Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Deardorff on July 24, 2012, 08:12:49 pm

Title: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: Deardorff on July 24, 2012, 08:12:49 pm
Have and use a Lumix Lx5 and like it. Fits in a shirt pocket and on news assignments I use it at times rather than the EOS 1 gear - as it is less threatening to some folks.

Works well and the images look good. Even use it for photos of Northern Lights.

Best for me is the 24mm equivalent at the wide end.

Now Panasonic is coming out with the LX7 which is f/1.4 at 24mm and f/2.3 at 90mm. Has some ED glass in the lens as well. Looks like I'll be upgrading shortly and then selling the LX5 if the new one has files as clean and nice as what I have.

Even more amazing is a new FZ200 with a 25-600 f/2.8 lens on it. Stays f/2.8 even at 600mm equivalent.

Am waiting for more on it and if it is half what it looks like the cheap folks at the paper may end up with one for the reporters to carry around.

Panasonic have some nice gear, don't they?
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: DaveL on July 25, 2012, 01:41:08 pm
They do; it suits many people. dpreview has quite a few. I believe it is a "cult" camera, as the LX3 was. I had one with an EVF; I hated rigging that, and taking it off...I'm an x-ski instructor and wanted the EVF for skiing shots. But I wanted to be mainly skiing...

When I read the review, it appeared to me that the new chip is smaller than the LX5? Is that true? Let's see photos from the LX7. Looking forward to it.

DaveL
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: Fips on July 25, 2012, 02:57:22 pm
I still use my LX3 as my semi-pocketable camera und looking to upgrade at some point. I believe you are right, Dave. The LX7 does indeed have a smaller sensor while the whole camera got a bit bulkier.  I guess it will face some strong competition form the latest offerings by Samsung and Sony.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: BJL on July 25, 2012, 03:44:54 pm
When I read the review, it appeared to me that the new chip is smaller than the LX5? Is that true?
Slightly smaller sensor (6.7x5.1mm vs 7.4x5.6mm) but significantly brighter lens with lower minimum f-stops and larger effective aperture diameter (f/1.4-2.3 vs f/2-3.3) so the lens can deliver light to the sensor faster and gives a bit less DOF wide open. So I would not worry about the 10% linear reduction in sensor size.

DPReview has a convenient way of weighing aperture ratios against format sizes when comparing DOF control (and overall light-gathering speed): an "equivalent aperture range" or "35mm format equivalent aperture ratio", as used in the comparison table here:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-lx7

Note that near the long end, the LX7 offers a larger aperture size than even the RX-100, with the far larger sensor of the latter offset by its far higher minimum f-stop.

Some complain about this "equivalent", much as people complain about "equivalent focal lengths", but it conveys the same information as the completely respectable entrance pupil diameter (a.k.a. effective aperture diameter, focal length divided by aperture ratio), in a way that is far easier for most people to interpret.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on July 26, 2012, 04:04:11 am
The LX series was a pioneer of sorts in this type of compact camera, small and serious. I made good use of the LX1 in about 2006 I think, and later on the LX5.

However, time has moved on, and in fact the Sony RX100 will challenge this type of LX cameras; it is smaller, or about the same size, and the sensor is vastly larger, so...
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: Deardorff on July 26, 2012, 04:09:07 pm
One thing I really like about the Lx5 is 24mm equivalent at the wide end. Another is the relatively fast aperture at the long end. Manual control allows me to shoot Northern Lights and get decent images. No, not as good as the 1DMkII's but they do look nice. Being as small as it is I can carry it in a shirt pocket.

Would really like it if they made the wide end 21 or 17mm equivalent. Can't have everything tho.

Looks as if the new model has a built in intervalometer function. Will look for more info on that as it would be great to have for shooting night images. Would be nice if the battery were longer lasting for this type of feature to be even more useful.

Add in the horizon level feature and maybe my tendency to be a bit crooked at times will be corrected.

Now if they had a larger sensor with even better quality...
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: DaveL on July 27, 2012, 11:44:36 am
I still use my LX3 as my semi-pocketable camera und looking to upgrade at some point. I believe you are right, Dave. The LX7 does indeed have a smaller sensor while the whole camera got a bit bulkier.  I guess it will face some strong competition form the latest offerings by Samsung and Sony.

Thanks. It's all about getting quality. This has been an incredible series of cameras. The regrets I had (I didn't keep my LX5)
* the Electronic View Finder I added, made the camera awkward to carry (as a ski instructor for 35 years, I enjoy ski photography, but not with the EVF added to this camera)
* I found the images from the camera were ok (for my use) to ISO 400

My wife had a wonderful Sony DSC V1 years ago; the new RX100 reports here make me anxious to try one of those out.
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7... lens speed vs ISO speed
Post by: BJL on July 27, 2012, 02:54:03 pm
* I found the images from the camera were ok (for my use) to ISO 400
... the new RX100 reports here make me anxious to try one of those out.
Bear in mind that when you need ISO 400 with the f/1.4-2.3 lens of the LX7, getting the same shutter speed needs about ISO 660-1800 with the dimmer f/1.8-4.9 lens of the RX-100. My guess is that the larger sensor has a bit less than a two-stop ISO speed advantage, and if so the RX-100 wins at most focal lengths, but the LX7 wins near the long end, where high shutter speed and high ISO speeds are most needed.

I do wonder if Panasonic or Olympus will go in this direction with one of their 4/3" sensors and a lens of about f/2-5. (I think about f/5 is the limit for keeping it pocketable, with the focal lengths 2.5x time greater than with the LX7.)
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: Fips on July 28, 2012, 11:33:37 am
Quote
I do wonder if Panasonic or Olympus will go in this direction with one of their 4/3" sensors and a lens of about f/2-5. (I think about f/5 is the limit for keeping it pocketable, with the focal lengths 2.5x time greater than with the LX7.)

Good question. Personally, I'm skeptical. Such a camera would cost almost as much as a MFT and be just a wee bit smaller. And of course people wouldn't have the possibility to spend some money on lenses and become more attached to the MFT ecosystem.

But even with the tiny sensor, the LX7 suits my needs better than the RX100 with the (presumable) much better sensor. 24mm and a multi-aspect ratio sensor is a neat combination.

Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: BJL on July 31, 2012, 09:22:47 am
About a fixed lens camera with a 4/3 sized sensor.
Such a camera would cost almost as much as a MFT and be just a wee bit smaller.
Of course, if an interchangeable lens camera could be made that is only a wee bit larger than a camera with integrated lens and equally large sensor, that is a far better idea, and kits like the Panasonic GX 1 with the collapsable 14-42 G lens are getting there. But there does still seem to be a significant size advantage to an integrated unit, perhaps because the lens can telescope deep into the body when not in use, sitting about a mm from the sensor when retracted.

How close does any mirrorless camera with zoom lens attached come for front-to-back shallowness (very important for pocketability) compared to some of these big-sensor compacts?
Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: Ray on July 31, 2012, 08:14:20 pm

Even more amazing is a new FZ200 with a 25-600 f/2.8 lens on it. Stays f/2.8 even at 600mm equivalent.


That certainly is amazing. I shall be very interested to see the image quality from RAW at 600mm when this camera is reviewed. Wow! A 600/F2.8 lens that weighs only 500gms with camera body.

Of course, the sensor is unimpressively small which meens image quality above ISO 100 or 200 will suffer badly, but we should not forget that a 600mm equivalent lens on an APS-C sensor when used at F8 may require an ISO of 800 or even 1600 to get the required shutter speed, so that's the comparison that is relevant for many of us; the FZ200 at 600mm, F2.8 and ISO 100, compared with an APS-C at 600mm, F8 and ISO 800, unless you are one of those with a really expensive and heavy, full-frame 200-400/F4, or 400/2.8.

Title: Re: Panasonic Lumix LX7...
Post by: EinstStein on August 02, 2012, 03:52:47 pm
The LX7 and Fuji X10 and Canon gx1 Look vety attractive among the p&s. the first two fave fast zoom lens while the Third  has larger sensor.

I can byte the bullet on its price tag, but alas, LX7 does not come with a optical view finder.  I'd prefer X10 over LX7, but I'd put down my money when GX1 has a version with 2.8 across all focal length, ....,, or when X10 has a version with the x100's sensor.