Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: jjj on September 04, 2013, 01:23:40 pm
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Photoshop + Lightroom + Behance web features for $9.99 a month.
So that should make quite a few people happy.
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I wonder what the rate will be outside the US.
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Probably £9.99 here in the UK :(
Interesting to note how few of the faithful had signed up for CC at Photoshop World.
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Photoshop + Lightroom + Behance web features for $9.99 a month.
So that should make quite a few people happy.
Hi,
The pressure is rising for Adobe to meet their number of subscribers goal by year end.
Waiting pays off. I'll wait a bit more, no incentive to rush into a perpetual money drain
with nothing to show for it when subscription stops.
Maybe next year, after the Dec 31st reality check, when it's possible to obtain a frozen
state version for an acceptable price, after stopping the subscription, I may reconsider.
Not before that moment, and without enough additional features/improvements that I
really need.
Cheers,
Bart
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Probably £9.99 here in the UK :(
That would be nearly 60% over the US price >:(
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Hi Bart,
Several weeks ago I spoke with Adobe executives and relayed my concerns about the new CC subscription model (in the context of photography) as well as the concerns that many photographers expressed here. We discussed in what ways we could change/improve the model to help photographers. This included the subscription model itself, pricing, an exit strategy (for folks choosing to end their subscription), and a few other parts.
One thing that was made clear to me is that the subscription model is here to stay. Other parameters can change (for example, the pricing change announced today), but the subscription part will not. I realize that some users will remain opposed to the subscription model, and it's totally their right to feel that way and choose not to sign up for that reason. Nonetheless, I share this info because I believe that asking for a return to the perpetual model is no longer productive.
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Thanks for the info Eric.
One thing that was made clear to me is that the subscription model is here to stay.
I fully appreciate that.
I hope you made the execs aware that similarly some customers might not be here to stay as a result.
an exit strategy (for folks choosing to end their subscription)
Thanks again for bringing this issue to their attention. Getting this issue resolved might make all a major difference to a lot of potential users choosing to subscribe .
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I wonder, is the 9,99$ a permanent price or is it going up to 20$ or even more after Jan 1st???
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Appreciate Eric's info & the spirit in which it was given. But Adobe has done absolutely nothing to address the major problems with their subscription model, & I won't bore folks with reiterating these concerns. I keep an antenna up in the vain hope they will reconsider; but they appear to be cementing in the post -Photoshop era for me and like-minded folks.
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One thing that was made clear to me is that the subscription model is here to stay.
subscription _ONLY_ , nobody was irritated by subscription _OPTION_
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I wonder, is the 9,99$ a permanent price or is it going up to 20$ or even more after Jan 1st???
That is the base price and not a promotional price. I.e. unlike the other offers, after a year your base price is the same, and doesn't go up to the full price like the other offers.
Hope that helps...
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
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for a return to the perpetual model is no longer productive.
not "return to", but "keeping an option" along with... damn, just sell ACR as a packaged product and that will be it
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subscription _ONLY_ , nobody was irritated by subscription _OPTION_
Ok. To be clear, I was told that subscription only for Ps is here to stay. Going forward, perpetual license for Ps is not on the table.
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Hi Bart,
Several weeks ago I spoke with Adobe executives and relayed my concerns about the new CC subscription model (in the context of photography) as well as the concerns that many photographers expressed here. We discussed in what ways we could change/improve the model to help photographers. This included the subscription model itself, pricing, an exit strategy (for folks choosing to end their subscription), and a few other parts.
One thing that was made clear to me is that the subscription model is here to stay. Other parameters can change (for example, the pricing change announced today), but the subscription part will not. I realize that some users will remain opposed to the subscription model, and it's totally their right to feel that way and choose not to sign up for that reason. Nonetheless, I share this info because I believe that asking for a return to the perpetual model is no longer productive.
Hi Eric,
I appreciate your personal role in furthering the quality of the various product components, and the fact that you took the trouble to react.
I understand that the subscription model is here to stay, it has to do with passing the maturity stage of the product lifecycle. Things like the exit strategy though, still seriously suck, but that's not your decision. Very well paid, presumably wise persons took those decisions, and that's their job, to take decisions that are good for the company and the shareholders. Whether they took the right decisions, especially for the stakeholders (not just shareholders but also people who's livelihood, in part, depends on it), remains to be seen. The crystal balls are a bit fuzzy about that.
We have a saying in Dutch, one of many that go back to the seafaring times of centuries ago, but still used today:
"The shore will turn the vessel" (the vessel's course).
Let's hope the moment of impact doesn't cause permanent damage ...
Wish you well, Cheers,
Bart
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In the word processing there was Wordstar, then WordPerfect, then Word; all major must-have word processing production tools over several decades.
We photographers have Photoshop in its many forms and versions. Rest assured, there will be another image processing successor that will appeal to many of us voicing the current concerns.
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That would be nearly 60% over the US price >:(
http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html (http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html)
No sign of the new offer on the UK site. £17.83 / month, or nearly 3 times the US price.
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Probably £9.99 here in the UK :(
Interesting to note how few of the faithful had signed up for CC at Photoshop World.
Here are the UK prices:
Tax-inclusive: 8.78 GBP
Tax-exclusive: 7.14 GBP
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
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Personally I'd been wondering for many years as to when the subscription model would appear. Software companies only made the profits they did because it was a new marketplace and it was inevitable that once products matured and upgrades stopped being the must have purchases they once were, companies like Adobe, Microsoft would have to either come up with new products or get people to subscribe or rely on brand new customers to make up, but as current customers will also be retiring/dying etc, they'd find revenues would diminish considerably.
This may mean even big software companies could go under which would be an even worse situation than the subscription model.
The problem with subscription is threefold - firstly the price as ultimately it costs more.
Secondly very, very few people will genuinely use more than two or three of the programmes, so the bargain you get all the software for £** isn't quite the bargain it at first appears.
Finally - the exit strategy, there needs to be one as change of circumstances such as say retirement means you loose access to your work with the software you paid an awful lot of money for.
First issue has been partially addressed with a $10 price for two items, let's hope price is equitable in say the UK or Australia where things cost a lot more for no extra anything. [And apparently it is :) ]
Second problem would be sorted by saying 2 main progs cost **, 3 cost ** and whole suite costs **
Third problem is the real biggie - this has to be sorted if Adobe wants everyone to buy into the CC model. The most obvious/sensible solution is that after ** many years you get to keep using your current version with no more upgrades and if you start to rent again then the clock starts from zero once more.
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Here are the UK prices:
Tax-inclusive: 8.78 GBP
Tax-exclusive: 7.14 GBP
Thanks for this info.
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Hope that helps...
Thanks, clarity about what's being offered does help.
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Here are the UK prices:
Hi Mike,
Thanks for some more information, but wouldn't it be easier if Adobe updated the websites?
Current price for Dutch customers EUR 24.59 / month (incl.VAT) on an annual subscription basis.
That will presumably also change, because it would not only be an insult, but also illegal to have such price differentiation between European countries.
Cheers,
Bart
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One thing that was made clear to me is that the subscription model is here to stay. Other parameters can change (for example, the pricing change announced today), but the subscription part will not. I realize that some users will remain opposed to the subscription model, and it's totally their right to feel that way and choose not to sign up for that reason. Nonetheless, I share this info because I believe that asking for a return to the perpetual model is no longer productive.
1. I accept that they don't want to return to the perpetual model and their plan as of today is to not do so, but this will be the markets choice. Not theirs. If the market speaks loud enough they will be forced to change their plans. And frankly, companies are forced into such decisions almost daily. It's a reality of business.
2. Sharing what you really need and want in a product is never unproductive. Well, as long as a company is willing to listen. And they might not be now. But the future isn't here yet.
I appreciate your insight into Adobe and your representation.. But do let them know that sometimes when you shoot yourself in the foot.. the real danger is from infection.
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Hi Mike,
Thanks for some more information, but wouldn't it be easier if Adobe updated the websites?
Current price for Dutch customers EUR 24.59 / month (incl.VAT) on an annual subscription basis.
That will presumably also change, because it would not only be an insult, but also illegal to have such price differentiation between European countries.
Cheers,
Bart
Those are the prices for the PS / Lightroom offer. We don't have pages online for it just yet. It looks like the page you posted is the regular offer for single CC subscription, which is our regular price.
We are updating the FAQ later today, and it will hopefully contain all of the international prices.
Does that make sense?
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
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So that's the price for people who have photoshop CS3 or later. (I think it's good value and will be signing up)
What's the options for people who don't have an existing product?
There must be quite a few people out there with 'moody' copies ;)
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Those are the prices for the PS / Lightroom offer. We don't have pages online for it just yet. It looks like the page you posted is the regular offer for single CC subscription, which is our regular price.
As far as I can see, it's the Photoshop CC only page, not the CC suite.
We are updating the FAQ later today, and it will hopefully contain all of the international prices
Does that make sense?
Time will tell, I suppose.
Cheers,
Bart
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So that's the price for people who have photoshop CS3 or later. (I think it's good value and will be signing up)
What's the options for people who don't have an existing product?
There must be quite a few people out there with 'moody' copies ;)
Unfortunately, the offer is currently only for previous customers.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
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Here are the UK prices:
Tax-inclusive: 8.78 GBP
So only 30% more than the USA then ?
Curious how an Adobe employee joins and starts commenting on the day all this announced.
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Third problem is the real biggie - this has to be sorted if Adobe wants everyone to buy into the CC model. The most obvious/sensible solution is that after ** many years you get to keep using your current version with no more upgrades and if you start to rent again then the clock starts from zero once more.
Unfortunately being able to continue to use a "frozen features" product after terminating one's subscription would effectively mean it has a perpetual license that kicks in at the retirement of the subscription. As much as such a policy makes good sense for consumers, that is exactly what Adobe has stated they're committed to eliminating. The problem Adobe has with perpetual licenses is that they are perpetual - once you've bought one, the cash stops flowing from you to Adobe unless you decide to buy an upgrade some day. That's what they're trying to get away from, turning your usage of, say, Photoshop from a one-time purchase into an on-going guaranteed revenue stream that continues for a long as you use the product. Upgrades and updates are not the product being sold in the subscription, it is the ongoing usage of the software that is the product sold, even if it's never to be updated from this day forward. When you stop paying, you stop using, just like the telephone or the electricity. I don't like it but that seems to be the new reality. (Actually it's an old reality - back in the mainframe days before PCs came on the market you leased all the software for your IBM 370.)
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There must be quite a few people out there with 'moody' copies ;)
Why should they get any sort of deal ?
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So only 30% more than the USA then ?
Curious how an Adobe employee joins and starts commenting on the day all this announced.
I am not sure what you are implying, but its pretty straight forward. I came to the site and saw questions around CC. Since I had some of the answers, I created an account and answered them.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
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Unfortunately being able to continue to use the "frozen features" product after terminating one's subscription would effectively mean it has a perpetual license that kicks in at the retirement of the subscription. As much as that policy makes good sense, that is exactly what Adobe has stated they're committed to moving away from.
Except they've already committed that LR will continue to be available on a perpetual licence model.
How will that work ? Say in three years time when we have LR 7, if you want to drop your PSCC+LR subscription taken out at LR5 what are you left with ?
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I have Photoshop CS6 Extended that is part of the Design Creative Suite and Lightroom 5. I understand that I do NOT qualify for the new photographer's offer. Real good, Adobe.
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Except they've already committed that LR will continue to be available on a perpetual licence model.
not they, but Eric Chan... and not "commited" but more careful wording... and not forever... and not in writing... once LR matures... it is business, nothing personal... I 'd even be OK w/ subscription - for as long as I can get ACR only subscription for less $ ::)
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I like this $9.99 for both LR & Photoshop. My problem is that I just renewed my CC account for $49.99 the end of last month not knowing this offer was coming. All I really need is LR & Photoshop. Guess I will have to contact Adobe to see if I can switch.
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Curious how an Adobe employee joins and starts commenting on the day all this announced.
Hum...I guess you missed Mike's post where he said: Thanks. Ive been a long time lurker (Im an amateur photographer), and have learned a ton from the site. I figured I would finally get around to creating an account, and try to help out. in this thread (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=81816.msg660577#msg660577).
Personally, I think you should welcome Mike and not question his motives...
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I too am Interested in the new offer. But I just took out the single app plan last week (as that "special offer" was about to expire).
So do I cancel my current plan (as it is within 30 days) and then take the new Upgrade from CS5 to CC and LR5 plan, or will I be able to move across to the new plan?
Anyone know how this works?
Thanks
Phil
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Just want to give a thumbs up vote here.
I had no intention of moving past CS6 now or in the foreseeable future. I expect that by the time CS6 fails in convenience, or lacks state of the art processing, there will be viable alternatives to choose from.
But this pricing structure is pretty equivalent to what I have been paying all along for each version upgrade.
This works for me.
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Why should they get any sort of deal ?
I wasnt suggesting they should. I was just wondering what the entry price was if you didn't have a legit copy.
(For the record I don't own/use any cracked software)
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I too am Interested in the new offer. But I just took out the single app plan last week (as that "special offer" was about to expire).
So do I cancel my current plan (as it is within 30 days) and then take the new Upgrade from CS5 to CC and LR5 plan, or will I be able to move across to the new plan?
Anyone know how this works?
Thanks
Phil
Just wait until the offer is live, and then contact support. They will be able to help you out.
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One factor that I think should be considered is asking yourself how much are you currently paying on an annualized basis to upgrade to newer versions of CS and LR when they are released.
In my personal case, I checked my Adobe order history and since Sept 2010 my total pre-tax outlay on upgrades to CS5 then CS6, and to LR 4 then LR5 has been $485, or ~ $160/year. So assuming that I was to maintain such an upgrade policy going forward (if it was still viable which is not the case for PS), and assuming the monthly price remains at $10, by going the rental route I could conceivably save $40/year. In other words a minor cost savings over the current perceptual model, and therefore a positive factor in my ultimate decision making process (It was not even close to break-even proposition with the offer from a few months back for the $20 or $30/month options previously for PS CC (and if I recall correctly, included a host of other CS programs I do not use)).
The inability however to opt out and keep running the software at whatever version you were up to at the time would remain as a negative factor to consider in the decision to opt in to the rental program. Is it enough to sway me one way or the other? It's getting close now and I could see myself going either way on it ...
But in my case, I just upgraded to LR5 last week so at this time I will continue to sit tight with what I have and see where things lie in a year or so.
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Those are the prices for the PS / Lightroom offer
Mike,
I'm a perpetual LR 5 owner, & Photoshop CC "only" subscriber @ $9.99 / mo. intro offer (and guess there are many like me).
Will we be seeing an offer to be rolled into the LR/PS CC bundle at the new pricing structure?
And thanks to you and Eric for the clarity.
Rand
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So that's the price for people who have photoshop CS3 or later. (I think it's good value and will be signing up)
MrSmith, my understanding is that the new pricing and bundle is intended by Adobe as a "thank you" to existing Photoshop customers.
When the Ps CC subscription model was announced in June, one of the big pieces of initial negative feedback expressed here (and all across the photography community) was that it felt like a poke in the eye to long-time Photoshop users. There was nothing in it for them for having purchased Photoshop previously, having upgraded throughout the years, and being a loyal customer. This new pricing & bundle program for CS3--CS6 users is intended to address that.
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Mike,
I'm a perpetual LR 5 owner, & Photoshop CC "only" subscriber @ $9.99 / mo. intro offer (and guess there are many like me).
Will we be seeing an offer to be rolled into the LR/PS CC bundle at the new pricing structure?
And thanks to you and Eric for the clarity.
Rand
Your plan will automatically be upgraded to the new offer.
i.e. you will get access to PS / Lightroom, and your price won't go up after the first year (like it will will the previous PS promo).
Hope that helps...
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
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It is true that at present there is not a direct "exit strategy" -- i.e., you cannot use Photoshop CC to view Photoshop files (with all their smart object and adjustment layer glory, etc.) if your subscription ends.
On the other hand, in terms of being able to view and use your images, there is an indirect exit strategy: Lightroom. Lr is offered as a perpetual product, so it will continue to run should you choose to end your subscription. Lr can also read and convert TIFFs and PSDs. There are limits, of course: you can't directly edit the internals of the document, such as smart objects, adjustment layers, masks, etc.) But you can still convert to other formats (e.g., export as a new TIFF), print them, etc.
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Mike,
Fabulous. A perfect denouement to this drama. ;D
Congrats and props to Adobe for a very reasonable, cost effective, solution for us hobbyist, yet fine art leaning, photographer types.
Rand
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I'm a grad student in the U.S. I learned today that the price of CS6 design premium & production premium for students has almost doubled from $350 to $600! My university bookstore (located on a huge campus) has not sold a single CC subscription, but apparently they quickly sold out of some of the CS6 packages at the old prices. The old price of $350 for a perpetual license is actually $10 cheaper than the annual CC subscription after the first year. Yes you get more apps with CC but how many students would use the extras? Unsurprisingly it seems many students are more interested in the perpetual license model. (Of course if a student did want the CC subscription, until mid December they'd be better off buying it directly from Adobe, so the "no sales of CC yet" might change once the higher pricing on the Adobe website kicks in.)
I understand Adobe prefers its customers move to the subscription model. But I never guessed Adobe would force encourage them to do so by raising prices so aggressively on the old perpetual version. Yikes. Personally I suspect at $600 a pop many students will simply pirate it, which is a sad state of affairs for everyone. I already own Photoshops CS6 and Lightroom. In my case I'm not at all keen on spending $360 per year (after the first year) for the 3 applications I'd actually use (Photoshop, Lightroom, Audition). At $120 per year I'll consider CC for Photoshop and Lightroom, and try to figure out something else for editing audio--maybe something from another company.
Anyway, thanks Eric for advocating for us photographers. It's appreciated!!
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Except they've already committed that LR will continue to be available on a perpetual licence model.
I think the wording was more like, "There are no plans at the current time for LR to be subscription only."
Rather than a commitment, I read that as "wait and see", and I'm fine with that. YMMV.
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I'm in the same position as Rand47, so a +1 for Mike Chambers' clarification.
In addition, an atta boy to madmanchan for chiming in and to Mike for coming out of lurking--Oh BTW, Mike, since you've lurked in here for some time (as indeed I have), you must have noticed that a lot of folks play rough in here :).
Ciao,
Doug
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It's obvious (or should be) that Adobe desperately needs new subscribers to keep their subscriber model viable, so they come up with a reasonably priced entry level package apparently geared towards photographers. Photographers are not an insignificant number of CS/CC users.
So, the five dollar foot long.. oh sorry, PS/LR for $9.98 deal comes along and I suppose what I'm getting at is how long is Adobe willing to stay at this price for those who subscribe during their promotion period?
Ideally (for Adobe) everyone sees $9.99 and forgets about their objections to the subscriber model.. because now the price benefits them. After these subscribers get used to this model, the convenience of the cloud features, etc.. the price will rise.. say $15.99.
How does it look now? Faced with the decision of paying $15.99 (and maybe 21.99 six months later, after all the market dictates price) and a no hassle business as usual.. or the dreaded decisions of what to replace CC with, the expense, etc.. Even if they think the price is too high.. they're trapped. Stuck like glue..
To a studio pulling in 100k a year or more I suppose Adobe's software price is reasonable. But what about the 15k a year part timer or 25k a year full timer trying to build.. or the advanced amateur who just wants to use the industry standard and not let his/her skills perish by using ScoobyDoo Photo Play? (this makes me wish for alternative pricing strategies like a "per save" charge.. Same deal, Cloud, Subscription, new updates, but you pay 25 cents for each file you save for the first 100 files that year and 10 cents a file after that for the next 500..)
Demented or not, these are the thoughts running through my head as the sheep get in line to sign up. What can you tell a guy with my concerns about how long the $9.99 subscriptions will stick around? Before I press the button I really want to know.
Thank you
Steve
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Personally, I think you should welcome Mike and not question his motives...
Don't be silly! You should always question people's motives. You should question mine, although you probably have no reason to think I'm other than a user in this context. But Mike isn't just a user, and as user he has a conflict of interest. That's not saying he's dishonest, but let's have no more of this "don't question motives".
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Hum...I guess you missed Mike's post where he said:.............
No, I saw it.
Long time lurker eh ? "Date Registered: 04-09-2013, 18:34:02"
Just happens to register when a major new fire fighting announcement is made by his employers.
and you expect me not to be cynical ?
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It's not a terribly good deal for me.
I've just paid £182 to upgrade to CS6, and I've upgraded to LR5. If I sign up now, I've wasted the money I've paid (£240). Can I get a refund? I think I can guess the answer, but Eric's "this is a thank-you to customers" rings a bit hollow to me.
Logically I wouldn't join a subscription until we get LR6, or until we get significant further upgrades to Photoshop - but I have to sign up now (this year), and never miss a payment.
And if I ever leave CC, is my licence to CS6 still valid, or do I sign that away when I join CC?
Thing is, with Photoshop we're reaching diminishing returns - fewer real new features of value to users with each release. We're getting to the stage when (IMHO) a total new product is needed, not an upgrade. Obviously this is why Adobe are so desparate to move to rental. I'm sure Eric is reporting accurately that Adobe has no intention of going back to perpetual licence for Photoshop, but ultimately the decision will be made by the market, not by Adobe (unless they're completely bonkers).
I don't think I'll be taking up this offer unless:
- It's still open in a year or so, when it would make sense to me
- Or Adobe cares to refund the £240 I've just spend on upgrades
I don't like the feeling of being blackmailed. I know it's not actual blackmail, but I don't like being strong-armed in a direction I don't want to go.
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It's not a terribly good deal for me.
I've just paid £182 to upgrade to CS6, and I've upgraded to LR5. If I sign up now, I've wasted the money I've paid (£240). Can I get a refund? I think I can guess the answer, but Eric's "this is a thank-you to customers" rings a bit hollow to me.
I'm guessing quite a few people will love the new price, but also a lot of people who are probably being specifically targeted by this offer may have done what you did and recently bought CS6/LR5 and are probably not inclined to also subscribe to CC in the next few months. Even though it is a much more attractive deal than before.
I got the impression from the presentation that the new price was the new price, not just another time limited offer. Because in the next year or so when CS6/LR5 users are actually thinking about upgrading, the price will be at the old sticking point which seemed rather unpopular. Which is exactly your position.
Logically I wouldn't join a subscription until we get LR6, or until we get significant further upgrades to Photoshop - but I have to sign up now (this year), and never miss a payment.
Which means you're effectively paying twice.
I don't think I'll be taking up this offer unless:
- It's still open in a year or so, when it would make sense to me
- Or Adobe cares to refund the £240 I've just spend on upgrades
I don't like the feeling of being blackmailed. I know it's not actual blackmail, but I don't like being strong-armed in a direction I don't want to go.
Which continues the issue from when CC only was announced.
And if I ever leave CC, is my licence to CS6 still valid, or do I sign that away when I join CC?
A perpetual licence is just that, forever and is nothing to do with CC.
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"And if I ever leave CC, is my licence to CS6 still valid, or do I sign that away when I join CC?"
A perpetual licence is just that, forever and is nothing to do with CC.
The reason I asked is that when you upgraded Photoshop (perpetual licence) or Lightroom, I seem to recall that the licence for the new product replaced the licence to the older, upgraded product. I had the feeling that you weren't getting a new licence.
Hence the fear that if you go CC on the reduced price for existing licensees, they might replace (i.e. cancel) the perpetual licence, so if you leave CC you can no longer activate the perpetual licence product.
Again, this is something to which I'd need an answer in writing from Adobe.
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I have had times when I had two versions of CS on my computer, licensing one had no effect on the other. They both still worked.
I'm pretty sure you couldn't then sell the old version as full upgradeable which may be what you are thinking about.
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I have had times when I had two versions of CS on my computer, licensing one had no effect on the other. They both still worked.
Yes, BUT you probably had the 'old' version installed prior to the newer, upgraded version.
The question is really about whether or not re-installing CS6 AFTER an upgrade to CC would be validated by Adobe. From my reading of this issue, there is not as yet a clear, unambiguous answer as to whether this is a new product and the old licence is still valid or whether cross-grading deletes/replaces your old licence.
The same holds true for LR.
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ps - e.g. Upgrading a copy of C1 did NOT then allow me to reinstall an older version afterwards.
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Even though it is a much more attractive deal than before.
I really don't feel it's such a great deal. The only thing that's changed,...the guarantee that the intro price would go from 10 to 20 dollars a month. Now it might and it might not. I don't trust adobe to keep prices low to make its customers happy, do you?
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I really don't feel it's such a great deal. The only thing that's changed,...the guarantee that the intro price would go from 10 to 20 dollars a month. Now it might and it might not. I don't trust adobe to keep prices low to make its customers happy, do you?
I'm pretty sure Adobe said the price as announced was not an introductory price that'll go up in a year's time like the other offers.
Also worth bearing in mind that the UK pricing is the same as US pricing, for the first time I can ever recall.
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I'm pretty sure Adobe said the price as announced was not an introductory price that'll go up in a year's time like the other offers.
Taken at face value, it will not go up for CC, but what happens when they decide to introduce CC2 or CCC or whatever?
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Taken at face value, it will not go up for CC, but what happens when they decide to introduce CC2 or CCC or whatever?
The issue there is the concept of versions has gone with CC, so to then do CC2/CCC would upset even more people.
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Is this offer on the Adobe site? I can't find it.
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Seems like it will be available when LR 5.2 is released.
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The issue there is the concept of versions has gone with CC, so to then do CC2/CCC would upset even more people.
I understand that that is what they say, but what's to stop them introducing a CC Extended version, say, into which they put any new features? Remember, the people who would be upset have little alternative, once they are renting, and Adobe assumes that it will have only about half of its current users on rental, so there are no signs that they attach importance to avoiding upsetting people.
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Is this offer on the Adobe site? I can't find it.
The reason it's not on the main Adobe page yet is because it's not yet available for purchase. However, you can read about the announcement here
http://blogs.adobe.com/creativelayer/introducing-the-photoshop-photography-program/
and a FAQ here
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html#pslr-bundle
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The points raised about price guarantees (in particular, the fact that they're not being guaranteed forever in the new plan) are well taken. Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer for you on that. Adobe is basically saying, "We intend to keep the price at 9.99/mo for the foreseeable future, but we're not guaranteeing it'll remain at that price forever." It's the same type of arrangement regarding Lightroom's perpetual license: "We intend to keep offering Lightroom via a perpetual license for the foreseeable future, but we're not guaranteeing it'll remain that way forever."
Speaking from my personal point of view, I really do see both sides of this argument. It's a natural tension, frankly.
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Eric,
Appreciate the clarification.
Victor
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I understand that that is what they say, but what's to stop them introducing a CC Extended version, say, into which they put any new features? Remember, the people who would be upset have little alternative, once they are renting, and Adobe assumes that it will have only about half of its current users on rental, so there are no signs that they attach importance to avoiding upsetting people.
Except extending CC, the whole point of which is to include everything and all updates, would be particularly difficult.
Doing a 2 programmes, 3 programmes, all programmes versions of CC makes more sense though.
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IMHO, I think that the idea of multiple offerings makes the most sense. Adobe could offer 1, 5, 10 and full subscriptions where the user selects what apps/services they want in the package. They had multiple creative suites, so I don't understand why they can't do multiple packages in the cloud.
Jim
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Speaking from my personal point of view, I really do see both sides of this argument. It's a natural tension, frankly.
We appreciate you volunteering to be the pinata.. ;D]
One more thing. With CS3 or better. Are academic versions acceptable?
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Eric Chan / Mike Chambers
I've read this query several times and can't find a definitive reply.
Can you clarify whether a CS3 / CS6 user who transfers to this new CC Ps/Lr/Be bundle RETAINS their old licence to the CS product (and their right to install it on up to 2 machines) or does the upgrade/cross-grade to CC invalidate the old licence ?
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Eric Chan / Mike Chambers
I've read this query several times and can't find a definitive reply.
Can you clarify whether a CS3 / CS6 user who transfers to this new CC Ps/Lr/Be bundle RETAINS their old licence to the CS product (and their right to install it on up to 2 machines) or does the upgrade/cross-grade to CC invalidate the old licence ?
I asked this question on the Adobe chat site today and got this answer. I quote it in full, so you can pick out the relevant bits, but I think the answer is "yes", you keep the old licence:
Simon Garrett: If I ever leave CC, will my existing perpetual licence to Photoshop still work, and will I still be able to activate it?
McNeil: Simon.
McNeil: You can use the CS6 same as before and it will not be affected.
McNeil: If in case you leave the CC in future, you'll not get the same offer however, as long as you like to use the software, the price will not change.
McNeil: It'll be a permanent price for you.
McNeil: Once you stop it, the price will be regenerated and changed to higher price.
McNeil: Regarding your CS6, it will not be affected.
McNeil: So, it is applicable to use same as how you've it .
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Thanks for the input, Simon.
Yes, it would appear that your old CS3/6 licence remains valid.
Would still be good if either Eric or Mike could confirm this in an unambiguous statement.
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I asked this question on the Adobe chat site today and got this answer. I quote it in full, so you can pick out the relevant bits, but I think the answer is "yes", you keep the old licence:
Simon Garrett: If I ever leave CC, will my existing perpetual licence to Photoshop still work, and will I still be able to activate it?
McNeil: Simon.
McNeil: You can use the CS6 same as before and it will not be affected.
McNeil: If in case you leave the CC in future, you'll not get the same offer however, as long as you like to use the software, the price will not change.
McNeil: It'll be a permanent price for you.
McNeil: Once you stop it, the price will be regenerated and changed to higher price.
McNeil: Regarding your CS6, it will not be affected.
McNeil: So, it is applicable to use same as how you've it .
Is McNeil someone who works for Adobe? He is saying that the initial price won't ever change. You buy in for 10 a month and so long as you don't stop the subscription it will never go up. I wonder if someone can confirm. Eric? Mike?
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The points raised about price guarantees (in particular, the fact that they're not being guaranteed forever in the new plan) are well taken. Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer for you on that. Adobe is basically saying, "We intend to keep the price at 9.99/mo for the foreseeable future, but we're not guaranteeing it'll remain at that price forever." It's the same type of arrangement regarding Lightroom's perpetual license: "We intend to keep offering Lightroom via a perpetual license for the foreseeable future, but we're not guaranteeing it'll remain that way forever."
Speaking from my personal point of view, I really do see both sides of this argument. It's a natural tension, frankly.
Thanks Eric. That is clear. There is, however, a basic difference between the PS and LR arrangements in that if I have LR on a perpetual license I can continue to use it without paying extra, even if terms for future purchasers are changed; with PS rental if the price goes up and I don't want to pay the extra, I am high and dry.
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Eric Chan / Mike Chambers
I've read this query several times and can't find a definitive reply.
Can you clarify whether a CS3 / CS6 user who transfers to this new CC Ps/Lr/Be bundle RETAINS their old licence to the CS product (and their right to install it on up to 2 machines) or does the upgrade/cross-grade to CC invalidate the old licence ?
why do you want to bug a technical specialist (Eric) w/ such questions - his time better spent in technical topics !
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Eric Chan / Mike Chambers
I've read this query several times and can't find a definitive reply.
Can you clarify whether a CS3 / CS6 user who transfers to this new CC Ps/Lr/Be bundle RETAINS their old licence to the CS product (and their right to install it on up to 2 machines) or does the upgrade/cross-grade to CC invalidate the old licence ?
It doesn't affect your old perpetual license. You could continue to use it, even if you stopped your CC membership.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
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Is McNeil someone who works for Adobe? He is saying that the initial price won't ever change. You buy in for 10 a month and so long as you don't stop the subscription it will never go up. I wonder if someone can confirm. Eric? Mike?
This was a transcript from a chat session with customer service on the Adobe web site, so I think we can say with some certainty that McNeil works for Adobe (or speaks with their authority).
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This was a transcript from a chat session with customer service on the Adobe web site, so I think we can say with some certainty that McNeil works for Adobe (or speaks with their authority).
Hi Simon, thanks...
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A step in the right direction (the upgrade from CS3) but otherwise not much changed for those of us who do not use/like LR.
Jack
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This was a transcript from a chat session with customer service on the Adobe web site, so I think we can say with some certainty that McNeil works for Adobe (or speaks with their authority).
I would be very surprised if "McNeil" was truly an Adobe employee. In fact I would be very surprised if he has ever met an actual Adobe employee face-to-face. More likely he is a droid employed by a call-centre company contracted to Adobe to provide customer support. He likely has a script he must follow else he lose his job and he turns to a predetermined response based on keywords embedded in the contact's question. If the question hasn't already had a predetermined response programmed into the script, he would be powerless to do anything at all and wouldn't even know who to call to begin researching an answer.
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Thanks Eric. That is clear. There is, however, a basic difference between the PS and LR arrangements in that if I have LR on a perpetual license I can continue to use it without paying extra, even if terms for future purchasers are changed; with PS rental if the price goes up and I don't want to pay the extra, I am high and dry.
That is correct. That is the fundamental shift with the subscription model and I recognize that many users don't like that (i.e., the software stops working should you choose to end your subscription). Unfortunately it doesn't look like I'll be able to do anything about that.
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I'm guessing quite a few people will love the new price, but also a lot of people who are probably being specifically targeted by this offer may have done what you did and recently bought CS6/LR5 and are probably not inclined to also subscribe to CC in the next few months.
true and yes tough on them, mostly because they chose to wait 15 months up upgrade to CS6 ( the LR upgrade doesn't take as big of a bite out of the budget). Don't misinterpret me please, I'm not criticizing them for this, I think just about everyone has been burned buying something not realizing a couple of weeks later something new and better or the same and cheaper is coming. So buying CS 6 not knowing a better path that makes CC viable was coming falls in that category.
but agreed, wonder if they've considered some policy based on a recent purchase like this. I do believe they are still struggling with the challenges of making the new model work yet remain profitable for many types of users ... education is one. I was listening to a guy who is over the computer lab at a high school, about 100 machines, and currently there isn't an economically viable path for them to maintain the CC applications on all their machines. they have an educator/teacher model, but that really doesn't fit a school computer lab.
It's a work in progress, hopefully they can adapt to situations.
Personally I've been on CC for about a year at the 29.95 price and have been pretty happy, I get a year free because of PS world, and I just talked to adobe reps about when the year is up because of the PS world deal i can still downgrade to the PS/LR bundle at 9.95. I was afraid I would have to lose the free year so I could do that before dec 31st, but they had already thought of that issue.
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Wayne,
My 29.99 rate just ended last month and it went up to 49.99. I wonder if I could downgrade to the 9.99 deal when they release it? I really do not need anything else but LR & PS.
Stu
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My price went up to the 49.95 because my year trial ended. After the year I'm receiving from attending photoshop world next september, I was told I could downgrade to the 9.95 price - I don't have to lose the free year to sign up for the 9.95 before the dec 31st deadline. Sounds like those who are on the full CC price right now would have that option. You may have to call, but you may just need to sign up when the 9.95 price is released and the process will take care of it.
If I see the CC specialist in the Adobe booth tomorrow I'll try and ask him.
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If I see the CC specialist in the Adobe booth tomorrow I'll try and ask him.
Thanks Wayne for the info.
Would be great if you happen to see one of the CC specialists.
Have good time at the Photoshop World.
Stu
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For Eric and Mike and all other Adobe employees following this thread:
Yup, I'd like to take Adobe up on that offer for PS and LR bundled for $120 per year... Oh wait, I don't own a standalone version of PS only, so I'm apparently not eligible. I've been a better Adobe customer than that over the years. I bought CS1, then upgraded to CS3,CS5, and finally to CS6. I'm a photographer, but I also rely on Indesign and Acrobat occasionally, so in the past buying CS upgrades rather than standalone versions of PS, ID, and Acrobat Pro was what worked for me.
Staying with the full CC approach doesn't work for me any longer because Adobe's new pricing structure for the full CC subscription effectively doubles my costs if I move to CC from CS6. I can't justify that cost increase, so with some regret I will be weaning myself from ID and Acrobat Pro over the next year or so. PS and LR are the only Adobe software I anticipate using once CS6 gets too long in the tooth to run on newer computers. Bottom line: for some photographers the new LR+PS offer may be attractively priced and a nice gesture by Adobe to silence the furor in the photography community, but for other customers like me, it's just rubbing more salt into the wound.
I hope Adobe management gets this whole subscription pricing model worked out some time in the near future so that it doesn't keep disenfranchising many of it's existing customers. Right now, IMHO, it's still a mess.
regards,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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It seems the new Photographer's plan is now listed on the UK site as - Creative Cloud plan for Photoshop customers £8.78 a month incl. Lightroom.
Also the plan for Creative Cloud single-app membership for Photoshop seems to have been removed.
So I checked my plan which was for the single-app and it has been changed to "Photoshop Photography Program (For CS3+ customers)" so I am assuming this means I have been moved, I don't need to do anything and it will remain £8.78 a month next year?
But the plan I am now on isn't listed as one of the available plans!
All very confusing as I think my plan has changed (for the better) but I am not sure and had nothing from Adobe telling me they changed my plan.
Happy with the subscription model but confused :-(
Phil
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OK further confusion on this :-(
Thought I would check that LR 5 was on my plan so I could get the update through CC, but it isn't listed in the Creative Cloud app. So, off to the Adobe site and the "Creative Cloud plan for Photoshop customers £8.78 a month incl. Lightroom" has been removed as a listed plan.
So off to My Adobe account to check my subscription and it is still listed as "Photoshop Photography Program (For CS3+ customers)" so it hasn't changed back - but I have no idea of what is included with this plan as it seems LR isn't.
So, I expect this is some internal communication muck up and I expect I need to give the nice customer services people a call and find out what is happening. Unless anyone knows what is going on?
Phil
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OK further confusion on this :-(
Thought I would check that LR 5 was on my plan so I could get the update through CC, but it isn't listed in the Creative Cloud app. So, off to the Adobe site and the "Creative Cloud plan for Photoshop customers £8.78 a month incl. Lightroom" has been removed as a listed plan.
So off to My Adobe account to check my subscription and it is still listed as "Photoshop Photography Program (For CS3+ customers)" so it hasn't changed back - but I have no idea of what is included with this plan as it seems LR isn't.
So, I expect this is some internal communication muck up and I expect I need to give the nice customer services people a call and find out what is happening. Unless anyone knows what is going on?
Phil
We are in the process of rolling things out, so you might see some odd stuff for a bit. We will have an announcement once things are completed (very soon).
Sorry about any confusion.
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
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Thanks Mike - I am sure it is just gremlins.
Chatting to support at the moment via the Chat Window - and I am sure this is just some AI response system; the answers seem very general and not really relating to the questions I am asking - getting no where quick :-)
Phil
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The points raised about price guarantees (in particular, the fact that they're not being guaranteed forever in the new plan) are well taken. Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer for you on that. Adobe is basically saying, "We intend to keep the price at 9.99/mo for the foreseeable future, but we're not guaranteeing it'll remain at that price forever."
So - maybe I'm not too smart but I don't understand - what is the incentive to subscribe before 31 Dec, if the price will be kept the same after that? And if the plan is to raise the price on Jan 1 2014, then having subscribed at 9.99 for one year, I will be stiffed for the new price in year 2. Something doesn't add up :-(
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I think that what they are saying is the if you sign up before Dec, they will let you in for $10, which they have no present plans to change, for people signed up before Dec.
After Dec, anything could happen, but the implication seems to be that new subscribers will go back to $20 or whatever the price was before all these introductory offers came along (perhaps with a 50% teaser discount for the first year only). Those on the $10 plan will be entitled to remain on the $10 plan unless Adobe changes its mind at some future point.
Just like the banking, cable, or telecoms industries, the incentive for Adobe is to maximise the number of subscribers by giving new subscribers low introductory entry rates while denying those rates to existing subscribers. So you'll get a good rate on your savings account for a year, after which it will plummet. If you don't put your money into a new account, as many people won't be bothered to do, you'll lose out -- inertia selling.
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I think (only my thinking) on this is that prior to end of the year, people will get it for $9.99 a month. Afterwards it will be a higher plan price, say $20 as JRP suggests (just a guess). What then may happen is say Adobe decide to increase the cost - say due to inflation, different profit targets or whatever - by say 2%, the $9.99 people will get a 2% lift on their $9.99 price where the $20 people will get a 2% lift on their $20.
So the price wont stay at $9.99 but the upgraders will keep their benefit from upgrading. So the price remains the same for them and not a move to the full price as the plans before were doing.
But this is just my thoughts on how it might be - so may be way out of what really happens :-)
Anyway, I now seem to be on the new plan and I managed to get my LR 5.2 downloaded last night, so my single-app plan has been upgraded automatically.
Phil
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I freely confess I need to carefully watch my costs and overhead, when the subscription model was first rolled out I could not justify it unless economical environment in the arts in my community begins to change. We do hope, absorbing things like this used to be a no brainer. Now any updating of anything here is a very considered decision.
This new price option is something viable for me.. but now the surrounding questions arise- will the regularly evolving and updating software I am subscribing to require regular or unpredictable OS and therefore possible hardware upgrades as well? The last several years with the Mac and all software involved has not been terribly fun... Quickbooks.. to name just one example...
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will the regularly evolving and updating software I am subscribing to require regular or unpredictable OS and therefore possible hardware upgrades as well?
Exactly. You give up control and they get a steady, predictable source of revenue. It may work out very well for you, it may not.
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well I wasn't complaining as much as pondering out loud.. surely being forced into unpredicted OS and/or hardware upgrades is an issue. So I'm wondering about the true danger of that, and what options may exist. For example- keep the subscription open but don't go to the latest version until ready, if possible? Etc..
Tyler
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well I wasn't complaining as much as pondering out loud.. surely being forced into unpredicted OS and/or hardware upgrades is an issue. So I'm wondering about the true danger of that, and what options may exist. For example- keep the subscription open but don't go to the latest version until ready, if possible? Etc..
Tyler
Supposedly you don't have to install the updates as they come out, so you won't be pushed into upgrading your computer or your OS. You can stay with what works with your current hardware. Of course, you still have to pay them every month whether you accept the updates or not.