Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Camera Raw Q&A => Topic started by: Joe S on May 02, 2013, 05:19:41 pm
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such as the new spot removal?
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Yep...but only in the next version which has not been released...
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Then the next obvious question is: will that version of Camera Raw be made available as an update to CS6 or only available, eventually, to purchasers of CS7?
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And that can't be answered because Adobe has made no announcements, but in the past, when LR shipped first, it was the next new version of Camera Raw that got the new features, not the old version. So, what do you think? You figure Adobe will add new features to Camera Raw for free?
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You figure Adobe will add new features to Camera Raw for free?
Of course they will, they are a charitable organization for the furtherance of the graphic arts, no? ;)
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Then the next obvious question is: will that version of Camera Raw be made available as an update to CS6 or only available, eventually, to purchasers of CS7?
Adobe have chosen to designate the new LR as LR5, not LR4.5 but coming so soon after the release of 4.0 and with relatively few new features, I'm not sure that the step-up of a full version is warranted. However, since LR is very reasonably priced I doubt that many will complain. In the past, upgrading PS was often worth it merely to get the latest version of ACR. However, now that we have LR, I suspect that many will not upgrade to each new release of PS.
Regards,
Bill
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However, now that we have LR, I suspect that many will not upgrade to each new release of PS.
That strategy is pretty much over since PS can only be upgraded from the most recent version...and I wouldn't be surprised to see new policies in the near future.
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That strategy is pretty much over since PS can only be upgraded from the most recent version...and I wouldn't be surprised to see new policies in the near future.
And how is that?
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And how is that?
You mean the one version back upgrade policy for Photoshop? So, you know that in order to upgrade to CS6, you must have CS5. Adobe used allow a 3 version back upgrade path, so one could skip a version or two and still get upgrade pricing. Now, if you have CS3 or CS4, you have to buy the full priced retail version of CS6. And, in the future, there may be (prolly will be) new policies...
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You mean the one version back upgrade policy for Photoshop? So, you know that in order to upgrade to CS6, you must have CS5. Adobe used allow a 3 version back upgrade path, so one could skip a version or two and still get upgrade pricing. Now, if you have CS3 or CS4, you have to buy the full priced retail version of CS6. And, in the future, there may be (prolly will be) new policies...
Yes, from what I have heard, Adobe may go over completely to a subscription plan (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/cssubscription.edu.html) for Photoshop and other CS applications. On that basis, the user would get updates as they occur. I see that one can subscribe only to a single CS application or the entire suite, depending on one's needs. I presume that LR would continue to be sold as a discrete application. Students and teachers get a discount, but are not supposed to use the applications for commercial purposes. Can you supply any additional information?
Regards,
Bill
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Can you supply any additional information?
Not at this time...
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Understand I love PS and LR. BUT I wish to hell Adobe had some serious competition in the PS and LR arena. With a virtual monopoly I fear where they might go with this.
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> I wish to hell Adobe had some serious competition in the PS and LR arena.
You might try PhotoLine for PS, pl32.com .
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That strategy is pretty much over since PS can only be upgraded from the most recent version...and I wouldn't be surprised to see new policies in the near future.
Jeff, I know you can't say, but I'm really hoping those 'new policies' don't include making Adobe Photoshop subscription only...I have no desire to give Adobe a monthly lifeline to my bank account...as a one person studio who does not use anything but Photoshop and now Lightroom from Adobe I really don't find the subscription logic economical in my favor. And I don't personally need month to month upgrades, especially for things I can't use for my work.
Think I'd just use CS6 or CS7 if still available as a standard purchase until I can't anymore because it doesn't work with the computers and then have a plan B. What plan B is, today, I don't know. I've been using Photoshop since the early 90's and hope I'm not forced to consider dumping it. But I will. I really hate having my hand forced when I know it doesn't have to be that way.
I used to upgrade Illustrator and Indesign every two to three versions even if I didn't need to. Since I don't use those programs enough anymore I decided not to upgrade them. Adobe's subscription policy for those two products put an end to me upgrading them.
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I have no desire to give Adobe a monthly lifeline to my bank account...as a one person studio who does not use anything but Photoshop and now Lightroom from Adobe I really don't find the subscription logic economical in my favor. And I don't personally need month to month upgrades, especially for things I can't use for my work.
You sure?
What if the price point was, uh, more in your favor?
You sure that a known monthly nut wouldn't be of interest vs. a new $199 price every 18 months? And the ability to get new features when they are ready vs. waiting 18 months to get them?
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You sure?
What if the price point was, uh, more in your favor?
You sure that a known monthly nut wouldn't be of interest vs. a new $199 price every 18 months? And the ability to get new features when they are ready vs. waiting 18 months to get them?
Guess it depends what the price point is. Based on prices today, the adobe single app cost is 20 dollars a month or 25 euros a month. Even if it's just every 18 months I still do better paying the upgrade fee like I used to.
Also, now I can upgrade when I want. Say I bought CS6 upgrade when it came out. Today I don't have to upgrade to CS7 until CS8 is ready to ship, if I don't want to lose my right/ability to upgrade. That would be closer to 36 months. Ok, say we narrow it down to 30 months. That's still only around $7 a month, not $20. Today the price point is not in my favor.
Based on the new features I've seen released over the last months for CS6 subscription users I'd say yes, I could wait till CS7 to have them included. They don't mean anything to me or my work.
Also, the $20/25 euro a month price is relevant today. What if Adobe decides to raise the price next year? I mean I wouldn't be surprised. What do I do? If I don't like it I can just stop paying and have nothing in hand to work with. At least until now by buying my 18 month upgrades I could continue to use Photoshop.
Honest, Jeff, I have nothing but respect for the folks that work at Adobe. I'm not trying to take food out of their mouths. I don't expect them to work for free. I love photoshop. I don't want to be put in a position to have to stop using it. But the subscription model just doesn't fit into my financial horizon.
Even if they came down to $10 a month, I'd be skeptical. Why? Forgive me this lapse into my imagination, but I suspect the shareholders would want more profit. Tease 'em with something cheap up front, get 'em addicted, then lower the hammer. Ok, call me paranoid. This is another 'thing' in our world, but I just hate the inflated prices of food and countless other things due to shareholders. Profit being given to people who do nothing but inflate the true prices of goods and services seems wrong to me. Food for another forum.
Sorry, but no. Not tempted in the least by the adobe subscription offers. What they'll offer us tomorrow, well, you know more about it than I.
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Another aspect to the whole subscription issue I've not seen many people worry about is; what happens when you stop subscribing.
What are you left with ? Nothing.
At least with bought and 'owned' software you can at least continue to use old software until it will no longer run on a future OS, but even then you should be able to keep it running on older software+hardware. No being switched off by the cessation of a subscription.
Photoshop stopped for me at CS4 and I'll be happy to use The Gimp and donate to it's development if CS4 stops working for me at some future time.
Lightroom is still a unique option at the moment, but if it ever goes subscription only I'll be off to another product.
Will Adobe worry about me ? not at all, I'm totally unimportant to them.
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Another aspect to the whole subscription issue I've not seen many people worry about is; what happens when you stop subscribing.
What are you left with ? Nothing.
I believe so. This is the 'big' issue many have with a subscription, especially those who have no issues running very old copies of say Photoshop. I was reading from someone the other day who's still using CS4. I have no problem with that too. That person could theoretically run CS4 forever assuming they never upgrade their OS or hardware. That of course would not be the case if one's subscription runs out.
If you're like me, always upgrading whenever possible, the subscription is pretty great. If you are the opposite, maybe not so attractive.
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What makes it difficult to do the sums is that Adobe could up the subscription price at any time.
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If you're like me, always upgrading whenever possible, the subscription is pretty great. If you are the opposite, maybe not so attractive.
In addition, don't forget that with subscriptions, Adobe has made the subscription cross-platform so if you use both, that's convenient.
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What makes it difficult to do the sums is that Adobe could up the subscription price at any time.
But they could do the same with upgrade pricing or pricing of new product builds.
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But they could do the same with upgrade pricing or pricing of new product builds.
But as others have noted you are then free to continue with what you have. With a subscription you have nothing. I would strongly oppose such a move. If you have the money or are in the business it may work but for hobby use by those of modest means it sucks.
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What happens when a new machine is required to run the new software like in LR5 where an older OS can't work? Will you have to buy a new machine? Will your subscription not run the older versions?
Mike
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To address the original question: as Jeff said there will be a version of Camera Raw that will support all of the new image-editing features of Lr 5 Beta. This is consistent with our goal of preserving rendering compatibility between Lr and ACR, assuming matching versions. Currently there is no publicly-available version of Camera Raw that supports the new imaging features of Lr 5 Beta (Upright, Radial Filter, brush-type spots of the improved Spot Tool) but that will change soon.
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As much time as we spend on multiple Adobe products, the subscription is the way to go. So far, it's been a good fit at my studio.
I suppose that, someday in the future, we'll want to get off the upgrade treadmill (software and hardware). At that time, we'd spike the subscription.
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Currently there is no publicly-available version of Camera Raw that supports the new imaging features of Lr 5 Beta (Upright, Radial Filter, brush-type spots of the improved Spot Tool) but that will change soon.
Here's some info on the upcoming Camera Raw release:
http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2013/05/photoshop-cc-for-creative-cloud-members-coming-soon.html
In short, Camera Raw 8 will include the three new image editing features from Lightroom 5 Beta (as noted above already), and the ability to apply Camera Raw as a (Smart) Filter from within Photoshop, among other things.
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But they could do the same with upgrade pricing or pricing of new product builds.
Yes, they could raise the price of the perpetual upgrade price to $500 instead of the current $200...that would make the pricing of their subscriptions seem like a real bargain...
Well, based on announcements seen today at DPR it looks like Adobe Photoshop CS6 will be my last version of this software. Sad, but such is life. It felt like this was coming when I upgraded from CS5 to CS6. I hope this spurs competitors to come up with some great, new, software. Not sure how long I'll be able to continue with CS6. It'll be real strange not using Photoshop anymore.
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Here's some info on the upcoming Camera Raw release:
http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2013/05/photoshop-cc-for-creative-cloud-members-coming-soon.html
In short, Camera Raw 8 will include the three new image editing features from Lightroom 5 Beta (as noted above already), and the ability to apply Camera Raw as a (Smart) Filter from within Photoshop, among other things.
Will Camera Raw 8 only be available to subscription users?...
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Camera Raw 8 will be available to both CC and CS6 customers.
However, the new imaging and workflow features of ACR 8 will only be available when running ACR under Photoshop CC. They will not be available when running ACR under Photoshop CS6. On the other hand, new camera support and bug fixes will be available in ACR 8 under both CS6 and CC. Hope that makes sense.
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What Eric means is, since Photoshop CS6 is still a current shipping product, to offer continued updates for ACR, Adobe has decided to keep updating ACR but instead of doing ACR 7.x updates, ACR 8 will be made to work under both Photoshop CC and Photoshop CS6. This is a break from tradition a bit but is similar in nature to the differences between Photoshop and say Elements where the full features are there for Photoshop but a reduced feature set is there for Elements.
The engineers thought this would work better than to have to keep updating both ACR 7.x for CS6 and 8.x for CC.
Also not that while the new features won't be accessible in ACR 8 in CS6, ACR 8.x in CS6 will still be able to process all the new features that can be set in LR5 and Photoshop CC. This is like the last time where ACR 6.7 was released so CS5 could process (but not alter) settings from LR4.
Clearer?
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If anyone thinks the "introductory' price will be the price forever I've got a nice swamp for sale in Florida...
Stop paying in the future and you own nothing and would not even be able to go back and edit old images.....
*New Coke
*Netflix decides to "spin off" movies by mail
*JC Penny's new marketing...
well you get the idea... >:(
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Well, this got weird. As a CS6 owner (since forever upgrading from the previous version) it appears that my loyalty may be 2nd class compared to a CC member.
I love Photoshop and ACR, but maybe the love is not returned.
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What Eric means is, since Photoshop CS6 is still a current shipping product, to offer continued updates for ACR, Adobe has decided to keep updating ACR but instead of doing ACR 7.x updates, ACR 8 will be made to work under both Photoshop CC and Photoshop CS6. This is a break from tradition a bit but is similar in nature to the differences between Photoshop and say Elements where the full features are there for Photoshop but a reduced feature set is there for Elements.
The engineers thought this would work better than to have to keep updating both ACR 7.x for CS6 and 8.x for CC.
Also not that while the new features won't be accessible in ACR 8 in CS6, ACR 8.x in CS6 will still be able to process all the new features that can be set in LR5 and Photoshop CC. This is like the last time where ACR 6.7 was released so CS5 could process (but not alter) settings from LR4.
Clearer?
Eric, Jeff, thanks for that explanation about camera raw 8...
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Well, this got weird. As a CS6 owner (since forever upgrading from the previous version) it appears that my loyalty may be 2nd class compared to a CC member.
Herding users to the CC version is strictly business. Any software used in a business by end users (e.g., photographers) should be a profit center, not a black hole of unknown expense.
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The subscription cost for Photoshop CC at $20 per month or $240 per year is very high.
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So owners of Photoshop CS6 get the new ACR, but with all the features disabled? - I can't wait!
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So owners of Photoshop CS6 get the new ACR, but with all the features disabled? - I can't wait!
Yes...what, you wanted new stuff for free? Get real...or get the upgrade :~)
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I thought this over very thoroughly today...
if anyone that uses Photoshop in a Business which is a legitimate tax write off expense, and cannot afford $20 a month for what Photoshop does for them is not being very realistic ! You will piss away a lot more $$$ just eating out at glorified fast food establishment a couple of times a month
BTW the first year will be $10 a month
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This was my response to Adobe regarding their marvelous new licensing model, "Not interested in arguments or any of the self-serving sophistry. Simply put, this long time user of Adobe products will no longer purchase further Adobe products, at least not as long as you force customers to the cloud and subscription-based software. There are already acceptable alternatives, and Cloud-forcing will only speed up the availability of better and better alternatives. Bye." Not interested in arguments here either; but, like Adobe, I also am in business and their new business model no longer fits my business needs. No anger or angst. We will each do just fine without each other. And I have "prolly" spent my last $$ on the "Doode" dude's various Adobe publications & videos. Looking forward to learning more about PhotoLine, and have already found Iridient Developer (formally Raw Developer) to provide better raw conversion than ACR. There is life after Photoshop. Ahhhh, I'm feeling better already.
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Hmmm, meant for the above post to go in "Adobe diverging Creative Cloud and Standard versions", sorry 'bout that.
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And I have "prolly" spent my last $$ on the "Doode" dude's various Adobe publications & videos.
Ok, bye now...
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I believe you can do a trial subscription of CC at Adobe. I'd urge you to try it before you completely blast the idea. I wasn't keen on the whole subscription model either... but there is loads of potentially very useful resources available with a CC subscription that go well beyond even the boxed Master set of Creative Suite. I've signed up.
If you're a user that uses only one app (Photoshop) and who doesn't upgrade regularly, then the subscription is not a good deal. For most other users its at least marginally attractive and potentially very attractive.
I've heard from persons I trust that pricing of single apps may well fall in the future. $20/month for Photoshop only is a tad steep considering what you get with the full CC. A little lowering of that price... or a package designed more specifically for photographers... say Lightroom, Photoshop, Acrobat and some of the online services... at a lower price point than the full suite would make this much more palatable to more users.
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...but there is loads of potentially very useful resources available with a CC subscription that go well beyond even the boxed Master set of Creative Suite.
Will someone on the internet post specifics on what can be done with these potentially very useful resources and stop talking in vague sounding riddles?
I spent hours trying to figure the "potential" behind a Cloud subscription and how it offers "DEEP" integration within workflow scenarios, but never any specifics of boots on the ground application. Can anyone outline an example workflow scenario that's actually being implemented using these potentially useful resources?
Is it just about internet eCommerce, social network photo sharing, syncing everyone's computer with shared content for some mysterious intercommunication business operations?
No one talks in specifics and so I don't think anyone here knows what the hell this is. It SOUNDS smart but trying to SEE how smart is impossible for me to find any specifics on.
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I’m sure Adobe realizes that when computers and operating systems change to a point where today’s Adobe software no longer functions, many Adobe files dating all the way back to the first pre-CS versions will become useless unless one pays the ransom, AKA “subscription”. Then, the files will be useable only as long as one pays continuously. It could take a long time for this to come about, or not. The only sure thing is that it will happen.
I can afford $20/month, especially if it means maintaining access to all of the files I’ve created since 1996, but the principal of this bothers me. There are lots of people out there who have lots of existing Adobe files, new and old. Not everyone can afford to continuously pay just to maintain access to their old files, nor should they have to. The point here is that people who didn’t buy into a subscription scheme when they made the files will eventually be forced to buy into one in order to use or access those files. I don’t care if any new or old product demands a subscription in order to use files that were created with the subscription in effect, or to use features that were implemented after the subscription model was implemented. In those cases users know the rules and can choose accordingly with no impact on their previous work.
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Will someone on the internet post specifics on what can be done with these potentially very useful resources and stop talking in vague sounding riddles?
My post and others are short on specifics because there are many services that would take a very lengthy write-up to begin to explain. And what seems useful to me may be meaningless to you and vice versa.
Yes... much of these add ons are about sharing, social networks and your marketing in general. Some of the things I find useful:
I pay $100/year for Dropbox space. I get 30GB of Adobe CC space that works pretty much exactly the same way (with a cleaner interface) included in the subscription.
I believe that the ability to easily create mobile apps through InDesign is a great portfolio distribution tool. I know a small handful of artists already successfully using it. With CC membership you get unlimited free submissions to the Apple App store (if you choose to use that route). Those are normally close to $400 each.
I'm intrigued by portfolio marketing through Behance. That has been about $100/year I think. Now included at no charge with CC membership
You get web hosting on Adobe's rather substantial server network for up to four sites included with the CC membership.
There's a wealth of mobile content creation tools that I currently don't begin to understand. I'm guessing that those that can figure them out and start using them before the rest of the heard will achieve greater marketing impact when trying to promote their work.
Does that help a bit? You really just need to dive in and start poking around. There's a substantial amount of decent free video demos available
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There's a wealth of mobile content creation tools that I currently don't begin to understand. I'm guessing that those that can figure them out and start using them before the rest of the heard will achieve greater marketing impact when trying to promote their work.
Does that help a bit? You really just need to dive in and start poking around. There's a substantial amount of decent free video demos available
Yes, it helped confirm after already doing as you suggested by poking around in an online search. Here's a copy of what I found and posted in the big Lula CC discussion on this subject...
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=78085.540
The more information I found on this topic online the more I realize I've been living in a cave despite the fact I've been connected to the internet and contributing to digital imaging (photo editing/reproduction) discussions for over 10 years.
After reading what Jeff Schewe finally put into words that made sense over all the interference on this thread...
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=78151.0
...concerning CC's target market toward professionals, I'm curious if this is going to reduce the amount of online Adobe app troubleshooting posts and general digital imaging discussions since CC integrates bug fixes and feature additions through the Cloud that seems to require a call to Adobe customer service for any trouble encountered. Is this what the Cloud is designed for with regard to professionals?
This looks like a way to reduce the chatter and clutter of issues posted online by folks having trouble with their Adobe apps who don't make a living using these apps so Adobe can focus their customers service resources and energies toward those whose survival of their business requires priority attention by Adobe. Wonder if Adobe will be needing to hire more customer service personnel.
To see how big this is I did a search to see if Getty Images is onboard with CC and they already have CC integration and option selections on their website, but I also found some other very interesting "Mashable.com" articles on CC from an interview with Adobe CEO and other articles explaining Adobe's other plans to expand like bringing prime time TV to the internet.
http://mashable.com/2012/11/15/adobe-project-primetime/
And Adobe's acquiring Behance, appears to function similarly to what "Communication Arts" used to do for professional creative's that wanted to publish their portfolio to be targeted and seen by other professionals and media buyers exclusively except I'm assuming without "Communication Arts" hefty entry fees. The CC subscription price probably covers it at a much reduced cost.
So with CC, if you want to play with the pros and/or come across or be perceived as a pro (with pro problems for Adobe to deal with), then pay the price with a subscription. As a former professional creative it makes perfect sense.
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...will achieve greater marketing impact when trying to promote their work.
So CC is acting as an internet within the internet where if a pro's work wants to be seen (by the right people=content buyers?), the CC is the place to be seen without being buried among the oblivion of billions of other photos available by both amateurs and pro's on sites like Flickr and other regular image gallery hosting sites, right?
How are eyeballs grabbed in the Cloud in this regard? Does it function like a social "rubbing of elbows" after a hard days work at the Cloud office using Adobe apps where one professional creative bumps into another on an unrelated project and tells the other they like their work and suggest they show it to XXX company who's also in the Cloud?
I'm just trying to distinguish how a pro promotes their work on the internet that's different from how it's done in the Cloud.
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I'm just trying to distinguish how a pro promotes their work on the internet that's different from how it's done in the Cloud.
I don't think it is different. Creative Cloud just packages a lot of related tools and services into one box at an arguably attractive price. Presumably that makes buying and using those things more efficient... and if it does, hopefully that makes your marketing more efficient.
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I don't think it is different. Creative Cloud just packages a lot of related tools and services into one box at an arguably attractive price. Presumably that makes buying and using those things more efficient... and if it does, hopefully that makes your marketing more efficient.
Then if there's no difference between doing that on the internet over the Cloud how does one's work get found in the Cloud. Can content uploaded to the Cloud get indexed by Google and show up in a Google search, not that that's going to help a photographer's work get spotted, but just asking for clarity sake.
There appears to be benefits of working in the Cloud in promoting one's work as suggested in the terms used to describe its advantages such as "collaboration" and "sharing" among fellow creatives, users and professionals. I'm trying to see the logistics on how that's going to happen as opposed to doing it on the internet.
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I'm trying to see the logistics on how that's going to happen as opposed to doing it on the internet.
But you ARE doing it on the internet. Creative Cloud is nothing more than a collection of tools distributed via the internet that hopefully (among others things) make it more efficient for you to work on the internet. Host a web site on Adobe's servers and its searched/indexed just like any site anywhere else. Create a portfolio using Behance and its available as a portfolio web site using your own domain... just like any other regular web site... and/or it can exist on behance.net... a site specifically for presenting a variety of artists portfolios in a searchable fashion. Put your files in the Creative Cloud and you can share them with whomever you choose... just like using Dropbox or any of numerous other filesharing sites. Adobe has just packaged all of these things together in a way to get a lot of integrated services for one single fee from a single provider. Some will like that sort of simplicity. Some won't.
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But you ARE doing it on the internet. Creative Cloud is nothing more than a collection of tools distributed via the internet that hopefully (among others things) make it more efficient for you to work on the internet. Host a web site on Adobe's servers and its searched/indexed just like any site anywhere else. Create a portfolio using Behance and its available as a portfolio web site using your own domain... just like any other regular web site... and/or it can exist on behance.net... a site specifically for presenting a variety of artists portfolios in a searchable fashion. Put your files in the Creative Cloud and you can share them with whomever you choose... just like using Dropbox or any of numerous other filesharing sites. Adobe has just packaged all of these things together in a way to get a lot of integrated services for one single fee from a single provider. Some will like that sort of simplicity. Some won't.
OK, Bob, that's more specific. Thanks for the feedback and patience.
I understand the tools and Behance. I just got the impression working in the Creative Cloud was sort of securitized and cordoned off from regular internet general public's prying eyes in order to prevent the pro's work from getting lifted and posted to something like Pinterest, kind of like an internet gated community for professionals who could do searches targeted only at Cloud member's work.
I take it that's not how CC functions.