Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: francois on July 11, 2013, 07:00:13 am
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This is a follow-up post to Ilford Imaging financial struggle (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=79937.0).
Ilford has now less than four weeks (mid-August) to find a company to bail them out.
Here's the Google translated article: here (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bilan.ch%2Fentreprises%2Filford-moins-dun-mois-pour-se-trouver-un-repreneur%3Fnopaging%3D1&act=url) and the original french article: here (http://www.bilan.ch/entreprises/ilford-moins-dun-mois-pour-se-trouver-un-repreneur?nopaging=1).
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Let's hope they manage. It would be unfortunate to see them disappear.
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I agree. It's very sad.
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Let's hope they manage. It would be unfortunate to see them disappear.
Me too! Unions are very pessimistic about finding a good Samaritan in such a short time… If bankruptcy is declared by a local judge then they can seek a stay that would give them additional time. Fingers crossed!
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Under Swiss law, do they need to apply for bankruptcy protection before a judge would grant it? If so, have they done so? It would seem a logical step, unless they are under negotiations with some group now that could make it preferable to remain non-bankrupt pending any outcome.
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Under Swiss law, do they need to apply for bankruptcy protection before a judge would grant it? If so, have they done so? It would seem a logical step, unless they are under negotiations with some group now that could make it preferable to remain non-bankrupt pending any outcome.
Mark,
I'm not a lawyer and the last time I sat at the Law dept. was almost 30 years ago and laws might have changed.
The official name in french is Sursis concordataire. You can read a bit more here (http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_general/3355408-sursis_concordataire.html).
Edit: in german the name is Nachlassstundung.
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Francois, based on the information in the link you provided, this "sursis" is akin to a receivership. It is the stage before bankruptcy. I wonder whether they have engaged this procedure yet.
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Francois, based on the information in the link you provided, this "sursis" is akin to a receivership. It is the stage before bankruptcy. I wonder whether they have engaged this procedure yet.
No, this procedure hasn't been engaged yet. They must wait until mid-August, then it's either bankruptcy or sursis. When a company is engaged in such a procedure, it must be mentioned in the official commerce registry. As of today, no mention of sursis.
If I remember correctly, the aim of sursis is to pay creditors (partially or fully) and/or try to have some depts dropped or reduced.
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If I remember correctly, the aim of sursis is to pay creditors (partially or fully) and/or try to have some depts dropped or reduced.
Yes, in general a "work-out" to try to get them back up and running so that bankruptcy protection can be avoided. Actually, in this case a period of "sursis" could be good news, because it means there could be some hope.
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Yes, in general a "work-out" to try to get them back up and running so that bankruptcy protection can be avoided. Actually, in this case a period of "sursis" could be good news, because it means there could be some hope.
I just checked and the current law about protection is much more complex than before. But the only interesting part is that a sursis if accepted will give a company between four and six months of "fresh air".
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Do you know whether they are still producing and/or shipping paper?
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Do you know whether they are still producing and/or shipping paper?
Last week, I read that employees were still at work in the factory but news are sparse.
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dang!
few of my clients use this paper exclusively.
i think i better pay more attention on this news because if they were down,
i better stock them up right away
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Which specific paper are you referring to? If Gold Fibre Silk, Canson Baryta Photographique is virtually identical, so equivalent product will likely be available; however, based on previous pricing experience here in Toronto, Ilford has been the competition keeping the prices for both *quite reasonable*. Without them, I expect the Canson product to become costlier.
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They are still working, and let´s see what the law will say - if they are worth to go on or not.
Canson is near by the Ilford products, but there are some more very similar products in Germany.
But before we swing out, let´s see what happens with the Ilford production.
regards
Oliver
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The demise of Ilford doesn't necessarily mean the demise of Ilford paper. The patents, paper mills and trademarks all have significant value, and whoever ends up with them is likely to keep producing them.
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Correct, but you know that the ground and the buildings are not owend by the Ilford Imaging Switzerland GmbH?
The buildings and the ground are in other hands (Ilford AG ?) after the last financial struggle some years ago.
The Ilford production is just a tenant afaik.
Let´s see what happend.
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Correct, but you know that the ground and the buildings are not owend by the Ilford Imaging Switzerland GmbH?
The buildings and the ground are in other hands (Ilford AG ?) after the last financial struggle some years ago.
The Ilford production is just a tenant afaik.
Let´s see what happend.
Didn't know that...
I guess they'll probably outsource production to China and sell the product to gullible chumps for a few years, before tests reveal that poor-quality, acidic wood pulp is being passed off as '100% acid-free cotton rag', along with a slew of problems with inconsistent quality control, bubbled or flaking coatings and fast-fading prints. Then they'll either fold, or just become another brand of cheap office paper.
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Correct, but you know that the ground and the buildings are not owend by the Ilford Imaging Switzerland GmbH?
The buildings and the ground are in other hands (Ilford AG ?) after the last financial struggle some years ago.
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Indeed, here's the list of Ilford companies:
http://zefix.ch/zfx-cgi/hrform.cgi/hraPage?alle_eintr=on&pers_sort=original&pers_num=0&language=4&col_width=366&amt=007
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Yes, and the Head - Ilford Group AG - was the company who bought Tecco and the other colormanagement companies some weeks ago.
The fincanial truble is only for the production part in Marly - one part of the Ilford AG, named Ilford Imaging Switzerland GmbH.
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If you read the packaging of GFS, you will see that the paper is said to be made in Germany. You will also see that the trademark is owned by Ilford Imaging Switzerland GmBH - the GmBH being German for "limited liability company", or in our jurisprudence, a " Co.Ltd.". So the IP is owned by the company in trouble, and would, I expect, form part of the asset base up for grabs in a receivership situation. I think the real questions of interest are (1) how they got themselves into this predicament (was it unwise acquisitions or competitive problems in the rather crowded paper market) and depending on the answers to that, (2) how they will get themselves out of it - can they emerge from a receivership restructured and continuing as a going concern, or will they be sold in bankruptcy to the highest bidder, or will it all simply disappear? We just don't know any of that, so I'm doing the defensive thing of stocking-up to carry me over for a longish period of time, until the dust settles. I really like this paper, know it, have confidence in it and would like to continue using it.
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you will see that the paper is said to be made in Germany. You will also see that the trademark is owned by Ilford Imaging Switzerland GmBH - the GmBH being German for "limited liability company", or in our jurisprudence, a " Co.Ltd.". So the IP is owned by the company in trouble
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This is correct, Mark…
The instruction papers that come in a GFS paper box say "Printed in Switzerland" so conditioning and/or packaging are probably made in Switzerland and manufacturing in Germany.
In an interview (early July), the director of Ilford Imaging GmBH was quite clear that Ilford Imaging GmBH was in trouble and made no reference to the other Ilford companies.
Let's waiting until mid-August and then see what happens. I'll also stock up GFS, just in case.
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PM sent.
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Which specific paper are you referring to? If Gold Fibre Silk, Canson Baryta Photographique is virtually identical, so equivalent product will likely be available; however, based on previous pricing experience here in Toronto, Ilford has been the competition keeping the prices for both *quite reasonable*. Without them, I expect the Canson product to become costlier.
I'm in China, it is hard to get Canson paper since they don't really have a dealer, everything is direct sale and they don't really put too much attention in digital printing market. Rather than that, they put most of their resources in fine art and matte board market.
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Does anyone know if this situation with Ilford Imaging in Switzerland has any effect or connection with the analogue silver papers and films from Ilford in England.
In other words do people need to think about stocking up on Ilford film? Or or they totally unrelated companies?
john
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From what I read, unrelated companies. The British operation is owned by Harman Technology LLC, whereas Ilford Imaging Switzerland GmBH was owned by Paradigm Global Partners LLC. Nothing I've seen from the Swiss press indicates that the British operation is affected by the Paradigm decision.