Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: hjulenissen on March 10, 2014, 06:12:12 am
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I'd like to have a white vignette that fades into paper white. I.e. the image borders should match perfectly with the paper outside of the print area.
Is there a simple way to achieve this? I only did a simple trial and it did not work out (still able to see the abrupt transition between paper and active print area).
-h
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In PS one way would be to select the area of interest using the elliptical or rectangular marquee selection tool. Once happy with the placement click on add mask then making sure the mask is still selected go to Filters / Blur / Gaussian Blur and experiment with the radius to get the effect you need. I appreciate you asked in the LR forum but as I do not know how to do it in LR hoped that this may be of some help
EDIT:Curious I had a look and in LR there is a way using the Effects panel and Post crop vignetting. You may have already tried this way but playing with the Amount, Midpoint, Roundness and Feather will work but appears to offer less control than PS
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I am aware of how to make a post-crop vignette in Lightroom. What I am not aware of is how to make it fade into paper white (as opposed to print white).
When making a white vignette the direct way, I can see a difference between the corners of the active image area, and the paper margins.
-h
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I think I understand except for "paper white as opposed to print white"?
If you mouse over the areas that should be absolute white i.e. paper white no ink, the values shown in the histogram should be 100% for RGB anything less than this will throw ink at the paper and you are likely to see the changes you have noted. If the vignette is close to the edges of the print and feather is set high it is quite possible that no areas will be paper white 100% RGB. Perhaps an adjustment brush around the edges would ease the transition, or consider adding the Radial filter to ease the transition to white?
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Usually RGB 255-255-255 should translate into no-ink.
Shouldn't it?
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Yes but LR readouts are percentages unless you switch to the Tone Curves panel
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...(still able to see the abrupt transition between paper and active print area).
Was the image fading properly to "no-ink"? If not then TonyW's ideas seem helpful as that is the first step.
If the image is fine, then perhaps it is due to gloss-differential? You don't say what inks or paper are being used. Unfortunately, other than changing inks or paper I don't know a fix for that.
If the image is good, then I suppose it could also be due to a poor printer profile (i.e. profile white point isn't properly mapped to the paper white). In that case, most likely the profile is being affected by Optical Brighteners (try remaking the profile with UV cut or vice-versa?) or perhaps the profile was made with a poor device.
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I think I know a way that should work in Photoshop, but not in Lightroom. I'm too lazy to test this right now but theoretically ...
Convert to Profile and use your *printer* profile for the destination space.
Now, edit the edges of the image so that they fade to pure (255,255,255) white.
Now print with the same profile. This should preserve the numeric values of the edited image, so white should really be white.
Note that you can't necessarily expect to convert this back to a normal editing space and still have the fade go to pure white. It might work with some editing spaces, but for others the printer's pure white would be out of gamut for the editing space.
If you still see a border, what you're seeing is posterization in the extreme bright tones just short of white. That is, the best fade-to-white you can hope for is limited by the lightest gray that your printer can print. At some point, it has to transition from some dots of black (or light black or light light black depending on your ink set) to zero dots. This transition cannot be perfectly smooth. The best it can do is to use its lightest neutral ink and add space between the dots. The printer firmware may put a limit on how much space it is willing to add. Once the dot spacing gets big enough to see, it isn't a convincing near-white anymore, just paper white with a bunch of visible dots. Depending on the details of the arithmetic, printing in 16-bit mode might help.
A possible solution to this problem is to print the white border, all the way to edges of the paper (or far enough to disappear under the matt, if there is one). That way your printer's best near-white would be the whitest thing visible, and nobody would notice that it's not identical to paper white. This would also solve any problem with gloss differential caused by gloss optimizer.
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I'd like to have a white vignette that fades into paper white. I.e. the image borders should match perfectly with the paper outside of the print area.
Is there a simple way to achieve this? I only did a simple trial and it did not work out (still able to see the abrupt transition between paper and active print area).
-h
In print the image white will become the paper white. So if the vignette at the border is white (rgb 100%) the print will not show a border transition.
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I am by no means a PS expert(advanced novice might be a better description) but what I might do(in LR) is to do your white vignette as you would, check to see if the the edges are as close to 100% as you can get then bring it into PS. Once in PS, chose Image>Image size and resize your image so that it is(let's say) .25 inch smaller all around. In PS(still) create a new canvas. Under File>New and create a new canvas(make sure the resolution is the same as your original) fill it with white(255,255,255) to the output size you want. Open both windows side by side, click on the original file and drag it to the blank canvas. I think it's either shift click or ctrl click to center the the image onto the blank canvas. Your original image, since it is smaller, will now have that white vignette fade into paper white(and since you're in PS should read 255,255,255 all the way around. When done, flatten the image, save it with a new name and if you mean to print out of LR just import the new image.
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I'd like to have a white vignette that fades into paper white. I.e. the image borders should match perfectly with the paper outside of the print area.
Is there a simple way to achieve this? I only did a simple trial and it did not work out (still able to see the abrupt transition between paper and active print area).
-h
Ok, if I think I understand what you want , it's quite easy but in Photoshop rather than Lightroom - I do this every day with my product photography (I photograph photo equipment to advertise for sale on eBay and the background has to be paper white to blend with the frame background - see example attached.)
Here's the steps:
1. Make a copy layer (Cmd-J)
2. Select the lasso tool and free hand draw a lasso selection around the object - not very tight - 50+ pixels from the edges of the object is good - make it free hand to be a bit random.
3. Create mask - then Cmd-I to invert mask. (assume default - ie black mask) That will mask the object you want to keep from changing.
4. Select the object's thumb - then Cmd-L to select Image Adjustment level change. Pull the far right (white) set all the way to the left . This will blow the image to 100% white - except for the protected object masked off.
5. Select the mask thumbnail and select properties. Play with the "feather" control to smooth out the masked look (about 80 pixel is about right.)
6. Merge the two layer - voila you have it!
See image attached:
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Yes but LR readouts are percentages unless you switch to the Tone Curves panel
could you explain that. I only seem to be seeing percentages. How do I se the actual 0-255 number?
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Alan, sorry my error, nothing to do with the Tone Curves :-[ I should have said by switching on Soft Proofing and selecting your paper profile will enable you to see RGB values
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Tony: Yes, thanks, when I click on Soft Proofing I can see the values. I notice that the only other change was to a white background. What other changes are happening when you click soft proofing?
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I notice that the only other change was to a white background. What other changes are happening when you click soft proofing?
IMHO a little bit of Adobe magic :). With soft proofing you can check your colours are in gamut for both display and output device and by setting the correct profile for that device will simulate how your image will look, for instance when printed and allow you to make changes to the image based on how the soft proof version looks in comparison to the monitor view.
To see RGB percentage values rather than numbers in the Develop module seems to be a logical choice when dealing with raw files and actual RGB numerical values may be of value only when we know the output colour space and need to produce an exact colour e.g. Pantone. For me most of the time I concentrate on making the image look good and how RGB numbers are displayed is not of great importance other than perhaps confirming neutrals which would be equal RGB values either numbers or percentages
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Tony: Yes, thanks, when I click on Soft Proofing I can see the values. I notice that the only other change was to a white background. What other changes are happening when you click soft proofing?
The input file could have a lot more levels than 256 (8 bits). When you enable soft proofing LR show you a preview of your 12 or 14 bit RAW file as it would appear in a 8 bit color space. So LR has not calculated the value (0-255) until soft proofing is enabled.
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OK I see the changes in Proof Copy. So now I have 9 different profiles I can select for my Epson iP4600. Are these different models of the same iP4600 printer? Or do I select one of these profiles that I like by checking the view on the monitor and then the printer follows the ICM profile? How do you adjust for the type of paper? Are there BW profiles available to download or only color?
http://imgcdn.geocaching.com/cache/613e576f-ba9e-40bf-b7ce-5965f5282365.jpg?rnd=0.185583 (http://imgcdn.geocaching.com/cache/613e576f-ba9e-40bf-b7ce-5965f5282365.jpg?rnd=0.185583)
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Few questions there Alan :). Easier to answer by dissecting the post. Please bear in mind that anything below assumes that you already have a correctly calibrated and profiled monitor.
OK I see the changes in Proof Copy. So now I have 9 different profiles I can select for my Epson iP4600.
I assume Epson was a typo as the profiles are Canon
Are these different models of the same iP4600 printer?
No they are different paper profiles describing the characteristics of each of the Canon papers and Canon ink using your iP4600.
Or do I select one of these profiles that I like by checking the view on the monitor and then the printer follows the ICM profile?
It would not be the best idea to select a profile based on what you like the look of on screen as each profile has been made for the particular paper e.g. glossy, matt etc and would probably not be optimal and may look poor once printed
How do you adjust for the type of paper?
Printer manufacturers icc profiles can be confusing outside of the manufacturers own application. Canon certainly do not seem to be an exception here. As I do have a couple of lightweight Canon printers and referring to my notes this I believe should help you identifying the correct profile
MP = Matte Photo Paper, PR = Photo Paper Pro, SP = Photo Paper Plus Glossy, GL = Photo Paper Plus Glossy II, SG = Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss, PT= Photo Paper Pro Platinum.
The numbers appended after the name refer to the print quality 1= highest to 5 (I think!) = lowest
So if I have decoded your profile examples correctly your Canon paper profile names refer to the following Canon papers only:
GL2/SG2 = Photo Paper Glossy II/ Semi Gloss/ quality 2
GL3/SG2 = Photo Paper Glossy II/ Semi Gloss/ quality 3
MP2 = Canon Matte Photo Paper / quality 2
PR1 = Canon Photo Paper Pro/ quality 1
PR2 = Canon Photo Paper Pro/ quality 2
PR3 = Canon Photo Paper Pro/ quality 3
PT2 = Canon Photo Paper Pro Platinum / quality 2
PT3 = Canon Photo Paper Pro Platinum / quality 3
Are there BW profiles available to download or only color?
I am not aware of any B&W profiles only for this printer and inkset. So my suggestion would be:
Convert your image to B&W (virtual copy LR?)
In Soft proof select the profile for the particular paper you are going to use
Make your density and contrast adjustments as required using soft proofing view, turn on the comparison view if required.
Then print from LR Print module ideally allowing LR to manage and do not forget to turn off printer manages colour in the printer dialogue.
Note that as the printer is not a specialised B&W printer you may still get a colour cast as it will be trying to make a neutral greyscale by mixing colours.
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Yes it's Canon, the Epson is my V600 scanner. Thanks for a very thorough and understandable clarification.
One question. While editing levels COLOR contrast etc, do you do that in soft proof or what? What should my color gamut be set for in the calibrated sv2?
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My preference is to edit the image first in Develop module and only when satisfied turn on soft proofing, select dual view to compare original with the soft proof side by side and select the paper profile. Once you have done this you will most likely see that the soft proof version actually needs a little tweaking to match what you see in the 'normal' view so you can use the Create Proof Copy button and work on a virtual copy of your original. It just makes sense to me to leave your original edits alone as you may want to print to different output devices or papers in the future which will likely require different 'tweaks' to match the original.
Colour gamut of the monitor IMO should be set to the highest. If you have the options to switch between native which may be close to Adobe RGB, or sRGB use the Adobe RGB setting. The reason being that it is likely that both your camera can record and your printer can output a wider gamut than sRGB and it is also possible that the printer paper combination is able to exceed Adobe RGB at least in some areas. So it seems to make sense to make sure that first you can see as much as possible what your camera sensor has captured onscreen as well as being able to output that to print media as close as possible
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I can select sRGB, Adobe RGB, Native (Full), EBU/ITU (PAL/SECAM), SMPTE-C, DCI, ECI/NTSC(1953),
Color Match (P22-EBU) and CRT Display.
1. So you recommend I should use Adobe RGB rather than Native (Full)? Is that correct?
2. So once I edit it to what I think is correct, I create a soft proof print copy and tweak the proof for printing. If the print is still not correct, then I would change the Intensity on the edit page. Is that true and are there other changes normally made so that future "prints" are OK?
3. What procedure do you follow then to create an sRGB for the internet?
4. What do you do when you email photos to others?
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I can select sRGB, Adobe RGB, Native (Full), EBU/ITU (PAL/SECAM), SMPTE-C, DCI, ECI/NTSC(1953),
Color Match (P22-EBU) and CRT Display.
My, what a lot of choices - I only have two, monitor switch on or off ;D
1. So you recommend I should use Adobe RGB rather than Native (Full)? Is that correct?
I can only state what my preferences with a good monitor would be rather than make a generalised recommendation. Not familiar with your particular monitor but assume that it must be fairly close to Adobe RGB so the question is why is there a Native(Full) choice as well? My guess at this time is that Native(Full) would be the correct option to choose and this is the setting that you would be in when calibrating.
2. So once I edit it to what I think is correct, I create a soft proof print copy and tweak the proof for printing. If the print is still not correct, then I would change the Intensity on the edit page. Is that true and are there other changes normally made so that future "prints" are OK?
Yes, soft proofing and tweaking the soft proof version with the correct (and good!) paper profile on a correctly profiled monitor and viewing the print in the 'correct' lighting should give you a very good match print to screen (most of the time) - if that is your aim. Should you change paper type and therefore profile you will need to tweak again when soft proofing using the new profile
3. What procedure do you follow then to create an sRGB for the internet?
Within LR Export file / File setting JPEG sRGB / Image sizing as required for web
4. What do you do when you email photos to others?
Direct from LR File / Email photo / set size as required
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1. I don't know which is best to use for my PA242W, but I'll try to find out.
2. OK
I wasn't clear on my questions for 3 and 4.
3. Let's say I edit for printing using Adobe RGB. When completed, do you just create the JPEG sRGB from the Adobe RGB? Or do you switch to an sRGB profile and edit from the beginning?
4. Do you use sRGB for email files too?
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Here's what NEC says about which color gamut to use in their SV2 manual.
Color Gamut The color gamut is the range of colors that can be displayed by the monitor. The color gamut of a monitor is defined and bounded by the red, green and blue primaries which together make up all other colors. Depending on the display model being used, the Color Gamut can be fully customized for specialized applications. See the Color Gamut section for more information on selecting and configuring the Color Gamut. The choice of Color Gamut will depend on the applications and operating system being used. Typically if a color managed application is being used, then the Native (Full) color gamut should be used since this will allow the application to make full use of the color capabilities of the display. This applies even if the image, document, etc. is intended for another color gamut such as sRGB or AdobeRGB. The color gamut should not normally be set to that of the color workspace of the application, if it is color managed. Likewise the color workspace should not normally be set to the color gamut of the display. For non-color managed applications a specific color gamut such as sRGB can be selected to make the display appear as if it has such a color gamut. In this case, all of the necessary color conversions are done automatically within the display.
They add in the color gamut section:
By using the Native (Full) setting, the color gamut will be that of the LCD panel which will result in the widest possible color gamut. Use this setting if you are using color managed applications such as Adobe Photoshop which use a Color Management System to correctly convert colors for display.
So do you use Native on the monitor for both printing and the internet? What do you set Lightroom 5 for?
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...I wasn't clear on my questions for 3 and 4.
3. Let's say I edit for printing using Adobe RGB. When completed, do you just create the JPEG sRGB from the Adobe RGB? Or do you switch to an sRGB profile and edit from the beginning?
I think you may be misunderstanding here assuming we are still talking about editing in and output from LR. You do not really need to worry too much about LR and colour management as it has been made relatively simple and pretty much automated without the need for much in the way of user intervention. Just by following a few simple rules you will get exactly the output you need without having to consider conversions until such time as needed for output to others or specific devices outside your direct control e.g. lab handling your printing.
As you stated 'edit for printing using Adobe RGB' a little more detail of at least my basic understanding of LR may be of some help in understanding why this is not appropriate or required at the editing stage.
AFAIK editing in LR Develop mode uses the colour coordinates to ProPhoto RGB with a linear gamma of 1.0 for internal calculations only. What you actually see on screen is a representation of the image using a tonal response curve similar to sRGB with a gamma of 2.2 serving both the screen image and histogram view. This only applies to raw images as for others, TIFF, JPEG, PSD the embedded profile is used and if no profile then LR will assume an SRGB document.
The working/editing space in LR therefore is fixed and cannot actually be changed to Adobe RGB, sRGB or any other working space, nor does it need to be until output to a device such as a printer required. Only then do you need to tell LR what colour space required either an icc profile for a particular printer paper or to output a document as an sRGB, Adobe RGB, ProPhoto or indeed any other device profile you have installed.
Regardless of any inaccuracy in the above you should not worry about what happens internally in LR and only be concerned with getting the best out of your image in the Develop module. Then by selecting the correct profile prior to outputting to print or saving to file you are probably pretty much guaranteed to get an accurate result as LR will take care of the required conversions.
4. Do you use sRGB for email files too?
It depends on the purpose and the recipient. If it is being sent to someone who does not use a colour managed application or have a clue what colour management is then sRGB is probably the safest bet. For others that may wish to edit images within in a colour managed environment then any appropriate RGB flavour could be sent.
So do you use Native on the monitor for both printing and the internet? What do you set Lightroom 5 for?
Native on the monitor should be your standard and where conversion is required for printing let LR take care of this directly using the paper profile. For output to internet the safest bet I think is to use soft proofing to SRGB then after any editing just export your file. As stated earlier you cannot set up the LR working/editing space to be any other than LR's native space so it is just the output space you need to get correct.
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OK So if I understand this, I set NEC SV2 to Native Full and then do all the adjustments in LR5. When I get to print, I soft proof LR5 with the paper/printer I'm using and tweak LR5 from there for the print only. If I send a picture to the internet or email, I only have to create an sRGB file from the final edited picture from LR5. No more tweaking would be necessary. LR5 makes the proper conversion.
Am I right so far? _____________?
But what are the other gamuts in SV2 for? Why do they give you the option to select them?
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Alan,
Suggesting the use of Native(Full) was to allow the full gamut of the monitor to be accessed, otherwise why would we want to purchase a wide gamut monitor?
However, this consideration did not take into account any of the presets that your monitor has and the possibility that using the Native preset (or any other!) does not allow you to use the hardware calibration facility within NEC monitors using the SpectraView software and calibration tool. As NEC monitors allow for full hardware calibration via the internal LUT (for approved calibration tools and software only) then this is the best option.
Not being familiar with your particular model and having checked the preset options on my own budget level NEC there are 7 presets available including one for sRGB and one marked N for Native the final one marked P for programmable.
I believe the Programmable setting is the one that you should be using as this is likely to be the only one that allows the SpectraView software to alter the monitors hardware calibration settings directly. I do not know for sure so I would suggest consulting the manual.
My assumption is that you do have the required SpectraView software and an approved calibration device to enable hardware calibration?
So after calibration and profiling the monitor and making sure that the profile is being used by your OS then yes I believe your are correct in using LR as stated to make the conversions for either file, print or email.
Other presets will allow the monitor to emulate a particular colour space by just pressing a button and probably allow a degree of modification to the colour temp. and hue.
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Tony: I ignore the manual gamut selection for the monotir and only select SV2. Then, in the SV2 propgram, I can select sRGB, Adobe RGB, Native (Full), EBU/ITU (PAL/SECAM), SMPTE-C, DCI, ECI/NTSC(1953), Color Match (P22-EBU) and CRT Display. The SV2 will calibrate using the calibration device "puck" on the screen. So my display can be calibrated for Native, sRGB or Adpbe SGB and the others mentioned. I can create Targets for all of them and select which ever one I want to use.
So the question is, if I use Native (full), will my adjustments being done in LR5 be "off" when I create the sRGB file in LR? Would I be better off starting with the SV2 calibrated sRGB when I begin to post process in LR5? What about if my intention is to Print. Stick with Native or something else? Note that the default setting when you select Photo Editing is Native in SV2.
If I leave the gamut on Photo Editing and the Native is selected, when I look at the web the coklors are more intense. They look like the use to when I select sRGB. So that's why I'm afraid if I calibrate using Native, when LR5 converts to sRGB, the colors will be wrong. What do you think?
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Tony: I ignore the manual gamut selection for the monotir and only select SV2. Then, in the SV2 propgram, I can select sRGB, Adobe RGB, Native (Full), EBU/ITU (PAL/SECAM), SMPTE-C, DCI, ECI/NTSC(1953), Color Match (P22-EBU) and CRT Display. The SV2 will calibrate using the calibration device "puck" on the screen. So my display can be calibrated for Native, sRGB or Adpbe SGB and the others mentioned. I can create Targets for all of them and select which ever one I want to use.
Alan, I understand I think what you are saying about the SV2 (SpectraView II ?) application and I also use an earlier version which I had to get a colleague in the USA to purchase as NEC would not sell or support this version in the UK hence it is an old version 2011 which cannot be updated so there will be differences between your app and what I use. But I feel that there are probably many similarities.
The Target Settings dropdown shows Broadcast Video, Dicom Blue, Dicom Clear, Photo Editing and Print Standard.
For each Target Settings the current or defaults for White Point, Gamma, and Intensity etc. etc. is shown along with the calibration status either calibrated or uncalibrated. These targets can be modified or completely new targets can be made as required. For instance the default Target Settings for Photo Editing the intensity is set for 140 cd/m2 this I found too high for matching print to screen in my typical environment therefore I used the edit button to change this to 120 cd/m2 and rather than delete the original I saved it using the imaginative name 120 cd_M2 Target ;D.
I think there are two areas to consider here, first the monitor setting presets and then the SVII application targets for calibration and profiling.
The point is that I do not understand how your particular monitor may work in communication with your calibration device via SVII. For instance when performing your calibration and profiling via SVII does the monitor need to be set into the Programmable preset mode first to use the more accurate hardware calibration or does it automatically overide any preset settings you may have done via the OSD? AFAIK my monitor needs to be set in the preset Programmable for hardware calibration to be effective hence my questions
So the question is, if I use Native (full), will my adjustments being done in LR5 be "off" when I create the sRGB file in LR? Would I be better off starting with the SV2 calibrated sRGB when I begin to post process in LR5? What about if my intention is to Print. Stick with Native or something else? Note that the default setting when you select Photo Editing is Native in SV2.
Basically LR and for that matter PS rely on an accurate profile describing your monitors unique condition. It is then able to accurately display your image on your screen or mine even though they are probably very different. When you make adjustments in Develop module and then export your file in a particular colour space a conversion has to be made to that colour space and LR does its best to make the images match your on screen view so it cannot turn off your adjustments.
Shoud you start off with monitor set sRGB mode then calibrate to specific target values and stay within that colour space for your entire workflow from capture to print? Only you can decide and many do and produce excellent work. But you have committed to a wide gamut monitor, you will probably have a camera that can capture colours that exceed sRGB and Adobe RGB and print to your own printer that may also be able to print colour that exceeds Adobe RGB in certain areas. So for me the answer is not sRGB until needed - to use an old woodworking saying about keeping timber 'keep it as long as you can, for as long as you can' translating to digital imaging keep in high bit high colour gamut for as long as you can.
If I leave the gamut on Photo Editing and the Native is selected, when I look at the web the coklors are more intense. They look like the use to when I select sRGB. So that's why I'm afraid if I calibrate using Native, when LR5 converts to sRGB, the colors will be wrong. What do you think?
I do not think that you should see major changes generally viewing a document that has been converted to sRGB contains an embedded profile and is being viewed within a colour managed web browser and that browser has had colour management enabled.
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Alan, you're making this more complicated than it has to be.
Leave your monitor/SV II at full, native gamut, unless you have a specific need to limit the monitor to sRGB for an application that isn't color managed. In this case you don't, as Lightroom is of course fully color managed.
All these scenarios that you ask about convert/remap directly from a source color space to a destination color space. The basic mechanism is the same in all of them. There may be gamut clipping in these conversions, but other than that the colors are remapped, preserving appearance.
So you have <linear ProPhoto to monitor profile> for display. An exported sRGB file will display as <sRGB to monitor profile>. In both cases the source profile converts directly to the monitor profile.
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Similarly, when you print it goes <linear ProPhoto to printer/paper/ink profile>.
Soft proofing takes the file an extra round via the proof profile, before it hits the monitor profile. This way the gamut is limited to the proof profile. So it becomes <linear ProPhoto to printer/paper/ink profile to monitor profile>. (That's not the actual mechanism - there are separate proof tables in the profile - but it's the best way to visualize what's happening).
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This already became a lengthy explanation - but don't complicate it. The underlying mechanism is very simple. Bottom line is, all this works perfectly well with with the monitor in full native state. The monitor profile takes care of it all so that it displays correctly.
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With all that settled, it's time to look at web. As long as you use a web browser that has full color management in all scenarios, the same principles apply and you can still leave the monitor at full native, whatever material you're looking at.
Unfortunately, all web browsers aren't fully color managed in all scenarios. In fact there's only one: Firefox. But even so you have to manually enable color management mode 1. I'll explain what this does below.
Internet Explorer converts all source material not to your monitor profile, but to sRGB <rolls eyes>. It's totally useless if you have a wide gamut monitor.
Safari works well as long as there is an embedded document profile. Then it converts that to the monitor profile and all is well. But if there's no document profile, as there often isn't, the RGB values are just sent straight through without any attempt at color management. Again useless.
I don't know Chrome, but think it's basically the same.
Firefox at default configuration again behaves the same way. But there's a hidden weapon: in the mode 1 configuration, it assigns sRGB to all untagged material. This allows the color management chain to operate, and again converts to your monitor profile. To get there, type "about:config" without the quotes in the address bar, hit go and scroll down to gfx.color_management.mode. Change it from 2 to 1.
Long story short: If you have a wide gamut monitor, the only usable web browser configuration is Firefox with color management set to mode 1. Every other browser would require you to limit your monitor to sRGB (and even then wouldn't always be entirely correct).
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Ok, got it. So when I photo edit, I use the SV2 calibrated Native (full) and let LR5 manage conversion to sRGB and for soft print proofing. No need to deal with sRGB.
Since I am using IE as my web browser, then I would have to switch in SV2 from Native to sRGB if I want to view the colors "correctly" while web browsing because I can tell you that in the Native setting the colors for photos on the web (at least with photo from Flickr) are really saturated. So under non-editing conditions, my best bet would be to leave the SV2 in sRGB calibrated mode.
One wrinkle. I also scan medium format photos with an Epson V600 flatbed at 16 bits color. Should I consider another approach then when I'm editing film rather than digital?
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Yes, thats it let LR manage conversions as required
Web browsing you have a few choices. 1. Switch from IE to Firefox and make sure you enable colour management in About:Config. 2. When viewing web content use the monitor controls to switch to sRGB which should overide SVII settings and remember to switch back for photo editing. 3. Change to sRGB as stated via SVII.
No need to change your approach due to scanning
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I wrote exactly the same thing while you posted, Tony, so here goes one more time ;)
That's right. Just let Lightroom and the monitor profile handle it.
I'd strongly recommend Firefox. With the mode 1 setting, you get full color management on all web material, absolutely correct display for everything, embedded profile or not.
With Internet Explorer what they did was to make sure, with 100% certainty, that nothing will ever display quite right. It'll just be more obvious on wide gamut displays. God only knows what they were thinking.
You can process the scans the same way as digital captures. My Epson flatbed embeds Adobe RGB in the TIFFs, and Lightroom will honor that. My experience is that flatbed scans require a great deal of processing to look good, but Lightroom is a good place to do that.
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Firefox my preference now for many years I rarely use IE these days unless a website is not comfortable with FF (increasingly rare) and one of the reasons initially to making the change was the touted superior security of FF. Not sure if MS has caught up in anyway with IE11 or what happens in Windows 8 relating to colour management?
There is another question still banging around in my head and that is does Alans monitor need to be set in the Programmable mode (Presets) to allow the SV software to access the internal monitor LUT's or is this handled automatically regardless of the Preset condition?
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There is another question still banging around in my head and that is does Alans monitor need to be set in the Programmable mode (Presets) to allow the SV software to access the internal monitor LUT's or is this handled automatically regardless of the Preset condition?
I'm new to Spectraview II, just got it shipped to Norway from B&H in NY (I'm not even supposed to use it here), but the first thing I noticed was that the Spectraview calibration took a Programmable slot in the monitor right away. So it went straight to the monitor LUT, with my target settings, without any intervention from me. And that's how I would expect it to behave.
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To clarify how NEC Multisync wide-gamut operates, the PA242W hardware select switch allows the following choices: Adobe RGB, sRGB, High Bright, Full and Spectraview. The first 4 are calibrated at the factory. When I first installed the monitor, the sRGB was very dim, nothing like my previous monitor. So I call NEC to find out what was the matter. The tech said I should just forget about all the hardware selects and calibrate with SV2 choosing Spectraview at all times. Once you select in Spectraview program, the hardware select indicates Spectraview was selected. YOu can switch back to the other four, but not recommended by NEC.
In SV2, you then can calibrate any number of color gamuts using the calibrator "puck" on the screen: you can select sRGB, Adobe RGB, Native (Full), EBU/ITU (PAL/SECAM), SMPTE-C, DCI, ECI/NTSC(1953), Color Match (P22-EBU) or CRT Display. After calibration, if you don't like the results let's say for soft proof printing, you can manually modify it and then save the new calibration naming it for your personal use. Such as "Alans preset for Canon Photo Pro paper" or "Alans preset for ABC Printing lab." The are 5 adjustments you can make that will override the SV2 color gamut calibration: white point, Intensity, Contrast Ratio, Gamma and Color Trim. So now the related question to these 5 manual adjustments.
With my SV2 in Photo editing (Native-full) and adjusting LR5 to post process, I get to soft proofing for printing. Which of the 5 manual adjustments do you all find are the best to work with if the print does not match the soft proof?
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Do you set doft proof in LR5 before you start any adjustments or do you adjust to what looks good in Native and then switch on soft proof at the end and tweak?
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With my SV2 in Photo editing (Native-full) and adjusting LR5 to post process, I get to soft proofing for printing. Which of the 5 manual adjustments do you all find are the best to work with if the print does not match the soft proof?
If I understand correctly you are thinking of the NEC's presets. This is not what you want to do if print does not match as this is likely to be a problem of monitor brightness, poor profile or other reasons and needs to be investigated. Have a look Here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/why_are_my_prints_too_dark.shtml) as a very good starting point
Do you set doft proof in LR5 before you start any adjustments or do you adjust to what looks good in Native and then switch on soft proof at the end and tweak?
When you say Native I assume you mean native as in LR screen not Native as in monitor setting? One way to work in LR is to adjust your image to taste in the Develop module and once satisfied turn on soft proofing and use the dual view to see a before and after (soft proof) either side by side or top and bottom. Select your paper profile and you will normally see your proof image does not look as good as your original. In that case you may want to make minor tweaks to match the two images as close as possible and also Create a Saved Print
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Alan, the presets may not necessarily work for you. You should set these parameters manually and individually, and the aim is to produce a visual match to output (under your specific viewing conditions).
First, you should set a white point that matches paper white. That means setting both luminance and temperature. A good starting point is 120 cd/m² and 6500K (D65), but try different values until you get a good match. My standard targets are 110 and 6300K.
Then consider contrast. A good paper rarely achieves a contrast range above 300:1, usually 250:1 is more realistic. You don't necessarily have to go that low in contrast on-screen, but keep these numbers in mind. High contrast on-screen is not necessarily a good thing, it won't help you get a match from screen to print.
Gamma should be left at 2.2 simply because it's close to the native TRC of the monitor. In a color managed environment it doesn't matter because one profile's gamma is remapped into the other profile's gamma anyway. It doesn't make any visual difference what the gamma is set to. But 2.2 will be roughly right in a non-color managed setting.
The 6-axis color trim should be left strictly alone. I consider that a special-case option, and it's unlikely that special case will ever apply.
With these parameters all set, run the calibration.
With the calibration done, Spectraview (or any calibrator) makes a monitor profile, which is a description of the monitor in its now calibrated state. This description includes the position of the three primaries, i.e. the gamut. The profile is all a color managed application relates to, it doesn't know about the calibration. For this reason it's very important to never change any monitor settings afterwards - this will invalidate the profile and require you to make a new one.
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Spectraview II is excellent software, it really positively surprised me. I have a wide gamut Eizo that is hardware calibrated with EasyPix software, but it doesn't have anywhere near the feature set of SVII. At the moment I'm using it with a standard gamut P232W, but I'm planning for a PA242W in the near future (replacing the Eizo).