Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: Czornyj on December 26, 2013, 12:43:32 pm
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http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/building_a_better_profile___its_all_in_the_recipe.shtml
Yeah, great. But I keep asking myself what does it have to do with "Tutorial" ???
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Just a stealth advert really.
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Well said, Paul and Czornyj!
So media Settings determine the ink output. And the wrong media setting, regardless of the spectrophotometer used to build the profile, will produce a less than satisfactory print. So we're wasting our money on profile building hard and software? Hmmm...
Forget about building your own profiles and buy a RIP from Colorbyte for $$$ more and hope that your third party media is covered… or you're scre_ed bananas!
Instead, if this were a tutorial instead of a sales pitch for Colorbyte, we would have been advised to try building different profiles with different media settings to find the ideal media setting (and that is only if the paper manufacturer doesn't recommend a specific media setting.) We could also restrict ink output through the print driver if there was too much ink on paper. Cheap alternative… you think?
Thanks but no thanks. I'll use my Datacolor Studio 4, recently purchased, that offers me the ability to alter my profiles and retain full control of my profile building with some very rare and unusual third party papers. I considered XRite… but they wanted more to repair my Pulse Spectro than I paid new for entire package that came with it.
You've gotta love it when there's little to no competition (thanks to XRite buying up the competition).
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My best guess is that the article has something to do with the appearance of PrinTao 8. Maybe the next article on LuLa will be a review of that LaserSoft program. Mac based right now so in another league than Qimage was all the time.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Hi
Maybe next a review for Qimage itself?
It's for me the way to print.
Alain
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My best guess is that the article has something to do with the appearance of PrinTao 8. Maybe the next article on LuLa will be a review of that LaserSoft program. Mac based right now so in another league than Qimage was all the time.
Yet another nesting software for clogzillas? I'm not holding my breath, either ;)
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Very surprised that this article is basically an ad for colorbyte. I am new to the forum - does this happen very often? Is anyone acting as an editor to weed out this kind of not so subtle advertising? I will be watching for this in future articles.
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I am not convinced that threethousand greenbacks are justified to be put in colorbytes account for use with my 11880. Seriously not, and I am not willing to allocate my time to test this. Just my opinion of course, but there are other and also very good solutions and PrinTao stops at 44 inch btw.
3K! Utterly ridiculous.
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You know, when I first read the article my first thought was that "this is just an advertisement". And I was going to post, but thought I might being too negative. Many articles are by people wanting to sell you something -a workshop, a paid site, etc. But, they are giving you something, a good tutorial, and then letting you know what else they do. In this case I received nothing but a hard sell. Even if the author suggested other competitive products after pushing his own I would have felt better about the piece.
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I feel duped into spending my time reading this article. The title, and lead-in blurb are extremely misleading. It is not about building a better profile, but rather about giving up on building a profile. The lead-in, "building ... high quality profiles for papers can be a challenging hit or miss situation.." creates the clear perception that the piece will be about improving the quality of paper profiles. This was certainly not the case. I further think that when the suggestions in a written piece are really directed only at Epson users, then that should be made clear up front. And, I would further suggest, the statement that "it's vital that the ink recipe you choose is always the same one that was used to print the target it was made from" is not what was meant; rather it should be: it's vital that the ink recipe you choose is always the same one that was used to make the profile you have selected, OR: ...to print the target THE PROFILE was made from. The "it" in Pannozzo's statement can only refer back to the ink recipe, which isn't what is meant. The whole piece was frustrating. --Barbara
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I feel duped into spending my time reading this article. The title, and lead-in blurb are extremely misleading. It is not about building a better profile, but rather about giving up on building a profile. The lead-in, "building ... high quality profiles for papers can be a challenging hit or miss situation.." creates the clear perception that the piece will be about improving the quality of paper profiles. This was certainly not the case. I further think that when the suggestions in a written piece are really directed only at Epson users, then that should be made clear up front. And, I would further suggest, the statement that "it's vital that the ink recipe you choose is always the same one that was used to print the target it was made from" is not what was meant; rather it should be: it's vital that the ink recipe you choose is always the same one that was used to make the profile you have selected, OR: ...to print the target THE PROFILE was made from. The "it" in Pannozzo's statement can only refer back to the ink recipe, which isn't what is meant. The whole piece was frustrating. --Barbara
Barbara, unless you have bought into Window 8 you have no conception of what frustration means!
;-)
Rob C
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What I found particularly insidious about the article/advert was the introduction of a new term that isn't normally used in discussions on Colour management: "Ink recipe".
Trying to create a new term seems to me to just be a way of creating FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt), rather than just using the well known and used description of 'media setting'. The last thing colour management needs anyone associated with the industry making it more complicated than it needs to be.
'Ink recipe' would be more intuitively used to describe the actual constituents of the ink itself eg pigment, dye, solvent, sublimation etc.
Media settings are important and help lift an acceptable profile to a good one.
Ten years ago finding the correct media settings for non-OEM papers did require a degree of trial and experimentation, but there were, and still are, plenty of helpful articles out on the web about the subject along with freely downloadable test images that helped the assessment of the results. Now in 2013 most of the good paper manufacturers offer credible recommendations for media setting that work well for most commonly used printers.
My experience suggests that just staying with the manufacturers recommendations will result in a very good profile without any particular fuss now.
Very surprised that this article is basically an ad for colorbyte. I am new to the forum - does this happen very often?
It's an increasingly common trend here and was commented on at length at http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=84795.0 until the thread was locked.
Lula is evolving from an enthusiast 'fine art' site to one with more commercial intent.
you have no conception of what frustration means!
We all know about frustration, here it's about you hijacking another thread and moaning about things you can't be bothered to learn. :-(
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Rob, there's so much help out there.
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=making+windows+8+look+like+xp (https://www.google.co.uk/#q=making+windows+8+look+like+xp)
Apologies for taking this thread off topic.
Even better: Christoph came around the other day and managed to fix me with a good, working E-mail setup once more and also considerable help with the PS system. ;-)
All in all, only a very few glitches remain: I've recounted the CanoScan problem elsewhere, in Coffee and an initial rejection of my HP B9180 printer software CD was fixed late last night when I delved rather deeply into the Internet and HP Problem solver sites. Didn't even need my CD in the end - the installation came down through the wires...
Rob C
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What I found particularly insidious about the article/advert was the introduction of a new term that isn't normally used in discussions on Colour management: "Ink recipe".
Trying to create a new term seems to me to just be a way of creating FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt), rather than just using the well known and used description of 'media setting'. The last thing colour management needs anyone associated with the industry making it more complicated than it needs to be.
'Ink recipe' would be more intuitively used to describe the actual constituents of the ink itself eg pigment, dye, solvent, sublimation etc.
Media settings are important and help lift an acceptable profile to a good one.
Ten years ago finding the correct media settings for non-OEM papers did require a degree of trial and experimentation, but there were, and still are, plenty of helpful articles out on the web about the subject along with freely downloadable test images that helped the assessment of the results. Now in 2013 most of the good paper manufacturers offer credible recommendations for media setting that work well for most commonly used printers.
My experience suggests that just staying with the manufacturers recommendations will result in a very good profile without any particular fuss now.
It's an increasingly common trend here and was commented on at length at http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=84795.0 until the thread was locked.
Lula is evolving from an enthusiast 'fine art' site to one with more commercial intent.
We all know about frustration, here it's about you hijacking another thread and moaning about things you can't be bothered to learn. :-(
Oh my, so sorry! But a new year and new, spiritual resolutions beckon; what are yours?
You'll just have to start your own international photographic chat site, and then you can lock and unlock at will!
;-)
Rob C
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Given the negativity of the comments about this article I'm surprised that Michael or Kevin have not responded? I'd be interested in understanding their take on this article and why they felt it was worth publishing.
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Interesting, first considering the number of times this article has been read there is not that much so called negative comments. Readers have been asking for more technical information type of articles. Sometimes the best place to go for that kind of information is the manufacturers and those that work with these technologies on an everyday basis. If you have ever used a RIP and especially ImagePrint you'll know that these guys know what they are talking about and as I mentioned in the What's New section, they make a great product resulting in super nice prints. We have reviewed ImagePrint on this site in the past and many readers swear by the software. The article introduces the reader to another level of understanding regarding what it takes to make a good print. It helps you the reader understand that there is more than just a profile to be concerned with in making good prints. Yeah, maybe John got a plug in for his company and that is OK. John has contributed to this site on numerous occasions and so have other manufacturers or dealer representatives. This site is about delivering good information for the readers and none of our contributors are paid for their article contributions. If you don't like the aspect of the so called commercialism then read around it or don't click through to their sites. The same can be said about other contributors such as photographers. The bottom line is we felt it was a good article, it exposed another layer of understanding the printing process and also helped the reader know what to look for when printing or looking at a printing solution. Maybe my one mistake was listing it as a tutorial and not an article.
Kevin Raber
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Kevin,
Thank you for your response. It helps me put the article in perspective. FYI, I did use image print until I bought the 4900, at which time I felt my results were just fine without it. Regardless, I think it is a great product for those that need it.
And, as I said, I don't have any problem with contributors promoting themselves or their products. I just thought this was too blatant. Just one man's opinion.
Great site!
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Interesting, first considering the number of times this article has been read there is not that much so called negative comments.
Most people will just ignore poor content, can't be bothered to complain or are too scared to.
Readers have been asking for more technical information type of articles.
Well this one doesn't fit that bill.
The title suggests it might be about profile building, but it isn't at all.
A brief summary could be;
"Getting the right amount of ink on the paper is crucial for best performance, but it's really difficult so forget trying to do it yourself and buy our product instead."
It's just another example of Lula dumbing down :-(
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Maybe my one mistake was listing it as a tutorial and not an article.
It's all I wanted to point out - it's not a tutorial and it's not about profile creation. And I've got nothing against the aspect of so called of commercialism.
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Most people will just ignore poor content, can't be bothered to complain or are too scared to.
Well this one doesn't fit that bill.
The title suggests it might be about profile building, but it isn't at all.
A brief summary could be;
"Getting the right amount of ink on the paper is crucial for best performance, but it's really difficult so forget trying to do it yourself and buy our product instead."
It's just another example of Lula dumbing down :-(
There is nothing to complain about. Take the article at face value and if it isn't your cup of tea............that's the way it is.
As far as Lula "dumbing down"..........that is simply your own arrogant opinion. Instead of being a so pissy try writing an article displaying your vast intelligence.
I would contribute, but I'm just a happy snapper using yesterdays technology, and articles such as this one help my understanding of the art or craft.......whatever you want to call it.
Just my humble opinion,
Rich
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I would contribute, ... and articles such as this one help my understanding of the art or craft....
So, perhaps you could enlighten us as to how exactly this article has advanced your understanding of the craft ..
As far as Lula "dumbing down"..........that is simply your own arrogant opinion
I'd suggest you be slightly careful there, ever hear of the saying 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread'
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqiOBp4ITlM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqiOBp4ITlM)
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Maybe my one mistake was listing it as a tutorial and not an article.
Kevin Raber
Yes!!!
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Methinks that everyone is protesting way too much. This topic was covered quite a while ago in one of Mark Dubovy's articles where he commented on the problems with the "ink recipe" aka the normal Epson print driver. Others on the Internet have touched on this as well including Scott Martin who has some pretty good advice on how to choose which setting to use for third party papers and has a good test image for figuring this out. I don't mind that the author is affiliated with a company seeking to sell something; this is clearly disclosed and readers can choose how much weight to put into what he says. There is also the wonderful ArgyllCMS software out there which is 100% free and allows one to do a lot of customization in printing.
Personally, I found the article interesting and mildly informative but then I'm still running Windows 7 (because it just works).
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There is nothing to complain about. Take the article at face value and if it isn't your cup of tea............that's the way it is.
Well I'm not the only one to complain about it and 'at face value' it's deceiving by offering a 'tutorial' in building better profiles, but just proving to be an advert.
As far as Lula "dumbing down"..........that is simply your own arrogant opinion.
Not just my opinion, see the thread referenced above.
Instead of being a so pissy try writing an article displaying your vast intelligence.
I would contribute, but I'm just a happy snapper using yesterdays technology, and articles such as this one help my understanding of the art or craft.......whatever you want to call it.
Just my humble opinion,
As you've said you may not not know much about the subject, but this 'tutorial' won't have improved much, if any, of your understanding of the subject. It certainly won't have improved your chances of building a better profile.
With 35 years experience of electronic imaging and nearly ten years running a custom profiling business, I do have some appreciation of the issues and good articles on profile building are few and far between. I have written on this subject for my own business and after over 100k views the only complaints on the articles I've written have been typographic errors missed on proof reading and the lack of 100% coverage of manufacturer's driver screen shots. (If you have any idea how many inkjet & dye-sub printers and the variations of OS that are possible you'd know that providing 100% coverage of that is economically impossible for a small business).
Whilst on that basis I could write an article for Lula on the subject, Michael would be far better served by commissioning an article by one of the real world class experts that contribute here such as Scott or Andrew.
Now if you have anything constructive to add to the debate on this issue, please do.
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Well I'm not the only one to complain about it and 'at face value' it's deceiving by offering a 'tutorial' in building better profiles, but just proving to be an advert.Not just my opinion, see the thread referenced above.As you've said you may not not know much about the subject, but this 'tutorial' won't have improved much, if any, of your understanding of the subject. It certainly won't have improved your chances of building a better profile.
With 35 years experience of electronic imaging and nearly ten years running a custom profiling business, I do have some appreciation of the issues and good articles on profile building are few and far between. I have written on this subject for my own business and after over 100k views the only complaints on the articles I've written have been typographic errors missed on proof reading and the lack of 100% coverage of manufacturer's driver screen shots. (If you have any idea how many inkjet & dye-sub printers and the variations of OS that are possible you'd know that providing 100% coverage of that is economically impossible for a small business).
Whilst on that basis I could write an article for Lula on the subject, Michael would be far better served by commissioning an article by one of the real world class experts that contribute here such as Scott or Andrew.
Now if you have anything constructive to add to the debate on this issue, please do.
Okay, the above's not aimed specifically at myself, but your treatise has explained your remarks in an earlier post replying to my problems with computers. You simply know too much. This isn't criticism; this is the reality. Many people, especially of my generation, have almost none of your knowledge in computer sciences. Our instinctive reaction is the fear that whatever we do to the computer will simply make something that's currently working go futt, and we will never know what the hell we did and how to fix it.
For example, I have discovered that a refusal by my current Nikon Capture NX2 software to function in my new Windows 8 is to be expected. The solution is to go to Nikon and download a newer version that's W8 compatible, one called Capture NX 2.4.5 Full Version. How the hell was I supposed to know that? The original CD downloaded perfectly, the icon appeared on the desktop, and all looked normal. Except it wouldn't do anything once the programme was activated and up on the monitor. Things should either work or not work, not play hide and seek with the poor sod using them. Anyway, I now have the capability back in Windows 8, and can continue along the path to perdition.
;-)
Rob C
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Well, Kevin mentioned not a lot of negative comments on the "tutorial" versus times read, and I'm one of the "offended" readers who didn't bother to comment, so now I figure I should.
What the article boils down to is "you will never be able to build a really good profile yourself, so, really, you are screwed unless you buy our product." (If you don't believe me, go re-read the article.) That's not informative, that's a hard sell. I don't mind people posting articles extolling the virtues of their products as long as they are clearly identified as such and have a reasonably low level of FUD in the content. I don't doubt that the ImagePrint RIP is very very good. But the article seriously fails on both of my criteria.
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You simply know too much.
No one knows too much
Many people, especially of my generation, have almost none of your knowledge in computer sciences.
Please don't play the 'I'm an old man too old to learn' card, it's pathetic and derogatory. If you take that approach you do a great disservice to your generation. I know very many octogenarians who make the effort to learn enough about the technology they want to use so that they can use it effectively.
'Too old' isn't an excuse for not making an effort to learn.
Most mature people also wouldn't butt into other peoples conversations and try to change the subject the way you seem to feel is acceptable here.
You've been around this forum long enough to know where to post questions or discussion about specific subjects like computers, high jacking other's threads is either simple antagonism or deliberate foolishness.
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No one knows too muchPlease don't play the 'I'm an old man too old to learn' card, it's pathetic and derogatory. If you take that approach you do a great disservice to your generation. I know very many octogenarians who make the effort to learn enough about the technology they want to use so that they can use it effectively.
'Too old' isn't an excuse for not making an effort to learn.
Most mature people also wouldn't butt into other peoples conversations and try to change the subject the way you seem to feel is acceptable here.
You've been around this forum long enough to know where to post questions or discussion about specific subjects like computers, high jacking other's threads is either simple antagonism or deliberate foolishness.
That's a charming way to end the year; thank you for the good wishes.
Rob C
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I read the article. Was disappointed to be presented with a sales speech rather than a document trying to teach me something. Shrugged it off. Then saw Kevin's comment about "the article (sic) has a lot of views but not many negative comments". So I'll do my bit to provide honest feedback: I found the "article" to be utterly confusing, until it became clear that its only purpose was to lead into a sales speech.