Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: Alan Smallbone on October 18, 2013, 04:39:45 pm
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Fujifilm announce the upgraded X-E2 today, available in limited quantities the middle of Nov. some nice improvements and upgrades, nice that Fuji listens to the customer base:
http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n131018_01.html
Alan
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Does anyone know if a minimum shutter speed can be set for Auto ISO?
That's one thing that can frustrate me about the X-E1.
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X-E2 allows you to set Auto ISO parameters with min / max ISO limits PLUS a minimum shutter speed, which you have to set and is fixed throughout the AutoISO range.
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The fact that they listen to their customers and they keep improving the cameras (see the recent X100 firmware upgrade) made me buy the X-E1 instead of other mirrorless so it pays to do this
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Is the "extended" iso 100 only in jpg mode? like other older models? It just says available as extended. I would really like a base raw iso of 100 for raw.
Also, is the iso 100 (in jpg mode) on the X-E1 an extended? I have never worked with it much since I tend to only shoot raw.
I see extended as like pushing the base iso of the old Canon 1ds MKII to 50 from the listed iso of 100. It was always considered to have less DR than 100.
Paul Caldwell
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Looks like they are ironing out the bugs on new models.
I am quite attracted to Fuji..
However the sore sticking point is the flash system or lack of.
I need dedicated wireless flash and HSS, Fuji offer neither currently this is a big deal for some folks
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However the sore sticking point is the flash system or lack of.
I need dedicated wireless flash and HSS, Fuji offer neither currently this is a big deal for some folks
Not an official feature and no HSS, but I've used a Nikon SB-900 connected to an XE-1 via a Nikon SC-28 - Flashgun set to either (M) or (A), obviously no TTL etc. Won't standard 'Plus III' Pocket Wizards cover your 'dedicated wireless flash' requirement ?
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X-E2 allows you to set Auto ISO parameters with min / max ISO limits PLUS a minimum shutter speed, which you have to set and is fixed throughout the AutoISO range.
Geez...this is better than nothing but it's still not very good. What is so freakin' difficult about implementing a minimum shutter speed based on the focal length of the lens you're using?!
Menu options for minimum Tv:
A: 1/focal length
B: 1/(focal length x 1.5)
C: 1/(focal length x 2)
D: 1/(focal length x3)
E: Auto (begins with A, biases towards D as focal length increases)
Doesn't anyone testing these cameras suggest/insist on stuff like this?! I sometimes wonder if pre-pro testing is much more than a mutual ass-kissing exercise between makers and testers.
-Dave-
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Doesn't anyone testing these cameras suggest/insist on stuff like this?! I sometimes wonder if pre-pro testing is much more than a mutual ass-kissing exercise between makers and testers.
-Dave-
Dave,
Your right. You'd be surprised at the efforts photographers go to to get a loaner or a camera deal. (maybe not)
It's crazy considering, but yes, most pretty much say what the manufacturer wants to hear and if not, they are ignored. There is always exceptions.
Fuji USA was the best I ever dealt with as they gave stuff, asked for honest opinions and never seemed to get their feelings hurt or ask for edited quotes about products.
Maybe that's changed, I dunno.
I will say that I find the new fuji interesting because the out of camera looks are pretty and the high iso is very good, especially on people. For me I'd like to see more lenses, a few longer ones and better video with stabilization, but in regards to a still camera the files I've seen from the previous generations were very nice. (and I'm not looking for a free camera though would take a truck load of gold bars if offered.)
Actually given all the movement in mirrorless, what I'd like to see is about 20 mpx on stills, 2.5 k to 3k in video, in an aps c size sensor( or 43), small lenses with fast primes like the Olympus M43, though even faster something in the 1.2 to 1.4 range in primes, 2.0 in zooms (I know the zooms would be large), gh3 level video, dual sound channels, Olympus style and build quality, Olympus 5 axis stabilization, Fuji color and iso.
IMO
BC
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Geez...this is better than nothing but it's still not very good.
Dave,
I agree with a lot of what you say, but on this we differ. I don't want more menu options, don't need minimum variable shutter speeds - thank God for simplicity, in this modern quagmire of menus and auto 'this' and auto 'that'.
If I want a min shutter speed, I'll set it. I need 1/1000 - I'll set it. I need 1/60 - I'll set that too. If I want to vary min shutter speed depending on which lens I'm using I'll remember to change the setting each time I change the lens - It's not going to tax my brain too much (a little, yes - but I'll survive it).
Actually, I've never wanted to set auto Tv based on which lens I'm using. I have wanted to set a speed which will freeze motion or sometimes even capture a degree of motion - irrespective of which lens I'm using.
So from my POV, kudos to Fuji, for yet again keeping to the ethos of simplicity and not overloading their menus and variables with non-essential options. I don't think this was an oversight.
Since I've been using the Fuji, I've got to say i'm seriously impressed with the speed at which they rollout firmware updates, introduce new features and respond to user feedback. It's a young, progressive design team with a good sense of direction, IMO.
All best,
M
ps Aren't they also the first to introduce the digital split image focusing aid ?
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M, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't have a problem with ultra-tweakability so long as the camera's menu system doesn't keep shoving the details in my face once I've set 'em up. BTW, I use my X-E1 in manual mode most of the time...the camera's choice of shutter speed in Aperture priority is too often too slow. Oh, another thing...since the X-E1 allows auto ISO in "manual" mode it should also allow biasing the ISO via the exposure compensation dial. Why implement something halfway? As it is I set the ISO manually too.
-Dave-
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Oh, another thing...since the X-E1 allows auto ISO in "manual" mode it should also allow biasing the ISO via the exposure compensation dial. Why implement something halfway? As it is I set the ISO manually too.
Dave,
Well, it does ... sort of.
If you set the Fuji to either Av or Tv, AutoISO, top dial EC compensation works.
If you set both aperture and shutter to [A], effectively [P] mode, AutoISO, top dial EC compensation works.
If you set both aperture and shutter manually, AutoISO, the Fuji calculates optimum ISO based on your dial settings. You can now adjust Ev compensation via shutter speed (only) using the left and right arrow keys on the rear dial - about 2/3 stop plus/minus in 1/3 increments.
Since you're 'seeing' the shot live thanks to LiveView, they (Fuji) assume the operator knows, to some degree, what and why he's setting the (dial) settings he has, and they calculate ISO based on that. If you use the EC dial, what variable are you adjusting again - aperture, shutter or ISO - and why ? Just do it via the shutter or aperture dial, if you're way out on your settings.
Another reason to keep things as simple as possible - have you read the manual ? I never use AutoISO but worked the above out by playing with the camera for about 1/2 an hour! What I also don't know is how EC and AutoISO interact in manual mode with the Fuji Dynamic Range calculations but, frankly - I ain't about to find out.
All best,
M
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Not an official feature and no HSS, but I've used a Nikon SB-900 connected to an XE-1 via a Nikon SC-28 - Flashgun set to either (M) or (A), obviously no TTL etc. Won't standard 'Plus III' Pocket Wizards cover your 'dedicated wireless flash' requirement ?
Well I can't get around no HSS Bar using ND filters it's possible to do that of course just a pain.
I can use PW's or inside manual flashes again it's not a deal killer, but takes more time for some shots.
I hope Fuji beef up the flash side of things it is a turn off being honest not having these.
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Dave,
Well, it does ... sort of.
If you set the Fuji to either Av or Tv, AutoISO, top dial EC compensation works.
If you set both aperture and shutter to [A], effectively [P] mode, AutoISO, top dial EC compensation works.
If you set both aperture and shutter manually, AutoISO, the Fuji calculates optimum ISO based on your dial settings. You can now adjust Ev compensation via shutter speed (only) using the left and right arrow keys on the rear dial - about 2/3 stop plus/minus in 1/3 increments.
I know all that stuff...and I've read the manual too. What's missing is the ability to adjust the ISO via the exposure comp dial when using a manually-set aperture & shutter speed. Since the camera can treat ISO as a variable in manual mode (Auto ISO), why doesn't it let you bias it up or down like a proper variable without having to change Av or Tv? If this is due to oversight...okay, Fuji, you missed it. Now add it. If this is due to a difference in philosophy...darn right there's a difference!
-Dave-
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Dave,
I think you misunderstood my post. The rhetorical question " Another reason to keep things as simple as possible - have you read the manual ? " - wasn't aimed at you, it was a reflection on how bloody uninformative the manual is!
No offence was meant or intended.
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I know all that stuff...and I've read the manual too. What's missing is the ability to adjust the ISO via the exposure comp dial when using a manually-set aperture & shutter speed.
Right, this is a huge problem for the way I work. And it seems to be such an easy thing to fix!
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Dave,
I think you misunderstood my post. The rhetorical question " Another reason to keep things as simple as possible - have you read the manual ? " - wasn't aimed at you, it was a reflection on how bloody uninformative the manual is!
No offence was meant or intended.
No offense taken. Just wanted to make clear I hadn't missed anything obvious or documented. Guess I'm just in a kvetching mood at the moment regarding this stuff. Between Olympus not realizing what a nice video platform they'd have in their OM-D line if they'd only wake up to it and Fuji's little niggles in what's otherwise a great system, there are some product designers and pre-pro testers I'd like to whack upside the head. :o
-Dave-
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I'm also attracted to Fuji. I wish the idea of a fold-out and reversible rear screen would catch on with them. I tend to go places where an exposed rear screen could be in harm's way. Plus there are times when it's useful to have an angled screen. I get the retro look and all, very nice, but the internals are modern, maybe sacrifice a little hipster cachet for functionality.
Same goes for the GX-7. The tilting EVF helps, but the rear screen is still exposed.
I guess the thought is that all of them will end up on tables at Starbucks, swaddled in fitted leather cases, sitting beside a MacBook and a latte.
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One ability I love with the Panasonic G range is being able to turn the screen to the body.
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I guess the thought is that all of them will end up on tables at Starbucks, swaddled in fitted leather cases, sitting beside a MacBook and a latte.
A lot of Fuji shooters tend to be old film shooters who appreciate dials, buttons and simplicity in general. They are not hipsters.
Most of them could not care less about tilt LCD monitors, fold outs and reversible screens.
They also tend to passionately dislike menus like those offered by Olympus and Panasonic.
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I agree with your assessment, JV. That's the reason I shoot with a Fuji. Have to say however, there are times I wouldn't mind a tillable LCD screen :-)
Jim
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[...] I get the retro look and all, very nice, but the internals are modern, maybe sacrifice a little hipster cachet for functionality. [...]
I guess the thought is that all of them will end up on tables at Starbucks, swaddled in fitted leather cases, sitting beside a MacBook and a latte.
Real hipsters have vintage Polaroids and wouldn't be caught dead at a Starbucks ;D
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Have to say however, there are times I wouldn't mind a tillable LCD screen :-)
+1000
The lack of a tiltable screen is the one thing that I don't like about my X-E1. And I wouldn't really describe myself as a hipster. Not enough facial hair ;)
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There are many times that I mind a tiltable screen. That's why, despite I'm a lot more attracted to buy Fuji, I got a Sony Nex 6. After 6 months with it, I don't think I'd be any happier with a Fuji, not even with the latest XE2. Right, because of the tiltable screen. I love it. It was the first thing I fancied 10 years ago, when digital cameras started to take on the mass market.
Why still we don't have a FF dslr with a moving screen, it beats me. Another reason to buy another Sony: The A7r. Fuji's lost, Canon's lost. :o
Eduardo
I agree with your assessment, JV. That's the reason I shoot with a Fuji. Have to say however, there are times I wouldn't mind a tillable LCD screen :-)
Jim
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A lot of Fuji shooters tend to be old film shooters who appreciate dials, buttons and simplicity in general. They are not hipsters.
Most of them could not care less about tilt LCD monitors, fold outs and reversible screens.
They also tend to passionately dislike menus like those offered by Olympus and Panasonic.
Simple, that is me! I am nearing 50 and what attracted me to XE & Xpro cameras was the very simple straight forward lay out of the controls. The aperture ring is so natural for me. Call me old school, I badge I proudly wear. However a few kids I know are liking the Fuji cams for all the same reasons. I guess not all of em are hipsters with heads full of mush ;) They even print!
Over the years I have seen people whine in Canon forums about why the 5DII etc...did not have flash or a tilting twisty LCD. I never found much use for them. I do have a Canon G11 and I never have used that screen at all except to review images. I do conceded that some people like them and I get it. I use the LCD for framing & focusing close ups. Just never felt a tilt screen was really truly necessary. Onboard flash however can be handy at times.
I have had a Xe-1 since they first became available, & I am going to buy a XE-2. I think the improvements are worth an upgrade
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I might just end up getting the X-E2. The plan was to stick with my X100 for a year more, especially after the new firmware update, really gave the X100 some more speed.
The lineup of XF lenses does not make it easy to wait, from what I read and see, most of them are outstanding. To top that off, my MIII can't shoot full HD video in 60fps, X-E2 can.
I would like to have the most up to date equipment, I admit that. The thought of missing out on getting better results, bothers me. I try to suppress this nature, but like stated above, this is a serious update from my current X100 and I just might got for the X-E2...
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Spend the money dude - you'll be very happy you did.
I have the X-Pro1 and X-E1 & will be upgrading to the X-E2 when it's available in the UK.
Brian
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A lot of Fuji shooters tend to be old film shooters who appreciate dials, buttons and simplicity in general. They are not hipsters.
Most of them could not care less about tilt LCD monitors, fold outs and reversible screens.
They also tend to passionately dislike menus like those offered by Olympus and Panasonic.
Yup, owner of 2 M's here, and that the way I shot for many years. Also had the early tiny Pentax that fit in an Altoids tin, that was the last one I bought without a folding screen. After I bought it I borrowed an early Canon G and almost immediately found uses for the folding screen, great for macro shots of small creatures, esp. when they are hiding under a bush. Not that my first shots with it were that great, learning to be steady at arm's length is an acquired practice. And I still prefer using a VF...but...When I went back to the M's, there was a dimension now missing from the functionality.
And again, rear screens that aren't protected are a liability. I like the GX-7 a lot, but that screen is in the way.
Not a hipster either, whatever that is. Out here where I live it's just me and wild animals, some walk on 2 legs. But I am a practical hombre, and it's gotta do the work or it doesn't get in. I don't care what it looks like.
Agree about menus, but nearly all of them now have ways around that.
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Spend the money dude - you'll be very happy you did.
I have the X-Pro1 and X-E1 & will be upgrading to the X-E2 when it's available in the UK.
Brian
Just placed an order for it along with XF-35mm and XF-14mm. Even though it will be hard, I am selling my X100, the newly announced XF-23mm made that diction a little easier.
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Yup, owner of 2 M's here, and that the way I shot for many years. Also had the early tiny Pentax that fit in an Altoids tin, that was the last one I bought without a folding screen. After I bought it I borrowed an early Canon G and almost immediately found uses for the folding screen, great for macro shots of small creatures, esp. when they are hiding under a bush. Not that my first shots with it were that great, learning to be steady at arm's length is an acquired practice. And I still prefer using a VF...but...When I went back to the M's, there was a dimension now missing from the functionality.
And again, rear screens that aren't protected are a liability. I like the GX-7 a lot, but that screen is in the way.
Not a hipster either, whatever that is. Out here where I live it's just me and wild animals, some walk on 2 legs. But I am a practical hombre, and it's gotta do the work or it doesn't get in. I don't care what it looks like.
Agree about menus, but nearly all of them now have ways around that.
I like the tilting rear screen of the Panasonic G series cameras because they allow me to flip the screen 180 degrees so the screen is protected from scratches. Only flip it back when I actually need to use it, which isn't often.
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Sure hope the battery life on the new one is better than the X-E1. Just don't get much use at all from them before they run down. Factory new or aftetrmarket, doesn't seem to matter. They run out fast.
Not even cold out yet and they don't last. Temps 25-30 degrees with a breeze and I'm changing batteries after 30-40 shots. Might maket the camera all but useless at 30 below zero.
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If you are only getting 30 40 shots something is wrong. I get close to 225 shots on one battery and this is using a lot of evp. I carry 2 batteries on a shoot but I never need the 2nd in a days shooting.
Using 50/50 AF and manual focus. Shooting raw plus jpg fine.
Paul Caldwell
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I shot a two-hour televised panel discussion with a pair of XE1 bodies yesterday. I got over 800 images total from both cameras, all on the first battery in each camera. Both cameras still showed three bars of battery at the end (though I didn't believe it :) ) So, average of 400 images from each camera on one battery, assuming I was shooting about the same with each.
BTW the Fujis were lovely for this sort of thing -- quiet enough that the audio guys were not bothered at all. (Probably not quiet enough for a movie set with a boom mic, but for this everyone had a wireless lav and those weren't picking up the shutter firing.) Also quiet enough that audience members sitting next to me weren't bothered.