Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: eronald on January 31, 2013, 04:05:52 am

Title: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on January 31, 2013, 04:05:52 am
I just had a case of the midnite munchies, and went to the mall, le Drugstore Etoile, and  there was  this glossy A4 hobby magazine called SmartPhoto (http://www.journaux.fr/smart-photo_high-tech_sciences-et-techniques_165127.html)

AND IT IS ALL DONE WITH CELLPHONES.

There is a lot of real "work" eg. full page well lit and retouched mono portraits,  the usual instagram stuff, and also some quick but informative equipment reviews eg. a double page spread with strips of the same Seine riverview image across the spread done with various iPhones that shows how far we've come.

Quality-wise, the printed work is actually pretty much as good as the 35mm stuff when I was a kid.

The images are photoshopped, but then we photoshop our images too :)

Ok, most of this stuff would do better left at quarter-page but that went for 35mm too, when I was a kid.

From the commercial point of view, I think people in photojournalism and maybe even stock are going to very much feel they are fighting a battle with these kids. It's the 35mm story all over again, spontaneity, immediacy and access fight it out with set-piece quality; however the novelty today is the ability of software to act as an equalizer - look at the iPhone 5 panoramas.

Edmund

Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Gel on January 31, 2013, 04:30:45 am
Because it's a phone, not a camera.

All this mag shows is what a lot of us already know, it's more about the person behind the instrument than the instrument itself.

But they're incredibly limited, ask again in 10 years.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on January 31, 2013, 06:14:54 am
Because it's a phone, not a camera.

All this mag shows is what a lot of us already know, it's more about the person behind the instrument than the instrument itself.

But they're incredibly limited, ask again in 10 years.



Were I old enough, I'd probably have heard folks defend 8"x10" in the same way when Leica woke up. However, you are also right: they are terribly limited, even as basically as in allowing you to see what you are doing in sunshine. (With climate change, that might come to determine their usability on the grounds of which continent you dwell upon, so perhaps not all is lost.) What's as bad if not worse, at least with my Samsung Galaxy Ace, is the delay between pressing the clicker and the thing doing anything: you simply couldn't shoot people genuinely à la street, even if you felt that you wanted to. The thing slowly hunts for focus, goes blank and then eventually lets you see what you got - or didn't get, depending on whether you shot a statue or a person. Agreed, many statues are more appealing, but that's something else, and even a possible distraction and diversion of the thread.

Positive side? They are always in your pocket and available. Same as a handkerchief, even if only of paper. Perhaps not quite as relevant as statues, but therein you can find the decline and fall of the Irish Linen industry: paper towels and tissues. The inexorable march of "progress".

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Craig Lamson on January 31, 2013, 08:09:06 am


Were I old enough, I'd probably have heard folks defend 8"x10" in the same way when Leica woke up. However, you are also right: they are terribly limited, even as basically as in allowing you to see what you are doing in sunshine. (With climate change, that might come to determine their usability on the grounds of which continent you dwell upon, so perhaps not all is lost.) What's as bad if not worse, at least with my Samsung Galaxy Ace, is the delay between pressing the clicker and the thing doing anything: you simply couldn't shoot people genuinely à la street, even if you felt that you wanted to. The thing slowly hunts for focus, goes blank and then eventually lets you see what you got - or didn't get, depending on whether you shot a statue or a person. Agreed, many statues are more appealing, but that's something else, and even a possible distraction and diversion of the thread.

Positive side? They are always in your pocket and available. Same as a handkerchief, even if only of paper. Perhaps not quite as relevant as statues, but therein you can find the decline and fall of the Irish Linen industry: paper towels and tissues. The inexorable march of "progress".

Rob C

So I've been on vacation for a week or so and I have a nice Oly OMD kit  with me.  I've taken at most 10 photos with it.  The rest are iphone 5 photos. Not that I'm much on taking photos while I'm on vacation, but the phone is perfect for the easy snaps one takes of family and fun.  Its always in my pocket, I'm not making prints, and it works.  Beside you can post it to facebook :) 

Really, its no big deal and quite frankly I'm not on vacation TO make images, I'm on vacation to get AWAY from making images. :)
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Willow Photography on January 31, 2013, 09:08:38 am
Why is everything in the MFDB threads suddenly??

Why are we talking about smartphones here?

Michael, can you start a new department for alternative equipment or something?
And maybe one more for all the people who are most interested in comparing DSLR to MFDB
and talking about theory and science.

When I log on to this MFDB threads I expect to read about MFDB.

Now it is not only the endless talk about D800 as the only camera worth having ( and I have one .-) ),
but also smartphones?!!!

Cant you people read the title of this thread?

Show some respect for the forum and the people using it!

Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on January 31, 2013, 10:12:50 am
Why is everything in the MFDB threads suddenly??

Why are we talking about smartphones here?

Michael, can you start a new department for alternative equipment or something?
And maybe one more for all the people who are most interested in comparing DSLR to MFDB
and talking about theory and science.

When I log on to this MFDB threads I expect to read about MFDB.

Now it is not only the endless talk about D800 as the only camera worth having ( and I have one .-) ),
but also smartphones?!!!

Cant you people read the title of this thread?

Show some respect for the forum and the people using it!



Indeed.

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jeremypayne on January 31, 2013, 10:17:09 am
Cant you people read the title of this thread?

With all due respect ... it would appear you are the one who failed to read the title of this thread ... ::)
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Willow Photography on January 31, 2013, 10:27:12 am
What a helpful and informative comment.
Look further up Jeremy?

This is Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs - and Large sensor Photography

It doesnt help then to name the thread cellphone..........
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 31, 2013, 10:29:58 am
...

When I log on to this MFDB threads I expect to read about MFDB.

...

Cant you people read the title of this thread?

Show some respect for the forum and the people using it!

+1
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jeremypayne on January 31, 2013, 10:35:53 am
What a helpful and informative comment.

Is it really helpful and informative to vocally get your panties in a bunch because someone posted a thread about cellphones in what you consider to be the "wrong" sub-forum?

Start your own thread ... in the proper sub-forum, of course ... because your off-topic rant is just as inconsiderate as any perceived party foul on Edmund's part ...  ;D
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Willow Photography on January 31, 2013, 10:50:54 am
My panties are quit ok  ;D.

If this was one lonely incident, I wouldnt say a word .
Or 5 or 10th incident.

But it is not. Its a trend.

And this is not an off-topic rant.
It is very much on topic. Topic about respecting the forum and the users.
If you cannot see that, you havent paid very much attention to what is going on here lately.
Or you are one of the few that doesnt care or respect.



Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: PeterAit on January 31, 2013, 10:53:18 am
Why not use a cell phone? Because someone might call and annoy me.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jeremypayne on January 31, 2013, 11:07:59 am
Quality-wise, the printed work is actually pretty much as good as the 35mm stuff when I was a kid.

iPhone 5 makes GREAT prints ... I haven't tried anything bigger than US-Letter, but at that size they look terrific.

I use the Camera+ app.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Willow Photography on January 31, 2013, 11:15:31 am
Why do I bother  ;D
I... and p........ are all over the internet.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: FredBGG on January 31, 2013, 12:17:06 pm
Why not use a cell phone? Because someone might call and annoy me.

Now that's funny!
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on January 31, 2013, 12:58:59 pm
Hi,

I have an iPhone 4S as job phone. I don't really use it for picture taking. A camera I also have is a Canon Digital Elph. I have used the Canon for some pictures and sometimes I cannot tell if an image was taken with a DSLR or the Elph. Another camera I also happen to have is the Sony RX100. The RX-100 I have used a lot.

Now, I am pretty sure that iPhone cameras are good enough to tell a story. I guess that phone cameras may dominate the "f/8 and be there" situation, simply by being there and being good enough. Nokia managed to put 41 MPixels of decent quality in a cell phone. The Nokia is good enough to impress Stefan Steib, the man behind the Hartblei Hcam and many other things.

The way I see things are moving upscale. Six MP digital has replaced 135 Velvia. At 16 MP digital replaced Velvia 120. With P45 quite a few 4x5" users switched to digital.

I guess that phone camera technology will make inroads in low end digital photography.

Getting back to my RX-100. It has not replaced my DSLRs but complemented them well. When the planets are well aligned, it can approach DSLR quality and it is decent at high ISO.

My take is that phone cameras are pushing point and shoot, while high end point and shoots push APS-C. Mirrorless pushes DSLR. With DSLRs the situation is a bit different. There are two trends Canon moving in the direction of very capable high ISO cameras. Nikon choose to go for high resolution/high DR  with the D800 and into High ISO/High speed arean with the D4. More than anything else the D800 is pushing into low end digital.

Best regards
Erik
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Willow Photography on January 31, 2013, 02:08:32 pm
I thought D800 was pushing into high end digital  ;D
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: BlasR on January 31, 2013, 03:10:01 pm
Erik,

keep shooting with your iphone ,but check your eyes, I am NOT telling U, to check it your self, but go to a Doctor to check it for U..I got Iphone too, but no way the photo will no be different from my little $433 dollars non name camera I found in the garage sale..Oh I was leaving in CA, in I saw the sign saying GARAGE SALE, I ask my wife, how they can sale just the garage, how they park, if they sale it..I should be a lawyer in sue anyone the sale junk in call it garage sale!

Willow, I hope U don't have a heart attack...Relax, don't read if you do NOT agree..We have bigger problem now, I work to support those the don't want to work.

So relax....
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on January 31, 2013, 03:19:50 pm
Hi,

I am pretty much thinking about the London subway explosions. They posted some phone camera footage. That was authentic material and no one asked about MPixels.

Cell phone cameras tend to be where the action is, when it happens.

The guy who filmed the Kennedy shooting on super 8 got famous, for an image that you barely could see.

Being there matters, a lot.

Best regards
Erik

Erik,

keep shooting with your iphone ,but check your eyes, I am NOT telling U, to check it your self, but go to a Doctor to check it for U..I got Iphone too, but no way the photo will no be different from my little $433 dollars non name camera I found in the garage sale..Oh I was leaving in CA, in I saw the sign saying GARAGE SALE, I ask my wife, how they can sale just the garage, how they park, if they sale it..I should be a lawyer in sue anyone the sale junk in call it garage sale!

Willow, I hope U don't have a heart attack...Relax, don't read if you do NOT agree..We have bigger problem now, I work to support those the don't want to work.

So relax....
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Willow Photography on January 31, 2013, 05:11:56 pm
Erik,

keep shooting with your iphone ,but check your eyes, I am NOT telling U, to check it your self, but go to a Doctor to check it for U..I got Iphone too, but no way the photo will no be different from my little $433 dollars non name camera I found in the garage sale..Oh I was leaving in CA, in I saw the sign saying GARAGE SALE, I ask my wife, how they can sale just the garage, how they park, if they sale it..I should be a lawyer in sue anyone the sale junk in call it garage sale!

Willow, I hope U don't have a heart attack...Relax, don't read if you do NOT agree..We have bigger problem now, I work to support those the don't want to work.

So relax....



 :D
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on January 31, 2013, 05:31:39 pm
Just to make clear,

I don't use my phone camera. I am a software developer and a nuclear reactor physics engineer but I never have sent an MMS. Cell phones I use for phone calls.

Erik


Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on January 31, 2013, 07:10:13 pm
Willow,

 It's about the people here - in some electronic way we know each other, and in fact often knew each other from a certain other forum. Incidentally, many of us own a lot of equipment and happen to shoot MF at times, but we mostly know how to use our equipment by now, so discussions have a tendency to deal with whatever is the novelty trend of the moment, eg.  stitching, supplying video to the client, using 35mm instead of MF where we would have used MF in film, using 35mm instead of MF digital, finding web galleries etc.

So I am sorry to have caused you a moment's worry about something out of place. My thread should have been entitled "What do you guys with MF and LF experience think about complementing your heavy equipment with a cellphone". Would that have helped?

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Schewe on January 31, 2013, 07:18:44 pm
So I am sorry to have caused you a moment's worry about something out of place. My thread should have been entitled "What do you guys with MF and LF experience think about complementing your heavy equipment with a cellphone". Would that have helped?

One funny story from a recent PODUS workshop in the Palouse in Washington was that many of the guys with IQ 180's with Alpas or Phase One 645 cameras tended to stick their cameras on tripods and while waiting for the light tended to shot a lot of snapshots with their iPhones. One reason was to have some shots with GPS settings that could then be added to their IQ 180 shots. Handy since the MFDBs don't have GPS. And one one of the recent workshops I went to with Alain Briot (the Fine Art Photo Summit in Zion) two of my fav shots were a couple of iPhone 5 panos I shot of all the workshop attendees lined up for sunrise and then sunset.

Also, some guys with Alpas like to use an iPhone as an Alpa electronic viewfinder...so it seems even MFDB users might find a camera phone useful.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Willow Photography on January 31, 2013, 07:35:27 pm
Willow,

 It's about the people here - in some electronic way we know each other, and in fact often knew each other from a certain other forum. Incidentally, many of us own a lot of equipment and happen to shoot MF at times, but we mostly know how to use our equipment by now, so discussions have a tendency to deal with whatever is the novelty trend of the moment, eg.  stitching, supplying video to the client, using 35mm instead of MF where we would have used MF in film, using 35mm instead of MF digital, finding web galleries etc.

So I am sorry to have caused you a moment's worry about something out of place. My thread should have been entitled "What do you guys with MF and LF experience think about complementing your heavy equipment with a cellphone". Would that have helped?

Edmund


Edmund, I have been posting and reading this forums almost as long as you have, so I pretty much
know who is who on this forums.

As I said before, it is not your post particularly that bothers me. Its the trend that its too many scientists here
and too few photographers.
I understand that you like to hang out in the MFDB sections.
This is where the good stuff is  ;).

Dont mind me. I will try to find a more photographer oriented forum.  8)
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: tho_mas on January 31, 2013, 08:02:53 pm
Its the trend that its too many scientists here
and too few photographers.
do you know this one: http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.de/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html
I like it. particularly the comments about William Eggleston and Bill Brandt...

Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: JV on January 31, 2013, 08:17:19 pm
do you know this one: http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.de/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html
I like it. particularly the comments about William Eggleston and Bill Brandt...

along the same lines on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrerabelo/70458366
only revealing the true author of the picture after voting...
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on January 31, 2013, 08:42:11 pm
Jeff,

The iPhone panoramas are indeed pretty astonishing. For myself, I'm also amazed how fast the newest phones are, and how well the screens allow you to compose, and the tech tricks they let you do. I have the 645 app on the phone, and it lets me lock focus and exposure markers to different points on the screen, something that sure would have helped me with past catalogue work on a big cam. In fact, I see no reason why an iPhone app couldn't provide these facilities when used as a finder for an SLR.

At Photokina, I was told two things by the CEO of a well known unnamed imaging company:
- Cellphones are basically driving sensor design now; in his point of view cameras just get the trickle-down.
- Apple is gobbling up imaging guys, sensor designers and even lens people. In his words "it's like there is a highway leading to Apple". Whether Apple will or will not announce a connected point and shoot in addition to the sophisticated 5-lens camera in the iPhone remains to be seen.



Edmund


One funny story from a recent PODUS workshop in the Palouse in Washington was that many of the guys with IQ 180's with Alpas or Phase One 645 cameras tended to stick their cameras on tripods and while waiting for the light tended to shot a lot of snapshots with their iPhones. One reason was to have some shots with GPS settings that could then be added to their IQ 180 shots. Handy since the MFDBs don't have GPS. And one one of the recent workshops I went to with Alain Briot (the Fine Art Photo Summit in Zion) two of my fav shots were a couple of iPhone 5 panos I shot of all the workshop attendees lined up for sunrise and then sunset.

Also, some guys with Alpas like to use an iPhone as an Alpa electronic viewfinder...so it seems even MFDB users might find a camera phone useful.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Dustbak on February 01, 2013, 05:46:44 am
Yeah, though I think I understand the irritated reaction towards this thread and its starter considering the number of the blablabalblabla vs MF threads that have shown up here over the years. I don't believe the intention of starting it was the same as the others.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: BlasR on February 01, 2013, 07:17:02 am
Jeff,

What are your problems with HASSELBLAD?  I have GPS on my Hasselblad, so apologize for saying MFDB don't have it..keep  shotting with your iphone..so now even pano with it? WTF!

U know the CA have garage sale, MA have yard sale..so if U buy a garage in CA in the yard in MA u have the land to build..I wish I can sue, they selling garage in yard in its no truth..They sale junk.  So now, 50% are waiting for the GOB give free cash free food,they have free phone, its iphone they R getting?  no one  want to work anymore,,woth all the free things..OH LORD..I think I will be like a lion eating my own kids one day.

Apologize to Hasselblad...
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 01, 2013, 08:09:14 am
Hello BlasR,

Jeff is instructing on PODAS workshops. That is Phase One.

He says the MFDB doesn't have GPS, that means the MFDB at workshop and not all MFDBs.  Now, the GPS is that in your Hasselblad body, or in the back? MFDB is the digital back. The camera is called an MF SLR (in case of Hasselblad). The back is the stuff behind the camera body.

Nice for you to have GPS in your Hasselblad, but Jeff technically talks about Phase One Digital Medium Format Backs.

So I don't think Jeff needs to excuse anyone.

Best regards
Erik

Jeff,

What are your problems with HASSELBLAD?  I have GPS on my Hasselblad, so apologize for saying MFDB don't have it..keep  shotting with your iphone..so now even pano with it? WTF!

U know the CA have garage sale, MA have yard sale..so if U buy a garage in CA in the yard in MA u have the land to build..I wish I can sue, they selling garage in yard in its no truth..They sale junk.  So now, 50% are waiting for the GOB give free cash free food,they have free phone, its iphone they R getting?  no one  want to work anymore,,woth all the free things..OH LORD..I think I will be like a lion eating my own kids one day.

Apologize to Hasselblad...
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Schewe on February 01, 2013, 11:46:12 am
I have GPS on my Hasselblad, so apologize for saying MFDB don't have it..keep  shotting with your iphone..so now even pano with it? WTF!

You have GPS built in to your camera or do you have an external GPS receiver? Does Alpa offer built in GPS? Do Hasselblad or Phase One camera backs have built in GPS?

I guess you failed to get the gist of my post...that MFDB owners have found uses for using iPhones either as a external GPS recorder or as an electronic view finder...
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: BlasR on February 01, 2013, 12:11:00 pm
Ok, Ok both of you.

Sorry, See, I said sorry.  Still i have my little device to know the location, in its worthless.


What about taking pano with a ipone?  are those photos are the one they are selling in groupon?
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jeremypayne on February 01, 2013, 12:13:03 pm
What about taking pano with a ipone? 

You must be too busy drinking and fighting off freeloaders to have noticed that the iPhone 5 has a very popular and effective panorama feature.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtm4ySJQPOc
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: BlasR on February 01, 2013, 02:26:49 pm
SO if I say cheeseeee i can do that?  the your president giving the iphone 5?  I have 4...if I get 5 i have to pay more tax, to give those the don't want to work.

I am NOT fighting at all, if i sale my camera i have to pay tax, if i buy a camera i have to pay taxes as well.  See I just complaining about what I have to pay for those the don't want to work.

but Jeff is from Chicago, so, he don't care. he do not like tea.Anyway, my phone do not understand me if i say cheese, tell me please tell me again, BTW i like her voice!

I need a glass of wine before i sell my kids!!
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Stefan.Steib on February 01, 2013, 07:10:46 pm
I have started using a Nokia N808 recently and this "thing" is driving me crazy.
It has a program called Camera Pro where I can use the full 41,5 Mpix, when I scale this down to around 20-25Mpix it beats my 5dMK2 hands down.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/8409012445/in/photostream

I think we have passed the point where this has  to be taken for serious now

If a 22 Mpix P25+ is Medium format, this is similar in the results. So.............

Regards
Stefan
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: EricWHiss on February 01, 2013, 07:19:35 pm
I've got an N808 too.  Quite amazing potential and it has a real flash too, not just and LED.   I haven't tried camera pro yet but should.   I have been frustrated by the lack of control of the shutter speed.

Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 01, 2013, 07:25:01 pm
I have taken the liberty of making a crop from the largest size of Stefan's posted  image. It is frightening how sharp this is . As Stefan says, if this is a cellphone, and a P25 is a MFdb, then the phone beats the db.
I have started using a Nokia N808 recently and this "thing" is driving me crazy.
It has a program called Camera Pro where I can use the full 41,5 Mpix, when I scale this down to around 20-25Mpix it beats my 5dMK2 hands down.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/8409012445/in/photostream

I think we have passed the point where this has  to be taken for serious now

If a 22 Mpix P25+ is Medium format, this is similar in the results. So.............

Regards
Stefan
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Stefan.Steib on February 01, 2013, 07:26:24 pm
Of course this is limited, but it´s in my pocket - always. and I get stuff that I wouldn´t shoot otherwise.
It´s also pretty much wideangle at full res (about 26mm as 35mm equivalent).
Today I walked around Westminster/London and even though i had my DSLR in my Backpack I decided to do
all the shots with the Nokia. I am starting to getting used to it.

Stefan
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jjj on February 01, 2013, 11:31:19 pm
That is very impressive quality from such a small package Stefan.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: EricWHiss on February 02, 2013, 12:53:53 am
Yes, the Nokia 808 can function as just a smart 'camera' instead of smart phone since it has so much camera goodness in it including a dedicated button on the side for the camera.   But as a phone it also has some amazing features - being able to brodcast your music to a fm station you select is cool and the sound quality from the phone is on par with the camera - very high!
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jerome_m on February 02, 2013, 03:36:34 am
I have taken the liberty of making a crop from the largest size of Stefan's posted  image. It is frightening how sharp this is . As Stefan says, if this is a cellphone, and a P25 is a MFdb, then the phone beats the db.

 ??? ??? ???

I had a look at the full resolution here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/8409012445/sizes/o/in/photostream/). While the results are impressive for a phone, there are nowhere close to SLR quality. There is noise all over the sky, the mountains in the distance look like watercolor painting  and there is chromatic aberration on every flag pole.

I find the picture quite illustrative of the problems caused by reducing sensor size, actually.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: bcooter on February 02, 2013, 04:10:07 am
I looked at that phone.  Have a friend in Paris that shot it for a fashion spread.  With enough retouching it looked ok.

Not to knock anybody, but it's shitty phone, out of date operating system, shitty camera and for the effort of having to carry something so strange and lumpy you can buy a small Sony camera, a good I phone and actually have two workable devices.

I know, I know we always have a phone on us, not always a camera and I'm not a photojournalist, don't shoot hardly any street photographs, but if I'm serious about making a photograph I'll take a camera, if I'm serious about using a smart phone for e-mail, text, web, phone and data bases I'll either use an Iphone or a Samsung.

Now someday we may have a phone that shoots movies like an Arriflex, stills like a IQ 180, but until then I'd carry two lumps in my pockets.  (yes I know the lump thing will open up a lot of replies).

IMO

BC
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 02, 2013, 05:00:49 am
Hi,

I'd think that there is an advantage to size. Bigger can be better. To a certain limit, size can be compensated by engineering. Like better lenses, higher sensor resolution. The Nokia phone is an example of this. On the other hand, I actually think that my RX100 can make image of at least the same quality. I may be wrong. It is probably not much larger than the Nokia phone, shoots raw and has a zoom. I shot a comparison of my RX-100 with my Alpha 900. Camera on RRS 3 series tripod, Arca 4D head, looked at bit funny. I would say that Alpha 900 probably had a small edge (at actual pixels). Just to point out, this was not a test. At least my RX-100 has bad sharpness off axis in the long end.

Anyway, a camera in the hand will make better images than any camera parked in the trunk of a car 500 m away, or sitting on bookshelf in Tokio.

I think it's correct to say that small sensors are driving developments. Surveillance cameras -> cell phones -> P&S -> advanced P&S -> 4/3 and APS/C -> Full frame. Right now development stops at full frame.

Three interesting developments are:

- Shrinking design rules. Canon sensors are made with 0.5 micron rules, new CMOSIS sensor for Leica 0.018 micron rules (if I recall correctly). Shrinking rules reduce size of components not distributing the image, thus increasing fill factors.

- Shared pixels. Two or more pixels share some of the electronics. Increases fill factor.

- BackSide Illuminated sensors. Increases fill factor and works better large beam inclinations.

All these technologies are introduced and small sensors and migrates to larger sizes.

Best regards
Erik


I looked at that phone.  Have a friend in Paris that shot it for a fashion spread.  With enough retouching it looked ok.

Not to knock anybody, but it's shitty phone, out of date operating system, shitty camera and for the effort of having to carry something so strange and lumpy you can buy a small Sony camera, a good I phone and actually have two workable devices.

I know, I know we always have a phone on us, not always a camera and I'm not a photojournalist, don't shoot hardly any street photographs, but if I'm serious about making a photograph I'll take a camera, if I'm serious about using a smart phone for e-mail, text, web, phone and data bases I'll either use an Iphone or a Samsung.

Now someday we may have a phone that shoots movies like an Arriflex, stills like a IQ 180, but until then I'd carry two lumps in my pockets.  (yes I know the lump thing will open up a lot of replies).

IMO

BC
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 02, 2013, 11:35:20 am
I looked at that phone.  Have a friend in Paris that shot it for a fashion spread.  With enough retouching it looked ok.

BC

Reminds me of what people used to say about 35mm.

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 02, 2013, 11:44:02 am
Speed Graphic rules! Doesn't it?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Graphic

Best regards
Erik

Reminds me of what people used to say about 35mm.

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: EricWHiss on February 02, 2013, 10:42:24 pm

1st, the n808 does some things a dedicated pocket came can't - huge DOF even close up, and you can e-mail and text images straight from it, or upload them to facebook or flickr.  Try that with the Sony.  I never said it would be as good as a P25 or 5d2 but I am impressed.  It absolutely eats the iphone in low light for example.

2nd, I'm so over the iphone.  I'm done with it.  Even the nokia 808 has swype and a good map function. You can download the maps on the nokia so that you don't need to have good signal - you know when you are out of coverage trying to find a remote location what is the iphone going to do for you? 

3rd the n808 gets better reception than the iphone and has better sound quality.   It's a better phone in so many ways except for the symbian OS.  But in fact I found most of everything I used on my iPhone.   

I got mine for a bit over $500 on amazon and i don't have to pay any contract fee's so its actually quite a bit cheaper than the iphone was monthly.

Not defending it, cause I also purchased a Samsung Note 2 at the same time.  I tried all three and decided to keep both the nokia and the note. I like the big screen of the note for reading news and stuff and it also has swype that works.   I do not miss my iphone for anything.



Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Stefan.Steib on February 03, 2013, 01:29:31 pm
Done some more N808 stuff the last days in London.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/8441098271/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/8441888414/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/8442029374/sizes/o/in/photostream/

It is fun. For me that´s enough. A freedom of not having to think "now I will do something serious" and carry equipment.

Regards
Stefan
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 03, 2013, 01:39:05 pm
35mm
Polariod
Holga
Disk
APS (you remember it was a film format first)
16mm
Minox
compact digital
m4/3
and now cell phones

When do we actually start talking about something new in photography?
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jjj on February 03, 2013, 01:45:19 pm
Done some more N808 stuff the last days in London.
It is fun. For me that´s enough. A freedom of not having to think "now I will do something serious" and carry equipment.
Well said. Fun is something that is all too often forgotten when people start pixel peeping.
[My bolding]
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: FredBGG on February 03, 2013, 01:51:23 pm
Cell phones are becoming quite amazing, but the main problem I have with them from a photography point of view is the lack of dynamic range.

No pixel peeping needed to see the drawback of low dynamic range.... all you need is a white and a black dog in California sunshine ;)
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 03, 2013, 02:23:07 pm
Done some more N808 stuff the last days in London.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/8441098271/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/8441888414/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hartblei/8442029374/sizes/o/in/photostream/

It is fun. For me that´s enough. A freedom of not having to think "now I will do something serious" and carry equipment.

Regards
Stefan

The first of Stefan's images would make a more saleable A3 print than most of the pictures I have shot in my life, technically as well as artistically. And if you look at the photo magazines of the 60s and 70s you see a lot of printed stuff that was not up to this technical quality and still first rate artistically.

Attached is my own image shot through the Leica S area at Photokina. My feeling from what I'm seeing these days is that if Apple wanted to make a $1200 camera instead of a $800 iPhone (!), the resulting combination of software and hardware would outstrip just about everything out there if not in quality, at least in practical applicability. People here forget that the cheap compact cameras which they affect to despise cost much less than iPhone or iPad, before subsidy.

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on February 03, 2013, 02:29:12 pm
Cell phones are becoming quite amazing, but the main problem I have with them from a photography point of view is the lack of dynamic range.

No pixel peeping needed to see the drawback of low dynamic range.... all you need is a white and a black dog in California sunshine ;)


Shucks, Fred, just get a black and white one instead: problem solved!

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: bcooter on February 03, 2013, 03:05:02 pm
Well said. Fun is something that is all too often forgotten when people start pixel peeping.
[My bolding]

Stefan's photographs are pretty.  Only he knows if a different camera would have changed anything and really, it's only up to him to judge.

My point is until a cell phone reaches the use of something like a RX100 I don't see the point, other than a lot of people just won't carry a camera.

We're all different, but I've never taken a cell phone image in my life where I didn't wish I had a better camera in my hands.

IMO

BC

Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Stefan.Steib on February 03, 2013, 03:23:07 pm
BC -
the frightening part is that even if you compare the Nokia to a D800 it can hold up pretty well.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studiocomparefullscreen.asp#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=nokia_pureview808&masterSample=2012-07-20-0457&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=nokia_pureview808&slot0Sample=2012-07-20-0457&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=nokia_pureview808&slot1Sample=2012-07-26-0596&slot2Camera=nikon_d800&slot2Sample=dsc_8318&slot3Camera=nikon_v1&slot3Sample=dsc_0304&x=0.001756440281030445&y=0.004189944134078212

even if the samples on DPreview are not actually shot very precisely and they probably did only use the standard camera app and res(I use Camera Pro and the full 41,5 Mpix the sample is 36 Mpix) you can use photoshop to make a better matched image and then it really gets crazy. Of course the Nikon has a much better overall noise dynamic range and color clarity, but once you scale both down 50% the distance will diminish visually a lot. And this "thing" is always there. A DSLR is probably not. I have now found that even if I wait for something, or have slight piece of spare time passing by somewhere, I can start taking images for 5 or 10 minutes just use what I actually see. THAT is the biggest change.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 03, 2013, 03:25:45 pm
Hi,

I think that cell phones are there when it happens. We see a lot of footage from cell phones and it will come more. The Nokia phone has a larger sensor than cell phone cameras usually have. Cell phones have also new technology, like BSI (Back Side Illumination). I presume cell phones will get better, but there is always an advantage to size which you cannot compensate with technology alone. For instance, I'm pretty sure that an IQ180 has more detail than any APS-C or full frame. I'm also certain that the IQ180 has smoother medium grays than any full frame or APS-C, at base ISO. Those advantages come from size and cannot be compensated by technology. Rendition of shadow detail is another area where great progress has been made on CMOS sensors, with CCDs being on a much slower development curve.

The other issue is being good enough. Cell phones are perhaps good enough. I'm pretty sure that a decent cell phone today can make better images than a Leica with Tri-X 20 years ago. A Leica with Technical Pan is another thing. I'm pretty sure a Leica with Technical Pan would make images of higher quality than a Hasselblad with Tri-X, but Leicas were probably seldom used with Technical Pan. Many of the most well known images were made with Leicas and Tri-X.

Demands also change, todays cameras have clean images at perhaps 6400ISO, unheard of in film days.

Times are changing, and difficult to foresee the future is.

Best regards
Erik


Stefan's photographs are pretty.  Only he knows if a different camera would have changed anything and really, it's only up to him to judge.

My point is until a cell phone reaches the use of something like a RX100 I don't see the point, other than a lot of people just won't carry a camera.

We're all different, but I've never taken a cell phone image in my life where I didn't wish I had a better camera in my hands.

IMO

BC


Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: 32BT on February 03, 2013, 03:29:01 pm
BC -
the frightening part is that even if you compare the Nokia to a D800 it can hold up pretty well.

That's what we have been saying all that time. Compared to a MFDB the D800 really is no better than a cellphone.

 8) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Stefan.Steib on February 03, 2013, 03:36:56 pm
Relax - nobody says the Nokia does better stuff than the IQ180 or a Credo 80.
I hope so - do have an IQ180 for the next time to work with.   :)
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: bcooter on February 03, 2013, 03:41:12 pm
Stefan,

I get it, but don't get it in a way.

I don't do walk around photography, but see some nice things sometimes.  Yesterday was shooting some background plates of the sky and sun going down with my Leica M8 and the 24mm I rarely take off.

I turned around to leave and saw the most beautiful view of downtown.  I tried to make it work but with the 24 (or 35mm if you factor in the crop), it just didn't work, not close.

Had I owned that little Sony I could have shot something pretty, though don't know what I would have done with it.

Anyway, I'm not an apple fanatic but I have about a trillion of their devices and I'm kind of stuck in their system, so any other phone would just be a camera to me, not a phone so I might as well carry a small camera.

IMO

BC
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 03, 2013, 03:56:10 pm
Hi,

Phone cameras are small, because cell phones are small, but it would very easy to build a cell phone into an RX100. It has a microphone, a loudspeaker and also an LCD. So it just need a GSM-module and an internal antenna.

Still, an RX-100 is no D800 killer. It is an RX-100, no more but also not less.

I don't really see cell cameras replacing high end photo gear, but who knows what the future brings.

Best regards
Erik

Stefan,

I get it, but don't get it in a way.

I don't do walk around photography, but see some nice things sometimes.  Yesterday was shooting some background plates of the sky and sun going down with my Leica M8 and the 24mm I rarely take off.

I turned around to leave and saw the most beautiful view of downtown.  I tried to make it work but with the 24 (or 35mm if you factor in the crop), it just didn't work, not close.

Had I owned that little Sony I could have shot something pretty, though don't know what I would have done with it.

Anyway, I'm not an apple fanatic but I have about a trillion of their devices and I'm kind of stuck in their system, so any other phone would just be a camera to me, not a phone so I might as well carry a small camera.

IMO

BC
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 03, 2013, 06:59:10 pm
Technology always has the answer. It has been over 75 years since you could buy an 8x10 view camera new.

And here lies the paradox. It doesn't matter if you look at the high-end or low-end, there are captivating images being made. Image quality adds "flavor" to the image, but good imagery is not defined by technical criteria. Pick up a copy of the World History of Photography. Technology is making leaps and bounds, but the quality of the images are always high.

So we return to the same old discussion when someone finds good images made by what someone thinks as "inferior" equipment. The issue is not in the object, but the perception of that object. We like looking at interesting things and that has nothing to do with resolution or DR.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: tom b on February 03, 2013, 07:20:38 pm
You can buy a new 8x10 camera at B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/390997-REG/Arca_Swiss_014181_M_Monolith_8x10_View_Camera.html).

Cheers,
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 03, 2013, 08:13:19 pm
I remember a very talented photographer doing fashion, who had a set of shots done with a Polaroid Swinger. Client liked the look but not the format, so our nameless friend copied them over to some larger trannies, client loved them :)

Ah well, I guess youth maketh us revolutionaries, age bringeth US senators :)

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jjj on February 03, 2013, 08:18:13 pm
Stefan's photographs are pretty.  Only he knows if a different camera would have changed anything and really, it's only up to him to judge.

My point is until a cell phone reaches the use of something like a RX100 I don't see the point, other than a lot of people just won't carry a camera.

We're all different, but I've never taken a cell phone image in my life where I didn't wish I had a better camera in my hands.
Also very valid, but I think the point was that any camera is better than no camera and that it was fun to use. I use my iPhone to take pics at times, simply as I have it with me and by time I've fetched a proper camera even from say another part of the house, I would have missed the moment.
Other times I've used my pocket camera, rather than getting my backpack off and using my FF DSLR.
As much as I love my high quality cameras, I hate the weight and bulk. I'm still waiting for the digital equivalent of my old Olympus XA 35mm camera, albeit with a 24mm rather than 35mm lens for my street photography. Tiny camera with a razor sharp lens and 35mm film.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Olympus_XA_camera_and_film.jpg/640px-Olympus_XA_camera_and_film.jpg)
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on February 04, 2013, 04:40:44 am
It's the inevitable thing in photographic life: you do it for fun or you do it for business or, even, you do it because it seems a good idea at the time.

I've taken lots of pix with my Samsung Galaxy (even devoted much time and a slot to it on my website), and the better they eventually turn out to be the more I resent not having shot them with a real camera. But, at the same time, I realise that I simply won't be carrying a camera around with me unless there's a preconceived purpose. I never have.

So what's the solution? Don't take the pix or carry on regardles of ultimate disappointment at jpeg and format?

But, I think things have reached a point where they might change. And price also becomes a consideration. My previous cellphones were small, inexpensive and handy devices that fitted seamlessly into my daily life. Not so the Samsung, and if these items get even larger, they will also become self-defeating because their real purpose will have been over-developed to the point of competing with other bits of gear more suited to purpose... another entry into the circle of rise and fall?

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: 32BT on February 04, 2013, 04:58:45 am
... and if these items get even larger, they will also become self-defeating because their real purpose will have been over-developed to the point of competing with other bits of gear more suited to purpose... another entry into the circle of rise and fall?

I very much agree with that first part, but it certainly isn't the fall just yet. It seems more like it's so new they are still trying to find the optimal functionality vs form-factor.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 04, 2013, 08:57:20 am
My previous cellphones were small, inexpensive and handy devices that fitted seamlessly into my daily life. Not so the Samsung, and if these items get even larger, they will also become self-defeating because their real purpose will have been over-developed to the point of competing with other bits of gear more suited to purpose... another entry into the circle of rise and fall?

Rob C

Or one can say that a camera now needs a screen and electronics, but a compact will cost $200, an iPhone sells for $800 but people can afford it on a carrier plan, so in fact the cellphone has a much better screen and electronics and a good touch interface and is connected, and is aready a better camera  except it ... has a minimalistic lens/sensor.

So a cellphone or tablet with a real lens/sensor mounted on it should be much better than any compact.

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on February 04, 2013, 03:24:27 pm
Edmund,

One of the newer things that leads me to shake my poor head nowadays is the sight of those lidless 'tablets', covered in fingerprints, left lying on bar tables in full sunlight, usually in the putative care of children under ten. Why would anyone opt to be encumbered with such a thing? I have seen people taking photographs! with these dreadful 'accesories'. I now have discovered why everybody under forty seems to carry a backpack, even if just going to the local little town to have no more than a coffee or pay a visit to the bank! It's just to carry all the fashionable junk that they are all pressured into buying. Amazing! We used to think life should be travelled light.

Well, a fifteen-hundred-euro brand-new M9 would be about right on my scale of values. With a 35mm lens included, of course. That's what value really means.

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: FredBGG on February 04, 2013, 03:34:10 pm
Or one can say that a camera now needs a screen and electronics, but a compact will cost $200, an iPhone sells for $800 but people can afford it on a carrier plan, so in fact the cellphone has a much better screen and electronics and a good touch interface and is connected, and is aready a better camera  except it ... has a minimalistic lens/sensor.

So a cellphone or tablet with a real lens/sensor mounted on it should be much better than any compact.

Edmund

Samsung Galaxy phone.

Great screen, Android OS and a pretty good lens. Connected and all of that....

(http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/samsung-galaxy-camera/z-samsung-galaxy-camera-beauty.jpg)

(http://media.t3.com/img/resized/sa/xl_SamsungGalaxyCamera_5_624.jpg)



 
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Stefan.Steib on February 04, 2013, 03:51:23 pm
Fred

the Samsung Galaxy is awesome ! I happened to try one recently for some days and watch the owner shoot amazing stuff with it (the camera software is way cool!)
The coolest feature even if nobody will believe it : it´s about the best WLan access point available. Super stable and fast, battery lasts very long.
And - I´m sure there will be a version 2 that can also be used as a phone !
It´s just logical. Samsung will do this.

Regards
Stefan
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on February 04, 2013, 03:58:12 pm
Branding confusion? My Samsung Galaxy Ace is a cellphone and camera too. It doesn't look anything like the white 'camera' version of Samsung Galaxy posted here! It's flat!

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 04, 2013, 04:21:55 pm
Branding confusion? My Samsung Galaxy Ace is a cellphone and camera too. It doesn't look anything like the white 'camera' version of Samsung Galaxy posted here! It's flat!

Rob C

This thing is amazing in the precision with which it lets you compose a shot.
Problem is the cr*ppy Samsungy postprocessing and what it does to skin textures etc.
Maybe the next one they will put a decent camera on it.

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: FredBGG on February 04, 2013, 06:12:49 pm
Fred

the Samsung Galaxy is awesome ! I happened to try one recently for some days and watch the owner shoot amazing stuff with it (the camera software is way cool!)
The coolest feature even if nobody will believe it : it´s about the best WLan access point available. Super stable and fast, battery lasts very long.
And - I´m sure there will be a version 2 that can also be used as a phone !
It´s just logical. Samsung will do this.

Regards
Stefan

The post processing on this camera are pretty cool too....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SYMXxTNbUc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SYMXxTNbUc)

Sample from flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redbuslondon/8176575192/sizes/l/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/redbuslondon/8176575192/sizes/l/in/photostream/)
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Stefan.Steib on February 04, 2013, 06:42:46 pm
Fred

That is the camera I was speaking of - yes the naming is totally confusing...... So
Samsung Galaxy Camera (with android and Zoom lens).
Ricardo Liberato is using one, we had used this for up to5 people as an access point in Dubai and also in Norwich - no problem !
Also image quality is really good Definitely a step further than phones normally. And the zoom really makes a difference.

I wish - Phase or Blad would do something like this with a decent MF CMOS. Could be double or triple the size.
I would love that. Maybe with a plugin slot for an iPhone.

Regards
Stefan
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 05, 2013, 12:29:05 am
Stefan,

I took a few trial shots with this thing but they didn't "look" so good -in fact they looked worse than my iPhone- so I never bought one.
Nothing like the Nokia PureView images you posted.
However the functionality, speed and fluidity, of the device was amazing, exactly what you would want to take pictures of your kids and send them to Facebook, or tell everybody about your wonderful trip abroad, minute by minute.

Edmund

Fred

That is the camera I was speaking of - yes the naming is totally confusing...... So
Samsung Galaxy Camera (with android and Zoom lens).
Ricardo Liberato is using one, we had used this for up to5 people as an access point in Dubai and also in Norwich - no problem !
Also image quality is really good Definitely a step further than phones normally. And the zoom really makes a difference.

I wish - Phase or Blad would do something like this with a decent MF CMOS. Could be double or triple the size.
I would love that. Maybe with a plugin slot for an iPhone.

Regards
Stefan
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 05, 2013, 12:34:27 am
Hi,

Hasselblad is trying CMOS, it's called Lunar. They use exclusive materials and snake oil, they could perhaps also add a GSM module?

Best regards
Erik

Fred

That is the camera I was speaking of - yes the naming is totally confusing...... So
Samsung Galaxy Camera (with android and Zoom lens).
Ricardo Liberato is using one, we had used this for up to5 people as an access point in Dubai and also in Norwich - no problem !
Also image quality is really good Definitely a step further than phones normally. And the zoom really makes a difference.

I wish - Phase or Blad would do something like this with a decent MF CMOS. Could be double or triple the size.
I would love that. Maybe with a plugin slot for an iPhone.

Regards
Stefan
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on February 05, 2013, 03:16:02 am
Stefan,

I took a few trial shots with this thing but they didn't "look" so good -in fact they looked worse than my iPhone- so I never bought one.
Nothing like the Nokia PureView images you posted.
However the functionality, speed and fluidity, of the device was amazing, exactly what you would want to take pictures of your kids and send them to Facebook, or tell everybody about your wonderful trip abroad, minute by minute.Edmund



Edmund, I love your sense of fun and suspended hysteria! It's made my morning.

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: FredBGG on February 05, 2013, 04:31:32 am
BC -
the frightening part is that even if you compare the Nokia to a D800 it can hold up pretty well.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studiocomparefullscreen.asp#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=nokia_pureview808&masterSample=2012-07-20-0457&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=nokia_pureview808&slot0Sample=2012-07-20-0457&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=nokia_pureview808&slot1Sample=2012-07-26-0596&slot2Camera=nikon_d800&slot2Sample=dsc_8318&slot3Camera=nikon_v1&slot3Sample=dsc_0304&x=0.001756440281030445&y=0.004189944134078212 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studiocomparefullscreen.asp#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=nokia_pureview808&masterSample=2012-07-20-0457&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=nokia_pureview808&slot0Sample=2012-07-20-0457&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=nokia_pureview808&slot1Sample=2012-07-26-0596&slot2Camera=nikon_d800&slot2Sample=dsc_8318&slot3Camera=nikon_v1&slot3Sample=dsc_0304&x=0.001756440281030445&y=0.004189944134078212)


It depends where you look...

The dynamic range on the Nokia is not good at all and the highlights are very poor.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8499/8447486716_93bd5b0978_b.jpg)

and the color tones are irregular. Some colors are saturated and some are dull. Fine detail like the feathers (or like hair)
are muddy.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8446398405_56c4b43c0d_b.jpg)

Still impressive for a cell phone, but doesn't come close to the V1 either IMO.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 05, 2013, 04:48:46 pm
Fred

Below I compared the Nokia, the Pentax 645 (which is MF) and the D800 (FF 35). Interestingly, the Pentax comes first with a nicely textured image, the Nokia also preserves the texturing, while the D800 and 1V1 are completely losing the subtle curvy lines in the blue. Which could be due to edge sharpness, but then the text shouldn't be sharp, so I put it down to third-rate in-camera processing.

Of course, one can protest my choice from the scene, and the quality of the DP tests, but the very fact that we are actually need to debate and test whether a PHONE is as good or inferior to a D800 is frightening.

The D800 has an 85mm F1.8 stopped down to F11 in this test, we are talking about $4K of state of the art product. Good show, Pentax, Nikon -please try and do better!

Edmund


It depends where you look...

Still impressive for a cell phone, but doesn't come close to the V1 either IMO.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 05, 2013, 05:04:47 pm
Here is a comparison of the Pentax and the Nokia Phone with both the D800 and D800E in the bottom row.
Whatever the issue with the Nikons is, it cannot be attributed to the AA filter as both models fare equally badly.

Sorry guys but the phone is in the class of the MF camera (!) the Nikons are just 35mm quality :)

Before I started this thread I had never looked at a Nokia image, and I would never have imagined that a phone can be mentioned in the same breath as an MF product or a high-end SLR with a top lens, in a studio comparison. I just wonder why none of us realized how good the phones are.

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: 32BT on February 05, 2013, 05:10:05 pm
Here is a comparison of the Pentax and the Nokia Phone with both the D800 and D800E in the bottom row.
Whatever the issue with the Nikons is, it cannot be attributed to the AA filter as both models fare badly.

That's because they don't properly focus the camera/lens over at dpreview. Just move the rectangle to the center of the image where the needlepoint shows in front of a cross. Every camera pretty much has different depth of field showing there. Don't quite understand how one is supposed to compare the images there...
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Stefan.Steib on February 05, 2013, 05:14:28 pm
I would never say that the Nokia is a match for a full res 40Mpix MF or even fullformat D800.
What I did is first sharpen 2 steps (e.g. Nik) downsample the Nokia to about 50-60% and use these resulting images and finetune them with PS CS6.
I also use fairly dark exposures normaly -1/2 stop to keep the highlights from clipping.

And voila - the results work pretty well......... as good that I would say this matches my 5D MK2. Maybe not for the DR but with a little help
from a second (or more)HDR shot(s) there´s not much I wouldn´t dare to do with it.
And all of the shots I took were handheld, lowest Iso setting and not especially worked on for longer than some seconds when shooting it.
Actually it is astonishing simple to get really decent stuff with a little care to the N808.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 05, 2013, 05:20:47 pm
I agree with you. But it proves my point:

  Dpreview's images show that a normal user with a dSLR may get images about as good as a cellphone. ;D
  Stefan proves that a good photographer with a cellphone may get images about as good as from a dSLR :)

Edmund


PS. If I were Nikon, and they had posted such obviously bad quality from my best camera, I sure would get angry ...

That's because they don't properly focus the camera/lens over at dpreview. Just move the rectangle to the center of the image where the needlepoint shows in front of a cross. Every camera pretty much has different depth of field showing there. Don't quite understand how one is supposed to compare the images there...
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 06, 2013, 10:40:46 am
If you compare two systems with the same pixel resolution and both working at Nyquist, won't both systems end up resolving the same detail no matter the format?

I think that simple metrics don't really work, especially if you are trying to get a "winner." I think our perception of an image is far more subtle and far more important than quantifiable results from an image data set. I hear folks saying that the benefit to large formats is the narrow depth of field--that is the defining quality. But is that really true? Lenses were slower and most folks shooting them stopped down. So while you can make a technical arguments that that is the benefit of large formats, that is not how they were/are used. So what makes larger formats so attractive? The answer I think is much more complex. DoF is not the benefit to larger sensor/film size.

As far as the DPreview images, personally I like them. They take photographer skill out of the equation and just put an example of a system response. The interpretation is a little more complex as there are some variables--I remember an RX-1 discussion over the DPreview images, it is amazing how many folks forgot the the RX-1 has a fixed focal length lens even after complaining about it. You need to do a little work with the DPreview images and they can be revealing. A skilled photographer can get better results, but then how do you take the photographer out of equation so you can evaluate the camera?
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jjj on February 06, 2013, 10:53:24 am
I hear folks saying that the benefit to large formats is the narrow depth of field--that is the defining quality. But is that really true? Lenses were slower and most folks shooting them stopped down. So while you can make a technical arguments that that is the benefit of large formats, that is not how they were/are used. So what makes larger formats so attractive? The answer I think is much more complex. DoF is not the benefit to larger sensor/film size.
Very good point. Formats larger than 35mm film were used almost all the time simply because they were much better quality. Being obsessed with shallow depth of field and the 'cinematic look' you get from large sensor video cameras is a bit of a modern obsession/trend. Ironically you look at most films[movies] from last century and funnily enough they rarely have a 'cinematic look' to them.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 06, 2013, 11:47:57 am
If you compare two systems with the same pixel resolution and both working at Nyquist, won't both systems end up resolving the same detail no matter the format?


The cutoff for the sensor is known -up to a point (Bayer effects) - but not for the system as a whole with the lens, the debayering and the in-camera processing; add to that the S/N and DR limitations from too small pixels ...and then as a photographer you really want to know about the rendering of texture, the falloff in the shadows, the NR, the edge look, skin oversharpening, blooming, flare effects from lights in the scene, how foreheads and nosetips burn out, and yes, the bokeh. In a phone camera or a compact many/all of these are baked into the Jpeg.

While the marketing guys have been brainwashing the consumer for the last ten years into the belief that megapixels are all that counts, the cellphone industry has been sponsoring fourier-based measurements of low-contrast slanted edge targets which should reduce everything to a single number (MTF-50); IMHO these are useful for engineering work, but in the end not as informative as photographic tests, but then I am not really qualified to judge :)

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: FredBGG on February 06, 2013, 12:00:34 pm
I wonder why the discussion is stuck on resolution?

With the high resolution of just about everything out there resolution is really not the issue.
There are few display situations where you are going to see huge resolution.

To my eyes the real difference is in dynamic range. Highlights not blowing out and nice blacks... as well as the rest in between.

This is especially the case for available light photography where mother nature sets up your
lighting ratios.

There is a lot of tit and tat regarding formats and the worthiness of the latest FF 24x36 sensors.
While MP counts have gone up etc etc for me the most significant improvements have been in the dynamic range.

Personally the Nokia cell phone doesn't interest me. Blown out whites.

There are too many excellent mini cameras to carry around. In a cell phone all I want is a handy note taking camera.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: EricWHiss on February 06, 2013, 01:11:37 pm
Edmund,
I was just at an Imatest training last week, thanks to Norman Koren, and they have introduced a new 'dead leaves' test chart to measure other things that you mentioned like texture for example.   Interestingly,  I was the only one in the room doing 'high end' work.  Everyone else was working for companies making small sensor cameras for tablets and cell phones, or bar code scanners and things like that.  It seemed mostly they were interested in using Imatest in production environments to cull out the defective units as opposed to a development environment.  Still I came away thinking that most of the energy is going into the small cameras at the moment.
Eric

   
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 06, 2013, 07:24:57 pm
Hi Eric,

 Norman is a friend of mine, a great guy; we regularly chat about stuff. His Imatest software is an industry reference, and readers of this forum who are interested in measurement can download the time-limited version (http://www.imatest.com/download/). I went and took his course a couple of months ago because some customers of mine want to do SFR based image evaluation, and Norman's Imatest is one of the three big vendors here, the others being Image Engineering in Germany, and DxO in France, of course. It was precisely as you say, re the clients, at least those who were talking. However I believe that most camera designers employ similar tools nowadays to validate their prototypes.

 Norman was showing me the dead leaves stuff about a month ago; dead leaves texture test patterns have been floating around before now :) (http://www.image-engineering.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=570&Itemid=210) His contribution, if I understand rightly is to generate a test pattern which has a 1/f power spectrum. In my opinion this means that the image is self-similar and a fractal in the sense of Mandelbrot, but of course I know little about such things.  Although would I agree with Norman and with Dietmar (Image Engineering)  that such an image is an improvement over slanted edge targets, I am not convinced that dead leaves are a good simile of textures; I have seen other fractal techniques which probably capture the human perception of texture more closely eg. Barnsley/Hutchinson IFS systems.  

Edmund

Edmund,
I was just at an Imatest training last week, thanks to Norman Koren, and they have introduced a new 'dead leaves' test chart to measure other things that you mentioned like texture for example.   Interestingly,  I was the only one in the room doing 'high end' work.  Everyone else was working for companies making small sensor cameras for tablets and cell phones, or bar code scanners and things like that.  It seemed mostly they were interested in using Imatest in production environments to cull out the defective units as opposed to a development environment.  Still I came away thinking that most of the energy is going into the small cameras at the moment.
Eric

  

Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on February 07, 2013, 03:52:57 am
Edmund,

Not a criticism of you, nor of anyone else interested in these 'scientific' procedures, but don't you think, yourself, that this stuff actually gets in the way of shooting pictures? isn't it all just another knot in the rope that binds our minds - another subtle piece of self-inflicted inhibition?

Personally, I'm absolutely happy to leave all of this field to those making the bits that I use whenever I use them. That certainly reflects a definite lack of curiosity about some aspects of photographic reality, but as a snapper, I realise that it isn't sweet little old me that will design or manufacture a single camera or optic, and whatever I may feel about what's available, nobody will give a cuss: what makers want to make they will make, regardless of my opinions. Or probably those of anyone else here.

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 07, 2013, 04:04:57 am
Hi,

I don't see a contradiction. Some of us are interested in theory, some in making picture and some of are interested in both.

In general, knowledge used to be regarded as something positive in our society, ignorance less so, why would photography be different?

Best regards
Erik

Edmund,

Not a criticism of you, nor of anyone else interested in these 'scientific' procedures, but don't you think, yourself, that this stuff actually gets in the way of shooting pictures? isn't it all just another knot in the rope that binds our minds - another subtle piece of self-inflicted inhibition?

Personally, I'm absolutely happy to leave all of this field to those making the bits that I use whenever I use them. That certainly reflects a definite lack of curiosity about some aspects of photographic reality, but as a snapper, I realise that it isn't sweet little old me that will design or manufacture a single camera or optic, and whatever I may feel about what's available, nobody will give a cuss: what makers want to make they will make, regardless of my opinions. Or probably those of anyone else here.

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on February 07, 2013, 06:25:14 am
Hi,

I don't see a contradiction. Some of us are interested in theory, some in making picture and some of are interested in both.

In general, knowledge used to be regarded as something positive in our society, ignorance less so, why would photography be different?Best regards
Erik



Simply because in photography it pays to concentrate on the bits a photographer should be able to do.

I never knew how to make Kodachrome nor even how to process it, but I did know how to expose it quite successfully. As I wrote in my post, I have no beef with anyone who wants both sides of the deal, good for them; I just think it can be a dangerous distraction, is all. It can inhibit what you'll try. Too much knowledge can be as dangerous as too little.

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 07, 2013, 07:23:00 am
Rob,

 I do see your point.

 The answer is yes, the discussions about the creative process of photography are clearly detrimental to my technical detachment  :P

 Remember, you sell photos and discuss the tech aspects here, I sell imaging expertise, and discuss the creative aspects here :)

 BTW, taking your question as it is meant:

 Does discussing cooking recipes, trying out new recipes, or watching other cooks, make a master cook a worse cook ?
 
Edmund

Edmund,

Not a criticism of you, nor of anyone else interested in these 'scientific' procedures, but don't you think, yourself, that this stuff actually gets in the way of shooting pictures? isn't it all just another knot in the rope that binds our minds - another subtle piece of self-inflicted inhibition?

Personally, I'm absolutely happy to leave all of this field to those making the bits that I use whenever I use them. That certainly reflects a definite lack of curiosity about some aspects of photographic reality, but as a snapper, I realise that it isn't sweet little old me that will design or manufacture a single camera or optic, and whatever I may feel about what's available, nobody will give a cuss: what makers want to make they will make, regardless of my opinions. Or probably those of anyone else here.

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on February 07, 2013, 09:15:34 am
Rob,

 I do see your point.

 The answer is yes, the discussions about the creative process of photography are clearly detrimental to my technical detachment  :P

 Remember, you sell photos and discuss the tech aspects here, I sell imaging expertise, and discuss the creative aspects here :)

 BTW, taking your question as it is meant:

 Does discussing cooking recipes, trying out new recipes, or watching other cooks, make a master cook a worse cook ?
Edmund



That's a good question, Edmund, but why are you asking a photographer?

Rob C

P.S. I didn't know you were not a photographer but a sort of consultant. Wise man! I'd associated you with catwalk fashion.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: EricWHiss on February 07, 2013, 10:56:25 am
I've always walked both sides starting with college at UC Berkeley where I doubled in both Physics and Fine Art.  I don't see these things as mutually exclusive at all.   The developments in art have more or less paralleled  those in science throughout history.  Great book by Leonard Shlain, called Art and Physics details this.   

From what I have observed, the most important talent in being a good photographer is business and communication...   is that art or science or neither?
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on February 07, 2013, 03:27:52 pm
I've always walked both sides starting with college at UC Berkeley where I doubled in both Physics and Fine Art.  I don't see these things as mutually exclusive at all.   The developments in art have more or less paralleled  those in science throughout history.  Great book by Leonard Shlain, called Art and Physics details this.  

From what I have observed, the most important talent in being a good photographer is business and communication...   is that art or science or neither?



It's also been my own observation, somewhat unfortunately. When I first hung out the shingle I had already spent maybe six years as a full-time employed photographer, cutting my teeth in an industrial photo-unit (invaluable) and then in commercial outfits for a brief time, where I learned who the local clients were likely to be.

I'd built up a nice little portfolio (nobody knew to call them 'books' then) of this'n'that, shots for some nice girls from the Glasgow drama college and I thought that was all I needed to take off into the wide blue yonder and soar with the eagles.

I had enough put by to last us for six months. We found some work quite soon, and I thought we were on the right track. Little did I realise that at the end of six months I’d be pretty much broke in cash terms, but was owed quite a reasonable sum. Irony, I thought, but years later I discovered irony had nothing to do with it: it was the way the advertising world worked. They gave you the job, paid you – sometimes – at the end of three months, but the local colour labs gave you a month’s credit. Period. Do the maths. One client, a knitwear manufacturer, didn’t want trannies, he wanted colour prints. I was delighted to get an order for six hundred quid’s worth (quite cool back in the late 60s) but I didn’t know he’d take over a year to pay me, bit by bit. That was 600 notes out of my pocket at the end of the first month. No wonder a lot of snappers have to fold.

I also discovered that quality often had bugger all to do with success. I went to see one art director in a big agency and he looked at the portfolio, said it was better than the stuff from the guy he was already using (which I already knew, and that was why I was there in his office), but that he still wouldn’t change. I asked why, to be told the other guy was much cheaper. And that’s a big ad agency I’m speaking about…

So yes, you are right, and to answer the little hook in the tail, I don’t think that’s either art or science: it’s street smarts, and like talent, you have it or you don’t. I never did; I survived despite that massive little flaw. I realised later, after it was pretty much all over, that success doesn’t really depend on talent, how well you do your job, but on whether you are smarter than those who seek to hire you or, better, are born into the right world. Literally. You also have to be able to deliver, but how what you deliver is received depends on many things beyond yourself.

Would I do it again? Being myself, I suppose I would, but were I able to change my early circumstances, maybe/probably not.

Rob C


Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 07, 2013, 09:02:40 pm
Back to the original subject.  In the past, I sold several articles to a national, mass-circulation mag illustrated with images from my Nikon Coolpix 900, a 3 MP camera whose performance pales in the light of current cellphone cameras.  Content is king.

Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 08, 2013, 10:22:27 am
"At recent photo shoot of Civil War reinactors, Kuster primarily used his DSLR but also took some shots with his iPhone just for kicks. At a photo conference, he showed an audience the DSLR/iPhone photos side by side and they overwhelmingly preferred the iPhone images".

http://connect.dpreview.com/post/2355497650/photographer-50-weddings-one-day

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: bcooter on February 08, 2013, 01:25:53 pm
None of this means anything.

Obviously content is king and what goes on in front of a camera is more important that what goes on inside the camera.

That doesn't mean that a cell phone shot (regardless of megapixels) is the same process as working with a professional camera.  Sure there are a trillion people snapping around with a cell phone producing multiple trillions of images a day so I guess they should get some images that look good but that's not professional, that's luck.

Professional is having the ability to shoot something that's repeatable or at least on command.

Also I don't even know why this is being mentioned in this thread.  First we got beat to death by Nikon talk, now it's cell phones.

Doesn't anyone here want to use a real camera?

I shot these two images between sets in Moscow, between ad sessions with a Leica.  

They're not technically perfect and shot in moments,  . . . . and  . . . . I probably could have shot them with a cell phone, but why?  Cell phones make crappy cameras regardless of the electronics and pixel peeping and sharpening and hdring and  . . .

The best part of photography is taking  the restriction of a camera and making that work in your favor.

The Leica I use has a lot of limitations but it seems to make a different look, a different image that I like.

(http://spotsinthebox.com/moscow_ballet_31000.jpg)
(http://spotsinthebox.com/moscow_ballet_2.jpg)

I like working cameras and find pleasure in that, even under the extreme pressure we work in today.  

I enjoy cameras that have restrictions.

You know we talk about this stuff like as long as a device shows mega detail, goes to a billion iso, requires no light, focuses by itself, doesn't take any thought other than frame and go plunk, then it's a good camera and that's nothing like the way any good photo I've seen is produced.  

Good and camera are more than just what shows up on dp review or dxo site with charts, markings and tight crops of a toy mouse.

Anyway, to each their own.

IMO

BC








Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jerome_m on February 08, 2013, 01:44:33 pm
Also I don't even know why this is being mentioned in this thread.  First we got beat to death by Nikon talk, now it's cell phones.

Come to think of it, this forum probably attracts people who like to tinker with cameras... because this is also what technical/view/MF cameras are about. In a world where cameras become more and more automatised, some people still like device where there is some technical interaction between the photographer and the device. Whether it is a view camera with movements for perspective correction or an iPhone mounted on a panorama head and perspective correction in software, the approach is similar.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: bcooter on February 08, 2013, 02:05:30 pm
My point is if anyone spends the cash for a camera that costs more than a Point and Shoot casio, they probably have aspirations of shooting something better than a cell phone photo, or capturing that one weird news event that ends up on cops.

I assume they want to improve their talents and end result.

I'm not against a cell phone that shoots well, I just find it non interesting.  Just because I have a device in my pocket that "can" take a photo doesn't mean that's the process of making a photograph.



IMO

BC
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 08, 2013, 02:51:54 pm
James,

  At this point I'm really starting to wonder whether the limited device is not the big pro SLR. It is getting so you almost need a license over here to carry one around in public.

  I had major issues here in Paris with any type of indoor photography, be it with an SLR or with my Leica, until I finally switched to an iPhone, and now nobody dares to object, because capturing cellphone souvenirs has almost become a human right!

Edmund

My point is if anyone spends the cash for a camera that costs more than a Point and Shoot casio, they probably have aspirations of shooting something better than a cell phone photo, or capturing that one weird news event that ends up on cops.

I assume they want to improve their talents and end result.

I'm not against a cell phone that shoots well, I just find it non interesting.  Just because I have a device in my pocket that "can" take a photo doesn't mean that's the process of making a photograph.



IMO

BC
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: Rob C on February 08, 2013, 03:14:46 pm
BC

I remember the b/w ballet girls; a lovely shot, regardless of camera. Whether it owes anything to an M8 is moot, but there's nothing there tone-wise the either of us couldn't have got with our D700 cameras. What ¡s remarkable is that the shot was made. That's why it's a good one: a good idea in a good location and a good opportunity caught.

Just be happy: it worked well!

Regarding the chat about cellphones: I think it's here on the (hopefully) more pro section of Lula because cameras affect all of us, and to close our eyes to what's going down does us no favours. Nope, I wouldn't use one on a job either, were such an unexpected thing to come my way again, but neither do I want not to know...

Rob C
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 08, 2013, 05:57:49 pm
Regarding the chat about cellphones: I think it's here on the (hopefully) more pro section of Lula because cameras affect all of us, and to close our eyes to what's going down does us no favours. Nope, I wouldn't use one on a job either, were such an unexpected thing to come my way again, but neither do I want not to know...

Rob C

In a year or so the Google glasses will be out, so people in the general population are going to be recording their POV. Now that will revolutionize the news gathering business, and add a new meaning to the term "Eyewitness".

Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 08, 2013, 06:51:35 pm
Well, my last trip to Paris, I got all my street photography from Google maps and I did not have to leave my home in the States.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on February 08, 2013, 06:54:54 pm
According to technologists, Google Glasses could allow humans to interact with their surroundings in a much more dynamic and instantaneous way.

A small screen sits on the right-size of the right lens, along with a camera, microphone and speakers, meaning, potentially, that the user could point the camera at, say, subway passengers and use facial recognition software to inform them of their name, occupation and everything else, such as the time they wore an embarrassing outfit on a train.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/sergey-brin-spotted-on-new-york-subway-wearing-google-glasses-8460790.html
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: theguywitha645d on February 08, 2013, 09:00:46 pm
Well, I can just see drivers use them--it will make texting while driving drunk seem responsible.
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: eronald on October 29, 2013, 11:19:42 am
I would not have expected a cellphone to win against the D800
This guy found out that if you use a typical consumer zoom and no tripod the Lumia will be better by far.
http://evan-theelectricalengineer.blogspot.co.il/2013/10/nikon-d800e-vs-nokia-lumia-1020.html

His write up is interesting.

As an amateur photographer, and professional electrical engineer :) I don't think he had a particularly bad Nikon or particularly bad technique, and actually the bridge images are quite atmospheric.

It's possible that Nikon could improve things by providing a stabiliser on the D800 and upping their game on lenses to the point where an average lens can do 36MP, but the point is precisely that they have not done so.

Apparently the latest Nokia firmware enable Raw. As soon as this phone gets dumped on ebay I'm buying one.
Edmund
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: julienlanoo on October 30, 2013, 07:41:59 am
Problem in France is that everyone thinks to know the law :p .. Any how i take a "copy" of the correct article with me ..

Try shooting in Monaco, forget it without 3 different authorisations :p
Title: Re: Why not just use a cell phone?
Post by: jduncan on October 30, 2013, 09:01:37 am
Why not use a cell phone? Because someone might call and annoy me.



No words needed just great comment.

:)