Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Greg D on December 13, 2012, 02:35:28 pm
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I'm considering an XE-1. With the zoom(s) available or soon to be, it seems almost ideal for my use (mostly used backpacked - would be nice if it was weatherproof, but keeping a small camera dry is not so hard). But the thing making me hesitate is what I've read about its raw files not playing nice with Lightroom. How much of a problem have users of these cameras found that to be? (Really hoping that someone might have some insight as to when/if Adobe will come up with a better solution for this - Jeff Schewe are you reading this?)
Thanks for any insight.
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I have been converting Fuji RAWs with LR 4.2, and as long as sharpening is kept below about 40 on the amount scale (detail slider I push to 100) I have no complaints. Both X-Pro1 and X-E1 files that I have shot and converted have been printed on full magazine spreads just fine. The there is always the SilkyPix which seems to cause less of those watercolor artifacts, but I think the whole problem has been overblown by pixel peepers.
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It is mainly a problem with foliage, but there is also color bleed, especially on something like a red background and white letters. I am hoping Adobe will fix it, they have not said, and Fuji has said they have given them the info to improve it. The reality we may not know. Capture One will be release support soon in their software (V7) and if that does the trick then things will be great!.
It is a great camera, the image quality is superb, and it is fun to use. I have the X-Pro 1 with the three primes and some adapted lenses. I too am waiting for the Zeiss.
Alan
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The raw files are indeed not playing nice with Adobe. Whether this is a problem pretty much depends on what you are planning to shoot, and how much your workflow depends on Lightroom. Any kind of foilage and grass tend to generate artifacts. The more you sharpen, the more those will be visible, but they are there even when sharpening is set to very low. Keeping the "Detail" slider to a minimum helps, too. (Funny thing, Petrus seems to have the opposite approach.) I have noticed artifacts even in areas with very little detail, but they tend not to be a problem. Color bleed has not been an issue for me, but then this might be due to the kind of photos I have taken. Silkypix does a much much better job and is not as horrible as people make it out to be.
My thought would be that if for some reason you need to stay entirely within an Adobe-centric workflow, and you want to use the camera for backpacking (foilage), the X-E1 is not a good choice at the moment (as much as I like the camera and lenses). This will change if/when Adobe updated their raw engine. If you are not wedded to Lightroom, the X-E1 is a very nice camera.
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Yes, foliage is pretty prominent in my photos. And I am pretty dependent on Lightroom. Anyone tried using the Fuji raw converter (Silkypix?) to convert to TIFFs then importing those into Lightroom?
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Greg,
Silkypix works, it is a bit of a clunky interface but what I have done is convert to a really neutral-flat 16 bit tif image and then import to lightroom to adjust contrast and any other adjustments.
I will first try it in Adobe if that is now working for me or the artifacts are too much then I convert in Silkypix and go from there.
Alan
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I will first try it in Adobe if that is now working for me or the artifacts are too much then I convert in Silkypix and go from there.
Alan
+1.
Silkypix is not as bad as people make it out to be. If you are into technical details, http://chromasoft.blogspot.com/2012/05/demosaicing-fuji-x-pro1-and-its-x-trans.html (http://chromasoft.blogspot.com/2012/05/demosaicing-fuji-x-pro1-and-its-x-trans.html) has an excellent explanation of what is going on.
Still, despite the great lenses of the Fuji system and the overall look of the images, if I were to shoot landscapes I would not pick the Fuji X-E1. There are excellent alternatives out there which do not require waiting for software updates that might never materialize.
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I finally, actually made some foliage tests with Lightroom 4.3 and SilkyPix with different sharpening settings. LR 4.3 makes much snappier and more saturated pictures, but you have to be really careful with the sharpening. Default is OK, so is setting the amount to 40 or so. Past that it turns to art, not photography. SilkyPix does not cause the watercolor effect even if you push the sharpening, but the result is more bland and there is less shadow detail. I prefer Lightroom, aliasing or not. And the feel of the cameras and the creative kick I get from them is worth more than problems from over sharpened LR files. Focus properly and do not over sharpen, what is the problem? With 2 assignments I have paid the two bodies and 3 lenses already. While having fun. Go out and take photographs and enjoy.
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The Fujifilm X cameras are simply the wrong choice for landscape work, IMO. If you were shooting available-light portraits, nighttime urban street shooting and the like I'd say it was a great fit. But the reduced color resolution of the design simply makes it a lot less competitive than, say a NEX-7.
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Whether or not Adobe fixes their issues is something we will wait and see. They may decide that they do not want to spend the resources. However Capture One support will soon be released or so they are saying on the Phase One forums, so that is something to look forward to and an option. In the meantime the X-Pro 1 with some careful work can makes some decent landscape shots...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8338/8240830397_716edf465e_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aps-photo/8240830397/)
_DSF3997-web (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aps-photo/8240830397/) by APS-Photo (http://www.flickr.com/people/aps-photo/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8062/8240831705_1129280576_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aps-photo/8240831705/)
_DSF3909-Edit-Edit-2-web (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aps-photo/8240831705/) by APS-Photo (http://www.flickr.com/people/aps-photo/), on Flickr
Alan
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Anyone tried using the Fuji raw converter (Silkypix?)
Fuji supplies Silkypix v3. ISL now on v5... certainly it is not like LR4 vs LR2, but gives you an idea that the word SilkyPix w/o version designation shall not be used to call Fuji supplied version.
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I finally, actually made some foliage tests with Lightroom 4.3 and SilkyPix with different sharpening settings. LR 4.3 makes much snappier and more saturated pictures, but you have to be really careful with the sharpening. Default is OK, so is setting the amount to 40 or so. Past that it turns to art, not photography. SilkyPix does not cause the watercolor effect even if you push the sharpening, but the result is more bland and there is less shadow detail. I prefer Lightroom, aliasing or not. And the feel of the cameras and the creative kick I get from them is worth more than problems from over sharpened LR files. Focus properly and do not over sharpen, what is the problem? With 2 assignments I have paid the two bodies and 3 lenses already. While having fun. Go out and take photographs and enjoy.
My experience is similar. Going out and actually using the camera seems like a radical idea. ;)
The Fujifilm X cameras are simply the wrong choice for landscape work, IMO. If you were shooting available-light portraits, nighttime urban street shooting and the like I'd say it was a great fit. But the reduced color resolution of the design simply makes it a lot less competitive than, say a NEX-7.
Perhaps. Though I've seen some large prints that are easily the equal of a 5DII.
Whether or not Adobe fixes their issues is something we will wait and see. They may decide that they do not want to spend the resources. However Capture One support will soon be released or so they are saying on the Phase One forums, so that is something to look forward to and an option. In the meantime the X-Pro 1 with some careful work can makes some decent landscape shots...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8338/8240830397_716edf465e_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aps-photo/8240830397/)
_DSF3997-web (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aps-photo/8240830397/) by APS-Photo (http://www.flickr.com/people/aps-photo/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8062/8240831705_1129280576_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aps-photo/8240831705/)
_DSF3909-Edit-Edit-2-web (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aps-photo/8240831705/) by APS-Photo (http://www.flickr.com/people/aps-photo/), on Flickr
Alan
Good stuff.
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Sorry, but is this an issue with Lightroom only, or ACR too?
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Sorry, but is this an issue with Lightroom only, or ACR too?
Both.
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Just got my X-E1 with kit lens. Impressed so far but need more time to come to any specific comments. I'm trying to transition (at 67) from a 5D MarkII to something lighter for my hiking so am trying this out. Seems very good so far but different and a lot to get used to. I'm a little disturbed by comments that this is not a good landscape camera because this is my primary interest. So far, I'm not seeing problems. Waiting patiently for the new wide angle 14 prime.
I'm very interested in a lightweight, yet high quality landscape kit. Right now, I'm carrying a Benro carbon fibre at 3.6 lbs. It has been an excellent friend and never failed but I think I can move to something lighter with an X-E1? Maybe about 2 lbs not including head. It needs to be at least 5 feet high as I don't want to stoop over.
Does anyone have suggestions about this? I can use use my existing Markin head.
Thanks,
John Moore
johnagon.com
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Thanks Pelao.
John,
I too am looking for smaller tripod for when I am just carrying my X-Pro 1, so I will see if anyone comes up with some suggestions. One that looks kind of interesting is travel tripod from Benro but it comes with a ball head and it is is also made by Fotopro as the C5i, but it is not carbon fiber.
You might also want to wait for the new Zeiss lenses that are coming out for the X-series cameras, they will autofocus as well and they are going to make a 12mm. I will wait on the Fuji until I see the Zeiss.
Alan
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For what it's worth, I think you're doing the wrong thing in thinking of a lighter tripod: they only work, when they work, because of their mass; to go lighter lessens that, and the weight of the camera won't make that much difference to the end result if you use the tripod for long exposures; you can certainly use a light one, even with only two legs extended, if you are able to use a fast shutter speed. Light 'pods and cameras turn into sails. There is never an easy answer.
Rob C
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Thanks Pelao,
Yes, the Zeiss may be better but maybe not and will likely be more expensive. I'll wait a little while but not too long. I'd like a long lens to say 4-500 equivalent and hope someone will make one. Also, a real 1:1 macro would be nice. I enjoy the 150 Sigma on my 5D.
John
johnagon.com
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Thanks Rob,
I know the mass is important but maybe a 2 lb will work with my gear bag attached to a hook underneath? Its just that the tripod now becomes the heaviest part of my kit.
John
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I need a remote shutter release of bracketing. I like the little Canon wireless I use on my 5D but see nothing like this for Fiji. I know that Fuji has one fairy large wired one. I have heard that other brands remotes can work; does anyone know anything about this issue? Thanks.
John
johnagon.com
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John and Alan,
you might want to look at the Feisol CT3441 or CT3442 tripods even though they are a bit over 2lbs. I have their bigger brother, and I am extremely happy with it. I am not sure what the policy on linking to commercial websites is here, so if it is a problem, let me know and I will change the post. In the meantime, Really Big Cameras has a lot of information about the Feisol tripods and are extremely helpful if you have questions.
The Zeiss will certainly be interesting. Don't count the Fuji offerings out, though. Fuji has made some great lenses over time and the 35mm is simply amazing.
Martin
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Thanks Martin and Rob for the input. I will check out the tripods from Feisol. I hear you Rob on the problems with a light tripod but if I can hang something from it it might help. My standard tripod is a large CF Gitzo with a large Arca Swiss ballhead, which is nice but a bit over kill for travel when I want to go lightly and not have a huge weight. Especially now as I am getting older and have some health challenges it gets a lot harder to lug a large backpack with full size cameras, pano heads and a large tripod. The Fuji is not my main camera but it is my day to day easy to carry camera, so it does get used a lot and a small tripod might be nice at times. Oh well no "Easy " button to push.
Thanks all for the input. There may not be an ideal solution.... :-)
Alan
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Thanks Martin,
I've since done more research and the Feisel CT-3342 looks very good at $299 and 2.7 lbs. Its viewing height (without extending) is 54.3 inches which is a little low but not bad for a light tripod.
Induro makes an AKBO CF tripod at 2.7lbs, 56.1 height for $119.95. It looks OK but I'm a little suspicious considering the very low price. Would need to see a review or a real one to know but it seems too cheap to be good quality.
John
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I have an XE-1 question; I have the 18-55mm zoom lens, but the flash does not seem to work on my new camera with this lens. Is the flash disabled when the zoom lens is on the camera?
Thanks,
John
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No the flash is not disabled with that lens. I will guess that what you have done is turned off the sounds? You need to turn on the sounds and not be in quiet mode in order to use the flash. The flash is disabled when in quiet mode, kind of a funky way of doing things but that is what they have done. The lens shade will cast a shadow so be aware of that....
Alan
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Thanks Alan, I will try that. I never would have known these obcure facts..
On an unrelated follow-up question; does anyone consider the 35mm lens for the XE-1 a must have if you alreay own the zoom lens?
Curious about opinions about the 35mm as far as how much it would add to my zoom lens.
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Must have? Depends, I guess. I bought the XE1 about a month ago with the kit zoom and the 35/1.4 because it was offered at a $200 saving vs. the lenses separately and I figure I'll use the zoom's wider capability until I add primes to my kit. For me the 35 was a "must have" because I use primes probably 90% of the time and it is the lens normally on the camera.
BTW, I agree with Alan's answer re the flash. You'll find it in the Owner's Manual p.83 under Silent Mode.
David
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Thanks Alan, I will try that. I never would have known these obcure facts..
On an unrelated follow-up question; does anyone consider the 35mm lens for the XE-1 a must have if you alreay own the zoom lens?
Curious about opinions about the 35mm as far as how much it would add to my zoom lens.
The 35mm lens is a great lens, very sharp and very nice to use. I guess it comes down to whether or not you like to use fast lenses for their narrow depth of field or not. I use an X-Pro 1 and I have all the prime lenses from Fuji, the 14mm, 18mm, 35mm and 60mm and I also have the Rokinon 8mm fisheye. I also use some of my old Canon FD lenses. I liked the camera so much after using it for almost a year that when it was time to upgrade my wife's camera from a Canon G10 we got her an X-E1 and the zoom lens. She is quite happy with the zoom and the zoom is nice for framing and also the OIS support is nice for low light and the fact the Fuji has yet to fix the minimum shutter speed for various modes. That being said I am quite happy with my primes and I use my legs for "zooming", the way my wife likes to shoot, she enjoys the zoom. So it really comes down to how you like to photograph. The IQ from the 35mm is a bit better than the zoom but not by long shot because the zoom is very nice, in fact for the price the Fuji lenses are all outstanding. I still use my Canon gear but it is a lot easier to carry the Fuji with me every day, so it gets used more. So it hard to say it is a must have but for me it is, the lenses are an excellent value.
Alan