Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Photopro888 on July 30, 2013, 06:02:59 pm
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Anyone using this pair of pliers to stretch canvas… does it really help with speed and less strain on your hand, also is it worth the cost?
Link: http://breathingcolor.com/action/bc_shop/226/
Thanks for any info!
-Darren
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I've been using Holbien stretcher pliers for years - have rubber grips - really great. Likely not as expensive either. http://www.amazon.com/Holbein-Pro-Stretching-Pliers/dp/B005GKZ39M
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Well worth the cost. I wrote a review about these pliers a while back whic you can find here.
http://photosofarkansas.com/category/reviews-of-equipment/printing-framing/ (http://photosofarkansas.com/category/reviews-of-equipment/printing-framing/)
They are a great design and will assist in making a great stretch.
Paul Caldwell
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Definitely +1 for the stretch relief!
Cheers!
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I can back everything that Paul says about the StretchRelief pliers as well. Strain on the hand is eliminated (at least it was for me). The only thing is that you need 1/2" to 1" more canvas than with regular pliers to 'get a grip'.. but once you do, it's perfect.
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I can back everything that Paul says about the StretchRelief pliers as well. Strain on the hand is eliminated (at least it was for me). The only thing is that you need 1/2" to 1" more canvas than with regular pliers to 'get a grip'.. but once you do, it's perfect.
I use smaller bars (about 7/8" deep) - and 2" borders. Is this enough to use those pliers? How much is enough?
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Ok, so I guess I've got the opposing view. The StretchRelief pliers are modified visegrips which require two hands to operate (watch the video.) At $200 bucks a piece I can buy TEN of these (http://www.dickblick.com/items/08921-1001/?clickTracking=true&wmcp=google&wmcid=items&wmckw=08921-1001&CAWELAID=520010530000048005&gclid=COHwlLfv2rgCFQee4AoddDoAJw) which only require one hand to operate. I can hold the pliers in one hand and the stapler in the other to complete the stretching faster than if using the StretchRelief product. If you are experiencing hand fatigue from your stretching pliers you should examine your technique. I ALLOW the canvas to slip in the pliers' jaws in order to control proper tension. - Jim
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I have only ever used one hand - usually two fingers, when using the StretchRelief. I have tried those other pliers and it's because they slip that causes the hand fatigue. You have to hold them tighter. The SR may only be a glorified vice-grips... but they do work beautifully, with only two fingers. Maybe if I was younger it wouldn't matter as much, but I'm afraid I'm not. I agree, the $200 seems like a lot, but I will never go back to the other style. For me, the $200 was worth it.
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I use smaller bars (about 7/8" deep) - and 2" borders. Is this enough to use those pliers? How much is enough?
Hard to tell without actually trying them on the stretcher bar. If I'm stretching a 20x30, I will print it about 26x36 so have 3" of canvas to work with. If it's a particularly deep stretcher, I'll add another 1/2" to the 3, so 3-1/2" all around.
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Hard to tell without actually trying them on the stretcher bar. If I'm stretching a 20x30, I will print it about 26x36 so have 3" of canvas to work with. If it's a particularly deep stretcher, I'll add another 1/2" to the 3, so 3-1/2" all around.
Thanks. I only have a 24" printer - so 6 inches reduces my canvas size to 18 - and I like to print 20x30.
So, I'm limited to 2" for that size which means I print 24x34. I need 1" to manage the depth of the bar - which only leaves 1" to wrap. I find it minimal and wonder if those vice grip pliers will grab it. If they weren't $200 - I wouldn't hesitate.
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Actually once you set the stretchrelief pliers you don't need any hands. It's obviously a personal preference. But I have used all the other standard types of pliers (fletcher style) and find I get a much better finished product.
Paul Caldwell
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The SR Instructions that came with the pliers state: "The amount of canvas that you need extending beyond the inside of the stretcher bar is 3/4". For example: if you are stretching on a standard 3/4" thick stretcher bar, you add 3/4" plus the width of the bar which is typically 1.5". To this amount you would add 3/4" which would give you a total of 3". Using this formula for gallery wrapping an 18x24" frame, you would need a canvas size of 24x30 inches."
So, in your instance, it's going to be tight and they may not work for you. A shame because they really are nice to work with. I've adjusted all my sizes to accommodate the extra canvas needed. I find my clients are not too concerned about the 'inches' and purchase what they see hanging on the walls - as in - I'd like it THAT size". 18x27 or 20x30 - close enough, unless you're selling square inches of canvas rather than an "image". ;)
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This afternoon I tried hand stretching a 50x30" giclee canvas. Didn't come out so well. I have vertical ripples (up and down on the 30" height).
[Snip] I use Breathing Color's "Stretch Relief" plyers, although I believe they also go by the name "Pitbull".
Any ideas on how I can improve on this?
Mike, based on this quote from another thread it seeed that those pliers weren't doing you any favors. The reason is lack of control. With the other pliers you can coax the "ripples" from the center to the corners whereas using the StretchRelief pliers you lose out on that type of control due to the length of the jaw and the unforgiving teeth. I won't even mention speed...
Bottom line: If your customers/clients are satisfied with your product and you are happy with your pliers/technique, you've achieved success! - Jim
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However, it wasn't the fault of the pliers at all. There wasn't any bracing on the stretcher so when I was stretching the middle of the 'frame' was flexing and causing the ripples. As soon as I added a brace to the stretcher frame, it worked flawlessly.
But you are correct... if it ain't broke, don't fix it! A lot of it has to do with how you've been trained too. I know someone that hand-stretches 'without' pliers - and their canvases are perfect. I just finished a small 16x24 with the SR's and it's also perfect. C'est la vie!
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Sorry I should have read the FAQ before posting. I already have stock of 20x30 bars so throwing out the bars to spend $200 for pliers isn't something I can justify and while it is nice to have a range of sizes - 20" is the widest I can print on canvas with this printer - and not something I want to give up. I do have regular pliers and actually found them difficult to work with and was hand stretching - but my canvases are not "drum tight" - hence the inquiry.
Thanks
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Interesting thread. I had a 24" printer and ultimately found the size constraints too limiting when gallery wrapping my pieces, especially when using the thicker bars. When printing on paper I could get pretty large finished pieces with the 24 in printer but that included the mounting and framing in the overall final size. When I tried gallery wrapping, I wasn't satisfied with the final size of the pieces. Because of the extra trim needed to grip with pliers and the amount wrapped around the edges, the pieces all just ended up too small for me. So I took the plunge and bought a 44 inch printer. Can't be happier. Even with the extra trim and edge wrap limitations, the gallery wraps are "satisfyingly" large. BTW, I do use the stretch relief and find them wonderful to work with. I agree with Mike and Paul.
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I hear ya Bullfrog. Of course I'd rather get a full 20x30 out of a 24 inch roll, but as noted above, that's one reason I went with the 44 inch as well. You could still print the 20x30 and use the SR's on the long ends to get that extra grip/pull to tighten up the canvas I suppose. If only they had made these printers one inch wider eh!! ;)
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Yes, its a conspiracy I'm sure. Anyway, I'm not above taking charity so if anyone wants to donate a new 44" printer - pm me
;)
Otherwise, buying a giant printer ONLY because I need it to use special pliers that (lets be honest here) are clearly overpriced vice grips so that I can increase my borders which results in my throwing away MORE ink and paper during production seems...well - (searching brain for politically correct term)
Never mind.
Cheers
8)
PS: I think if it comes to that, I will outsource.
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That thought crossed my mind as well... but I'm just too stubborn to give in. :)
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Hi bullfrog,
I think you mentioned that you used the same stretcher bars as I do (from upper canada stretchers). If that's the case, you should have absolutely no problem getting the canvases drum tight using the keys. I've even hand tightened some large canvases by hand and then used the keys to get the canvas drum tight.
The StretchRelief pliers are definitely expensive. However, considering the time it would take to build something similar (enhancing a standard set of vice grips) would cost me more (in time and close enough to the cost) to make them. In my opinion these really are much better than vice grips. The surface area of the plate, the grid of spike grips, etc make stretching canvas very efficient and consistent.
Cheers!
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Jason... when using UC stretchers and the keys, how much canvas 'moves'. In other words, if I have an image with something like mirrored edges and use the keys to tighten the stretch, is the edge going to wrap around to the sides? (sorry to hijack the thread Darren but been meaning to ask this about using keys - my apologies).
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Jason... when using UC stretchers and the keys, how much canvas 'moves'. In other words, if I have an image with something like mirrored edges and use the keys to tighten the stretch, is the edge going to wrap around to the sides? (sorry to hijack the thread Darren but been meaning to ask this about using keys - my apologies).
Hi Mike,
It depends a bit on the canvas (I've been using Hahnemuhle Daguerre since I've been using the UC stretchers). However, as long as you tap the keys evenly all around, it's going to look pretty much the same. If the canvas is stretched about 1mm each way (depending on how many key "taps" you do), that's barely going to move the canvas and will make it drum tight. The wrapped "seam" will still be on the rounded corner of the stretcher. I typically start with 3 light taps for each key. Even when I get the canvas drum tight without the keys (using StretchRelief), I still tap the keys in at least one "tap" and put a dab of glue just to keep them there should the canvas need to be tightened in the future depending on how much the humidity shifts where the print will be hanging.
Cheers!
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Hi bullfrog,
I think you mentioned that you used the same stretcher bars as I do (from upper canada stretchers). If that's the case, you should have absolutely no problem getting the canvases drum tight using the keys. I've even hand tightened some large canvases by hand and then used the keys to get the canvas drum tight.
The StretchRelief pliers are definitely expensive. However, considering the time it would take to build something similar (enhancing a standard set of vice grips) would cost me more (in time and close enough to the cost) to make them. In my opinion these really are much better than vice grips. The surface area of the plate, the grid of spike grips, etc make stretching canvas very efficient and consistent.
Cheers!
Hi
Yes, I use the same bars. I think it could certainly be technique - but I'm thinking it has more to do with the varnish I use which IF I apply more than 2 coats - makes the canvas very thick and more difficult to tension.
The point raised in this thread about rippling therefore concerns me. I'm working with a different substrate - and putting all else aside, its a concern that I believe would be magnified when using my varnished canvas.
On keys, I have (sadly) had the experience of tapping a key into the bar to tighten a wrapped canvas only to find the key perforate the canvas - literally go through the other side. This has been a very frustrating situation - and reading their UCart website - it seems some keys need to be adjusted BEFORE you bang them in (ie ensure they are fat enough wedge so that the point of the key cannot slip through).
SO - since I managed to do that on TWO canvases (screaming could be heard within a 10 km radius) - my workflow is like this:
1. Assemble bars
2. Measure diam both ways to ensure they match within 1/8 of inch
3. STAPLE corners to prevent the bars from shifting when I stretch and to keep them square
4. Add keys to each corner (tap in enough to keep them there)
5 Wrap canvas (by hand)
6. Cut off excess canvas on corners as per the video I posted the other day (Mike saw it)
6. Use hair blow dryer to heat up corners of canvas (about 10 seconds on high)
7. After making the sign of the cross and 10 hail Mary's wrap the *&@ corners.
What I should do is add glue to keys as you do to keep them there.
It works. I have to discipline myself to make each corner a mirror image - in other words, the overlap should be on the top of the canvas, not the sides. I'm left handed so its something I have to practice and concentrate to ensure each corner is wrapped correctly as it is hard to fix.
As far as the pliers - they are overpriced but that was not the point - the point was - I'm not reducing my image size to 18" (vs 20) to allow 3 " on each side which is plier requirement and/or I'm not ditching my 24" printer (which already is underused and has a negative ROI) in order to spend another $5000 to buy a NEW printer just so that I can use these pliers.
When I checked websites on machine wrapping - they stipulate they need even LESS salvage than I currently have (if my memory is correct) which means I can get a wider bar (1 1/2") with 2" borders. THIS is appealing to me and something I want to test (ie outsource and have someone wrap one for me)
Bottom line: Glad it works for you and again, any donations towards a new 44" printer are welcome and appreciated
;D.
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I may have to try the UC stretchers. I get mine pre-made from my frame supplier, at a reasonable price, but they are not keyed. If the stretching machines need even less canvas then i look forward to the day my volume increases enough to justify one of those. Sorry Bullfrog, but I can't swing a donation right now... just ordered a couple of 700ml ink cartridges and I'm broke! ;)
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I may have to try the UC stretchers. I get mine pre-made from my frame supplier, at a reasonable price, but they are not keyed. If the stretching machines need even less canvas then i look forward to the day my volume increases enough to justify one of those.
I like the supplier -and the bars are good quality.
In terms of cost - I'm investigating outsourcing to compare the relative cost . LIke everything volume makes for economies of scale so what works for one may not financial sense for another. The issue of convenience does arise - its easier to do it yourself on your own schedule.
Good luck.
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I may have to try the UC stretchers. I get mine pre-made from my frame supplier, at a reasonable price, but they are not keyed. If the stretching machines need even less canvas then i look forward to the day my volume increases enough to justify one of those. Sorry Bullfrog, but I can't swing a donation right now... just ordered a couple of 700ml ink cartridges and I'm broke! ;)
Hey Mike,
I totally hear ya' on the 700ml cartridges.. It would be great sometimes if my 11880 would allow me to take smaller cartridges sometimes.. Especially the colours that I don't go through that fast! :)
Cheers!
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I bought these stretching pliers from the main guy who made them before they went to BC and I couldn't be happier. Drum tight stretches every single time. I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have these.
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Yes, its a conspiracy I'm sure. Anyway, I'm not above taking charity so if anyone wants to donate a new 44" printer - pm me
;)
Otherwise, buying a giant printer ONLY because I need it to use special pliers that (lets be honest here) are clearly overpriced vice grips so that I can increase my borders which results in my throwing away MORE ink and paper during production seems...well - (searching brain for politically correct term)
Never mind.
Cheers
8)
PS: I think if it comes to that, I will outsource.
Not sure if getting a 44" printer has much to do with just creating a little more edge to grip with pliers.
It has everything to do with offering larger prints and wraps.
I started with the Epson 7900 and in a month saw the limitations with the small sizes so I bought the 9900.
Now approximately 75% of my print and mount sales could not be accomplished with the smaller 7900.
My shop is not a production shop by any means. When I get the caller that says my regular printer can only do gallery wraps to 19 x 30 and I want 24 x 36
I am ready.
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Thanks to everyone for providing lots of great info here! I think I will be ordering the StretchRelief soon… unfortunately I have a bunch of canvas prints all coating and ready to go that most likely don’t have enough extra canvas for the pliers to grip. Oh well, I will have to start printing with the extra canvas to work with the StratchRelief.
Thanks again!
-Darren
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I use 2" mirror edge for the wrap and leave 2" of slack on each side for the pliers. So if I am printing a 16x20, with mirror edges it becomes 20x24. Then the printing measurements for the print is 44" wide by 28" tall. The only downfall with using the pliers is not being able to print two prints side by side to save canvas. There's just not enough extra room around the both prints. Unless of course you're printing two 11x14's or 12x16's
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I am ready.
Good for you!
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Not sure if getting a 44" printer has much to do with just creating a little more edge to grip with pliers.
It has everything to do with offering larger prints and wraps.
I started with the Epson 7900 and in a month saw the limitations with the small sizes so I bought the 9900.
Now approximately 75% of my print and mount sales could not be accomplished with the smaller 7900.
My shop is not a production shop by any means. When I get the caller that says my regular printer can only do gallery wraps to 19 x 30 and I want 24 x 36
I am ready.
Hi Dan,
I totally agree with your comment. I also believe that should one sell some large pieces of their art or some large canvases for others the cost of the printer can be recouped relatively quickly. When I made my first large commercial art sale they wanted 13 prints, 5 of them 56x72". The cost of a pro lab doing this almost paid for at least half of my 11880. So I definitely think it's worth stretching for the costs of at least a 44" printer if printing canvas (or even fine art paper) is something that one plans on providing for more than just personal printing.
Cheers!