Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Mike Guilbault on December 07, 2012, 06:43:52 pm

Title: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on December 07, 2012, 06:43:52 pm
So, rather than stretching on 4 bars, just mount the top and bottom and let gravity do its thing.  Kinda like hanging a scroll.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: davidh202 on December 07, 2012, 08:30:04 pm
Cool Mike! Bars could even be made of different materials and finishes, dependant upon the nature of the image and desired presentation.

 You might even consider drilling a couple of keyholes in the back of the top bar so it could be hung offa couple of nails without what some might consider the ugly cord  ;-)

David
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: enduser on December 07, 2012, 10:10:28 pm
We use the anodized aluminum bars the hang at the bottom of roller blinds.  They come in a range of colors and have a slot along their length.

Just slip the ends of the canvas into the slot having cut the bar to suit.  Torn over and run a silicon bead along the back edge.  There are push-in end caps in plastic that hide the rod ends nicely.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: aduke on December 07, 2012, 10:12:16 pm
That looks very good. Are the bars full round or half round?

Thanks

Alan
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: enduser on December 07, 2012, 10:12:57 pm
First time I've put up an image, sorry for the duplication.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: enduser on December 07, 2012, 10:15:41 pm
They are fully round but you can't easily use a tube cutter due to the slit.  I hacksaw and file smooth.  Finding a simple cutter for these bars is my next task.

We have found that some canvases curl in a bit at the edges after a while, and others don't.  A bit of experimental work needed there.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: bill t. on December 07, 2012, 11:53:38 pm
You can see a dozen variations on those things down at the mall, in the windows of every clothing store.  Quite a few companies manufacture bars just for that purpose, don't have any url's but they're out there.

Main drawback is that the unsupported edges develop curl that increases with time.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: enduser on December 07, 2012, 11:58:56 pm
The advantage of the blind bars is price, the cost for 2 x 24" is about $1.80.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on December 08, 2012, 07:10:37 am
I was thinking of making my own, not necessarily round, but basically two pieces of wood and sandwich the canvas between them. Then you could use different methods to fasten it; gluing or screwing for example (brass screws with the heads cut off would leave a nice round brass 'pin').  Stain the wood to match the image.

I like the idea of the two holes in the back for mounting rather than the cord!  The metal rod could be used for a more contemporary look.  I'll have to look at those too.

I was wondering about the canvas curling on the sides, but it might actually add to the 'look'.

And I assume that as along as the (wooden) bars don't actually touch the image, ie. there's a border around the image like in my original post, then it wouldn't damage the image at all, longevity-wise.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: John Nollendorfs on December 08, 2012, 09:53:10 am
I've been using this technique for nearly 20 years to display photos as large as 60 wide, using RC photo paper. Plastic electrical conduit (about $1.25/10') is available in various diameters. I cut it to proper length, and then cut a slot on my table saw. Then paint the pipes with black spray. To keep the print from sliding out, I cut a 1/4" strip of crack & peel mount board  & attach to the top & bottom edges of the print. Yes, I drill a small hole on each end of the top rail to slip on two small finishing nails properly placed on the wall.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: bill t. on December 08, 2012, 12:57:59 pm
The engineering principle involved is that the heavier the bars, the more edge curl you will get, and the faster it will develop.  But too little weight will leave the print sensitive to air movement.

I used to make gallery window signs printed on long strips of Epson Premium Luster or EHM, screwing together pairs of 1x2x24 pine with the paper sandwiched in between.  A 2x6 foot banner was good for a few weeks before the curl went from looking artsy to looking tacky.  But it was cheap and pretty cool looking when fresh.  You can also get 3/4x3/4 inch "hobby wood" sticks at Lowes for cheap, coupla those at each end with a some Deft on them might look nice.

FWIW those edges are magnets for curious, greasy fingers.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on December 08, 2012, 01:52:13 pm

FWIW those edges are magnets for curious, greasy fingers.

Good point Bill.  But it might be nice for in my own home at least where I tend to change photos more often - rather than always getting them fully framed.

Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: bill t. on December 08, 2012, 03:15:02 pm
The bar thing is actually kind of upscale from what's possible.

I saw a gallery show with $5,000.00, unmounted prints attached to the walls with classic aluminum pushpins, one in each corner.  Have also seen prints hung from binder slips.  Awesome curls in every case.

(http://c4.soap.com/images/products/p/wph/wph-200_1z.jpg)
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: bill t. on December 08, 2012, 04:03:16 pm
Doing my next show with canvas hung from clotheslines.  Betcha I'm not the first.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: petermfiore on December 08, 2012, 08:41:16 pm
Yes it has. One needs to be very careful with presentation or else it can start to look "Pier 1ish.

Just saying.

Peter
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on December 09, 2012, 09:34:46 am
Yiikes... don't want to go there!
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: petermfiore on December 09, 2012, 12:12:47 pm
Yiikes... don't want to go there!


+1
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: framah on December 10, 2012, 10:41:36 am
How about just using a staple gun and staple them to the wall. Takes care of that nasty edge curling problem, eh? ;D

...orrrrr... duct tape!! Yup!! Duct tape it on all four sides to the wall. It will look like a frame if you step back a bit!
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: Ken Doo on December 10, 2012, 11:02:16 am
How about just using a staple gun and staple them to the wall. Takes care of that nasty edge curling problem, eh? ;D

...orrrrr... duct tape!! Yup!! Duct tape it on all four sides to the wall. It will look like a frame if you step back a bit!


...and duct tape does come in different colors.  You'll want to make sure the frame, er, duct tape color complements the image rather than competes with it.   ;D
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: bill t. on December 10, 2012, 12:37:43 pm
True story...for my very first photo show I "framed" the dry mounted prints under window glass, with an inch of duct tape simulating a frame, the rest of the tape wrapped around the back.  Stuck to the wall with mirror-mounting tape.  When you've got $62 to do an entire show, that's what happens.  I bet framah is taking notes.

Flash forward 47 years, they're in a cardboard box in my garage, duct tape, fractured glass, and all.  The duct tape still looks good, which must mean it's archival.  Will bring in million$ at a Sotheby's auction when I'm dead.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: framah on December 10, 2012, 04:49:58 pm
Personally, i'm fond of the camouflage  colored tape. You can hang a show in the woods and no one would notice.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: bill t. on December 10, 2012, 07:17:31 pm
My show managed to go unnoticed for a full two months COMPLETELY WITHOUT the use of camouflage tape!
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on December 10, 2012, 09:50:06 pm
Boy... ask a serious question and it all goes to the toilet! ;)

I guess this is not a popular method of display. lol
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: bill t. on December 10, 2012, 10:31:57 pm
Not popular?  Hardly!

Today's two bar sightings...

--The UPS Store
--Walgreens Drug Store
--Albertsons Supermarket
--The local Starbucks clone
--Barns & Noble Booksellers

Had I gone into The Mall, the list would be huge!  There are more banners in that place than there are empty, 24" and 36" media cores in the dumpster behind Econo Print Masters LLC.

Most of those commercial banners were on cheap-as-dirt polypropylene and vinyl media.  Everybody's doing it!  I'm telling you, there's a commercial banner centric art exhibit just waiting to happen on La Cienega Blvd or in Soho.  It's still possible to be the first person to sell a commercial banner artpiece for $4.3M.

The possibilities are almost limitless...

(http://www.wiccanleanings.com/images/FS072.jpg)

And of course the Chinese have been doing it for eons...

(http://www.provenancecenter.com/artist%20images/scroll%203.jpg)
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: enduser on December 11, 2012, 02:42:50 am
Scoff all you like but there's a seriously good market selling them to kids using,for example, class photos, their sport shots etc, and local shops love, and pay for them.  Not high art, I grant you, but real images to some. It's  a no-brainer when you think who might want a cheap big image,and are not looking for extended life.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: framah on December 11, 2012, 12:04:28 pm
Boy... ask a serious question and it all goes to the toilet! ;)

I guess this is not a popular method of display. lol


BAZINGA!!!
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: enduser on December 11, 2012, 04:54:41 pm
Very strange response to your original question,Mike.  Is it almost beneath them in some weird way?
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: bill t. on December 11, 2012, 06:32:54 pm
Nothing is beneath me.  Not even fun.  We are such serious birds here sometimes!

Everything has a history, a background, a reason, a mythology, a normal context, etc.  For those of us who deal in imagery and communicate ideas, it is important to understand the full range of possible meanings of the things we present, and that how we present them will affect how they are perceived.  Everything we do or present carries some built-in baggage with it, and we need to know what that baggage is lest it surprise us late in the game.  Sometimes a grain of salt provides a shortcut to explore those things in an objective manner, and sometimes a grain of salt helps one see one's self more clearly.

For all the blather here, I think we better understand the world of two-bar hangers (and similar schemes) and the place they have in our complicated, convoluted culture.

Example...use a two bar hanger in a serious gallery show.  Client walks up and says, "oh, that's just like at K-mart!"

Example...Client walks up and says, "oh, how cool, we saw some exquisite ancient scrolls presented that way at the Japanese Wing of the LA Country Museum!"

But I think for most people, two-bar hangers are going to invoke the retail windows down at The Mall and at other overtly retail venues.  An artist planning a show using two bar hangers needs to be aware of that inevitable connection because his message will surely be colored by it, whether he wants that or not.

So that's why I like to venture far afield to explore those things.

Wouldn't mind someday doing an art show using the visual genres developed for retail sales, not beneath me at all and of course it's already been done too many times to count.

(http://www.kelleydawkins.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/warhols_campbell_soup_image_flickr-15112330_std.jpg)
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on December 11, 2012, 09:52:20 pm
Very strange response to your original question,Mike.  Is it almost beneath them in some weird way?

I can see why you may say that, however, I've been bantering back and forth with these guys for quite some time now and I'm perfectly ok with their 'style' of feedback.

I'm still educating myself on the Fine Art side of photography, so when I see something 'new to me', I ask about it here and get an honest answer, even if at times a little veiled. When it comes to displaying your work, they're the guys I want to hear from and I totally get their humour... maybe because it's kinda like mine - a little on the sarcastic side at times, but always presented with good intentions.

Framah and Bill.. please correct me if I'm wrong! ;)
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: framah on December 12, 2012, 09:35:48 am
No... you're good!! ;D

Sometimes, no matter how we try to be serious (right!), we just HAVE to have some fun.

I agree that perception is everything and unless your work invokes an oriental theme, then the system you are mentioning  will only give the impression of cheap and tacky. Now, remember... that is only my opinion and is worth but a few pennies more than what you paid me for it.

Also, many times, the customer is swayed by how expensive the piece looks. If it is in a cheap frame, then they feel that if the artist doesn't think it is worth enough to frame it right, then it mustn't be worth much. Same with pricing the piece. If an artist only prices a piece at $100, then the customer will also think it is only worth that much.

PERCEIVED value is an important part of the process of what we do when we sell.
Title: Re: Canvas stretched on only two bars?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on December 12, 2012, 07:19:21 pm
My thoughts as well framah.  Time to raise my prices again!