Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: marcmccalmont on May 14, 2012, 07:51:18 pm

Title: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 14, 2012, 07:51:18 pm
Any opinions on the Nikkor 24-120 f4.0 VR as a general purpose walk around lens?
Any other options? I want a stabilized lens sharpness is more important than distortion CA and vignetting (DxO can correct those)
Tamron 24-70 2.8 stabilized? not quite enough reach.
Thanks
Marc

I've had really good luck with my Canon 24-105 IS, I got a really sharp copy, is it possible to get a sharp copy of the 24-120 f4.0 VR?
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Stephen Starkman on May 14, 2012, 07:59:29 pm
Well, it's subjective, but the 24-120 wasn't acceptable to me on the D3x. It's long gone.

However, I'm searching for the same solution for the D800e so I'll be monitoring this thread!

Stephen
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 14, 2012, 08:13:34 pm
Thom Hogan just wrote an essay about this very topic.

As far as I am concerned, my walk around lenses are 35, 50 and 85mm primes. Mostly because I have come to realize that zoom don't help me produce better casual images - they compete too much with the subject in terms of attention. Primes also offer a bit more creative options in terms of DoF, are lighter and more compact,...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Stephen Starkman on May 14, 2012, 10:01:34 pm
Just read Thom's article earlier this evening.

I agree with you about the primes and only having a short time thus far to shoot the new body I'm not yet certain where I'll head (I do have the Zeiss 35/2 and the Zeiss 100/2 which are both stunning on the D3x...)

Perhaps the alternate solution when one wants just one lens as a casual walk-about is to take another less demanding body ... but I still am looking for a one lens solution with a zoom that isn't as compromising as Nikon's current offerings.

S
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 14, 2012, 10:36:09 pm
For walking around, I'm going for the AF-S NIKKOR 85mm f/1.4G once the D800E ships, if only I knew when mine will ship! Zooms are fun, but for a camera with the potential the D800 has to offer, I want the best glass I can find. The 85mm focal length is a nice compromise, not too long and not too wide. At 1.4, it should be plenty fast for handheld work, too.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: HarperPhotos on May 15, 2012, 01:52:07 am
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/28200g.htm
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: shadowblade on May 15, 2012, 09:15:21 am
Why not the 14-24?

Or am I alone in seeing the world mainly in UWA...
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 15, 2012, 10:05:41 am
For walking around, I'm going for the AF-S NIKKOR 85mm f/1.4G once the D800E ships, if only I knew when mine will ship! Zooms are fun, but for a camera with the potential the D800 has to offer, I want the best glass I can find. The 85mm focal length is a nice compromise, not too long and not too wide. At 1.4, it should be plenty fast for handheld work, too.


The 85mm f/1.8G is the one I'd go for in that focal length. You aren't going to miss the extra half-stop , you won't miss the additional heft and size, you won't miss drawing attention to yourself, and you will appreciate the extra money in your wallet. Seriously. I don't care how rich you are or want us to think you are, the 85mm f/1.8G is the better choice for a "walk around" lens. And yes I have used the 85mm f/1.8G on a D800 and D800E. It is an excellent lens.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Doug Peterson on May 15, 2012, 10:15:04 am
Perhaps the alternate solution when one wants just one lens as a casual walk-about is to take another less demanding body ... but I still am looking for a one lens solution with a zoom that isn't as compromising as Nikon's current offerings.

I think this is largely an advantage/disadvantage myth promoted by determining overall file quality and detail by review at 100% on the screen rather than either a print of a given size or the final screen-presentation. When have you ever presented an image (in final use) as a 100% on screen image?

If you shoot handheld at borderline shutter speeds with a D800 and a D3 and review them at 100% then the D800 is likely to show more camera shake and other "imperfections" (soft corners of mediocre zoom lenses etc). But if you down rez the D800 to the size of the D3 and print them both the same size you'll notice the same or better detail in the D800.

Don't let slightly soft results at 100% at 36mp scare you away! This has been a lesson we have been teaching people in medium format for a long time. When you have, for instance, an 80mp digital back and the results are just shy of perfect at 100% on screen, the detail held in an actual print will still be absolutely phenomenal.

Lower resolution will never capture MORE detail than a higher resolution capture, but when reviewed at 100% the lower resolution capture will often appear crisper.

So taking a "less demanding" camera has some advantages:
- smaller raw file size (am I right that Nikon still does not have the option for a lower-resolution raw which Canon and Phase One have had for years??)
- easier evaluation of sharpness on the camera LCD

But otherwise I can't think of any advantages. On the images where you have the glass, aperture, and shutter speed to take full advantage of 36mp (i.e. a good prime at f/8 at a fast shutter speed and a steady body) you will have it. On the images where your technique or lens don't allow you to make full use of 36mp you'll still get raw files with as much absolute subject detail as you would with a lesser camera.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: KevinA on May 15, 2012, 11:22:55 am
It's a great phrase "walk around lens" . I'm not sure exactly what it means I suspect it means a lens I can use standing in one place so I don't have to "walk around" :-)

Kevin.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 15, 2012, 11:47:08 am
you won't miss drawing attention to yourself... Seriously. I don't care how rich you are or want us to think you are...

I'm interested in comparisons, and I do want to learn, but the additional remarks went overboard. Seriously.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: JohnBrew on May 15, 2012, 01:52:42 pm
Greg, my walk around lens is the Zeiss 50 Makro - on ANY Nikon.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 15, 2012, 02:29:39 pm
It's a great phrase "walk around lens" . I'm not sure exactly what it means I suspect it means a lens I can use standing in one place so I don't have to "walk around" :-)

Kevin.

General purpose, one lens solution, for me it was my Canon 24-105 f4 IS
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 15, 2012, 04:50:59 pm
It's looking like the 24-120 f4 VR is the only option for a mid zoom AF Stabilized lens, and the 85 1.8 as a nice AF portrait lens
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 15, 2012, 05:41:46 pm
My apologies for offending you. I was still internally reacting to someone else's braggadochio earlier in the day, not to you - whom I don't know. I will redact my comments if you like.

My basic point still stands however, and unless you will constantly choose to owrk at F/1.2 or f/1.4 the 85mm f/1.8 combined with the D800's relatively high ISO (ISO 1600 and thereabouts) performance has more than sufficient light gathering capabilities and fine detail rendering capability to make it a very viable alternative to the faster model Nikkor (or Canon or Zeiss for that matter, Once you are down to f/5.6 to f/8 the playing field is essentially level.

Off the topic but the best thing you can do for yourself once you get a D300/s, D700, D7000, D3/X/S or D800 variant is to fine tune the body's AF system to your lenses. 
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 15, 2012, 05:42:02 pm
Greg, my walk around lens is the Zeiss 50 Makro - on ANY Nikon.

Thanks, John

I have been using the Nikkor 105 for my D700 walk around (edit for clarification: AF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8G IF-ED). It is a tad on the long side, but I do like having autofocus. Macro comes in handy, too. My problem with the Zeiss options is I'm not much good with manual focus without a tripod. I've tried walking around with both the Zeiss 100 and the 35. The Zeiss lenses are well made and they do have a nicely balanced feel to them.

I got the idea of the Nikkor 85/1.4 based Reichmann's mention. But from what I am reading, Vener makes valid points for the 85/1.8. I also like Marc's choice, the 24-120 f4 VR. If I did not have a NEX-7/18-200 combo, I'd be tempted. I had not realized how much I missed having a midrange-plus zoom until I got the NEX combination, which BTW, takes me back to those days of shooting everything and anything that catches my eye! For the past few years, I had gotten into something of a rut always lugging a tripod along with a variety of manual focus lenses, most of which I have since sold on eBay.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 15, 2012, 05:45:05 pm
My apologies for offending you. I was still internally reacting to someone else's braggadochio earlier in the day, not to you - whom I don't know. I will redact my comments if you like.

Thanks, Ellis

No problem, I appreciate the apology, a redaction is not necessary.

Greg
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 15, 2012, 05:55:51 pm
I found this a worthwhile youtube video comparing the Nikon 85/1.4 to the 1.8:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqFQkZXH6uU
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 15, 2012, 08:46:24 pm
This might actually be a useful review of the 85mm f/1.8G: http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1480/cat/6

And this of the 85mm f/1.4G : http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1357/cat/12

(full disclosure: I have recently been commissioned by that site's parent site to do some writing for them.)
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 15, 2012, 09:48:24 pm
This might actually be a useful review of the 85mm f/1.8G: http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1480/cat/6

And this of the 85mm f/1.4G : http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1357/cat/12

(full disclosure: I have recently been commissioned by that site's parent site to do some writing for them.)

Those findings do provide some compelling reasons to seriously consider which lens to buy. Ellis, do you have any images that demonstrate some bokeh comparisons between the two lenses?
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: ndevlin on May 15, 2012, 10:09:45 pm

I, too, found the 24-120 to be obviously weaker than just about all of the other Nikon lenses I have.  That makes the 'sharpist' in me reject it. However, it is the perfect 'walk-around' lens. And it is no worse than the Canon 24-105. Will you miss that 20% of quality more than the missed picture? That's what we all struggle with.

Personally, I'd like a tack-sharp 35-105mm f3.5 VR. If they can make the 16-35 and 14-24 as good as they are, this has to be possible...

- N. 
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 15, 2012, 10:42:36 pm
I've shot with both lenses but not simultaneously and i am leery of making comparisons of the type you ask of two lenses used in completely different circumstances including different bodies.   I'm also not a bokeh fiend -for me what is in focus and crisply rendered is more important than what is out of focus unless the OOF areas distract you from where I want your attention to go.

Without looking at the EXIF I am pretty sure that the portrait of the gentleman against a green metal door on the Via Dolorosa in Jerusalem in my portraits/people gallery of my website (http://www.ellisvener.com)  was shot with the 85mm f/1.4G on a D3s or D3X.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Colorado David on May 15, 2012, 10:53:49 pm
I really want to like the Nikon 24-120 lens.  I keep hoping someone will review it favorably.  It would be the perfect lens to stay on the camera for a lot of situations.  If it weren't for this fear and trepidation.  I have a copy of its less than stellar predecessor which mostly lives on the shelf.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 15, 2012, 11:04:11 pm
The 24-120mm f/4G is far better than I expected it to be based on the earlier versions of this lens.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Colorado David on May 15, 2012, 11:11:15 pm
The 24-120mm f/4G is far better than I expected it to be based on the earlier versions of this lens.

Ellis, do you own one or have you just used one?
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 15, 2012, 11:32:11 pm
I've been using one on a D4, D800, and D800E since early April; "Otis" (I'm  trying ro stop calling cameras and lenses by techno jargon nomenclature) is on loan for review from Nikon. Same with the 85 Nikkors.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Colorado David on May 15, 2012, 11:37:23 pm
So are you saying you've named this lens after the drunk on the Andy Griffith Show?
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 15, 2012, 11:44:34 pm
So are you saying you've named this lens after the drunk on the Andy Griffith Show?

I've already knicknamed my 800E "Niki"
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 15, 2012, 11:47:51 pm
So are you saying you've named this lens after the drunk on the Andy Griffith Show?

Not that Otis, but after my neighbors 5 month old Chocolate  Labrador Retriever.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 15, 2012, 11:48:49 pm
I, too, found the 24-120 to be obviously weaker than just about all of the other Nikon lenses I have.  That makes the 'sharpist' in me reject it. However, it is the perfect 'walk-around' lens. And it is no worse than the Canon 24-105. Will you miss that 20% of quality more than the missed picture? That's what we all struggle with.

Personally, I'd like a tack-sharp 35-105mm f3.5 VR. If they can make the 16-35 and 14-24 as good as they are, this has to be possible...

- N. 
Nope if the 800E ends up a 18 mpx walk around camera in my hand and with my Leica R's on a tripod a 36 mpx mini MFDB I'll be happy!
I think from reading reviews the 24-120 suffers from distortion and CA more than lack of resolution, I'm hoping DxO should correct most of that?
Marc

Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 15, 2012, 11:54:12 pm
I've already knicknamed my 800E "Niki"
Marc

I'm thinking of naming the D800E "Sidd" short for "Siddhartha" for the clarity with which it sees the world.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: dturina on May 16, 2012, 02:09:25 am
Why even attempt to use D800 as a walkaround camera when it's not realistically going to show its maximum resolution? IMO it's better to get a lighter walkaround setup, m43 or NEX, and save yourself both money and trouble.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 16, 2012, 02:28:53 am
Hi,

I have seen some reports saying that the 24-120 is pretty good. Most lenses are decent at center but loose out at the corners. Lloyd Chambers ("Diglloyd") has tested a lot of lenses on his DAP page, may be worth a few dollars.

I'd suggest that Lightroom makes decent work on vignetting and chromatic aberration, at least with lens profiles. I prefer LR to DxO, but that's just me.

Personally, I use a 16-80/3.5-4.5 (Sony lens with a Zeiss label) on my Sony Alpha 77 (at 24 MP / APS-C) and it works decently.


Best regards
Erik 

Nope if the 800E ends up a 18 mpx walk around camera in my hand and with my Leica R's on a tripod a 36 mpx mini MFDB I'll be happy!
I think from reading reviews the 24-120 suffers from distortion and CA more than lack of resolution, I'm hoping DxO should correct most of that?
Marc


Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: HarperPhotos on May 16, 2012, 02:49:01 am
Gidday,

My walk around lens I use on my Nikon D3x and eventually my new Nikon D800E is a Tokina ATX Pro AF 28-80mm F2.8 lens.

Its built like a tank and at 28mm will out resolve my now sold Nikon AF28mm F2.8 D lens.

They come up for sale on EBay occasionally.

http://www.photographyreview.com/cat/lenses/35mm-zoom/tokina/at-x-280-af-pro-28-80mm/prd_84797_3128crx.aspx

http://www.tokinalens.com/products/tokina/afl-04.html

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 16, 2012, 03:54:55 am
Why even attempt to use D800 as a walkaround camera when it's not realistically going to show its maximum resolution? IMO it's better to get a lighter walkaround setup, m43 or NEX, and save yourself both money and trouble.
Yes good idea but I have a K5 and a 17-70 f4, what I'm looking for is the equivalent to the 24-105 I had on my 5DII and used a lot. I guess that's the Nikkor 24-120 f4 for the D800
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 16, 2012, 03:58:30 am
Gidday,

My walk around lens I use on my Nikon D3x and eventually my new Nikon D800E is a Tokina ATX Pro AF 28-80mm F2.8 lens.

Its built like a tank and at 28mm will out resolve my now sold Nikon AF28mm F2.8 D lens.

They come up for sale on EBay occasionally.

http://www.photographyreview.com/cat/lenses/35mm-zoom/tokina/at-x-280-af-pro-28-80mm/prd_84797_3128crx.aspx

http://www.tokinalens.com/products/tokina/afl-04.html

Cheers

Simon
I love Tokina glass (Hoya) but I'm looking for a stabilized lens, I wish Tokina had gotten into IS/VR One of my best lenses is the Tokina 100 macro unbelievable bokeh and as you focus the image size stays constant so focus stacking is easier.
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: ihv on May 16, 2012, 04:32:25 am
For me the Canon 24-105 F4 was quite a popular lens for compact travelling. So I did not hesitate long to get the Nikon 24-120 F4.
While it is not a very bright aperture lens the stabiliser is pretty good. At 24mm the distortion was even stronger compared to Canon 24-105 but as this is more of uniform type it can be easily fixed. I don't have yet much experience with the lens but initial tests seem to be satisfying for me.

Not a striking subject but considering relatively slow shutter speed pretty decent.

Handheld at 120mm f8 1/50 iso6400:

modified: hum, doesn't seem to show the bigger image, it is not clickable?

(http://ihvweb.net/tmp/refs/d800_0481.jpg)
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 16, 2012, 06:56:35 am
For me the Canon 24-105 F4 was quite a popular lens for compact travelling. So I did not hesitate long to get the Nikon 24-120 F4.
While it is not a very bright aperture lens the stabiliser is pretty good. At 24mm the distortion was even stronger compared to Canon 24-105 but as this is more of uniform type it can be easily fixed. I don't have yet much experience with the lens but initial tests seem to be satisfying for me.

Not a striking subject but considering relatively slow shutter speed pretty decent.

Handheld at 120mm f8 1/50 iso6400:

modified: hum, doesn't seem to show the bigger image, it is not clickable?


Nice B&W conversion the bird feeder reminds me of a bird house I made, carved the face of a cat on the front with the hole the cats mouth. Just ordered a 24-120 (newegg had them in stock) I'll give it a try my 24-105 was pretty darn good maybe I'll get lucky with a sharp copy of the 24-120.
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 16, 2012, 07:05:05 am


I'd suggest that Lightroom makes decent work on vignetting and chromatic aberration, at least with lens profiles. I prefer LR to DxO, but that's just me.


Maybe I should give lightroom a try? I've been using C1 for my phase one DB's and cameras w/o DxO lens modules and DxO for most of my DSLR stuff because of the lens modules but perhaps it's time to give LR a try
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: JohnBrew on May 16, 2012, 07:12:57 am
I really want to like the Nikon 24-120 lens.  I keep hoping someone will review it favorably.  It would be the perfect lens to stay on the camera for a lot of situations.  If it weren't for this fear and trepidation.  I have a copy of its less than stellar predecessor which mostly lives on the shelf.

Check out Moose Peterson, he seems to be in love with this lens.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: JohnBrew on May 16, 2012, 07:38:42 am
Those findings do provide some compelling reasons to seriously consider which lens to buy. Ellis, do you have any images that demonstrate some bokeh comparisons between the two lenses?
Greg, there are good bokeh comparisons on Photozone for these two lenses. One man I know of, bought both, and after comparison sent the 1.8G back. My personal opinion is if you want a lens for walking around the 1.8G would be better because of the size and weight. For tripod work and critical sharpness I would go with the 1.4G (and I did  :))
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: dturina on May 16, 2012, 09:48:16 am
Yes good idea but I have a K5 and a 17-70 f4, what I'm looking for is the equivalent to the 24-105 I had on my 5DII and used a lot. I guess that's the Nikkor 24-120 f4 for the D800
Marc

Why not make it simple and just take a prime? 24mm, if you like it wide, maybe a 50mm in the pocket. Both would be lighter than a proper zoom.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Colorado David on May 16, 2012, 09:49:36 am
Check out Moose Peterson, he seems to be in love with this lens.

Well I watched a video on the Moose Peterson web site that seemed to be more of a commercial than a review.  His only negative was the retaining detent for the lens hood.  I'm still dubious.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 16, 2012, 12:30:16 pm
Greg, there are good bokeh comparisons on Photozone for these two lenses. One man I know of, bought both, and after comparison sent the 1.8G back. My personal opinion is if you want a lens for walking around the 1.8G would be better because of the weight. For tripod work and critical sharpness I would go with the 1.4G (and I did  :))

Photozone did provide excellent reviews on both lenses, and the 1.8 compared surprisingly well considering the price difference. I viewed a variety image samples taken at large apertures to get a better feel for bokeh comparisons, and I was equally impressed! I'll quote a line from Photozone's conclusion on the 85/1.8G.

Quote
The biggest surprise is probably the bokeh quality, which is not right up there on the benchmark level set by 85mm f/1.4 lenses, but quite close.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 16, 2012, 12:44:34 pm
Well I watched a video on the Moose Peterson web site that seemed to be more of a commercial than a review.  His only negative was the retaining detent for the lens hood.  I'm still dubious.

I remain dubious as well. On the likes of a D800/800E, the Nikkor 24-120 f/4G VR arguably shortchanges the image sensor. I'm going to stay with primes on the 800E and enjoy zooms on the NEX7. For that matter, I'll probably not do much walking around with the D800E, but eventually purchase a Nikkor 85MM as I desire having that focal length available. I'm still torn between the Nikkor 85 f/1.4G and f/1.8G, but I'm leaning towards the f/1.8. Decisions decisions...

Photozone's review:

http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/574-nikkorafs24120f4vrff
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 17, 2012, 10:24:47 am
When looking to purchase anything that is not immediately disposable it is good to look at reviews from a number of sources (but I can't remember when I last paid any attention to Moose's "reviews"). Different organizations have different testing procedures and are not testing the same lens. Considering different points of view therefore allows you to come to form your own informed general opinion.

In that spirit here is another review of the Nikon 24-120mm f/4G AF-S lens: http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1358/cat/13

As with all http://www.slrgear.com reviews  when you click on the results graph, a new window opens up and you can see how well the individual lens that was tested by them performs from the center to the corners at various apertures and focal lengths (http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/zproducts/nikon24-120f4g/ff/tloader.htm ) the flatter response and the lower to the floor of the graph space the better the lens performs. so you are not just looking at one metric.  As with most zooms at a middle range aperture and focal length the better behaved this lens is.

I am still doggedly of the opinion that zoom lens range should be no greater than 3x (i.e, 24-72mm rather than the 5x range of the 24-120mm of this Nikkor or the 4.375x range of the similar Canon 24-105mm f/4L) as this limits the nyumber of compromises that are made to shoehorn in those extra mm's. But on the other hand I also agree with my friend Jay Maisel's  good point when he argues for being willing to give a little bit of quality as opposed to only making hypothetical photos because that optimum quality single focal lens you've got mounted is the wrong one for the photo you want to make.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: ndevlin on May 17, 2012, 10:36:42 am
Nope if the 800E ends up a 18 mpx walk around camera in my hand and with my Leica R's on a tripod a 36 mpx mini MFDB I'll be happy!
I think from reading reviews the 24-120 suffers from distortion and CA more than lack of resolution, I'm hoping DxO should correct most of that?

That's not what I saw. I saw pure lack of sharpness in the corners on all sides. I don't give a rat's ass about CA or 'distortion', especially the later in a  'walk-around-lens' will never be seen. 

It's way better than the abysmal previous 24-120, but it's not a stellar optic.  It's just really convenient.

- N.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 17, 2012, 10:41:18 am
I think from reading reviews the 24-120 suffers from distortion and CA more than lack of resolution, I'm hoping DxO should correct most of that?

Lightroom 4.1rc2 does a bang up job of correcting those kinds of distortions.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Petrus on May 17, 2012, 11:05:30 am
A fast 28mm and semi-fast 85 or 100mm would make a great pair of primes for walking around. I used to recommend zooms before the dust removal systems were included in the DSLR bodies. Dust removal works so well now that I am not afraid to change lenses anymore. When on a lengthy assignment I always take a 28/1.8 for the off-duty evenings, as I can not leave the hotel without a camera but do not want to carry a 24-75 2.8.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: stever on May 17, 2012, 09:07:20 pm
from the various posts, different people do a lot of different kinds of walking around.  my foreign travel walking around experience is that frequently don't know what i'm going to find and that lot's of good stuff is never going to be there long enough to change lenses (i suspect this is the reason that Michael has posted so many interesting shots from the NEX 7 using a zoom of limited performance).

walking around has tradeoffs and at some point the search for IQ can change walking around into a photo shoot with much more limited and defined goals (and possibilities)

i use a 5D2 and 24-105 and no, i'm not happy with the performance wide open -- but it's given me a huge number of images that would not have been possible with a prime

i am considering another alternative based on lensrentals.com's test of the new Tamron 24-70.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 18, 2012, 09:16:38 am
from the various posts, different people do a lot of different kinds of walking around.  my foreign travel walking around experience is that frequently don't know what i'm going to find and that lot's of good stuff is never going to be there long enough to change lenses (i suspect this is the reason that Michael has posted so many interesting shots from the NEX 7 using a zoom of limited performance).

walking around has tradeoffs and at some point the search for IQ can change walking around into a photo shoot with much more limited and defined goals (and possibilities)

i use a 5D2 and 24-105 and no, i'm not happy with the performance wide open -- but it's given me a huge number of images that would not have been possible with a prime

i am considering another alternative based on lensrentals.com's test of the new Tamron 24-70.

No question about it, a zoom is far more conducive to spontaneity, and that is why the NEX-7 with its 18-200 is perhaps today's best walk-around system. The size of the camera and the size of the lens are both part of the walk-around equation. I've walked around with a a D700 attached to a 70-200 zoom and always felt like I was bringing unwanted attention! Most of us like being inconspicuous when walking around with a camera.

What one is comfortable walking around with is a three-part question: head game, size/weight, and quality. As compact as the D800 is, one could argue that point-and-shoot cameras with their crappy 10X zooms make for a better walk-around system. I like to tell a story when I'm walking around... the less encumbering the system, the more conducive. But I also have an anal side that gets in the way of more practical equipment. We first have to answer why we are walking around... "story telling?" or "capturing professional quality files?" It would be nice to have both options in one system. The D800/800E is an outstanding camera, but I'd argue it is not a good walk around camera, it really comes down to the personality of the user.

When it comes down to the shutter bug in all of us, a separate walk around system is perhaps a better approach than trying to come up with a better walk around lens.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 18, 2012, 09:54:49 am
"I've walked around with a a D700 attached to a 70-200 zoom and always felt like I was bringing unwanted attention!"

and I've been on an all day walk-a-round with a photographer  using a D3X and a 70-200mm f/2.8 who drew almost no attention to himself and got fantastic candid shots.

I think this is a state of mind for the photographer as much as anything else. The more comfortable you are with what you are doing, the more fluid you are with your camera, the more invisible one can be.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 18, 2012, 10:12:10 am
"I've walked around with a a D700 attached to a 70-200 zoom and always felt like I was bringing unwanted attention!"

and I've been on an all day walk-a-round with a photographer  using a D3X and a 70-200mm f/2.8 draw almost no attention to himself and get fantastic candid shots.

 I think this is a state of mind for the photographer as much as anything else. The more comfortable you are with what you are doing, the more fluid you are with your camera, the more invisible one can be.

I agree. And I admit, I'm too self conscious, but that is me. I suppose I could pay a shrink instead of paying Sony?
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ray on May 18, 2012, 09:13:26 pm
If anyone is concerned about drawing attention to himself, then better not walk around with two cameras and lenses around your shoulders as I often do. I can't remember the number of times I've been asked by complete strangers why I carry two cameras.

The reason of course is obvious. I get the benefits of a zoom lens of a quality and range that simply cannot be bought at any price. The Nikkor 14-24/2.8 attached to my D700, plus the 24-120/F4 attached to my D7000, results effectively in my having a good quality zoom lens with a range from 14-180mm. That's very useful.

Now it's true that a good prime used in ideal conditions will usually produce sharper results than any zoom, and there's no doubt that a crisp, sharp image with every strand of hair clearly delineated is a joy to behold.

However, if one is walking around, presumably trying to capture the moment, the full sharpness benefits of a prime lens will often not be achieved, unless one excludes all those shots that one knows will likely need cropping because one didn't have the time or opportunity to get oneself into a position and distance from the subject for the best composition.

Now, I admit that I almost always use my 24-120/F4 with the DX D7000 which crops the edges where resolution is sometimes not too good. Edge and corner resolution could be a problem when this lens is used with the D800.

However, let's get things into perspective. The Photozone tests are quite revealing. The 24-120/F4 is sharpest between focal lengths of 24mm to 50mm. Beyond 50mm resolution begins to decline, both in the centre and at the edges.

If one compares the Photozone results for this zoom at 24mm, with the Nikkor AF-S 24/1.4 prime, both lenses tested on the D3X body, one finds the 24mm prime, at its sharpest aperture of F4, is indeed sharper in the centre than the zoom at 24mm and F4. The results are 3784 Line-Widths-per-Picture-Height (or line pairs per picture height) for the zoom, and 3990 for the prime.

The prime is delivering 206 more LW/PH in the centre of the image (extrapolated to the full frame). That's 5.5% more resolution. Wow! I'm so excited.

Let's engage in a bit of basic maths. If I zoom from 24mm to 48mm, I've essentially cut the image in half along both dimensions, resulting in a composition of 1/4th of the area.

If we compare the central portion from both images, where they are both sharpest, the 24mm prime (at its sharpest aperture of F4) will have 5.5% more resolution than the zoom.

Supposing I crop that central portion of the image with the zoom at the time I take the shot, instead of later cropping it in postprocessing. In other words, instead of using 24mm with the zoom, I use a 5.5% greater focal length, which would be 25.132mm. Call it 26mm if you like. Have we not cancelled out that resolution advantage of the 24mm prime?

Maybe we haven't. Maybe there are other considerations and factors that have escaped me. Please feel free to comment.

Of course, I understand there may be other desirable features of any particular prime compared with a zoom, such as a nicer bokeh and a wider maximum aperture for shallow DoF. However, the advantages of VR in a walk-about lens, which many Nikkor primes lack, may often outweigh the advantages of a wider aperture, unless achieving a very shallow DoF is the objective.

I should have added also, that in order to achieve that extra crispness that a prime lens may make possible, one needs a fast shutter speed at a reasonably low ISO. Increasing ISO tends to reduce resolution.

Bernard claims he is able to get sharp results with a prime lens without VR at a shutter speed of 1/2FL. If such shutter speed is only attainable at ISO 6400, then one might have to compare the results at a shutter speed of 4/FL using a lesser quality lens with VR at a lower ISO. In other words, say, 1/400th with a 200mm prime at ISO 6400, as opposed to 1/50th with a VR zoom at 200mm and ISO 800. Which would be better?  ;D
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: stever on May 19, 2012, 11:21:35 am
comfort - my "walking around" has become much more relaxed and comfortable with a Blackrapid strap (or more often my less bulky knockoff using Blackrapid hardware with an Upstrap bag strap).  whether it's less conspicuous or not (i think it is), i feel less awkward and the camera is consistently quicker to get to the eye - and back to carry - and comfortable all day long even with bigger glass.  also way better when using two cameras
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: bdosserman on May 21, 2012, 09:52:35 pm
I recently placed an order for a D800e, and based on MR's recommendation (and those of others on this forum), I intend to get the 24-120mm to go with it. It will be my personal version of a walk-around lens, which is what I think of as a "friends and family" lens. That is, when I'm on a trip somewhere photogenic with friends and/or family, and I'd like the people in question to remain friends and/or family, I will use this lens to avoid driving them crazy. When practical, I'll also have my GH2 with 100-300mm lens to use for wildlife.

In the long term, I also plan to get some sharp primes for use when I'm on my own and can take my time. I'll probably get the 150mm Sigma macro lens right away. Haven't yet decided whether to get standard primes, or tilt/shift. I'm tempted to wait to see if Nikon is planning on releasing updated versions of their tilt/shifts, as I'd really prefer if the tilt and shift axes could be changed independently (at least, I think I would -- I've never used such a lens).

Brian
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 21, 2012, 11:05:55 pm
I recently placed an order for a D800e, and based on MR's recommendation (and those of others on this forum), I intend to get the 24-120mm to go with it. It will be my personal version of a walk-around lens, which is what I think of as a "friends and family" lens. That is, when I'm on a trip somewhere photogenic with friends and/or family, and I'd like the people in question to remain friends and/or family, I will use this lens to avoid driving them crazy. When practical, I'll also have my GH2 with 100-300mm lens to use for wildlife.

In the long term, I also plan to get some sharp primes for use when I'm on my own and can take my time. I'll probably get the 150mm Sigma macro lens right away. Haven't yet decided whether to get standard primes, or tilt/shift. I'm tempted to wait to see if Nikon is planning on releasing updated versions of their tilt/shifts, as I'd really prefer if the tilt and shift axes could be changed independently (at least, I think I would -- I've never used such a lens).

Brian
I have a few tilt swing lenses for my WRS (which has rear movements) and I rarely use the tilt swing in landscape work so I'd say you are safe with a single axis movement for 99.9% of the time or for the price 3 or 4 good primes would be fine for 99.6% of the time!
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 22, 2012, 12:44:54 am
In the long term, I also plan to get some sharp primes for use when I'm on my own and can take my time. I'll probably get the 150mm Sigma macro lens right away. Haven't yet decided whether to get standard primes, or tilt/shift. I'm tempted to wait to see if Nikon is planning on releasing updated versions of their tilt/shifts, as I'd really prefer if the tilt and shift axes could be changed independently (at least, I think I would -- I've never used such a lens).

Brian

You would be happy with lens quality in all current T/S lenses. I'd be surprised if Nikon updates their current lineup, but you never can be too certain. All three focal lengths are of quality glass. They also fall short in terms of mechanical precision. Like Marc, I have yet to find much use in Tilting with landscape work, but shifting is far easier and more effective then reducing tripod height.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: David Watson on May 22, 2012, 01:32:35 am
I recently placed an order for a D800e, and based on MR's recommendation (and those of others on this forum), I intend to get the 24-120mm to go with it. It will be my personal version of a walk-around lens, which is what I think of as a "friends and family" lens. That is, when I'm on a trip somewhere photogenic with friends and/or family, and I'd like the people in question to remain friends and/or family, I will use this lens to avoid driving them crazy. When practical, I'll also have my GH2 with 100-300mm lens to use for wildlife.

In the long term, I also plan to get some sharp primes for use when I'm on my own and can take my time. I'll probably get the 150mm Sigma macro lens right away. Haven't yet decided whether to get standard primes, or tilt/shift. I'm tempted to wait to see if Nikon is planning on releasing updated versions of their tilt/shifts, as I'd really prefer if the tilt and shift axes could be changed independently (at least, I think I would -- I've never used such a lens).

Brian

The new Tamron 24-70 with image stabilisation is by all accounts as good as the Nikon 24-70 (with the added benefit of the IS) and should be way better than the 24-120.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 22, 2012, 09:30:42 am
well I received the 24-120 today kind of rainy in Tokyo so just a few test shots to see how it holds up to a Leica 28-90R
I think it will be just fine as a walk around lens both shot at f5.6, deconvolution sharpening .7, manual focus w/liveview
it seems the D800E out resolves the 24-120 but the fine detail of the Leica 28-90 is preserved, I focused on the seam in the textured wallpaper
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: bdosserman on May 22, 2012, 10:24:01 am
You would be happy with lens quality in all current T/S lenses. I'd be surprised if Nikon updates their current lineup, but you never can be too certain. All three focal lengths are of quality glass. They also fall short in terms of mechanical precision. Like Marc, I have yet to find much use in Tilting with landscape work, but shifting is far easier and more effective then reducing tripod height.

Yes, I understand that the quality is quite good. I just am intrigued by the possibilities involving tilt/swing, and would be interested in experimenting with it.

Brian
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: bdosserman on May 22, 2012, 10:27:14 am
The new Tamron 24-70 with image stabilisation is by all accounts as good as the Nikon 24-70 (with the added benefit of the IS) and should be way better than the 24-120.

This is good to know, but looking over my favorite landscapes, I find that some of them were taken around 105mm, so I think a 24-70mm (which was what I was originally planning on getting prior to Michael's review, paired with a single longer prime) just doesn't have the reach I want. I might still go back to my original plan (and if so I'll definitely check out the Tamron), but the idea of being able to work effectively without switching lenses at all is very appealing for when I'm not alone.

Brian
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: bdosserman on May 22, 2012, 10:28:44 am
well I received the 24-120 today kind of rainy in Tokyo so just a few test shots to see how it holds up to a Leica 28-90R
I think it will be just fine as a walk around lens both shot at f5.6, deconvolution sharpening .7, manual focus w/liveview
it seems the D800E out resolves the 24-120 but the fine detail of the Leica 28-90 is preserved, I focused on the seam in the textured wallpaper
Marc

Good to know; thanks for sharing. I'm hoping I may get mine before traveling to China and Japan and Brazil this summer.

Brian
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 22, 2012, 07:18:28 pm
Yes, I understand that the quality is quite good. I just am intrigued by the possibilities involving tilt/swing, and would be interested in experimenting with it.

Brian
Brian
Never used one but how about a Cambo X2 pro?
http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_photo/set01/english/internet/Item752.html
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 22, 2012, 08:58:54 pm
Brian
Never used one but how about a Cambo X2 pro?
http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_photo/set01/english/internet/Item752.html
Marc

I recently acquired a super rotator. I'm still working on how to implement effective tilt movements, it is nebulous. Having the option to shift and tilt independently may very well enable more creative opportunities, but it is far from intuitive. Independent movements have been of little benefit in my hands thus far. I mostly got the lens for the quality of glass. It makes a good walk around lens, too... as long as you have a tripod attached to it!

Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ray on May 22, 2012, 09:21:19 pm
well I received the 24-120 today kind of rainy in Tokyo so just a few test shots to see how it holds up to a Leica 28-90R
I think it will be just fine as a walk around lens both shot at f5.6, deconvolution sharpening .7, manual focus w/liveview
it seems the D800E out resolves the 24-120 but the fine detail of the Leica 28-90 is preserved, I focused on the seam in the textured wallpaper
Marc


Have you mislabelled the shots, Marc? I see greater fine detail in the Nikkor 24-120 crop. On the other hand, the full image from the Leica lens shows far less vignetting, suggesting that you haven't mislabelled the shots. What's going on?  ;D
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 22, 2012, 09:38:57 pm

Have you mislabelled the shots, Marc? I see greater fine detail in the Nikkor 24-120 crop. On the other hand, the full image from the Leica lens shows far less vignetting, suggesting that you haven't mislabelled the shots. What's going on?  ;D

Ray
I focused on the wallpaper seam centered in the frame. I see a longer finer line in the Leica crop. What area were you looking at? The Leica looks much more like the actual wallpaper also. The leica is less contrasty, I noticed this before when I compared my Canon lenses to Zeiss lenses. Perhaps German designs favor fine detail at the expense of contrast?
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: jgbowerman on May 22, 2012, 10:07:05 pm
Ray
I focused on the wallpaper seam centered in the frame. I see a longer finer line in the Leica crop. What area were you looking at? The Leica looks much more like the actual wallpaper also. The leica is less contrasty, I noticed this before when I compared my Canon lenses to Zeiss lenses. Perhaps German designs favor fine detail at the expense of contrast?
Marc

For what it is worth, I appreciated the difference in the seam line. Otherwise, it was very difficult to appreciate a difference short of some vignetting.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 22, 2012, 10:13:29 pm
For what it is worth, I appreciated the difference in the seam line. Otherwise, it was very difficult to appreciate a difference short of some vignetting.
In the past I've used textured wallpaper as a good test of corner softness/vignetting etc. the 24-120 holds up well @ f5.6 my Pentax 18-135 was terrible on my K5
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ray on May 22, 2012, 10:21:52 pm
Ray
I focused on the wallpaper seam centered in the frame. I see a longer finer line in the Leica crop. What area were you looking at? The Leica looks much more like the actual wallpaper also. The leica is less contrasty, I noticed this before when I compared my Canon lenses to Zeiss lenses. Perhaps German designs favor fine detail at the expense of contrast?
Marc

Marc,
To my eyes the Nikkor 24-120 shot, comparing the same areas in both crops side by side in Photoshop, appears to give an impression of finer texture, little hairs sticking out all over the place. The Leica crop seems over all smoother. On the other hand, at 200% enlargement, the Nikkor shot gives the impression of having had more sharpening. Have you applied different levels of sharpening to these images?
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 22, 2012, 10:31:34 pm
Marc,
To my eyes the Nikkor 24-120 shot, comparing the same areas in both crops side by side in Photoshop, appears to give an impression of finer texture, little hairs sticking out all over the place. The Leica crop seems over all smoother. On the other hand, at 200% enlargement, the Nikkor shot gives the impression of having had more sharpening. Have you applied different levels of sharpening to these images?

same processing no sharpening in Capture One,  focus fixer .7 f5.6 for both the hairs don't exist on the wall paper let me go look at the original files
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ray on May 22, 2012, 10:40:01 pm
same processing no sharpening in Capture One,  focus fixer .7 f5.6 for both the hairs don't exist on the wall paper let me go look at the original files
Marc

Very short hairs. Just an analogy for the finer texture I see in the Nikkor shot.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 22, 2012, 10:47:06 pm
Very short hairs. Just an analogy for the finer texture I see in the Nikkor shot.
Well It's a day off and I have the time and it is a good way to get familiar with a new camera so let me re-shoot it and see what happens!
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ray on May 22, 2012, 10:52:29 pm
The new Tamron 24-70 with image stabilisation is by all accounts as good as the Nikon 24-70 (with the added benefit of the IS) and should be way better than the 24-120.

If it's true that the Tamron 24-70 with image stabilisation is as good as the slightly heavier and more expensive Nikkor 24-70, then the choice would appear to be a no-brainer.The walk-around purpose of the lens implies that a tripod will not be used most of the time, therefore image stabilisation is of tremendous benefit.

However, I doubt that the Tamron would be as sharp as the Nikkor, but it might be in the centre. I've seen reports that the Tamron has poor edge performance on full-frame.

If a lens is for general walk-about purposes, there has to be some compromise between maximum performance under ideal conditions, and a degree of flexibility that allows one to get an acceptably sharp shot, as opposed to not getting an acceptably sharp shot and perhaps not getting the shot at all.


Certainly in that range of 24m to 70mm, the 24-70/2.8 should produce marginally, but noticeably, sharper resuslts than the 24-120/F4 does within the same range. However, between about 80mm and 120mm the situation is reversed when one compares the uncropped image from the 24-120/F4 with a 70mm shot from the 24-70/2.8 cropped to the same FoV as the 24-120 used in the range of, say, 80 to120mm.

Out of curiosity, I checked the results at Photozone again for these two lenses.

It seems the situation is far more than merely reversed. Referring to the MTF 50 results at Photozone for these two lenses, tested on the D3X, we find that the 24-70 at 70mm is sharpest at F5.6, producing 3706 LW/PH.

At 120mm the 24-120 is also sharpest at F5.6, producing 3465 LW/PH, in the centre. The difference is 241 LW/PH, or a 7% increase in resolution for the 24-70, at 70mm.

However, if we compare that increased resolution with the increased magnification of the 120mm lens compared with a 70mm lens, we find that the 120mm lens represents a 71% increase in magnification both horizontally and vertically. In other words, if both lenses were the same quality, the 120mm lens would deliver 71% more resolution than the 70mm lens, comparing equal FoV shots taken from the same position.

However, the lenses are not the same quality. The 70mm lens delivers 7% more resolution per unit area of sensor (on the D3X). Subtracting that 7% advantage we get a nett resolution advantage of a whopping 64% for the 120mm lens (71%-7%).

It seems clear that in circumstances when you need a 120mm lens for the desired composition, but your maximum focal length is only a 70mm lens because your walk-around lens is the Nikkor (or Tamron) 24-70/F2.8, then the 24-120/F4 would deliver 64% more resolution at 120mm, which is a far greater increase in resolution than the 24-70/2.8 provides within the range common to both lenses.

At 24mm the 24-70 has a resolution of 3988 LW/PH at its sharpest aperture of F4. The 24-120 at 24mm and F4, also its sharpest aperture, has a resolution of only 3784 LW/PH, 204 line pairs less.

What's the significance of this? An increased resolution of 204 line pairs over 3784, represents an increase in resolution of a mere 5.4%, which pales into insignificance compared with the 64% increase in resolution of the 120mm lens compared with the 70mm lens of the 24-70/2.8, when that image is cropped to the same FoV as the 120mm lens.

I suppose one could argue that the wider aperture of the 24-70 provides a shallow DoF advantage. On the other hand, the VR of the 24-120/F4 will often provide a qualitative advantage for hand-held shots because it enables the use of a slower shutter speed which in turn enables the use of a lower ISO with less noise.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 22, 2012, 11:16:35 pm
Ray
Just for you!
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ray on May 22, 2012, 11:32:04 pm
Well It's a day off and I have the time and it is a good way to get familiar with a new camera so let me re-shoot it and see what happens!
Marc

Focussing is absolutely critical with such shots for purposes of resolution comparison. One should also try different apertures. One lens my be sharpest at F5.6 and the other at F4, for example.

I received my D800E yesterday. Ordered it on the 9th of May; received it on the 22nd of May. If I'd ordered the D800, I guess I'd still be waiting for it.

I'm pleased that the D800E takes the same batteries as the D7000 because I already have a couple of those. No need to buy more batteries. However my 32GB SDXC card and 8GB Compact Flash card might be insufficient, so I've ordered a Sandisk Extreme Pro 16GB Compact Flash card and a Sandisk 64GB SDXC Extreme Pro card which is actually cheaper than the 16GB Compact Flash, but slower. 70GB of memory in the camera at one time should be enough for most purposes.  ;D

I intend doing some comparisons between the D7000 and the D800E, using the same zoom lenses at the same focal lengths, apertures and shutter speeds, from the same position.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ray on May 22, 2012, 11:53:26 pm
Ray
Just for you!
Marc

Marc,
I see no difference between these latest two crops. I'm viewing them on a Sony LCD monitor set at its native resolution of 1280x1024. If these are 100% crops, then effectively I'm peering at a 6ftx4ft print from a distance of a couple of feet.

If I can't see any diffierence under such conditions, then I'd say the Nikkor 24-120 is good enough.  ;D
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 23, 2012, 02:52:57 am
Marc,
I see no difference between these latest two crops. I'm viewing them on a Sony LCD monitor set at its native resolution of 1280x1024. If these are 100% crops, then effectively I'm peering at a 6ftx4ft print from a distance of a couple of feet.

If I can't see any diffierence under such conditions, then I'd say the Nikkor 24-120 is good enough.  ;D

the next thing to do is retest my lenses at different apertures to find the sweet spot for each
Marc
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: marcmccalmont on May 28, 2012, 11:00:40 pm
Had a week with the 24-120 VR and I'm Happy it's very good for what I wanted a "Walk Around" lens
Marc

In camera jpegs, default settings, AF, auto iso, auto white balance
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Jim Pascoe on May 29, 2012, 02:38:39 am
Greg, my walk around lens is the Zeiss 50 Makro - on ANY Nikon.

And on my Canon 1Ds.

Jim
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Jim Pascoe on May 29, 2012, 03:17:31 am
Marc,
To my eyes the Nikkor 24-120 shot, comparing the same areas in both crops side by side in Photoshop, appears to give an impression of finer texture, little hairs sticking out all over the place. The Leica crop seems over all smoother. On the other hand, at 200% enlargement, the Nikkor shot gives the impression of having had more sharpening. Have you applied different levels of sharpening to these images?

Am I the only one that finds this series of posts quite amusing? ;D  Is this the antithesis of 'Real world photography'.  My wife thinks I spend too much time looking at LL anyway - and if she reads these posts she will think I'm not using my time profitably!

Jim
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: OldRoy on May 29, 2012, 11:34:08 am
These days my walk-around lens is usually a minute prime attached to an MFT Olympus OMD. After years of lugging DSLRs around (and even more often leaving them at home) it's a huge relief. Of course MFT doesn't get much, er, exposure on LL. But the OMD really is very good.
Roy
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: arlon on May 29, 2012, 12:07:50 pm
I walk around A LOT. My favorite walk around setup depends on how far I'm walking. For short hikes it's a D700 with a 28-300mm VR. More than that and it's going to be something a lot lighter like a D90 with an 18-55 kit lens, a marathon and I'll just take a "pocket cam". Just got word that my D800E will be delivered this week. I am thinking that the D800E and the 28-300mm may become my new short range hiking lens.

I love the 28-300mm on FX for random shooting but it is just too heavy to lug all day. My mind may change about the D800E as a walk around camera after I use it a few times. My biggest concern is file size. I tend to shoot a lot while walking (several hundred frames this weekend on a short 2 mile walk) and I think file size may drive me back to the D700. I think the D800E is going to evolve into a camera for very specific planned shots and not a camera that is essentially going to be taking "snap shot" all day long.. Hopefully I'll have a more informed opinion soon! (-:}
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 29, 2012, 12:29:55 pm
Am I the only one that finds this series of posts quite amusing? ;D  Is this the antithesis of 'Real world photography'.  My wife thinks I spend too much time looking at LL anyway - and if she reads these posts she will think I'm not using my time profitably!

Jim

Jim ,

I was unaware that your wife and mine had been talking to each other about L-L;D
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: KevinA on May 29, 2012, 03:11:12 pm
General purpose, one lens solution, for me it was my Canon 24-105 f4 IS
Marc

I was kind of relating it to an experience I had lately.I had sometime to kill so I headed for the coast armed with a couple off Rolleiflex. The little seaside town I choose happened to have what looked like a few camera club members armed with DSLR's and no doubt a "walk around lens" attached. I thought I was having more fun than they were, if I wanted to shoot the fishermen launching the boat from the beach I had to get close, chat and do the walking around. The "Walk around lens" guys all stood rooted to the same spot zooming in and out 75 yds away. Not to say I got anything better I have no idea. At no time did I see any of them leave the prom and go down onto the beach, I stayed until the light got interesting, they went home no doubt the "walk around lens" needed a rest from all the walking around. :-)

Kevin.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: nandadevieast on January 16, 2014, 02:01:31 am
Great insight.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Rob C on January 16, 2014, 04:16:49 am
Am I the only one that finds this series of posts quite amusing? ;D  Is this the antithesis of 'Real world photography'.  My wife thinks I spend too much time looking at LL anyway - and if she reads these posts she will think I'm not using my time profitably!

Jim




Not owning a D800, I can't remember having read any of this this thread up until this morning; however, now that the first few posts have been digested and Jim's, above, found, I must say that he's absolutely right, and that it probably represents (the thread) all that's madness about this level of photography. How in the name of all that's holy, unholy, funny or even just dumb, can anyone presume that anyone else will have a sensible answer to the OP? It's the 'gear' extension of photo-critique.

Rob C
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: NancyP on January 16, 2014, 06:52:00 pm
Gee, I hope my lens doesn't walk! I know I should have bought into the anti-theft RFID and registry....
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: Steve House on January 17, 2014, 10:25:47 am
D700 rather than 800 user here but my fave walk-around lens on that camera is the Voigtlander Ultron 40mm f/2 manual focus prime.  Compact, lightweight, unobtrusive, and very sharp.
Title: Re: D800 walk around lens?
Post by: arlon on January 17, 2014, 11:07:38 am
I walk around A LOT. My favorite walk around setup depends on how far I'm walking. For short hikes it's a D700 with a 28-300mm VR. More than that and it's going to be something a lot lighter like a D90 with an 18-55 kit lens, a marathon and I'll just take a "pocket cam". Just got word that my D800E will be delivered this week. I am thinking that the D800E and the 28-300mm may become my new short range hiking lens.

I love the 28-300mm on FX for random shooting but it is just too heavy to lug all day. My mind may change about the D800E as a walk around camera after I use it a few times. My biggest concern is file size. I tend to shoot a lot while walking (several hundred frames this weekend on a short 2 mile walk) and I think file size may drive me back to the D700. I think the D800E is going to evolve into a camera for very specific planned shots and not a camera that is essentially going to be taking "snap shot" all day long.. Hopefully I'll have a more informed opinion soon! (-:}

I've now had the D800E for enough time to almost wear it out and the lens of choice for walking around is still the 28-300m AF-S. It's a very good lens and plenty sharp for big prints. Covers a lot of range and still compact enough to fit in my fanny pack for short walks or my camel back on longer hikes. I wish it was faster but then it would weight too much. I tried the 80-200mm F2.8 as a walk about but just find the 28-300mm to so much more versitile. I'd never use one of my fixed primes for a hiking lens (other than the macro I often carry with the 28-300mm).  The 28-300 also focuses pretty close and works well on any close up short of serious macro. I'm a macro addict so I often carry a 100mm Tokina in my pack as well. Those two lenses cover just about anything I can come across. Only wish my 1.4tc would work with the 28-300..