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Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: andre b on May 07, 2013, 09:26:11 pm

Title: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: andre b on May 07, 2013, 09:26:11 pm: Hi all I've been trying to figure out how to get decent dof from ground level shooting wildlife, any advice from an experience photographer would help
I shoot with a 300mm f4 af-s with 1.4 tc since a couple months.. , I most of the times shoot at f5.6 to get faster shutter speed low iso and to isolate my subject better or keep distracting background off,
But this winter when I was shooting otters coming out of holes on the ice I've noticed that at f/5.6 when I had the otter eyes perfectly in focus sometimes the nose wasnt or is legs and when I had is legs and nose in focus the eyes werent... I know that telephoto have a very shallow depth of field but thats shallower than shallower .
I've tried to correct myself since then but even when I carnk my fstops to 8 or 11... it doesnt do much difference..
This afternoon I was shooting loons from ground level when i've noticed than both loons were going to be close together ( ive crank up my iso ) and put my f/stops to f/11 to make sure the two were going to be in focus ....
both loons got practicaly beek to beek (forming a hearth) ...but one loon head was a couple inches further (maybe 2 or 3 max ) from the other one.
Well I screwd up again.... one loon ( the one closer (the one that I've focused on )) was perfectly sharp while the other wasnt in perfect focus.
and in extra I got the distracting background more visible :(
I should have just let it at f5.6

Its been a recurring theme for me when there is many animals and I try to get them all or isolate 2 in focus !!

I've tried not to crank it to f16 or f22 since people say it cause diffraction especially since I have a crop sensor and try not to boost my iso more than 1000.
And I think it wouldnt do much since (at ground level) changing from f 5.6 to f11 dont do much difference ( maybe an inch)

People tell me that teleconverter makes that problem (really shallow dof) worst
but I dont have the money to buy a 500mm or more

somebody has a tip ? it would be really appreciated
I love shooting wildlife but not being able to shoot more than one subject at a time even when they are almost exactly at the same distance from me is such a let down ....

ther must be a way to makes things better ???... how do you guys cope with that I need help from experienced photographer I've read many many , articles on dof and telephoto ... but none was adressing THIS particular problem!
thank you very much
thank you
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: elf on May 07, 2013, 10:18:31 pm: Sounds like you need a tilt/shift lens :)

p.s. There are quite a few online DOF calculators that will tell you what to expect at any particular aperture and subject distance.
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: fike on May 07, 2013, 10:49:20 pm: I have two comments:
1) welcome to the push-pull of tradeoffs in wildlife photography. The compromises you describe are typical. You have to learn to cope despite these constraints. Further, don't hesitate to shoot high ISO and narrow apertures. On a cropped camera I will go as far as f/11 or even occasionally higher. If your composition demands more depth of field you will need to compromise and accept more diffraction. Don't put artificial constraints on settings you will use. Flog your camera with every setting to find what works.
2) have you checked to ensure your camera's focus is calibrated. You may be back or front focusing slightly and this could complicate your efforts to modulate depth of field.
3) don't get overly fixated on having everything in perfect focus. It can be fine to only have one thing in perfect focus, though it better be the most important thing.

Yes, yes, I know that was three things. Here's a fourth. Great telephoto work frequently demands great gear. I don't frequently fall back on the crutch that more expensive is better, but with wildlife work, there is a price of admission and it is high.
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: LesPalenik on May 07, 2013, 10:57:52 pm: Quote
both loons got practicaly beek to beek (forming a hearth) ...but one loon head was a couple inches further (maybe 2 or 3 max ) from the other one.
Well I screwd up again.... one loon ( the one closer (the one that I've focused on )) was perfectly sharp while the other wasnt in perfect focus.
and in extra I got the distracting background more visible
I've seen the very shallow DOF occasionally also in my photographs. I think, what's happening is that the lens is front focusing, but you still get the front loon in focus. Maybe barely, but just enough. However, the farther loon is already outside of DOF, so it won't be sharp.

Try an experiment with three staggered cans with some text labels. Focus on the middle one, and check the results. There is a good chance that the first two will be in focus and the one in the back is already outside of DOF.
Then focus on the farthest can and repeat the experiment. If you get all three cans or first two in focus, then your lens is front focusing.
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: David Sutton on May 07, 2013, 11:05:54 pm: There's no secret formula. You are balancing shutter speed, f stop and iso.
If you want more DOF you may just need to go to f16 or f22. I find I can recover most of the detail lost due to diffraction with careful sharpening (mild deconvolution followed my usual sharpening routine). Try it for yourself and decide which is worse: some loss of focus or some loss of detail.
Since DOF is greater behind the focus point than in front of it, if you have two subjects one behind the other, you could also try focussing on a point roughly one third into the distance between the two.
I always try to get the subject parallel to the plane of the sensor. Otherwise the images generally get thrown out.
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Tony Jay on May 08, 2013, 04:07:27 am: Andre you been given some pretty sound advice.
It is absolutely a trade-off.
Also stopping down the aperture on super telephoto lenses has rather a minor effect on DOF (depending on distance from the camera to focusing point, of course).
Whether shooting at f-stops of f11 or higher is worthwhile is a horses-for-courses type of judgement - only you know whether the result is worth it given the higher ISO or slower shutter speed required, and, whether the post-processing loop-de-loops subsequently required to deal with noise and diffraction issues (both issues reduce visible detail) are for you or not.
Are good results possible? Yes, Is it easy? No.

In reality I am reasonably sure that most individuals will usually be looking to shoot at maximum aperture most of the time with a high shutter speed and the lowest possible ISO they can get away with.
(It is true that image quality with many late model cameras is extraordinary at rather high ISO's compared with even four years ago, but nothing can fix image blur from too slow a shutter speed.)
Hopefully your camera/lens combination is not front or back focusing because that can be an issue with such narrow DOF as already mentioned.

BTW the DOF is a function of effective focal length, 420mm in your case (300 X 1.4), and, aperture, and the distance from the camera to the focusing point.
(There are many resources on the web that have tables detailing the DOF according to these parameters as well as DOF calculators using the same parameters.)
So, anyone who tells you that the tele-extender is the issue and that you should buy a 500mm f4.0 instead is plain wrong.
The issue with tele-extenders is the loss of a stop of light (f4.0 to f5.6) at maximum aperture for the 1.4 and two stops of light (f4.0 to f6.3) at maximum aperture for the 2.0 tele-extenders.
This can also have ramifications with focusing systems.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: stever on May 08, 2013, 09:44:09 am: you should micro-adjust the combination of lens and extender to make sure the camera is focusing where it's supposed to - the combination of lens and extender may (or may not) significantly back or front focus. maybe anecdotally, my 300 f4 was pretty soft with a 1.4X (i tried a couple copies) - noticeably worse than the 100-400. if you're using a body that doesn't micro-adjust you may be somewhat out of luck.

in general, you are rarely going to get 2 birds in focus, but if the eyes and beak of the nearest bird are in focus then the softness of the second bird is tolerable (but not the other way round) - it's critical to place focus where you want it
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: theguywitha645d on May 08, 2013, 10:20:21 am: Quote from: andre b on May 07, 2013, 09:26:11 pm
I've tried not to crank it to f16 or f22 since people say it cause diffraction especially since I have a crop sensor and try not to boost my iso more than 1000.
And I think it wouldnt do much since (at ground level) changing from f 5.6 to f11 dont do much difference ( maybe an inch)

Why not try f/16 or f/22? Image quality is subjective and always a trade off. I certainly would not base my photography on hearsay. The benefits of the extra DoF may be more important than the increase in diffraction. And it is amazing what unsharp masking can do.
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on May 08, 2013, 10:38:11 am: Quote from: theguywitha645d on May 08, 2013, 10:20:21 am
Why not try f/16 or f/22?

Hi,

Because the background detail becomes a distraction.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: theguywitha645d on May 08, 2013, 01:19:43 pm: Quote from: BartvanderWolf on May 08, 2013, 10:38:11 am
Hi,

Because the background detail becomes a distraction.

Cheers,
Bart

And exactly how do you know this? And this would be true for every possible situation?
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: NancyP on May 08, 2013, 05:35:55 pm: Another possibility is to set up a good hide or floating hide and wait for your larger subjects to show. With luck they may come close enough that you could use the 300mm f/4 bare at f/11 or so. I can get fine pictures of mallard duck or Canada goose pairs at the local park, using a 200mm lens and f/8 or f/11 aperture, but these birds are accustomed to lurking around picnic tables, waiting for the humans to leave so they can dash in and get the last crumbs. At least none of these park birds have come right up to me and nipped my leg if I don't have food. Hey! You! Where's the food?
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: andre b on May 08, 2013, 08:40:40 pm: Hi everybody and thank you very much for all your advices you guys are great

I did a lot of test today and I can confirm what Tony Jay said:Also stopping down the aperture on super telephoto lenses has rather a minor effect on DOF (depending on distance from the camera to focusing point, of course)

I have tried stopping down my lens till f36 and even for subject of about 50 feet away I couldnt even get 1 meter of focus (in front and back of focus point)

Ive tested also to see if my lens had front or back focus issues with the three staggered can trick from LesPalenik I was 10 feet away from the cans and they were approximately a feet away from each other and everytime I took a shot the only can that was in perfect focus was the one that I 've focused on till f22... I havent tried further than that since it would be almost impossible to get great picture at f/36 f/45 anyways
And I forgot to mention yesterday I tried focusing on both loons one after the other and each time only the one ive focused on was perfectly sharp.

I havent tried calibration/fine tuning since the picture I get are very sharp from my point of view and even comparing to what pro gets they are perfectly fine... But i've read about it and I know that in the future I will need to do it since its the way to go to have perfectly calibrated lens. But for right now my hands are pretty full learning photography itself /my camera body cnx2, lightroom, nik dfine/sharpener and photoshop next .... etc ...

I dont really like the idea of putting my fstops to f/16 or f/22 since I really dont like boosting my iso more than 800-1000 on crop sensor more than that if the lightning conditions are dark it needs noise reduction and its just another trade-off for sharpness and another step too much in the workflow
I feel like till IsO 800 when condition are bright enough you dont need to reduce noise ...
Also sometimes you get distracting backgrounds that pretty much ruin you photo but not in all situations
and anyways It wouldnt have done much for the pictures I took yesterday it would only have made my second subject sharper but doubt it would have made it perfectly sharp has where I focused

I've watch a lot of work from great wildlife photographer and noticed that everytime they were shooting with a telephoto from ground level /animal eye level they rarely have more than one subject in great focus unless both are very very close together , the only time they have many subjects in focus with telephoto you can see that they were very far away .

So there is no other way around .... mid range or wide angles lenses and get very very close or telephoto and shoot very very far if you want to capture many subject very sharp at different distances from ground level ..or last but not least get a full frame crank that f/stop and iso like crazy

thank you very much everybody you are great !
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 09, 2013, 11:20:12 pm: "I've tried ...not to boost my iso more than 1000."

What camera? With a few cameras ISO 10,000 , 12,800 and even 25,600 yield great results (I speak of the Canon EOS 1D X, 5D Mark III and Nikon D3s and D4) although you might want to carefully adjust both the noise reduction settings and capture sharpening settings carefully in your raw processor of choice depending on how large you'll print and on the print media's surface.
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Fine_Art on May 10, 2013, 02:05:32 am: If you are trying to learn with a mis-focusing lens you are in for frustrating times. You might even misinterpret things leading to bad habits. Do yourself a favor and check your lenses are working properly. It's very easy, put a measuring stick out at 45 degrees to the lens, put a black line on white paper or something similar to focus on. Check the ruler beside the line in your shots to see how far you are off if any.
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: stever on May 10, 2013, 11:25:21 am: with a little help from LR4, i consider most images from the 7D printable to ISO 1600 and ISO 6400 with the 5D3. you really don't get a depth of field benefit from FF as f11 crop frame has about the same dof as f16 FF both about the smallest apertures before diffraction gets serious.

with your combination of 300IS and 1.4x (iii i hope) i doubt you'll see a difference in sharpness between f8 and f11 (both sharper than f5.6) - but then the reason that the majority of wildlife images are taken with large apertures is not to control dof, but simply there isn't enough light in the early morning, late afternoon, and shade when and where you most often find activity - and/or the shutter requirements to stop action. the high ISO capability of the latest FF cameras are an enormous benefit for wildlife photography
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: andre b on May 10, 2013, 09:33:29 pm: OK, Thanks for the tip fine art ill try.
For the rest I think we are getting out of line here a little and its my fault
I talked too much

THE REAL QUESTIONS here IS
1-Im just saying take a 400 mm lens or 300mm with a tc 1.4
2-put 2 ducks (or other subject) in your frame close enough to cover at least 1/3 of the frame (with the ducks)
3-both ducks 1 foot away from each other or even a little bit closer (one further back from the other)
4-shoot from (duck)eye level ( belly flat on the ground )
5-focus on any of the ducks or in between
Can you achieve PERFECT FOCUS on both ducks?
If so id like to see an example (with any subject) and to know at what f/stop did you achieve this!

But I think Tony Jay answered my question pretty well he stated ''Also stopping down the aperture on super telephoto lenses has rather a minor effect on DOF (depending on distance from the camera to focusing point, of course).''

No I dont shoot with a d4
I shoot with a d7000.... so thats why I try to keep my ISO low
yes 1600 can be allright on many situations but I try to keep my ISO low so I that I have less work in front of the computer(post/noise reduction)
and more time shooting or doing something else.

Sorry If I confused you with my question
english is not my first language
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: LesPalenik on May 14, 2013, 10:14:36 pm: One foot distance between the two ducks, shot with a 400-600mm makes it impossible to get both ducks in focus. The effective DOF is only a few inches (less than 10cm).

Here is a shot of two ducks one foot apart with a FF camera and a 500mm lens:
(http://www.longprints.com/ImgGroup2/Group1/A0-MallardDuck1427W800.jpg)

The male is sharp, but the female is soft (as it should be).

If you can get closer and shoot at 200mm or less, the DOF will be larger.
Or try to position yourself (or the models) so, that the birds are almost in equal distance from you.
Here is a shot I took with D5100 (same sensor as D7000) and 70-300mm lens at 5.6, ISO 400, 1/320s. The left bird stands actually farther but when it leans forward, it gets slightly closer. I got the eyes of both birds pretty much in focus, and the beak of the right bird is sharp as well, but the beak of the left bird is about one inch closer, and it is already soft.

(http://www.longprints.com/ImgGroup2/Group1/A0-GreatHornedOwlets0584W800.jpg)

(http://www.longprints.com/ImgGroup2/Group1/A0-GreatHornedOwlets0584C1W800.jpg)

(http://www.longprints.com/ImgGroup2/Group1/A0-GreatHornedOwlets0584C2W600.jpg)

http://www.advantica.wordpress.com (http://www.advantica.wordpress.com)
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: andre b on May 15, 2013, 06:18:35 pm: thank you very much sir , I love the owl shot !
i've also heard that having a teleconverter also worsten this effect (shallower depth of field)
like having a 300mm with a 2x at f8 tele is worst
than having a 600mm at f8
Title: Beautiful great horned owlets!
Post by: NancyP on May 15, 2013, 06:37:36 pm: Thanks
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Tony Jay on May 16, 2013, 12:45:57 am: Quote from: andre b on May 15, 2013, 06:18:35 pm
... i've also heard that having a teleconverter also worsten this effect (shallower depth of field)
like having a 300mm with a 2x at f8 tele is worst
than having a 600mm at f8...

No Andre, like I have already said the effective focal length determines DOF, all else being equal of course.
So 600mm does equal 300 mm X 2.
However sometimes the optical quality of a 2X tele-extender may not really up to scratch and so the overall result can be a bit soft but this is completely different issue.
I elected not to buy a 2X tele-extender but went for a 1.4 instead.
Canon has since brought out a newer mark and things may have changed but it is clear that making a 2X tele-extender calls for some optical gymnastics and sometimes less than palatable trade-offs.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on May 16, 2013, 04:17:16 am: Quote from: andre b on May 15, 2013, 06:18:35 pm
thank you very much sir , I love the owl shot !
i've also heard that having a teleconverter also worsten this effect (shallower depth of field)
like having a 300mm with a 2x at f8 tele is worst
than having a 600mm at f8

Hi Andre,

You've probably been told wrong. Only if the Tele-converter/extender is a poor match to the lens in front of it, will image quality suffer, but not DoF. DoF is related to the focal length (which changes with an extender), the aperture, and the focus distance (and a CoC criterion for calculating the acceptable limits). There may be a small additional effect from the specific combined optical construction, due to the pupil magnification factor, but that is different between different designs, so cannot be taken as a general consideration.

DoF near the focus plane is mostly determined by the magnification factor if we keep the aperture constant (and shoot significantly closer than the hyper-focal length), so it also doesn't matter much for the DoF if one uses a shorter focal length, and shoots closer to keep the same magnification, or the other way around. It does matter for the rendering of the OOF fore- and background (the magnification changes with focal length and distance).

One of the better sources of information about DoF and other optical considerations can be found here (http://toothwalker.org/optics/dof.html).

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: lowep on May 16, 2013, 07:07:09 am: why not take 2 shots at different focus points and blend them together in photoshop?
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: BJL on May 16, 2013, 10:36:48 pm: Quote from: lowep on May 16, 2013, 07:07:09 am
why not take 2 shots at different focus points and blend them together in photoshop?
Often not possible with wildlife, if it is indeed alive, and not "nailed to the perch".

My suggestions are to experiment with:
1. higher ISO speeds, especially since for wildlife photography, the resolution of modern cameras is oftn more than enough, so that a dose of noise reduction processing is acceptable.
2. "loose framing" and cropping rather than a teleconvertor, again exploiting the abundance of sensor resolution.
My premise here is that about 8MP is often enough --- and more than one ever got with 35mm film, given the moderate to high ISO film typically used with long lens wildlife photography.

P.S. thanks to Les Palenik for the advice and great examples.
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Tony Jay on May 17, 2013, 05:48:30 am: Quote from: lowep on May 16, 2013, 07:07:09 am
why not take 2 shots at different focus points and blend them together in photoshop?
I have never seen a bird or an animal in the wild stay still long enough...

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: lowep on May 17, 2013, 07:56:07 am: http://www.tonywhitehead.com/wildlight/2012/12/focus-stacking-for-bird-photography/
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Tony Jay on May 17, 2013, 06:24:14 pm: Quote from: lowep on May 17, 2013, 07:56:07 am
http://www.tonywhitehead.com/wildlight/2012/12/focus-stacking-for-bird-photography/
I read the link - note the opening sentence, "Having found a co-operative gull and chick..."
This is rare as hen's (pardon gull's) teeth and focus stacking is in no way a generally applicable technique for bird and wildlife photography.
So, this cannot be suggested to the OP as a solution to his perceived problem.
Good on Tony Whitehead for spotting the opportunity and managing to exploit it though.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: lowep on May 18, 2013, 03:40:26 am: This is rare as hen's (pardon gull's) teeth

+1 ;)
it took me quite a while to find this example - most people seem to use focus stacking for photographing bugs.
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Tony Jay on May 18, 2013, 04:38:46 am: Quote from: lowep on May 18, 2013, 03:40:26 am
This is rare as hen's (pardon gull's) teeth

+1 ;)
it took me quite a while to find this example - most people seem to use focus stacking for photographing bugs.
Yes, focus stacking is a tricky technique even with static subjects but fantastic results are possible with macro-type subjects.
An Australian couple has done an entire book of images of native flowers using HDR and focus stacking.
Apparently an enormous amount of work (I can believe it too!) but to call the results spectacular undersells it a bit.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on May 18, 2013, 04:59:06 am: Quote from: Tony Jay on May 17, 2013, 06:24:14 pm
This is rare as hen's (pardon gull's) teeth and focus stacking is in no way a generally applicable technique for bird and wildlife photography.

Hi Tony,

I disagree. It has to do with looking for the opportunity.

In this shot I wanted both the mother and chick in focus, and in a pose that showed both as well as possible.
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/temp/Common-EurAsianCoot_Fulica-Atra.jpg)

While in this composite they seem to be in the same focal plane, they were actually in different places. The chicks went for short swims on their own, and struggled while crawling back into the nest. I also cloned in (and out) some of the foreground branches to show the rough structure of the nest.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 18, 2013, 05:15:43 am: Hi,

One way to try is get focusing right. If things don't move I normally use live view at 11X times magnification, but this obviously doesn't work for action.

Stopping down to f/22 or so may be OK. Diffraction is very benign to sharpening. Some sharpening tools can improve slightly out of focus detail.

DoF is pretty much given with long lenses. Nothing to do about, really.

Best regards
Erik
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Tony Jay on May 18, 2013, 05:18:52 am: Bart

Nothing to say that it can't be done - you have provided an image to show that you have achieved it too.
Could one look for opportunities - sure.

Having spent a lot of time shooting with supertelephoto lenses over the last seven years (perhaps not long when compared to your good self) I have so rarely had a static scenario with birds or wildlife where I could even consider such a technique that I can't really recall one.

I am headed to Southern Africa later this year on a photographic expedition.
I will keep my eyes open for opportunities - who knows - a sleeping pride of lions perhaps?
Nonetheless shooting from inside a vehicle with no way of fixing the camera position I am not that optimistic of getting a workable sequence of images that I could focus stack.

I think it fantastic, if achievable, but I would classify it rather more more as a novelty than as a generally applicable technique in the context.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: lowep on May 18, 2013, 05:45:14 am: shooting from inside a vehicle with no way of fixing the camera position

??? do you mean you choose not to fix the camera position?
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Tony Jay on May 18, 2013, 05:56:22 am: Quote from: lowep on May 18, 2013, 05:45:14 am
shooting from inside a vehicle with no way of fixing the camera position

??? do you mean you choose not to fix the camera position?

Well, only that using a big beanbag over the window or doorframe cannot guarantee the same perspective with consecutive shots, particularly if a change in focus is required between images.
With supertelephoto lenses the smallest movement results in massive changes of what one sees down the lens.
Focus stacking off a tripod and using a remote for landscape or macro - completely different issue.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on May 18, 2013, 09:39:16 am: Quote from: Tony Jay on May 18, 2013, 05:18:52 am
I am headed to Southern Africa later this year on a photographic expedition.
I will keep my eyes open for opportunities - who knows - a sleeping pride of lions perhaps?
Nonetheless shooting from inside a vehicle with no way of fixing the camera position I am not that optimistic of getting a workable sequence of images that I could focus stack.

Hi Tony,

One has to at least keep an open mind to the potential use of multiple image composites. In fact, you can additionally explore the opportunities of pano-stitching with a tele-lens! It can be easier than stitching wide-angle shots, because the foreground detail could be non-existing or blurred, and the background blurred enough to hide parallax issues.

The benefit of tele-lens stitching is that you can seemingly get close and personal, yet have the field of view similar to that of a wider angle lens. Great sunsets are common, but a lot of other subjects can be done just as easily (which is not the same as easy, it may require some clever selection/blending/compositing work).

Anyway, whatever it takes to get the ~~shot~~ image, is what counts. Only reporters are bound to truth in imaging.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Tony Jay on May 19, 2013, 05:10:09 am: Well Bart,

I am no stranger to using tele lenses for panoramas, but again, I would use a tripod, purpose head, and a remote.
I am having to carefully weigh (both literally and metaphorically) the merits of various lenses and accessories that will go with to Africa.
Some local flights will limit me to 20 kg in total. (Luckily my foray into the Okavango is relatively short so if I need to I will limit clothes to just a change of undies because I want to avoid limiting photographic opportunities which will not only be birds and wildlife with supertelephoto lenses but also landscape. I don't expect too many opportunities for macro shooting so no macro lenses to be packed.)
It is true that my better half will be with me and that we will not be packing much in the way of clothes but I certainly will not be able to take anywhere near the equipment that I travel with in Australia.
In fact my Nissan Patrol, that I affectionately refer to as my camera bag, is most definitely needed for all the bits and bobs that currently fit in several large pelican cases.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on May 19, 2013, 08:14:39 am: Quote from: Tony Jay on May 19, 2013, 05:10:09 am
I am having to carefully weigh (both literally and metaphorically) the merits of various lenses and accessories that will go with to Africa.

Hi Tony,

You've probably already done a fair bit of preparation, but perhaps this experienced safari photographer and blogger can still offer some additional inspiration, and experience:
http://www.theglobalphotographer.com/the-global-photographer/category/safari-reports (http://www.theglobalphotographer.com/the-global-photographer/category/safari-reports)

He also shows what's in his bag, and explains why: http://www.theglobalphotographer.com/whats-in-andys-bag/ (http://www.theglobalphotographer.com/whats-in-andys-bag/)

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: Tony Jay on May 20, 2013, 02:21:21 am: Andy Biggs, I am very familiar with.
Never met him unfortunately.

My favourite image of his is an airborne shot of the Skeleton Coast.

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Any wildlifer , need help dof telephoto
Post by: telyt on May 20, 2013, 11:12:12 pm: Quote from: andre b on May 07, 2013, 09:26:11 pm
Hi all I've been trying to figure out how to get decent dof from ground level shooting wildlife, any advice from an experience photographer would help

As others have mentioned, there isn't any DOF to speak of. Wildlife, especially smaller creatures, is a photographic "perfect storm": small (requires more magnification) active (indicates fast shutter speed) uncooperative (generally requires a long lens) creatures who often prefer subdued light (works against DOF and fast shutter speed) in 3-d space when the camera can record clearly in only 2 dimensions. Your task as a wildlife photographer, if you choose to accept it, is to minimize the effect of any or all of these whammies.

Some ways to get around these problems include artificial light, a remote-controlled camera near a place the birds will normally come to, and waiting for the perfect moment when the critter is standing still, parallel to the plane of focus.

I prefer not to use artificial light and I also prefer to keep the camera in my hands so that I can respond to unanticipated activities, but I haven't figured out how to get around the plane of focus thing so I wait until everyone is lined up:

(http://www.wildlightphoto.com/birds/podicipedidae/pbgreb08.jpg)

(http://www.wildlightphoto.com/birds/podicipedidae/pbgreb09.jpg)