Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: darlingm on February 08, 2013, 09:31:39 pm

Title: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: darlingm on February 08, 2013, 09:31:39 pm
I reproduce artwork and print for photographers.

Art's almost easier.  Borrow the original, do my thing.  I've never been comfortable with what to do with ... those that I'll call an amateur professional photographer.  Someone who spends a lot of time selling their work, either part or full time.  However, sends me sRGB files, has blown highlights, hasn't been color managed, has too much noise, has been enlarged a lot without using something like Perfect Resize or PhotoZoom Pro, etc, etc.  But, someone who creates fantastic photos, but they could be so much more.

I don't want to criticize their work and drive them away.

But, my largest impulse is wanting to ask if they want to give me the original unmodified file the camera captured, in whatever form that is, and handling it from there, having seen the general direction they tried going in.  At this point, I don't mind spending the time to edit an image for them.  Should be charging for image editing, and will someday, but right now I'm focused more on getting beyond thrilled clients.  Then, after the job's handled, being very active in offering them (complementary) help and training in how they can do it better in the future.

However, I don't want to be offensive.  Don't want to sound like I'm saying you don't know what you're doing, just let me do it.

But, I want their image to sell well so they're successful, and I'm successful by them needing more prints.  But, I'm sure they still want it to be their image.  (Personally, I'm happy selling the prints, not concerned about credit for it or anything.)


I know most of you are photographers who print for yourselves.  Before you learned everything you've learned, how would you have liked for a printer you were using to handle this situation?
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: bill t. on February 08, 2013, 10:32:45 pm
Less than a couple decades ago there were specific printers and technicians at color labs and custom b&w labs that were much sought after by pro photographers.  And it was common for top pros to employ in-house lab people.  The idea of fruitful alliances between photographers and photo technicians is an old and respected one.  Perhaps there's some way to exploit those recent traditions to your benefitt.  In my little city there are at least 2 people who do that kind of work and make a good living at it.  And for instance, Gregory Crewdson has occasionally mentioned his favorite type C printer by name during interviews, etc. There's no shame in it, and in a way having people working "under you" is a prestigious thing.

It's all in the spin-doctoring.  "You work is fantastic!  Why don't you let me take that post processing burden off you shoulders so you can spend time concentrating on your photography.  I can show you first approximation proofs, and we can work from there to refine prints that will look great in the best venues."  Shouldn't take much more than that.  (damn prima donas!)
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: langier on February 08, 2013, 11:40:22 pm
Invite your clients over for a half-day demo of how to properly and professionally craft their images for print.  Take one of their images and take them through the whole process showing them potential issues with their files, how to choose proper files for printing, etc.

They'll learn to work more carefully and you'll get files that are easier for you to print and you all will benefit from the colaberation. .
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: darronfishman on February 09, 2013, 12:40:47 am
The profession of photography is best if we do our job with full dedication.Make a gallery of images and keep a sort of small exhibition on it.Clients will see your work and try to learn from it.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Mike Guilbault on February 09, 2013, 07:29:32 am
I find that most amateur photographers (and even most professionals) love that you're trying to help them improve their image. They are often amazed at how much better their prints look after I'm done with them.  I have a few that simply send me their files and say 'do your magic'!  You can't go wrong with being honest. I told one photographer that his stuff was awful (and why) and he's made a drastic improvement over the last year. I have a display of my work in the front gallery so they can see the quality I can produce and have never had anyone get upset about my suggestions.  My price list for prints states that the prices are for 'print ready' files. I will do minor adjustments, mostly just in soft-proofing, and charge extra for colour correction, tonal adjustments or retouching.  They understand that.   I also offer workshops in photography and post-processing (the Lightroom workflow) so they feel comfortable asking me questions.  They view my services as there to help them. So... by all means make suggestions, critique their work and teach them.  They'll appreciate it and come back for more!
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Justan on February 09, 2013, 11:25:04 am
Quote
It's all in the spin-doctoring.  "You work is fantastic!  Why don't you let me take that post processing burden off you shoulders so you can spend time concentrating on your photography.  I can show you first approximation proofs, and we can work from there to refine prints that will look great in the best venues."  Shouldn't take much more than that.  (damn prima donas!)

Offering a trial image enhancement for a nominal cost might be a good idea but it could also become a sink hole of time.

At my shows recently there have been vast numbers of people who have asked directly and indirectly how to increase their print quality. These “enthusiasts” are starting to drive me nutty as they demand so much time but absolutely never are interested in buying anything. And there are so many of them! It is difficult to spend much time explaining PP in any degree of detail at a show. Plus I’ve found that most are ignorant and intimidated by the use of PS and LR or other similar tools, but few are willing to admit it.

Still, some might be amenable to having work done for them, if the price was right. Your suggestion has legs. I bet that, at the least it will get them out of the booth quicker, so I can spend more time with other potential customers. Thanks for the suggestion, I have a huge show coming up next week and will give this approach a try....
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: bill t. on February 09, 2013, 02:28:54 pm
Justan, are your photographs Enhanced With Photoshop?  While I understand that means they are not Pure Photographs, could you please tell me exactly how you do that?

When it comes to chasing nuisances out of your booth, the only that beats sibilant spraying is an overt sales pitch.

Back on topic, anybody wishing to find clients for fine art printing need only show images at an art fair.  There are a lot of grandchildren, kitty cats, and doggies in this world needing their smartphone snaps turned into masterpieces, and Instagram only goes so far in that direction.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Mike Guilbault on February 09, 2013, 10:25:22 pm
It's precisely because of 'enthusiasts' asking questions and such that I started offering workshops.  I figured I may as well get paid for my 25 years + experience and knowledge.  And I actually enjoying teaching now. Go figure!
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Justan on February 10, 2013, 11:46:42 am
^Promote your skills at some local shows and I predict you will gain many more clients.

Photo enthusiasts are a HUGE resource at the shows I’ve done. Doesn’t matter if there are a thousand or 50 thousand who attend the shows, lots and lots and lots of people connect with quality work. I talk with scores of people who are interested in getting better results with their camera. The number of people who carry a portfolio on their iphones or similar devices is nothing shy of amazing. For some reason they endlessly come to the photo art booth and all but demand validation of their skills in the form of showing their work while asking endless questions.

There is probably a way bigger market at these shows for people subconsciously seeking instruction and desiring quality printing than there is for art photography. An inexpensive custom print and/or offer for workshop opportunity could work out pretty well.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: BobDavid on February 10, 2013, 01:13:43 pm
I give clients the option: custom printing or printing direct from their files without spending more than a few moments adusting the gamut or a curve before printing. I require a minimum of $75 per order. I am not intersted in wasting time on smaller jobs. I charge $75 an hour for post production in a addition to the cost of paper and ink. I take payment when the order is placed, unless I am familiar with the client. I guarantee my product.

I give workshops every now and then and I offer private tutorials for those interested in learning more about photography and post-processing.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: bill t. on February 10, 2013, 01:46:56 pm
One of the art fairs I participate in keeps after me to do an "artist demonstration" of my techniques at the show.  Will never happen.  Occurs me to that workshops are a great way to bring up a whole new generation of effective competitors.  If you've got a good thing going, don't do workshops.  I think that makes sense.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: neile on February 10, 2013, 02:04:04 pm
My entire (small) printing business is focused on advanced amateurs/prosumers. I have to differentiate myself from two classes of competitors:

1) Costco/Target/Walmart/etc.
2) Other inkjet-based printing services

#1 is easy: I cost more, but the prints are better. Nobody who's ever seen an inkjet print vs. a Costco Noritsu print ever picks the Costco print.

#2 takes a bit more work. I stand apart via the hands-on touch I provide. I build consultation time into my print pricing to help photographers that aren't used to printing get their prints adjusted properly. Usually that's brightness levels, colour balance, and spotting. They keep coming back for more prints because of this personal connection, which they cannot get at larger shops.

Neil
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 10, 2013, 02:58:07 pm
One of the art fairs I participate in keeps after me to do an "artist demonstration" of my techniques at the show.  Will never happen.  Occurs me to that workshops are a great way to bring up a whole new generation of effective competitors.  If you've got a good thing going, don't do workshops.  I think that makes sense.

Exactly!

In addition to photography and LF printing, I'm also a traditional oil painting artist at the professional level.  I've combined things and have a good thing going after decades of learning.  If I taught workshops (and I've been asked) I would effectively provide others with the knowledge to put myself out of business.  They would only require the tools after learning the knowledge and techniques used.  It would be foolish.

Nobody in this world has ever taught me anything - ever.  Everything I know is from hands on trial and error.  How easy it has become to pay a few dollars and learn everything you need to know in just hours as opposed to spending years like I did perfecting my skills and turning it into craftsmanship.

No thanks.  Keep your money and use it to buy tools and materials that you will no doubt waste while learning.  It's part of the process.

I have no plans of mentoring my next competitor.  It's bad enough I have thieves stealing my work trying to reproduce it, which is another reason I don't print on paper unless they're portraits or wedding photos.  Much harder to scan and reproduce an image with the canvas texture :)  Oops, there I go giving away something already.  Damn - enough already.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: RachelleK on February 10, 2013, 04:26:19 pm

Nobody in this world has ever taught me anything - ever.  Everything I know is from hands on trial and error.  How easy it has become to pay a few dollars and learn everything you need to know in just hours as opposed to spending years like I did perfecting my skills and turning it into craftsmanship.


Congratulations!  This is the most amazing quote I have ever read in a forum.  

Did you not ever go to school?  Have you not ever read a book?  Do you not feel any responsibility to give back what you have learned?
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Tony Jay on February 10, 2013, 04:43:35 pm
Nobody in this world has ever taught me anything - ever.  Everything I know is from hands on trial and error.  How easy it has become to pay a few dollars and learn everything you need to know in just hours as opposed to spending years like I did perfecting my skills and turning it into craftsmanship.

Are you sure your name is not Robinson Crusoe.
Ooops, I forgot, he had Man Friday to help him!

(I have read the whole post by the way. It is not credible.)

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 10, 2013, 05:50:31 pm
Congratulations!  This is the most amazing quote I have ever read in a forum.  

Did you not ever go to school?  Have you not ever read a book?  Do you not feel any responsibility to give back what you have learned?

Nope, never went to school.  I'm illiterate   ::)

Yeah I feel so responsible to give back everything I've learned in life cause the next generation is too lazy to learn anything.  You can play your Xbox for endless hours then learn from me in a few minutes how to create a piece of art, or repair your vehicle, etc...  The hard work is done, right?  Let's be lazy now and copy someone else's hard work.  Geez.  I fear for this generation.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 10, 2013, 05:52:21 pm
Are you sure your name is not Robinson Crusoe.
Ooops, I forgot, he had Man Friday to help him!

(I have read the whole post by the way. It is not credible.)

Tony Jay

Never know, that could be my name.  Creating monikers on here so I'm not easily recognized :)
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: BobDavid on February 10, 2013, 06:46:06 pm
Having used Photoshop for 12 years, I have nothing to fear regarding offering workshops, demos, and private instruction. I've got 12 years experience, a background in art, science, color theory, drawing, and the history of photography. All of these ingredients influence what I teach. Many of my workshop attendees hire me to print their photos. Once they realize that r,g,b,c,m,y,k,LAB are available for color correction and that being able to use a pen (as in Wacom tablet) to fill in detail that was lost due to blobs of 0,0,0 data in the original capture, they realize and respect the level of sophistication that I have earned. Being generous with hard-earned knowledge is a great way to acquire business.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Peter Le on February 12, 2013, 01:06:09 am
Exactly!

In addition to photography and LF printing, I'm also a traditional oil painting artist at the professional level.  I've combined things and have a good thing going after decades of learning.  If I taught workshops (and I've been asked) I would effectively provide others with the knowledge to put myself out of business.  They would only require the tools after learning the knowledge and techniques used.  It would be foolish.

Nobody in this world has ever taught me anything - ever.  Everything I know is from hands on trial and error.  How easy it has become to pay a few dollars and learn everything you need to know in just hours as opposed to spending years like I did perfecting my skills and turning it into craftsmanship.

No thanks.  Keep your money and use it to buy tools and materials that you will no doubt waste while learning.  It's part of the process.

I have no plans of mentoring my next competitor.  It's bad enough I have thieves stealing my work trying to reproduce it, which is another reason I don't print on paper unless they're portraits or wedding photos.  Much harder to scan and reproduce an image with the canvas texture :)  Oops, there I go giving away something already.  Damn - enough already.

     The only artists I have ever known that were worried about being copied and refused to teach what they have learned......were well ....not very good at what they did and were probably incapable of teaching it. Not saying this is you.....but it is a observation I have made many times in life....
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: bill t. on February 12, 2013, 02:44:56 am
I have had the pleasure of knowing and even working for a few truly great people in my life.  They were all far to busy to engage in anything like formal teaching.  However, they were for the most part generous about sharing information, and willing to accept input from those below them in the organization.  Teaching at its best is a two way street where everything is on the table.

Anyway, formal workshops and organized instruction in the visual arts aren't much use, and for people with some degree of talent may result in several years of shackled creativity.  Pop quiz...what's the proper Zone for caucasian human skin in sunlight?  If you put up your hand you know what I mean.  What a novice really needs is not a workshop in some specific bit of arcanae, but a general skill at gleaning knowledge and developing their own skills in the light of their particular requirements, and you kids have no idea how lucky you are to have the Internet.

Didn't Ansel make some sort of moderately cynical remark about the folks who attended his Yosemite workshop?  Drew a Google blank just now, but I know it's there somewhere.  Does any of this make sense?

Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: stamper on February 12, 2013, 03:40:14 am
Quote Ken B.

Nobody in this world has ever taught me anything - ever.  Everything I know is from hands on trial and error.  How easy it has become to pay a few dollars and learn everything you need to know in just hours as opposed to spending years like I did perfecting my skills and turning it into craftsmanship.

Unquote

On one hand you state that it took you years to learn but you think that it could be taught in just a few hours?

Must have been a slow learner?  ;D
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Justan on February 12, 2013, 11:39:51 am
Some are very protective of their skills. This is understandable and completely reasonable. It’s a choice.

It is an odd behavioral thing in the age of the internet that some will not only ask that others to reveal anything, but some few will behave in a very childish way and demand and then personally insult those who do not desire not to do so, as has been done here.

I don’t think anyone would suggest that Bill T is not only very forthcoming with information, he’s also gone well out of his way on a countless number of occasions to provide in-depth answers to a questions, and he has contributed a large amount of detailed knowledge to this site. Most would agree that he is one of the best contributors of the site.

As to doing workshops, one has to have the temperament to successfully make this kind of presentation. It is far easier to provide a direct answer to a question than it is to answer the question for 20 workshop students who each don’t have a working basis to understand an answer very well, or sometimes at all.

Take for instance, working with layers in Photoshop. I never cease to be amazed that most beginners do not have any idea how to make a layer in Photoshop, or what to do with it once it’s made. This has to be taught and explained enough so that the recipient ends up being able to duplicate what is being presented to them and then able to make abstract relationships between goals and technical tools. Helping someone learn this can be very trying and time consuming. Not everyone can or wants to do help others do this. But if the student does not understand what a layer is and how to use it, then any of a number of details that rely upon a new layer as a starting point, will be lost.

Again it takes the right temperament to teach and that is why teaching is a specialized calling. The difference between answering a question and providing instruction is the difference between a colleague and a college.

This digression aside, a dominant theme in this thread is one of how to reach out to others, to promote business activity without insulting them, and there have been a variety of useful answers.

Can those of you who have decided that your contribution here is only to insult someone kindly stop doing so, so that the thread will not be further derailed?
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 12, 2013, 12:33:46 pm
     The only artists I have ever known that were worried about being copied and refused to teach what they have learned......were well ....not very good at what they did and were probably incapable of teaching it. Not saying this is you.....but it is a observation I have made many times in life....

It is not my paintings I'm worried about being copied.  I am a professional artist and would be glad to post some images of my work to verify how "good" I am.  As an artist, you either have talent or you don't.  Raw talent can't be taught.  I'm not worried about my copied paintings, which are out there, I have seen a few.

I have in the past taught folks a thing or two and the next thing I know they have set up shop trying to eliminate me from the businesses.  Not only printing, but other areas of business I have been involved in.

On this board I have given advice more than a few times.  This is different, we are all doing the same thing here already.  I'm talking about complete newbies who want nothing more than to learn something quick and set up shop.  I will no longer help anyone around my area to be my direct competitor.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 12, 2013, 12:35:01 pm
Quote Ken B.

Nobody in this world has ever taught me anything - ever.  Everything I know is from hands on trial and error.  How easy it has become to pay a few dollars and learn everything you need to know in just hours as opposed to spending years like I did perfecting my skills and turning it into craftsmanship.

Unquote

On one hand you state that it took you years to learn but you think that it could be taught in just a few hours?

Must have been a slow learner?  ;D



Son, you have no idea.  Just leave it at that.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: enduser on February 12, 2013, 04:54:58 pm
"Close-thread" time?
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Bullfrog on February 12, 2013, 08:38:02 pm
My 2c.

I purchased my first wide format printer just over 3 years ago and in hindsight its cost me thousands (including purchase price, ink, paper) to learn what I have learned in the past 3 years owning it and I've probably barely touched the surface of what others know.   I think I'm the only one on my street with a $2000 stretched canvas digital print hanging in my hallway:-0

 So on one hand, I do understand not wanting to "give it away".  I have toiled and tormented myself on the entire process, including glazing, wrapping, and final packaging.

So - to the op, speaking for myself, to be honest, while I would appreciate your super duper expertise, I'm not the kind of market that wants you to do it for me - I'm the kind of user that wants you to SHOW me how I can do it.   Its not efficiency - its passion.

But, I don't expect knowledge for nothing and I WOULD pay for classes or workshops.  I see some photographers advertising this kind of help on their website and if they were in my area,  I think why not.  They can possibly sell some supplies or equipment as well- and while some people will just come to "steal" their ideas without returning to use their services - so what.  

Having done this photography thing for a while now, I have learned its as much an art, as a science, and while you may explain to me by rote how to do your workflow -  it still requires practice, style, flair and a fair degree of skill and artistic eye to replicate because every image is different.  

I admit I am not self-employed as a photographer or printer - but I am self-employed and have been for many years and I have yet to find myself without competition.  I realize part of selling myself, is being open about what I know (within reason  :D) to my paying clients to develop their trust, and earn their business.

Yes, I've been screwed by a few, and expect you will be too.  It doesn't negate the benefits or the life long partnerships you may develop and if I become so insecure about my abilities that I won't give any advice without money upfront - I think I'm likely on the wrong end of the bell curve anyway.


Edit to add :  Blunt and as unattractive as it may sound, photographer is no long an elite membership.  People today can buy a DSLR for under $1K and get some pretty nice looking prints - or more importantly, THEY are happy with them.  And the printing market seems to be growing - more competitive, less revenue.  I see far more shops in my area than even 3 years ago, and prices are coming down.  Same for framing.

In my humble opinion, I don't see a future in this giclee printing market "as is" beyond 3 more years - I think many will not survive the competition ...so if anyone here can make a living at it, and keep making a living at it, they must be really doing something right.  And if you are one of those people, who the hell cares what I think.


Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Peter Le on February 13, 2013, 12:01:42 am
It is not my paintings I'm worried about being copied.  I am a professional artist and would be glad to post some images of my work to verify how "good" I am.  As an artist, you either have talent or you don't.  Raw talent can't be taught.  I'm not worried about my copied paintings, which are out there, I have seen a few.

I have in the past taught folks a thing or two and the next thing I know they have set up shop trying to eliminate me from the businesses.  Not only printing, but other areas of business I have been involved in.

On this board I have given advice more than a few times.  This is different, we are all doing the same thing here already.  I'm talking about complete newbies who want nothing more than to learn something quick and set up shop.  I will no longer help anyone around my area to be my direct competitor.

      I am not saying you are not good at what you do. I have no idea....I was talking about an observation I have made many times of people that worry about being copied or teaching something they have learned. Copiers or newbies that set up next to you will never really be a threat.....they will always be a few steps behind. They are not innovators or as you say "have raw talent" or they would not be copying nor setting up next to you trying to do what you are already doing. I use them to keep me moving forward.....they remind me I must keep innovating to keep my creative edge. Plus I meet some very interesting people that pick up the knowledge they can from me and us it to move in their own detection. Sometimes helping me see new directions.
       If we just sit still and try to protect what we know the world is going to pass us by no matter how loud we scream.......
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: stamper on February 13, 2013, 04:32:43 am
Quote Ken B.

Nobody in this world has ever taught me anything - ever.  Everything I know is from hands on trial and error.

Unquote

You must have at sometime read books, magazine articles, internet sites or manuals. Listened to tv programs, radio etc etc. Oh did I forget ...... other people. It is impossible for you to have learned everything you know without access to the above choices and other sources. Now a little humility on your part might mean if you haven't accessed any of the above sources then you might learn even more. :-\

Quote

Son, you have no idea.  Just leave it at that.

Unquote

I don't know your age so I won't patronize you with a similar quote. :)
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: stamper on February 13, 2013, 04:39:47 am
"Close-thread" time?


No ..... it is just warming up. ;D
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 13, 2013, 09:53:22 am
No ..... it is just warming up. ;D

Don't know who you think you are, but you can go bugger off anytime.  No need to be an arsehole and troll the board - nobody around here wants to put up with the crap spewing from your mouth.

If you are so narrow-minded to take what I said literally, then that's up to you and I don't really care what you think.  I'm positive the regulars on this forum in the printing section know what I mean when I stated nobody ever taught me anything - referring to printing or any other business/career I've ever had.  But if you get your jollies off by thinking I meant I've never read a book to learn anything then you go right ahead, son.

People like you are the reason I refuse to teach anymore.  Think the world owes you something.

Up until now I haven't seen you in the printing forum, so why don't you leave now and go troll elsewhere?  We would all appreciate that.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: stamper on February 13, 2013, 11:11:14 am
I think the trolling started with you and your know it all attitude. >:(
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 13, 2013, 11:25:59 am
I think the trolling started with you and your know it all attitude. >:(

No, the trolling started when you began flaming.

To be honest, I'm really quite surprised that a 65 year old man such as yourself, Robert Beacon, would show the maturity level of a teenager.  You stated you were just getting warmed up.  You're warming up in the wrong place, Robert!

Now off you go before you get spanked and put to bed  ;D
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: stamper on February 13, 2013, 11:32:57 am
I am not the only one who has commented on your attitude. Your reading skills aren't very good. The warming up comment was aimed at the thread in general and not at yourself.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 13, 2013, 11:57:12 am
I am not the only one who has commented on your attitude. Your reading skills aren't very good. The warming up comment was aimed at the thread in general and not at yourself.

If you or any other troll doesn't like my attitude then don't read my posts!  If you were to get to know me instead of acting juvenile and flaming you would see I possess great knowledge and I am willing to help out.  Due to past experiences (in other fields) I've experienced jerks who want nothing more than to quickly learn what and how I do things and then set up shop across the road from me.  I've stated I will not help someone become my competitor anymore.  There is a difference between that and helping out online where needed, which I often do, both here and elsewhere on the Internet.  I've met several folks in person from this board, mainly while buying and selling equipment, and I'm confident each one would tell you I'm a pleasure to know and deal with.  What I won't put up with, however, is someone that reads between the lines and wants to act juvenile and giggle about it.  It isn't funny, and at your age you should know better!

Robert, please, go spend more time elsewhere.  Learning Photoshop will greatly enhance your images and will be productive time well spent.  The very first photo I saw of yours I knew immediately you needed help with editing.  I'll be glad to show you how to refine your images which would make them candidates for printing.  I get the sense you are hanging around this forum in the printing section to learn how to get your images on paper.  Just ask nicely without being a dick and you might actually get some help!
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Schewe on February 13, 2013, 12:01:07 pm
If you are so narrow-minded to take what I said literally, then that's up to you and I don't really care what you think.

Hum...so, you wrote something; "Nobody in this world has ever taught me anything - ever." and you are shocked that somebody is taking you at your word? So, are you now admitting that somebody somewhere DID teach you something or are you clinging to being a 100% self made man?

As far as attitude in this thread, you've shown plenty of 'tude that hasn't been very useful. Perhaps it is you who should consider their words a bit more carefully. You can't really complain when people throw your own words back at ya and expect to be allowed to get down and dirty with zero repercussions.

And believe when I say I seriously doubt I could learn anything from you-not with your attitude-so the question of you teaching anything to anybody is moot.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 13, 2013, 12:06:09 pm
Hum...so, you wrote something; "Nobody in this world has ever taught me anything - ever." and you are shocked that somebody is taking you at your word? So, are you now admitting that somebody somewhere DID teach you something or are you clinging to being a 100% self made man?

As far as attitude in this thread, you've shown plenty of 'tude that hasn't been very useful. Perhaps it is you who should consider their words a bit more carefully. You can't really complain when people throw your own words back at ya and expect to be allowed to get down and dirty with zero repercussions.

And believe when I say I seriously doubt I could learn anything from you-not with your attitude-so the question of you teaching anything to anybody is moot.

Sorry, I apologize.  I didn't think anyone would be stupid enough to not read between the lines and figure out my statement meant that nobody taught me anything about what I do here.  My sincere apologies for thinking others were bright enough to figure it out.

Mr. Teacher, Jeff Schewe, you my friend could not teach me anything either.  Don't get all hot-headed thinking cause you've wrote a few books and taught a few seminars that you know it all either, bud.  I know a few people who attended your seminars in Toronto and came back and told me all you do is re-write and yap about what anyone in this business already knows.  You are not innovative with your teachings, from what I've been told :)
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Schewe on February 13, 2013, 12:11:43 pm
I know a few people who attended your seminars in Toronto and came back and told me all you do is re-write and yap about what anyone in this business already knows.  You are not innovative with your teachings, from what I've been told :)

Hum...I guess that explains why my books, videos and seminars sell so poorly...I'm not innovative!

I'll work on that, thanks for pointing that out.

I guess this answers the question of whether or not it's stamper or you being the a$$hole, huh?
(did I mention you might want to consider your words more carefully?)
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 13, 2013, 12:15:15 pm
Hum...I guess that explains why my books, videos and seminars sell so poorly...I'm not innovative!

I'll work on that, thanks for pointing that out.

I guess this answers the question of whether or not it's stamper or you being the a$$hole, huh?
(did I mention you might want to consider your words more carefully?)

Oh go write another e-book and list it on Amazon for pennies!  lol

I was just telling you how it is.  Three friends in the printing field attended your seminars/shows/whatever you'd call it in Toronto.  All 3 said you taught nothing they don't already know and it was a waste of time and money and were quite disappointed with you.  Their words, not mine.  I just laughed and told them for a case of beer I could have taught them the same thing in my studio.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Schewe on February 13, 2013, 01:00:17 pm
Oh go write another e-book and list it on Amazon for pennies!  lol

Oh, my ebooks sell for more than pennies...(The Kindle version is listed at $21.99 on Amazon although I would suggest buying it from Peachpit and getting the PDF version as well as EPOB & MOBI versions as a bundle).

As for what your "friends" said, I couldn't care less (really, I couldn't). But with every post you make, you go further down that hole, don't ya? You may be a big fish in a tiny pond (Guelph, ON right?) but on the bigger stage, you're just a guppy.

If you want to have a bit of cred here (saying stamper's images could be improved by you teaching how to edit was a bit much) you might want to offer a bit more proof than your words since you've pretty much proven your words don't mean too much...just saying, if you think you're hot stuff, prove it (don't just say it). My work is out there (I don't hide behind an anonymous screen name), show us your work and let us be the judge.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 13, 2013, 01:07:18 pm
Oh, my ebooks sell for more than pennies...(The Kindle version is listed at $21.99 on Amazon although I would suggest buying it from Peachpit and getting the PDF version as well as EPOB & MOBI versions as a bundle).

As for what your "friends" said, I couldn't care less (really, I couldn't). But with every post you make, you go further down that hole, don't ya? You may be a big fish in a tiny pond (Guelph, ON right?) but on the bigger stage, you're just a guppy.

If you want to have a bit of cred here (saying stamper's images could be improved by you teaching how to edit was a bit much) you might want to offer a bit more proof than your words since you've pretty much proven your words don't mean too much...just saying, if you think you're hot stuff, prove it (don't just say it). My work is out there (I don't hide behind an anonymous screen name), show us your work and let us be the judge.

You can list them for $75 if you want, doesn't mean anyone is buying them! 

So you don't care about those in attendance at your seminars or workshops?  Nice...  I hope Google picks up this thread when someone Googles your name :)

I'm not hiding behind an anonymous name, bud.  I've always used my real name here, and yes, I am from GUELPH!  You know how to read posts that I've stated where I live, am I proud of you!  You should visit... nice city!

My work is out there if you search hard enough.  Heck, I've posted it here before. 

I can slide down the pole as you say.  Do I look concerned?  Your credibility has already been tanked.  Name calling (oh that so hurts) and saying you don't care about those who attend your seminars.

Tsk, tsk! 

Now, unlike you I actually have some work I have to complete.  I don't have all day to sit around typing out e-books hoping some poor soul will buy one.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Peter Le on February 13, 2013, 01:53:49 pm
         Jeff don't go down this road with this guy.....you are better then that. He speaks of Trolls when he is obviously the one that is trolling. He has already shown himself the fool. Beyond this we are just feeding the Troll. We all know when you don't give back karma will eventually even things out ....
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: KenBabcock on February 13, 2013, 01:59:16 pm
Peter...


BITE ME!  Go and wish karma on me now. 

I don't recall Jeff being invited to this party anyway.  He's sticking his big nose where it doesn't belong.

Unfortunately I really have to go now.  Can't play with the fools anymore.

Doubt I'll be back.  Either be banned or delete my account later.  Who cares either way?  Certainly not me.

Goodbye!
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: elolaugesen on February 13, 2013, 02:18:24 pm
Today we are at the same point that computing came to some years ago as the end users started to use PC's and fully integrated tools.  Now cameras are intelligent(?) and tools like lightroom/Aperture have automated the development and printing.  There are simple tools to process images and the difference in output quality is sometimes negible.  Many of you talk about looking at art/photos from a distance and do not need the higher pixal rate.  Therefore the average photographer will not really see the difference between a print by a professional with years of experience and his own prints from a less expensive printer.
Many buyers of art hang work in rooms where you cannot see the difference anyway.  They bought it because they have been and seen the mountain,river etc. , knew someone, uncle painted it,  etc etc......
We have come to a point where the technology changed the old ways of the dark room, and now the camera...
I worked in Montreal, had an art gallery and more outside Toronto, an art gallery in the the uk and life keeps changing for my artist wife/partner and myself.
In the meantime we keep learning, moving on and picking up knowledge from the sponsors of this site and others while working with artists and helping them to produce products that they can sell (yet make some money for ourselves).  The world moves on and we must all change with the times.
One more thing.   The more you help other people do their job better .. The more will come to you because they want to learn too.   Our jobs and lives keep moving on and on...
Best to you all.            DO NO CLOSE YOUR EYES AND EARS TO THE WORLD OR THIS SITE.  

will be in Toronto in a few months and will visit some of the galleries including some artist friends etc...


Cheers elo
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Schewe on February 13, 2013, 02:22:03 pm
So you don't care about those in attendance at your seminars or workshops?

No, I don't care what YOU say they said...it's not like what you have to say is particularly meaningful-as you've already proven in this thread, we shouldn't take you at your word.
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Schewe on February 13, 2013, 02:24:51 pm
Doubt I'll be back.  Either be banned or delete my account later.  Who cares either way?  Certainly not me.

Goodbye!

Promise?

(we'll see if his words are true now :~)
Title: Re: Handling amature professional photographer clients for printing
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on February 13, 2013, 02:30:21 pm
Enough of this nonsense. Topic closed.

Ken B. has been banned.
He threatens by PM that he will be back - please notify Admin if he shows up again under a different name and we'll play Whack-a-Mole.