper like the new Epson Watercolor textured, I have few sheets of that one
Do you mind sharing where did you ordered the shellac flakes and what alcohol I can use as solvent to dilute them?
Hugo
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Hi again Max, here's the info.
The brand I have used is Bulls Eye Shelac from ZINSSER
Got in Home Depot or Lowes
I tried the Amber, very dark.
I also tried the Clear, love this one.
About $13.00 for a quart
Hugo
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Great I will buy some clear today. I ordered the blonde Flakes from:
http://www.shellacshack.com/purchase-shellac-flakes.html
They had a good price. I noticed 1lb flakes around $38-50 per lb. They were under $30. They have a very light Platina as well. Not sure of alcohol to use. Hasn't come in yet.
Its fun coming up with secret recipes:-)
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Hi again Max, here's the info.
The brand I have used is Bulls Eye Shelac from ZINSSER
Got in Home Depot or Lowes
I tried the Amber, very dark.
I also tried the Clear, love this one.
About $13.00 for a quart
Hugo
I used to use a lot of shellac when finishing woodwork. It was a terrific sealer coat under the old varnishes. Nowadays everything's polyurethane, and you don't want to use poly over shellac. I used to mix the amber into the white (clear) shellac to get just the tone I needed, so you might want to keep that in mind.
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Woodworking shops such as Rockler or Woodcraft have flakes and solvent. May be one local to you:
http://www.rockler.com/search/go?w=shellac%20flakes&asug=&sli_uuid=&sli_sid= (http://www.rockler.com/search/go?w=shellac%20flakes&asug=&sli_uuid=&sli_sid=)
http://www.woodcraft.com/search2/search.aspx?query=shellac%20flakes (http://www.woodcraft.com/search2/search.aspx?query=shellac%20flakes)
http://www.shellac.net/faq.html (http://www.shellac.net/faq.html)
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I used to use a lot of shellac when finishing woodwork. It was a terrific sealer coat under the old varnishes. Nowadays everything's polyurethane, and you don't want to use poly over shellac. I used to mix the amber into the white (clear) shellac to get just the tone I needed, so you might want to keep that in mind.
Xinsser has a de-waxed shellac that they sell as a sanding sealer. They claim it can be used under Polyurethanes
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Xinsser has a de-waxed shellac that they sell as a sanding sealer. They claim it can be used under Polyurethanes
I think it's Zinsser.