Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Doug Peterson on September 17, 2012, 09:08:06 am
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Announcing Phase One DF+ (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/new-phase-one-645df-camera-system) and Schneider 28mm LS (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/schneider-kreuznach-28mm).
Not much more than a press release level of detail at this point, but we're working to get more specifics and will post them as they come.
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The King is dead, long live the King! ;)
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First notable new detail: User Settable AF Fine Tuning
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Next notable detail, the 28mm LS is shipping now. Sounds saleish, but if this is a lens you want, I'd put your order it this morning. Since it's actually shipping and is (by far) the widest LS lens available for the platform I expect the back-log to form quickly.
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sounds like a revolutionary new concept.
;D
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I don't even want to write about it. I'm so hm lets say, its so sad and funny at the same time....
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???
curious
sounds like a revolutionary new concept.
;D
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An enhanced auto-focus delivers accurately focused images fast, even when shooting in low light or low contrast. And with an all-new custom adjustment feature photographers can fine-tune the alignment of digital backs to the camera. With this photographers can easily match their focus preference.
I hope they have added more focus points and made them more defined, but it does not sound like it.
Also I wonder if they have an indication now of which focus point is locking focus.
It also sounds like the focus tuning is not on a lens to lens basis as it is with Canon and Nikon.
The Phase One 645DF+ builds on the success of previous generations of the camera and has undergone a complete overhaul of all moving parts to produce a camera with the highest uptime in the market of high-end photography.
Highest uptime in high end photography..... Hmmm.... Does that mean they are not as reliable as the cameras used by the riff raff.. ;)
I wonder if DF customers will be offered an upgrade path as this in a sense is an admission of reliability flaws in the previous DF model.
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I hope they have added more focus points and made them more defined, but it does not sound like it.
Also I wonder if they have an indication now of which focus point is locking focus.
No and no.
It also sounds like the focus tuning is not on a lens to lens basis as it is with Canon and Nikon.
Not correct. It is on a lens to lens basis. Since (unlike Canon/Nikon) you can use multiple backs on a particular body (or multiple bodies for a particular back) it is also back-to-back basis.
I wonder if DF customers will be offered an upgrade path as this in a sense is an admission of reliability flaws in the previous DF model.
No manufacturer upgrade pricing; though dealers are free to offer such things.
Notably because Phase One is an open platform you can change or upgrade your body independent of the back. So unlike competitors that make you upgrade the back and body at the same time a user of for instance a P40+ and Phase One AF body could elect to upgrade their body to a DF+ or their back to an IQ160, or both at their own discretion.
By your logic any new camera means the previous camera was flawed.
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Not correct. It is on a lens to lens basis. Since (unlike Canon/Nikon) you can use multiple backs on a particular body (or multiple bodies for a particular back) it is also back-to-back basis.
Nice to stand corrected on this one. Nice improvement. Not ground breaking, but nice to see Phase catch up.
Do you know if it will also remember two samples of the same lens if someone has a backup lens.
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By your logic any new camera means the previous camera was flawed.
Not at all. Based on experience of having owned a DFs and an AF. When I had my issues I did a bit of poking around and found
that many others had similar and far worse issues. I would get various and random camera freezes. Required taking back off, grip off, batteries out and re assembling the lot.
Not acceptable for me.
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Hello,
Does any one know how many elements and groups does the new 28mm LS lens have?
Cheers
Simon
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I'm really delighted about the lithium ion battery in the DF+. The AAs were a pain in the AAs and usually died at exactly the most inconvenient time. 10000 shots?? Hyperbole maybe, but has to be a major improvement.
Still waiting for that mythical über camera that Michael referenced.
Best regards,
Andrew
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I hope all of these announcements are just the beginning, but I highly doubt it... is MF market so beaten up by 35mm DSLR that they don't have any R&D money left? Everything is pumped into mechanisms to fool people or what.. DF+ announcement is a bad joke, so is the Leica announcement. Hasselblad without any change to sensors is also a joke (I don't need 10000 mp sensor but come on, at least update something, pull more dynamic range out of the guts you have or introduce longer exposures.. anything!). MF is more and more disappointing, although I thought they are long at the point in which they can't disappoint me any further.
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I can't see anything new in the DF+ body other than mildly improved autofocus response (it's still the same 3 central focus spots, is it not?) and the ability to set different autofocus-focal plane calibrations. The long-life battery has already been around as a 3rd party accessory.
Where's the interchangeable viewfinder that users asked for? The restoration of film-back compatibility? The complete revamp of the fiddly little buttons interface? The wider distribution of many AF points that might compete with Hasselblad's TrueFocus? Weatherproofing? Faster AF primes (like the 645 ProTL's faster ones)?
The feature and performance increments seem to get smaller with most revisions of the 645AF platform (this DF+ being the 6th version). Clearly Mamiya themselves recognised this - they didn't dare call it the DF2, as it just didn't deserve a full number increment!
One can only hope that the reason for this is that behind the scenes, something truly new and awesome is (still) being developed.
In the meantime I'll happily keep using my "vintage" 645AFD, which for me is 90% as good as the DF+ (and better in some ways - film back option, mechanical T mode, mechanical mirror lockup), and 10% as costly.
Ray
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So true ondebanks..
No, really, these announcements sound like a bad joke.. they even make me pissed a bit- but not that I was expecting something big, no, I wasn't, I'm too accustomed to MF development proccess. But because they are insolent enough to ask for our money with their half-ass underdeveloped products. They really must think low of us, are we a bunch of idiots for them?
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I can't see anything new in the DF+ body other than mildly improved autofocus response (it's still the same 3 central focus spots, is it not?) and the ability to set different autofocus-focal plane calibrations. The long-life battery has already been around as a 3rd party accessory.
Where's the interchangeable viewfinder that users asked for? The restoration of film-back compatibility? The complete revamp of the fiddly little buttons interface? The wider distribution of many AF points that might compete with Hasselblad's TrueFocus? Weatherproofing? Faster AF primes (like the 645 ProTL's faster ones)?
This was a refinement of the existing body. The requests you have above are all requests for a new platform - something Phase One has already publicly committed to.
"New" takes time to get right. In the meantime offering a refinement of what's currently available is a logical course.
Doing one does not mean you're not also working on the other.
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This was a refinement of the existing body. The requests you have above are all requests for a new platform - something Phase One has already publicly committed to.
"New" takes time to get right. In the meantime offering a refinement of what's currently available is a logical course.
Doing one does not mean you're not also working on the other.
All sounds a bit feeble. All this talk about a full rehaul of all moving parts, but nothing changed on the outside.
I do not see why more focus points or film backs requite a new platform. Even a removable viewfinder could be done based on the same body.
Hell just about every Mamiya before this had removable finders. The real problem is that Mamiya thought AF would trump the need of different finders.
Not the case.
While a refinement is a move forward I think it will back fire to a certain extent. Phase Mamiya often make somewhat exaggerated claims.
The fixing of reliability remains to be seen. The claim of the most reliable high end camera is unfounded, unless they have had an H5D for 6 months to compare.
I think it makes DF owners that have issues quite pissed off as it is in a sense admitting that the camera is flawed and yet they do not offer an upgrade path even
for recent DF buyers. Profit margins on these cameras are high.... $6,000 for a body with no sensor. There is plenty of room to provide an upgrade path.
I think that doing so would give people far more confidence in the system.
I think that an upgrade path is also important because there is supposedly a totally new camera in the works.
Why is it that there is a reasonably good upgrade path for backs, but not for the flawed body?
Doug you mentioned that dealers can offer something, but I do not think that is going far enough for Phase or mamiya. The brunt should not be on the dealer and the message sent should be from the manufacturer.
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I believe it may have something to do with the scale/numbers of total MF digital backs sold vs 35mm DSLR's. I read on getdpi that the total number of MF digital back sales annually was around 12K (this is from all companies not just Phase One). Compare that to over 40 million DSLR's a year. That number was surprisingly low to me as I would have thought it 3x of that or higher. It helps explain the cost of the new DF still at 6K as the sheer numbers of unit sold will not be anywhere close to the numbers Nikon and Canon will sell in DSLR bodies. Plus some of those backs are being used in Tech cameras so the actual number new 645DF+ bodies that Phase can sell is not that high I would think. Scope of sales is small thus price is higher.
Paul
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This was a refinement of the existing body. The requests you have above are all requests for a new platform - something Phase One has already publicly committed to.
"New" takes time to get right. In the meantime offering a refinement of what's currently available is a logical course.
Doing one does not mean you're not also working on the other.
Um, well if it has taken this long to just 'refine' the 645... then it's going to take a LONG time for whatever it is you hint at. I'd sure hate to be the salesman that has to press this on his customers. "Sorry no upgrade possible, you have to buy this $6k camera but don't worry you'll get to buy another newer camera some time soon that will be better." Maybe this will be the year that Phase dealers start with informing their customers that their excellent backs can be fit to other platforms instead of always pushing the party platform.
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Just got this info
This in from Phase One
Phase One marketing --
1) the 28mm Aspherical is in fact shipping now (the press release had indicated October)
2) the 240 mm lens is shipping Q4
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The shutter can now do 100,000 actuations. Wow. It now matches pretty much every beginner rebel camera. Given that our DF just went to Denmark for repair after the mirror failing on 51,000 actuations this is of course an improvement but in general as pathetic as the DF always has been.
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35mm dSLR shutters are about a third the size of a medium format shutter.
Also it's pretty rare for a photographer to (in practice) shoot nearly as many frames on a 645 system as on their 35mm systems.
Still, continued efforts to increase life-span of the shutter is of course welcome.
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Hi Doug,
Can you tell me how many elements and groups does the new Schneider 28mm LS lens have?
Cheers
Simon
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We should have a demo unit, sales unit, MTF charts, and lens design specs by next week. I do not have them today.
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Hi Doug,
Thank you for getting back to me.
Regards
Simon
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So is this the all new camera that Phase One has been developing for so many years, or is that still to come?
Is there more announcements to come? I was looking forward to a new Capture One.
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35mm dSLR shutters are about a third the size of a medium format shutter.
Also it's pretty rare for a photographer to (in practice) shoot nearly as many frames on a 645 system as on their 35mm systems.
Still, continued efforts to increase life-span of the shutter is of course welcome.
With leaf shutter lenses you have even more reliability issues as both the focal plane shutter and the leaf shutter have to fire correctly.
Twice the failure risk. Something to be considered.
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Not much more than a press release level of detail at this point, but we're working to get more specifics and will post them as they come.
A few years ago a friend of mine coined the term Announcekina, which more than summed up what was offered this year.
To me the least offender was Leica as at minimum "announced" a real upgrade with a cmos M series with live view and video. Now in typical Leica form it was short on details, like actual delivery times and does the cmos sensor have an aa filter or is is blurred, what software it runs in etc. etc.?
I wish Leica had "announced" a repair policy that had a time stamp on it, but hey at least they really changed something.
The strangest announcement was Hasselblad with it's "Lunar" concept. There is nothing new about badging and expanding a (I hate this next word) "brand" to move it to the "I want a luxury camera on my desk" crowd. Leica has done it, Zeiss does it with lenses, heck everybody does it, though I really can't see astronauts in billion dollar spacecraft carrying designer wood handled tiny cameras into the great unknown, but the mock up doesn't look like it could make it through a fedex shipment, much less the rigors of space.
The Phase/Leaf/Mamiya DF Plus to me wins the prize for best announcement while not breaking into a laugh.
The Mamiya 645 has always been the plastic little sister of that venerable company and I guess buyers are suppose to upgrade one more time for .002 percent improvement knowing that Mamiya is really going to make a new camera someday. Maybe Phlem (Phase Leaf Mamiya) are just waiting for the condo market in South Florida to improve, hence the $6,000 cost for a camera only, not including the digital part. That'll help take the sting out of the lost equity.
To me there are two real winners from Announcekina.
Rolleiflex or F+H or dhw or whatever the company is called, for upgrading their existing camera and making those upgrades backwards compatible. Any digital company that sells expensive equipment and for under $500 offers an upgrade deserves a big kiss on the mouth.
Actually the guys that make the Rolleiflex, must be sitting at the corner bar, staring down at their beer and asking, what's wrong with those Phase people? Why spend money on Mamiya when we're ready to go? "Harvey, I told you we should have worn those Viking hats during the Phase presentation."
I feel for those Rollei guys and don't understand why Phase/Leaf/Mamiya just doesn't scratch the whole DF thing and throw some cash at that Rollei is beyond me. What does it really cost to make a few more lenses and a real 90 degree prism compared to making a whole new Mamiya camera that might be presented during the 2016 Announcekina.
It seems Phase jumped onto the wrong highway and just doesn't want to admit to their spouse that they need to turn around.
In reality I guess the real winner of Annoucekina is the present owners of Phase backs, Hasselblad, Contax, Pentax and Rollei Cameras because nothing announced in the last few days, made anything we use obsolete.
IMO
BC
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Just noticed an interesting pricing anomaly in the Phase One announcements.
It may be worth buying your P1 gear in Euros - even if you live in dollar-land - because they are working on an exchange rate of 1.396 dollars to the Euro (5990/4290). The actual rate today from the ECB is considerably different, in favour of the dollar - 1.305. So €4290 costs you $5600, not $5990. Commission margins might knock that back to about 1.32, so $5660. What could you do with the $330 you saved?
Ray
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Spend it on your import tax I suppose? And then some.
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http://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems/Camera-Bodies/645-Specifications.aspx
And the exact diffrence is what? They added a lithium battery and possibility to tweak the af? Sam 3 points as before :(
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Can you tell me how many elements and groups does the new Schneider 28mm LS lens have?
The Schneider 28mm LS (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/schneider-kreuznach-28mm) has 14 elements, 10 groups.
Min focus = 35cm
Max Flash Sync: 1/1600th (requires DF or DF+ and recent Phase/Leaf back)
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My Photokina review:
Leica appears to be on a roll. The M is the solution to my mega bitching about the M-9. It addresses all of my complaints about the M8 and M9, without crippling the M's core use as a compact rangefinder. The new M is a useful and versatile camera now, rather than a $7k one trick pony. I like the M-E too, and while still expensive for a one trick pony, the price is easier to digest. The silver dials are odd.
The S is a great system for MFD. In many ways it is the best of the bunch. Yes it is WAY over priced, but the files are super duper and the handling is really amazing. The "updates" seem nice, but these are thing that should be offered as a service to S owners.
The only thing Leica needs to do is get their repair service together. I had an M8 that had a bad PCB board. I was told that the issue was "Normal", that the cyan and magenta jagged blocks of pixels around over exposed highlights was not a problem. I guess if you are taking pics of your kids or using it as a paper weight, sure, but when you have deliverables it is unacceptable. They were essentially telling me not to send it in. I did anyway and they fixed it, but it wasn't cheap.
Phase: DF+? Yawn. New 28? Sure, why not. Best backs/worst camera, the saga continues.
F&H/Rollei: A real company with an amazing product, a useful update and UPGRADE for current users. Where are the cameras in the states? Support? This is an aspirational camera. This is what Phase should build as an RZProIIID. This is the only MF camera that even makes me consider opening my wallet.
Blad: H5. OK, fine. Lunar: WTF. It looks like it was designed by a pimp from Dagastan or a 14 year old from a Dade County trailer park. Makes all of the Royal Wedding alligator forskin special edition Leicas look like Ives design studies in masterful minimalism. It boggles the mind.
Canon: 6D: yeah, this is a 5d2 with some missing features. Its fine. Confirms that the 5D3 is their pro camera. You can get a new 5d2 for $400 less than the 6D.
Nikon D600: looks promising. If the snesor is anything like the D800 sensor, this camera will be fantastic.
Predictions: Pentax will blow it up with the 645D2 at their home show in Japan. Pentax may in fact become the dominant player in the MFD industry if they can add better tethering and keep prices at a reasonable level. Another prediction: I will have a Leica M by March, and maybe an M-E if the shutter is silent like an M6, or close to it.
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35mm dSLR shutters are about a third the size of a medium format shutter.
Also it's pretty rare for a photographer to (in practice) shoot nearly as many frames on a 645 system as on their 35mm systems.
Still, continued efforts to increase life-span of the shutter is of course welcome.
For that price there is no excuse whatsoever. None.
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Hi Doug.
Regarding the new 28mm, couple of questions:
[1] how many blades for the aperture?
and [2] are the edges / corners significantly improved when compared to the older 28mm?
Regards,
Scott
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Regarding the new 28mm, couple of questions:
[1] how many blades for the aperture?
and [2] are the edges / corners significantly improved when compared to the older 28mm?
Hi Scott.
[1] - no idea; not on the spec sheets, but should be able to tell you next week when I have one in my hand.
[2] - I won't repeat their claims, because they don't matter. Only real world results matter, so we will post test files compared to the 28D as soon as we can.
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Predictions: Pentax will blow it up with the 645D2 at their home show in Japan. Pentax may in fact become the dominant player in the MFD industry if they can add better tethering and keep prices at a reasonable level. Another prediction: I will have a Leica M by March, and maybe an M-E if the shutter is silent like an M6, or close to it.
If your a professional that uses equipment to it's fullest forget about announcekina just look at what's really offered today.
This seems to be the year (or decade) where the camera companies said, to heck with the pros, let's go after the consumers, you know like those guys at Apple.
The Leica's M and S probably are the best bets regardless of price, because they can be cameras you use for a long time. The issue with Leica is reliability and service and if you own and don't rent, it's a risk to go out without exact backups, in everything so the S system with two bodies and a handful of lenses is right up there with a good S-class Mercedes.
Like TM I sent a lens into Leica for repair, months later it came back in exactly the same condition. Mind boggling, considered they charged me for it.
I'm sure there is a better dealer than who I used but burn me once . . .
Everything else is close to a yawn. Canon makes another 20 something megapixel black dslr. OK, thanks, I thought that was covered.
Nikon started shipping D800's months ago so I guess had nothing to really talk about, but since they covered three territories, seasoned pros, advanced amateurs, beginning pros, with one camera, I don't think they really needed to say much.
Personally, for still cameras, I just want one or two systems that covers more than what's offered.
We do a lot of traveling to Europe and Asia. Obviously I don't take everything I use on a plane but as of today we have 52 case of cameras, lenses and lights so even if I take a third of that, every camera case with the airlines overage is getting very expensive, not to mention what it takes to maintain multiple systems. Now a good part of these 52 cases is from adding motion imagery with the RED's so there's not much I can do about that, but as far as stills I would think at this point in time there is a better way.
My Nikons shoot fast and focus like a laser but I don't like the color and when tethered I don't like that the lcd that blanks out. My Canons are ok, getting a little long in the tooth, but they really don't get my heart racing.
I rented a 5d3 for a project a month ago and it shot everything well, had better focus than my 1ds3's and my 5d2, but the file was too smooth. I can't explain what too smooth is but it looked way too digital for me.*
The new Phase backs, I'm sure are great because my backs seem to run and run and never have a glitch, but it's the age old question of what do you put them on? I know they offer one in a Contax mount but I'm sure the first time I walk into a dealer I'll be told it takes 3 months to get a mount other than a DF and if people like the DF that's great but everytime I've tried that camera in it's many forms, I just shake my head.
Like TM I also agree Pentax could own the medium format world, for price and for use, but they're so Japanese market centric does anybody know if it tethers and when they're going to fill the holes in the lens line?
Sony also could be a world beater and seems to innovate with multiple focus systems and a fixed mirror, but once again the Zeiss lenses (which are amazing) are rather scarce and does it tether, does it tether fast can you get CPS type of repair?
Sony just doesn't seem to get traction in the professional still world and I'm a little surprised by that, considering they have the ability to make any sensor, their quality is usually legendary and there must be a billion dealers around the world.
IMO
BC
*Speaking of too smooth, we just picked up a project and the AD, singled out images she liked from our website. Every image she selected, from fashion, to sports to lifestyle was shot with a non AA filter, CCD camera, from the older DCS 760, to the M8 Leica and my Phase backs.
I've seen client's fixate on different things, but never have someone look at a body of work and spot what was a CCD and what was a cmos. One comment was she thought those images were from film and I said no, just older cameras. She said great, they look special, less digital.
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Hello,
As I suspected the new Schneider has the same 14 elements and 10 groups as the Mamiya/Phase 28mm D lens.
So in reality it is a relabelled D lens with a leaf shutter in it and not a complete redesign optical by Schneider.
Cheers
Simon
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The new Phase backs, I'm sure are great because my backs seem to run and run and never have a glitch, but it's the age old question of what do you put them on? I know they offer one in a Contax mount but I'm sure the first time I walk into a dealer I'll be told it takes 3 months to get a mount other than a DF and if people like the DF that's great but everytime I've tried that camera in it's many forms, I just shake my head.
Just as a point of correction the Phase One IQ can be had on 1-2 weeks notice in any of the mounts.
You might have rightly gotten that idea because when they were brand new and had just started shipping they prioritized shipping of the DF systems. Sor of like Nikon's D800E shipped only after the D800 shipped in quantity (at least as I understand it).
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I just don't get it....! I don't....
Photoki...? Wha...? Who cares...?
I care about taking photos, lots of them, with incredible light, talent etc.... the kit I have is better than the kit I had 10 yrs ago and whoa is it better than the kit I had 20 yrs ago.
I'm not waiting for Phase or Hassy to develop the uber camera, it's like buying a house, the one one you really want doesn't exist...
We are in a DEEP LONG recession, I don't want Phase or Hassy to go under because they developed a new wonder body and no one bought it because they all bought D800's... No I want a sensible company who are still around and still offering me support.
I've owned and used H1's H2's with 22mp and 39mp backs, I've owned and used AFD's, AFD II's AF's and now DF's... it's a mac/pc canon/nikon thing... They are all great and in the right hands they are more than great..
And finally......
It wasn't five minutes ago that we were all complaining of 'constant upgrades'... 'more upgrades... why... do i need these pixels...'
The one time the manufacturers just simply refine what they have, and everyone is 'disappointed'.
In all my life I have never seen busy, successful photographers complain about their kit, 7 yrs in NYC and yes I've seen kit abused but I've never heard busy photographers have a go at the manufacturers saying 'build me a better camera...'
They just get on, get out there, shoot more and take a spare..!!!
DOUG PETERSON
You are doing a heck of a job coming on here and taking hit after hit for the team.... As an occasional customer of CI, they play with a straight bat and want to help you whenever possible... Keep your head up Doug amidst the sea of negativity...
I love my DF... Love my LS lenses but above all I love to get out there an use them and then sell the results...!!!!!
You won't hear me complain about lack of development... Just remember people a few short years ago we never had MF AF... or lightroom even...! or non destructive ajustments, or auto white balance, or noiseless ISO 800 and beyond.
We had heavy old kit, big stinky darkrooms (ahhh the smells) waiting for film development, scanning (YUK.!) film and dev costs, murky green polaroids......
If you look back at these photokina 2012 posts... we sound like a lot of spoilt brats who just want more and cannot see the wood for the trees...
Sermon endeth here...
S
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If your a professional that uses equipment to it's fullest forget about announcekina just look at what's really offered today.
.......
Nikon started shipping D800's months ago so I guess had nothing to really talk about, but since they covered three territories, seasoned pros, advanced amateurs, beginning pros, with one camera, I don't think they really needed to say much.
.......
I guess you totally missed the D600. 24MP uncompressed HD out and for $ 2,000. I can assure you that for young upcoming photographers and film makers that is a very significant announcement.
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DOUG PETERSON
You are doing a heck of a job coming on here and taking hit after hit for the team.... As an occasional customer of CI, they play with a straight bat and want to help you whenever possible... Keep your head up Doug amidst the sea of negativity...
I love my DF... Love my LS lenses but above all I love to get out there an use them and then sell the results...!!!!!
Thanks Steve! Though I have moved from CI to the New York Phase/Mamiya/Leaf/Profoto/Arca/Cambo dealer called Digital Transitions.
And I really don't mind. Most of the time the forum is very fair (both positive and negative). I think the largest source of frustration here is that many on the forum view Photokina as a "show it or blow it" event - i.e. if you don't show something it doesn't exist and you haven't been working on it. One of the downsides of that philosophy has been companies* announcing something which is, in reality just a prototype, and then missing promised shipping dates by months, or even years. I'd rather see all companies be in the mindset of showing things only when they are really close to shipping.
I think you'll really like the 240LS when it ships. Even the engineers (who are usually hard to excite - as opposed to marketing folks who are hard to calm down) have told me how excited they are for this lens.
*There are examples of this from every company, including Team Phase One.
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My post wasn't about make it or break it during Photokina.
We all know that modern Photokina has become a vehicle for announcements that are really TBD at a later time.
It's more about the mediocre tone that a lot of the world seems to be stuck in and the fact that anything qualifies as news and just saying something gives every company or person their 15 minutes in the sun.
Doesn't it make all of us wonder if the resource spent on Mamiya went to Rollei instead, what kind of camera system we would really have?
I'm sorry if it ruffles feathers but on the DF + but slightly better autofocus and a Leaf shutter lens to me doesn't really qualify for major breaking news that warrants e-mails flooding our mailboxes.
Not when the Hasselblad H has had this for a long time.
I'm glad (honestly) that that guy loves his DF camera, but somewhere down deep doesn't it just slightly make him po'ed that another DF is on the horizion that looks, acts and works just like the last, but is considered "new".
Keep in mind it was dealers and reps that repeatedly "hinted' at a new Mamiya and I think it was a basic assumption this would be the time.
Regardless . . .
I wasn't wild about the days of buying $30,000 digital backs, but am less enamored when the major news news during the world's biggest photo show is about exotic skin covered rebadged Sonys, slightly better focus Mamiyas and "finally" a reliable way to quickly check focus on a Leica.
If your working in the commercial arts, pushing forward and not trying to be Jimmy Buffett playing Margartiville for the 90,000 time, you know that it's going to take a lot of effort to sell an idea that is more than what was done before.
The cameras and equipment we had yesterday and have today will do what was done before, but how about tomorrow. How about something we haven't even dreamed of yet.
The only reason to make a photo, a drawing, a motion picture, a musical composition is to get people to stop look/and or listen.
Sure, the cameras and tech of the past allow for great creativity and no camera will "make you creative", but some cameras can stop you in your tracks, if they won't go to floor level, or jam, or won't focus.
There is more innovation in the I-phone camera than most professional cameras and honestly your typical Apple employee knows more about their product than some dealers.
Today i looked at an S-2 and the Leica guy, who was ancient, when I asked about tethering said, "I know nothing of computers, don't want to". On that I walked, though it seems like one hell of a camera.
I can't imagine how well the Leica S would sell if there was real stock, real information, tethering, live view and better repair/rental service.
Anyway when it comes to innovation, somewhere, somehow we're kinda stuck in 2006.
How about touch screen autofocusing, anti shake video and wi-fi not to only a dedicated ad-hoc system but wi-fi to anyplace in the world and how about that coming from professional systems, not just consumer phones.
How about autofocus that will track a face across a frame, (realiabily) in still and motion. How about a combination file at 5k that has the sharpness of a still and also plays in motion?
How about something I and others just haven't thought that we needed yet?
How about something that is real news.
IMO
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Doug,
Sorry for the oversight, living in NYC for 7 yrs I know the guys at DT quite well, do say hi to Michelle back now in Denmark or Sweden I think.
Am in London/Europe for the remainder of 2012 so will bug the guys here on the 240 LS.
Cooter,
I see your point but what are you waiting for at these events...?
Yes you love Rollei but they were never in all the rental houses, never 2nd to Hassie back in the day so anyone trying to get Rollie ' up there' would have a tough task when Mamiya was already there and kit both new and used was plentiful.
Look how tough it is for Sony to get their top DSLR up there, when it came out they really pushed it in the NYC rental houses and had big stands at PhotoExpo etc... You could rent a DSLR, 2 lenses and flash for $99 a day...!
It was aimed at assistants and seemed a good camera and a sound plan...... But where is it...?
As I said before, I used professionally both the H series and the DF and neither of them are bad, it's the old PC-MAC thing.
I found that for me I just used the cameras more, everyday and very quickly the camera and I were one.
Instead of dreaming of a better camera I go out and shoot what I see, if the auto focus is playing up, then manual it is, of the light is low, then 35mm DSLR it is......
I know what you mean about flimsy marketing, it is annoying and irritating but we are in a deep recession, survival of the fittest.... If a camera maker said to me ' no new cameras or gizmos for 5 yrs..... But we will still be here, supporting you in 5 yrs... '
I'd take that... It also means I don't have think about upgrading anything (we never needed too before) and I can set that money aside for marketing, personal work or a new kettle.
:)
Maybe without a recession someone should buy Rollei and Contax and make the dream camera but to a man no one would take better pictures with.
Steve
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Steve,
We're (I'm) not waiting for anything.
Shot today, Shot tonight, in post production all weekend, preproduction and shoot next week, then to NY for pre pro, then shoot, then . . . well you get the idea.
And my point is not disappointment in the Photo show, any photo show because I know what they've become . . . a PR fest and good ol' get together to slap backs, though don't kill the messenger for asking about a new Mamiya considering the dealers have been saying it's coming for a long time.
It's not about cameras, we all know older cameras do pretty much what new ones do. It's about inspiration, moving forward, investment in R+D.
Today the Endeavor flew over my head, (of course it was mounted on a 747) Everyone in our studio was stoked . . . I was somewhat sad to think now to go into space we gotta rent a Russian can.
It makes me think with all the strides we've made, everyone has hit the brakes for the last few years and the reasoning as to why is less than inspiring, it's a total buzz kill about why almost everything can't be done.
Nobody goes anywhere thinking it can't be done.
I know I, we, everyone can do better, but it takes risks.
Every morning I listen to some of the wall street Journal videos, I love the special sections where they interview successful ceos from around the world and they have one thing in common, they all talk about taking risks, making investment and moving forward.
But am I waiting, no.
That wasn't my point.
IMO
BC