Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: DHW-JHartje on January 10, 2013, 12:34:09 pm
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Hi
I have seen here in this forum and in several other places that there was a bit misunderstanding concerning our offer to update your existing Hy6 to the new Hy6 Mod2.
First of all it is about the possibility for an Upgrade at all:
An upgrade for Hy6 is possible from now on and you can send us your body for this service to our factory in Braunschweig, Germany! There is no reason to wait any longer, as the Hy6 Mod2 is finished in development. Of cause we haven’t stopped developing at all, but I guess this will never be the case!
Second the pricing for an upgrade:
This is the biggest misunderstanding I think, so let me explain: As EricWHiss posted after a conversation with my colleague Reiner Schoenrock a possible price for an upgrade for the Hy6 is about 350 €. But this isn’t that right. This price is only for an firmware update for one special version of Hy6 and is not a complete upgrade.
For most existing Hy6 versions out there we have to charge more. This is because of the many hardware upgrades that have to be made. My colleague who is doing this upgrade has to work for round about one day to complete an upgrade. He has to change some PCBs, change the mount of the handgrip and several other things.
So depending on your S/N and your firmware-version the price will be between 740 € and 1087 €. So the best would be to send an email with the required information to our service department to get a complete estimate.
I can imagine the confusion about the differences in the mentioned prices but I think this is still a fair price for getting our new product. I hope this will end a bit the confusion going on here and in other forums as well. I’m opened for any opinion on the above-noted.
Best regards,
Johannes Hartje
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Johannes,
Does it work like this:
Camera bodies already upgraded to V 3.10a3 already got the newer circuit boards so they update is the lower cost of 350 euro. Camera bodies that are V2.xx and did not get updated to v3.10a3 require those updates too (which include the new circuit AF cells) before they can be updated to Mod2 and so that costs the extra amount. I was told by Reiner that some of the oldest bodies can not be updated at all. Is that also correct? Perhaps if there is a certain serial number or version range that is eligible or not eligible that would be helpful to know.
When people e-mail to ask about upgrades, what exact information do they need to have? Camera firmware version from the grip display and serial number from bottom of camera or ???
Who should they e-mail? Sometimes Reiner does not answer e-mails for a week or more.
You may as well include the address to ship the camera to here since people may find all the information in one place.
Thanks,
Eric
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I forgot to add, that it is awesome that DHW is providing the upgrade service! This is so much better than phase/mamiya who make you buy a whole new camera for a tiny update in the DF+.
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Johannes,
Does it work like this:
Camera bodies already upgraded to V 3.10a3 already got the newer circuit boards so they update is the lower cost of 350 euro. Camera bodies that are V2.xx and did not get updated to v3.10a3 require those updates too (which include the new circuit AF cells) before they can be updated to Mod2 and so that costs the extra amount. I was told by Reiner that some of the oldest bodies can not be updated at all. Is that also correct? Perhaps if there is a certain serial number or version range that is eligible or not eligible that would be helpful to know.
When people e-mail to ask about upgrades, what exact information do they need to have? Camera firmware version from the grip display and serial number from bottom of camera or ???
Who should they e-mail? Sometimes Reiner does not answer e-mails for a week or more.
You may as well include the address to ship the camera to here since people may find all the information in one place.
Thanks,
Eric
Hi Eric,
the cheapest Upgrade is about 740 €. Because even if you have the latest firmware on your Hy6 and you want to upgrade to Hy6 Mod2 we have to totally disasamble the camera and that costs time and money.
I forgot to add, that it is awesome that DHW is providing the upgrade service! This is so much better than phase/mamiya who make you buy a whole new camera for a tiny update in the DF+.
Yes I think this is the main part :) Even if I'm a bit biased I think that such a service is kind of unique because it isn't just a firmware update but a total overhaul of the camera. And we would like to have as much customers as possible to enjoy the experience of the Hy6 Mod2 (even if the color stays grey :) )
The most important information we need to figure out if an upgrade is possible or not and how much the exact price would be is he serial number on the bottom of the camera. Every other information we would need we should have in our database.
if you are interested in this service this is the contact information:
Email: m.brauner@dhw-fototechnik.de
Adress:
DHW Fototechnik GmbH
Service
Salzdahlumerstraße 196
D-38126 Braunschweig
And of course you can allways email me via j.hartje@dhw-fototechnik.de.
Best regards,
Johannes
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Ok, now we need a way to mount MA645 backs! :-)
Seriously, is there a chance that it will be possible to use a Phase IQ back on a Hy6?
Mjon
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Hi mjon,
This is not under control of DHW. P1 has to decide about this. The more users will contact P1 and point out, that this combination is a real need, the bigger the chance is, that P1 will come up with an interface for Hy6/Hy6mod2.
Best regards,
Johannes
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I've wanted a Phase back on a Hy6 since my P45+ days back in 2006. The rotating, tilting Leaf backs have mollified that somewhat--still it would be nice to have a choice.
Thanks, Johannes, for the clarification on the upgrades.
All the best,
-Brad
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I also wished for a p45+ when I had my 6008AF and I guess it was possible through Rollei Metric/Trimble for and extra 3000euro. But two big things changed how I feel. First I can work the Leaf MOS files in capture one software which was big, and secondly Leaf introduced the AFi-ii which has the revolving sensor which I use very often. To be able to rotate from landscape to portrait in two seconds without looking, and keep my focus on shooting without chance of dust or dropping. This is really very important to me! The ergonomics on the Hy6 are very very good, and the rotating sensor of the Leaf AFi-ii completes this package. Now I view the leaf credo and phase IQ as being nearly the same and I'm happy that they are supporting the Hy6 with two options. A third would still be okay :)
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Johannes, welcome to the forum!
Indeed very good to see DHW active here! For Hy6 system there is thereby online support from both Johannes and its Leaf backs from "Yaya" Yair Shahar in these forums. Not sure if there even are any others from any manufacturers on this forum. It is a good very good ting with this support. Hopefully more people will realize how good these products are.
Really good with upgrade option of older Hy6 backs, much different from what Mamiya was to me.
I also wished for a p45+ when I had my 6008AF and I guess it was possible through Rollei Metric/Trimble for and extra 3000euro. But two big things changed how I feel. First I can work the Leaf MOS files in capture one software which was big, and secondly Leaf introduced the AFi-ii which has the revolving sensor which I use very often. To be able to rotate from landscape to portrait in two seconds without looking, and keep my focus on shooting without chance of dust or dropping. This is really very important to me! The ergonomics on the Hy6 are very very good, and the rotating sensor of the Leaf AFi-ii completes this package. Now I view the leaf credo and phase IQ as being nearly the same and I'm happy that they are supporting the Hy6 with two options. A third would still be okay :)
+1 If Phase One backs were offered to Hy6 it would likely attract more users, and also match Phase One's open system policy...
Yet... per my humble experience I must also ask why Phase One? My Leaf AFi-II 12 is already so very good image quality and is on pair in image quality to the IQ180, but significant lower priced, rotating sensor, tilt display, larger display. Leaf support is superb to me, both locally in Hong Kong by Gavin Hui and Fai & Peter in FounderGT/Leaf in HK, plus by email to Yair. It is not about gear raving, it simply works so really really well.
Best regards,
Anders
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Eric and Anders,
I couldn't agree more. I had my P45 and then the P45+ back in 2006, long before the Aptus/AFi-II's were available.
Now I have an AFi-II 10 on a Hy6 (albeit without a lot of time to use it, sadly), but after visiting Hasselblad V (500 and 200-series), H, Contax and Phamiya, completely agree that the Rollei setup is the bees knees, whether considering IQ, ergonomics or versatility.
And finally even available in black. :)
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Johannes —
Two things:
- having had the opportunity to fiddle with a/the Sinar Hy6 a few weeks ago, kinda wondering ..why is there no rotating adapter for the other backs? One of the biggest advantages of the II 7/10/12 seems to be that you don't have to dismount the back to rotate. Would it not be logical to somehow facilitate this functionality ..especially with the Credo now available in an Hy6 mount?
- is there any word on the price of the actual mod2 yet [either body only, or body + 4560 or 6060]? And if one was to purchase one of the new bodies, would it be possible to have the grip take either AFi batteries or Credo ones?
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Johannes —
Two things:
- having had the opportunity to fiddle with a/the Sinar Hy6 a few weeks ago, kinda wondering ..why is there no rotating adapter for the other backs? One of the biggest advantages of the II 7/10/12 seems to be that you don't have to dismount the back to rotate. Would it not be logical to somehow facilitate this functionality ..especially with the Credo now available in an Hy6 mount?
- is there any word on the price of the actual mod2 yet [either body only, or body + 4560 or 6060]? And if one was to purchase one of the new bodies, would it be possible to have the grip take either AFi batteries or Credo ones?
Hi,
trying two answer your two questions:
- the feature of rotating back you have when using a leaf aptus back, is a feature from the back. Its really difficult to produce an "adapter" for rotation because it's a deep impact in the optical system regarding focus, etc...
- As you can allready purchase Hy6 Mod2 the are of cause allreday prices known :) :
- Back only | 4633,87 € + VAT
- Back + 6x6 kit | 6000,00 € + VAT
- Back + 6x4,5 kit | 6000,00 € + VAT
Best regards,
Johannes
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Johannes -
I meant like the Sinar backs (where the entire back rotates in place, not just the sensor inside of it)
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Nice idea, but you have to look at the realities: the Leaf backs mount with four pins that go into the Hy6 camera body. For them to adjust this as you suggest, they'd have to rework the back 1/4"-1/2" of the body, which is no trivial matter.
Sinar backs are designed to be mounted onto their adapter, which then attaches to the Hy6. Their back is designed to accomodate the spacer thickness.
If neither the back nor the body is designed for a spacer, it is very hard to add one.
The good news is that Leaf makes both a Credo and an AFI (with rotating sensor) to fit the Hy6, so its still current. One can only hope that the rotating sensor mechanics will at some point be combined with the fast processing of the newer Credo - but neither of these are within the purview of DHW.
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Geoffrey - I have the AFI-II, but I'm reluctant to use it outside of the studio due to the LCD. Was planning to pick up a Credo 80 for location but.. The constant exposure during rotation..
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Hi Alex,
Why do you not want to use your AFi-ii outside of the studio? Because of its hard to see the display or fear of damage? There is an outside mode, which makes the display much more visible outside, and the plastic display cover works very well and is cheap to replace should you scratch it.
Eric
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Hi Alex,
Why do you not want to use your AFi-ii outside of the studio? Because of its hard to see the display or fear of damage? There is an outside mode, which makes the display much more visible outside, and the plastic display cover works very well and is cheap to replace should you scratch it.
Eric
Also I just received notice that MamiyaLeaf here in the US have lowered the prices on the Aptus II7,II8,II10 and II12's (new units) for a limited time in all mounts.
The Aptus II7/9 - $10,990 and Aptus II10 $17,990 and Aptus II12 $23,990!
Makes getting into the Hy6/Afi even more affordable.
We should have details up on our website (https://digitaltransitions.com) shortly.
Lance
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Hi Alex,
Why do you not want to use your AFi-ii outside of the studio? Because of its hard to see the display or fear of damage? There is an outside mode, which makes the display much more visible outside, and the plastic display cover works very well and is cheap to replace should you scratch it.
Eric
The display. It's not so much navigating menus and whatnot - it's just such an effort to review an image with that god awful display. The AFi will forever remain plugged into a glorious calibrated 50" screen, where waiting the better part of a minute to view something at 100pc is a thing of the past.
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Also I just received notice that MamiyaLeaf here in the US have lowered the prices on the Aptus II7,II8,II10 and II12's (new units) for a limited time in all mounts.
The Aptus II7/9 - $10,990 and Aptus II10/12 - $17,990!
Makes getting into the Hy6/Afi even more affordable.
We should have details up on our website (https://digitaltransitions.com) shortly.
Lance
Wow! That's great! (Except not for me since I already have one! but i'm not selling ;))
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Alex, how did the old photogs shooing polaroids manage this? They had to wait 60 seconds for the polaroid to develop and that was all just to check lighting and stuff. They then needed to send the film out. :o
I think it seems like forever to check an image at 100% but its only a few seconds. I mostly only check histogram and composition. I have gotten used to trusting my focus. Maybe if I have a shot I really like, I will view just to be sure I have it, but I don't check often.
The Aptus backs still have the edge over the credo in my book because of the rotating sensor internally and the ability to enter comments into the back and lens data.
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Alex, how did the old photogs shooing polaroids manage this? They had to wait 60 seconds for the polaroid to develop and that was all just to check lighting and stuff. They then needed to send the film out. :o
It's more for focus than anything - very seldom are my exposures not where I want them to be.
Funny thing, though - the leaf actually meters like I want it to. I have to fiddle with things on my D4 :(
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Same for me on the canon 5D2... it seems like I am constantly fiddling with the adjustment on my 5d2 to get it to expose 'correctly' however my Hy6 does it perfectly. In general the metering is very good on the Hy6. I love how easy it is to adjust the compensation and flash compensation with the buttons on left side and scroll wheel.
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I've never used the cameras meter - was basing it off my experience with the Sekonic L758DR. But apparently you have to calibrate the meter to the camera?
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Just a little update: we finally managed it to get our website online in english. But I'm still wondering why you people asked us to do so, because apparently nobody is used to this language and most people prefer speaking german :o ::) ;D
For now we pushed it a little bit and just came up with sections SLR,TLR and lenses. The rest will follow in the next days.
Best regards,
Johannes Hartje
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Just a little update: we finally managed it to get our website online in english. But I'm still wondering why you people asked us to do so, because apparently nobody is used to this language and most people prefer speaking german :o ::) ;D
For now we pushed it a little bit and just came up with sections SLR,TLR and lenses. The rest will follow in the next days.
Best regards,
Johannes Hartje
thank you! I just checked your site in English and it looks good. I am glad I didn't have to use the Google translator.
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In general the metering is very good on the Hy6. I love how easy it is to adjust the compensation and flash compensation with the buttons on left side and scroll wheel.
So I'm curious, how do people find the metering with the Afi backs on the Hy6 vs Credo? I've been finding that at least outdoors in bright sunlight my Hy6 + Credo 80 seems to be overexposing by quite a wide margin - +1 to maybe even +2 stops. Highlights get blown quite a bit, although they are recoverable in C1 (not the way I'd like to do things though, relying on the software to "fix" images that should have been correct in the first place in-camera).
Shooting 6x6 film on my Hy6 I do not have this problem at all - metering is always spot-on accurate unless I make a silly mistake.
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Hi, Deckard,
I've not shot film on my Hy6, but on my AFi-II 10, I don't see a one or two stop discrepancy; I consider the accuracy to be dead-on. Sorry, I don't have a Credo, but hopefully it's still a data point for you.
-bRad
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Is it possible that your back ISO is set lower than you you are aware of? I ask, because I have the Rolleiflex Hy6 Mod 2 and am using the Aptus II 12, and find that the exposures are accurate. Oh, are you using the LCD on the hand grip?
Jerry
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I'm setting the ISO on the back itself, and it is registering properly on the grip, so I believe that aspect is working as expected.
I actually traded up from an Afi-7 to the Credo 80, and don't recall seeing this much variance with the Afi. Now, I can get things under control if I just shoot pure manual, but when I'm out in the field I rely more on the built-in metering of the Hy6 shooting in Aperture priority mode.
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Hi,
How do you have your metering set? There are several options to choose from spot, weighted or full. Also it seems you can change the exp. compensation for each program aperture or shutter priority, manual or automatic. Is your error consistently over or under or varied? Like the others I've been pretty happy with the metering (AFi-ii 12) but sometimes when outside I need to switch to spot metering or to use the whole frame.
Eric
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What type of batteries do I use for the 6x6 back? Also is there somewhere that explains what the benefits of the upgrade are?
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The 6x6 film back takes 1.55V batteries. I recently bought new ones from Best Buy. They were labeled as Energizer EPX76 batteries.
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Also is there somewhere that explains what the benefits of the upgrade are?
If you scroll down to the bottom of this page, I believe the improvements are the items listed under "Hardware innovations 2012" and "2012 new firmware" -
http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/en/rolleiflex-slr/rolleiflex-hy6-mod2.html
I'm planning to send mine in this week, as I think the handgrip improvements / strengthening alone are worth the price.
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Thank you kindly for the answers. I am really psyched to see DHW on the forums!
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I have the hy6 mod2 but I cannot figure how to configure the following new feature, namely,
"Battery capacity monitoring via an icon in the camera viewfinder display or as a percentage value in the hand grip display."
I was also wondering if there is a date for an updated instruction manual.
Thanks
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I am thinking of moving from Phase to Hy6. and I was told that the promo price on Aptus II 12 has ended?! What's the sense of going back to 31k while all the IQ backs are being discounted aggressively (for trade ins).
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Check around on prices with a few dealers and make sure you are asking for an AFi-ii 12 not Aptus 12. I'm sure you will not have to pay that price. I'd expect you to be able to find one in the low $20's.
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I have the hy6 mod2 but I cannot figure how to configure the following new feature, namely,
"Battery capacity monitoring via an icon in the camera viewfinder display or as a percentage value in the hand grip display."
I was also wondering if there is a date for an updated instruction manual.
Thanks
I just received my Hy6 Mod2 back from Germany today! ;D So far everything seems as it should - the grip definitely feels a bit tighter, the dial which selects Aperture was fixed (it was not registering properly on my camera, they fixed that under warranty), and I do see the battery % in the grip - for that just navigate to the Status screen on the handgrip menu. The second item in the list is now Battery Charge (and is fluctuating a bit between 40% and 50% for me right now). The icon in the viewfinder does show a partial now when not full, not sure what the difference is there (never really paid much attention to it before).
The mirror slap also doesn't sound very different from before, so I will need to do some tests with the extension tubes shooting some macro scenes to see how much improvement there is. All in all though, it feels like I just bought a brand new camera for a fraction of retail price. :)
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Same for me on the canon 5D2... it seems like I am constantly fiddling with the adjustment on my 5d2 to get it to expose 'correctly' however my Hy6 does it perfectly. In general the metering is very good on the Hy6. I love how easy it is to adjust the compensation and flash compensation with the buttons on left side and scroll wheel.
You know... after being forced back to using my 5D2 for the last few weeks, I've now noticed exactly what you're talking about. I'm always finding myself dialing in +1/3, +2/3, etc, for each and every scene I want to shoot. At least on the Hy6 and film I've never had a problem with the metering. Credo back I'm still working on, but am much more motivated to get out and shoot some landscapes now that the weather is starting to warm up.