Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: pjtn on May 04, 2012, 10:01:02 am

Title: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: pjtn on May 04, 2012, 10:01:02 am
Both the Arca Swiss Z1 and Markins Q20 look awfully similar. Is one really better than the other? They're rated at similar weight tolerances and they cost almost the same. I'm looking at getting one or the other for my new Hasselblad setup.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 04, 2012, 10:31:54 am
The Markins uses a spherically shaped ball. The Arca-Swiss Z1 (as the B1 Monoball before it) uses an aspherical shaped ball. This means in practice as well as in theory that with the Z1  when the ball is neither fully unlocked or fully locked down the resistance on the ball increases as  the camera tilts away from the vertical. This makes for fewer pinched fingers when big cameras and/or  lenses are mounted, fewer unexpected flops of unbalanced loads, and more precise control over framing and leveling a camera wit ha slightly loosened main control.

Both have tension setting functions (the thumbscrews in the main control). This function sets drag on the ball based on the weight and balance of the camera and lens being mounted.

The Markins, like several others, is externally a cosmetic copycat of the Arca-Swiss B1 which is why they appear to be similar.

The one thing I really dislike about the Arca-Swiss heads is their lever clamp. For this reason, and because having a rotating platform directly underneath the camera is a better idea, I replaced the clamp on my Arca-Swiss B1 Monoball  with a Really Right Stuff PCL-1 clamp.

Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Rod.Klukas on May 04, 2012, 11:31:29 am
The Z1 heads are available with top pan as well as the traditional bottom pan for positioning.
The flip lock is not the only QR available either.  We now offer the aforementioned, fliplock lever, the classic, now smaller knob QR, and the newer, more compact 'Monoball Fix.
The Fliplock has it's issues, mostly due to the third party plate manufacturers with non standard dimensions on their plates.  RRS uses 2mm wider dove tails for instance.

Anyway the Z heads and many of our other heads do offer top-pan at this time.
Rod Klukas
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 04, 2012, 01:06:45 pm
The Fliplock has it's issues, mostly due to the third party plate manufacturers with non standard dimensions on their plates.  RRS uses 2mm wider dove tails for instance.

My experience in the field is that the fliplock design major  issue is with the non-captive design of the nut on the screw. That Arca-Swiss recognizes that people do not like to be forced to use only one brand of plate is laudable and something I wish RRS and others recognized.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: tsjanik on May 07, 2012, 08:05:26 am
I've had a Z1 for several years and find it wonderful.  When I used a Pentax 67II, the aspherical ball allowed me to adjust tension such that the camera could be repositioned and yet not have any flop issues.  The clamp is a bit fussy and seems a little over-engineered, but works fine, unless I'm wearing gloves.  I much prefer it to the traditional screw clamp on my Acratech head, where I'm never quite sure if the camera is secure.
My only real criticism of the Z1 is that it should have two cut outs in the base to allow the camera to point down.  As it is, to shot down, the tightening knob must be on the right side of the camera, requiring you to reach over with your left hand to tighten since your right hand is holding the camera - very awkward.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: pjtn on May 07, 2012, 08:21:19 am
I'm very much leaning towards the Arca Swiss Z1, it should sit nicely on my new Gitzo GT3532LS tripod. I'm hoping the new tripod will be sturdy enough to do long exposures (~5 mins) with the Hasselblad mounted on top.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 07, 2012, 12:05:27 pm
ballast hanging from the center column or on the legs helps kill  shutter, photographer or wind induced vibration.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: JohnBrew on May 07, 2012, 12:41:19 pm
A satisfied Markins user here.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: CatOne on May 09, 2012, 08:39:15 pm
My personal vote would be for the RRS BH-55; I moved to it from the Arca Swiss and much prefer the handling of the tension mechanism.  It's more compact with the same weight capacity too.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Robert DeCandido PhD on May 10, 2012, 10:01:18 am
We had the BH-55. In the field (Nepal) while a 500mm F4 lens was mounted on it, the knob for lock-down came undone - it simply became loose and then fell out of the socket!...Fortunately one of us caught the lens before it hit the ground.

When we returned to NYC we contacted RRS - they told us that was a known problem to them. The glue that holds the knob in place can disintegrate...or was not applied correctly in some cases.

Given their political stance on certain issues in California and the problem we had with their equipment, we do our best to purchase from other manufacturers now.

Deborah Allen and Robert DeCandido PhD
NYC

Do a google search for: Really Right Stuff Prop 8 California (the anti-gay marriage bill)

http://www.flickr.com/groups/865962@N20/discuss/72157612473243424/





Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: pjtn on May 10, 2012, 10:10:54 am
I've ordered the Arca Swiss Z1 from BH Photo, quite excited to see what it's like.

Personally I don't like the RRS equipment, I feel like it's overhyped. My last ball head was a BH-40 and while it was an ok head, it was not worth the money paid. The ball is not terribly smooth and the tension setting was awful. The looks are a little on the ordinary side too.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 10, 2012, 10:15:57 am
That is a shame that your BH-55 failed while in the field. I take it the  head became completely unusable? I had two Graf Studioballs seperately from the panning base while on assignment. Graf's dealer replaced the first one and the second is buried in the Mississippi river's mud offshore of Davenport, Iowa. This was in the mid 1990s. I had an Arca-Swiss B1 Monoball FedEx'd to me so I could complete the assignment. It is still in use.

You might want to explain the comment about the Johnson's politics, but I am more concerned about catastrophic equipment failure.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 10, 2012, 10:40:48 am
When you get your Z1, here is how to use the drag or tension control; mount a camera and lens combination on the head with main control fully locked. Now use your thumbe to set the drag o nthe head to full position now loosen the main control a bit  about a half turn and try moving the camera/lens combination. now start backing off the drag/tension setting you want to find a combination of main control and drag setting where you can loosen the head but it takes a little effort to actually move the camera/lens combination. The further over you push camera/lens combo the greater drag you'll feel because of the aspherical shape of the ball. Different loads will require different drag/tension settings.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: pjtn on May 10, 2012, 07:40:42 pm
Thanks for that Ellis. It sounds a lot like a video I watched on setting the tension on the Markins Q20 ball head.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 10, 2012, 07:58:01 pm
Markins "copied" (I am being polite) Arca-Swiss in this and other regards. If a head looks like an Arca-Swiss B 1 or Z1 there is a reason for it. thart doesn't mean the guts are the same.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: pjtn on May 10, 2012, 08:00:21 pm
It's a pity Markins didn't copy the Z2 and make it half the price. That would be a ball head to consider :)
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 10, 2012, 08:39:01 pm
The Arca-Swiss Z2, like the B2 it replaces,  isn't a ballhead at all; rather it is a dual tilt head, one limited in angle tilt mechanism, an asperical shell, inside another aspherical shaped shell. The twin shells provide more surface area for the clamping action than all but the heaviest duty (FOBA ASMIA) non-geared tilt head. The shared center of tilt for both movements shares a common center point which helps with keeping a camera, especially a view camera ( don't forget, Arca-Swiss is at its fundamental core a designer and builder of large format view cameras) balanced when making small movements.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: pjtn on May 10, 2012, 08:43:23 pm
You certainly know your stuff when it comes to ball heads. I've had the chance to use one very briefly and was very impressed by the way it had limited movements. I always find it a pain having to recompose fine compositions with a ball head, you always end up changing something unintentionally. Hopefully the Z1 will be better in this regard.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 10, 2012, 09:26:57 pm
I've gone through a lot of tripod heads in my years. I used to use view cameras (Sinar C, Sinar P & P2, Arca-Swiss F & FC, Canham DLC, a 5x7 Linhof Technika, and V-Pan 617 Mk.III, along with an occasional Horseman, Toyo and Calumet) quite a lot and one of the things I really, really hated was thinking I'd locked the camera down only to see it slowly settle into it's true locked (and off level) position. Very frustrating. The list of the tripod heaDs I've owned or tried is long but the list of leg sets is short: I've had my two aluminum Gitzos (a 323 and 410C)  since the mid 1980s.

Until I tried and later bought (on eBay) a Foba ASMIA and added a really Right Stuff PCL-1 clamp on top, the best head I've ever owned was the Arca-Swiss B2 monoball. The only problem the ASMIA has is it's weight: about 4 lbs. It feels like it is machined out of the steel they used to make M1 tanks out of but is amazingly smooth and precise.

The ballhead I always wanted to try but never have is the The Burzynski "Protec" ballhead, which you can read about here: http://www.naturfotograf.com/burzynski.html
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: NancyP on May 16, 2012, 08:55:36 pm
Robert, I have to say that although there are some attractive items in the RRS catalogue, I am inclined to avoid RRS stuff due to the owners' Prop 8 support. There are several other good US-based manufacturers of plates, clamps, rails, brackets, and so on. An RRS item has to be absolutely unique to earn my business.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Robert DeCandido PhD on May 16, 2012, 09:05:07 pm
Yes people are people no matter what their sexual orientation...and deserve the same rights and opportunities and respect. That the owners of a business would be against that idea is bad business sense.

I don't buy RRS - I am voting with my cash. If and when RRS changes their political stance on this issue, I will go back to purchasing their products. Right now Kirk and Arca-Swiss and others get my money.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: pjtn on May 16, 2012, 09:32:08 pm
Very interesting. Given that I don't live in the USA I had no idea about this law, but a good reason not to support their business. Rather backwards thinking and surprising they would make it publicly known.

My Arca Swiss Z1 has arrived and it seems like a very nice head indeed. Can't wait to see what it's like in actual practice but it looks very promising.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 16, 2012, 09:54:42 pm
Mr & Mrs. Johnson's sizable donation automatically showed up in a required report on campaign financing, they did not ever try to publicize it.

While I strongly disagree with them politically I support their inalienable rights to speak their minds freely, to equally freely be part of the religion of their choice, and to associate with whomever they choose - as long as they support and stand up for my inalienable rights to do the same.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: pjtn on May 16, 2012, 09:55:39 pm
Well said
Title: Re: Your ball head hasn't reached St. Louis
Post by: NancyP on May 24, 2012, 05:14:23 pm
Nor has it been found in the guts of our larger catfish/carp locally. I bet some enterprising mussel now blesses you for providing a fancy "home".

Politics: The RRS owners gave $16,000.00 to the anti-gay-marriage California Proposition 8. I personally object to this, as one of my friends is a married gay Californian.

Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 - does the base pan well for half-gimbal use?
Post by: NancyP on May 25, 2012, 07:22:59 pm
Does this aspherical ballhead pan readily when the ball is flipped and a half-gimbal (Wimberley Sidekick, Custom Brackets Basic Gimbal) is mounted to it? Gear to be mounted: Canon 60D, 400mm f5.6 lens, 580 II flash on a bracket.

Also, can one buy the Z1 without a clamp, and later install Your Favorite Clamp on it (presumably with high strength loctite, the kind that only lets go when heated with a propane torch)? The Arca clamp looks good for those who swap between different width camera rails and universal "Arca-Swiss" plates , but I don't need that feature, and I do want a screw clamp with safety stop grooves to be used with plates that have detent screws.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 25, 2012, 08:06:35 pm
Nancy P: with the stem of the ball all the way over so it is down in the notch and the ball loose it "pans" vertically very smoothly.

If you feel a need to replace the clamp it is dead easy to do. I've tried one clamp , an early Sunwayfoto, that does not fit the Arca-Swiss stem. You want to make sure your choice of clamp really fits what ever head you choose. Arca-Swiss makes several different clamps including a simple screw drive version. Whether  it has safety stops I don't know.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: NancyP on May 29, 2012, 01:27:17 pm
Thanks! The native Arca-Swiss clamp has  two-level clamp jaws that accommodate the old (widely used) AS plates and the new narrow AS-brand-only "monofix" plates. The clamp has detent pins that work for the narrow monofix plates but not for the widely used AS-style plates. I expect that I will be replacing the plain platform with a Wimberley, Kirk, or similar screw clamp with the stop grooves on either side of the stem screw. All of my plates have stop screws on the ends.

I assume that you simply remove (perhaps with heat) original platform and screw in clamp with some strong locktite (the sort that you have to heat to remove).
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 29, 2012, 01:41:09 pm
Thanks! The native Arca-Swiss clamp has  two-level clamp jaws that accommodate the old (widely used) AS plates and the new narrow AS-brand-only "monofix" plates. The clamp has detent pins that work for the narrow monofix plates but not for the widely used AS-style plates. I expect that I will be replacing the plain platform with a Wimberley, Kirk, or similar screw clamp with the stop grooves on either side of the stem screw. All of my plates have stop screws on the ends.

I assume that you simply remove (perhaps with heat) original platform and screw in clamp with some strong locktite (the sort that you have to heat to remove).
On my Arca-Swiss B1 Monoball head a simple 11mm Craftsman socket wrench head and wrench  was all that was necessary to remove the existing clamp and replace it with either  a  Really Right Stuff PCL-1 Panning clamp or B2-Pro II clamp. I did not use any Loctite and have had no problems with the clamp loosening. this is with the latest model of Craftsman socket which has thin enough walls to fit into the shallow and not very wide recess around the bolt head.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: NancyP on May 29, 2012, 05:31:26 pm
Thanks!

I really do like safety stops on QR clamp systems.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Ellis Vener on May 29, 2012, 05:46:25 pm
Thanks!

I really do like safety stops on QR clamp systems.

You are most welcome!

I'm not a fan of safety stops on plates or clamps as I find they get in my way.the exception being in the new Arca-Swiss SlideFix system. For some reason they work for me. I like the SlideFix QR system but am already heavily invested in the "classic" Arca-Swiss QR ecology to switch over.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Rand47 on June 04, 2012, 05:24:58 pm
We had the BH-55. In the field (Nepal) while a 500mm F4 lens was mounted on it, the knob for lock-down came undone - it simply became loose and then fell out of the socket!...Fortunately one of us caught the lens before it hit the ground.

When we returned to NYC we contacted RRS - they told us that was a known problem to them. The glue that holds the knob in place can disintegrate...or was not applied correctly in some cases.

Given their political stance on certain issues in California and the problem we had with their equipment, we do our best to purchase from other manufacturers now.

Deborah Allen and Robert DeCandido PhD
NYC

Do a google search for: Really Right Stuff Prop 8 California (the anti-gay marriage bill)

http://www.flickr.com/groups/865962@N20/discuss/72157612473243424/







I don't know what your motive is for dragging politics into a discussion of photo gear.  Not a good one, I suspect. 

At any rate, I'm a user of the BH-55 and have found it excellent, rugged, and have had zero problems with it or any of the other excellent equipment I've purchased from RRS.  I've pretty much owned one of every kind of head, except for the ARCA Cube.  The BH-55 is far and away the best ball head I've ever used.

I am not affiliated with RRS (in case I'm suspect).  I've researched this issue of knobs falling off and cannot find one other instance of this kind of report on any of the many sites I visit.
I doubt it is a problem that you'll encounter if you purchase one of their heads.  And certainly if it "was" a known problem, I suspect it has been corrected.  There is usually a waiting list for RRS equipment since it is all made at one location and only available through the manufacturer.


Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Robert DeCandido PhD on June 04, 2012, 07:02:58 pm
Hello:

I called them - since I had never had a problem like this with a ball head before - or since...and that is what the fellow on the other end of the line told me. It was a known problem to them. Apparently others have had this happen....So I am relaying their words/response and not "putting words in their mouth." I was surprised too because it sure was shocking that the lock down knob would fall out of a ball head - especially one that looked more or less brand new.

So I stand by what I wrote 100%.

I refuse to buy any more RRS products because of this catastrophic failure - and their stand on prop 8 in California. You make your choice; RRS is free to do what they want - and I am free to vote with my feet. I will not spend any money on a company that gets involved in politics that do not support equal rights or opportunities for people who don't happen to be heterosexual.

Are you familiar with Prop 8 in California?

Robert DeCandido PhD
NYC
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: JohnBrew on June 04, 2012, 08:23:53 pm
Robert, I have to say that although there are some attractive items in the RRS catalogue, I am inclined to avoid RRS stuff due to the owners' Prop 8 support. There are several other good US-based manufacturers of plates, clamps, rails, brackets, and so on. An RRS item has to be absolutely unique to earn my business.
You go, Nancy. I'm behind that attitude 100%. I sent back my L-bracket for an upcoming D800 and will look elsewhere.
Title: Re: Your ball head hasn't reached St. Louis
Post by: Ellis Vener on June 04, 2012, 08:50:48 pm
Nor has it been found in the guts of our larger catfish/carp locally. I bet some enterprising mussel now blesses you for providing a fancy "home".

You live in Davenport IA? it would have to be a really, really big catfish or carp to swallow that thing. It was really big.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Rand47 on June 05, 2012, 07:19:24 pm
Hello:

I called them - since I had never had a problem like this with a ball head before - or since...and that is what the fellow on the other end of the line told me. It was a known problem to them. Apparently others have had this happen....So I am relaying their words/response and not "putting words in their mouth." I was surprised too because it sure was shocking that the lock down knob would fall out of a ball head - especially one that looked more or less brand new.

So I stand by what I wrote 100%.

I refuse to buy any more RRS products because of this catastrophic failure - and their stand on prop 8 in California. You make your choice; RRS is free to do what they want - and I am free to vote with my feet. I will not spend any money on a company that gets involved in politics that do not support equal rights or opportunities for people who don't happen to be heterosexual.

Are you familiar with Prop 8 in California?

Robert DeCandido PhD
NYC

Yes, I live in California and am familiar with what the majority voted to pass in CA's referendum process.
But my point is that I don't think a discussion of politics is appropriate in a gear forum.

There is a quite nice "Coffee Corner" page on this web site for you to proselytize any political positions.
Title: Re: Really Right Stuff BH-55 CATASTROPHIC failure - and ethical responsibilities
Post by: Robert DeCandido PhD on June 05, 2012, 09:59:28 pm
Hello:

Really Right Stuff equipment had a CATASTROPHIC failure while I was using it - and this problem is known to them with that item - the BH-55 Ball Head. Yes I should dwell on that. However, I sure wish they would have included in their catalog a statement to the effect of, "We use some of the profit made in our operations to fund anti-gay legislation."

Now if I would have known about that and/or their stance on Prop 8 in that wonderful state of California - I never would have purchased their equipment in the first place...problem solved for me.

But a larger question looms - and since you raised it, let me explore it: through history lots of groups have been outvoted by a majority: women once could not vote; people who were not white once did not count as human - that is in this country (it has been worse and remains worse, in other places). So yes, california voted in the majority against Prop 8 and the right for all people, no matter their sexual orientation to wed - in the legal sense. However, the tidal wave of time will change things - California will go the way of the great state of New York (my home state) - where gay marriage is now legal. It has been an economic boom for my state - so many people coming here to get married - they spend their money...they are happy, businesses are happy...and people have equal opportunity under the law for justice they would not have if they could not get married in the eyes of the law. California will see the light - wouldn't that be nice?

Why would the nice people at Really Right Stuff be against that? I would think that being inclusive would net them more money. I bet if more people knew about their stance on prop 8, they would lose money...why lose money? I bet a significant number of the people who purchase their equipment are not heterosexual. In fact, I bet they have people who are gay that they are related to..I know I do. And you know what Mr. Rand?  I bet there are folks related to you that are gay. Don't you believe that those folks deserve the same rights as you or me?

However, as I state above and say again, if RRS would just include a note in their catalog about their political stance on Prop 8 - I could have avoided the problem in the first place...but I suppose this all happened for a reason. There are indeed larger issues than photography (occasionally).

Finally, I respect your right to say what you want and where you wish to say it. Would you be so kind to respect my right to do the same?

Robert DeCandido
NYC
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Tony Jay on June 05, 2012, 10:19:51 pm
Rob, there is space for you to discuss political issues of this nature on this forum - it is called "The Coffee Corner".
May I suggest that you initiate a thread there.

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Robert DeCandido PhD on June 05, 2012, 10:25:51 pm
Sure you may suggest it BUT the issue of the RRS ball Head was raised here in this forum - and in passing in my response I mentioned I would never buy RRS equipment again for two reasons: (a) the catastrophic failure of their ball head - due to a problem known to them which they have never mentioned or publicly acknowledged...and (b) their (RRS) political stance on Prop 8. I mentioned the latter in passing - it has been others who keep bringing it up. That is fine with me.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: Tony Jay on June 05, 2012, 10:33:11 pm
I am not trying to shoot you down.

Nonetheless, if you feel strongly about the political approach that RRS has taken, then raise it as a post in "The Coffee Corner".
No issue with the the failure of the head been discussed in the current forum.

Regards

Tony Jay
Title: Re: Really Right Stuff BH-55 CATASTROPHIC failure - and ethical responsibilities
Post by: Rand47 on June 06, 2012, 01:49:25 am
Hello:

Really Right Stuff equipment had a CATASTROPHIC failure while I was using it - and this problem is known to them with that item - the BH-55 Ball Head. Yes I should dwell on that. However, I sure wish they would have included in their catalog a statement to the effect of, "We use some of the profit made in our operations to fund anti-gay legislation."

Now if I would have known about that and/or their stance on Prop 8 in that wonderful state of California - I never would have purchased their equipment in the first place...problem solved for me.

But a larger question looms - and since you raised it, let me explore it: through history lots of groups have been outvoted by a majority: women once could not vote; people who were not white once did not count as human - that is in this country (it has been worse and remains worse, in other places). So yes, california voted in the majority against Prop 8 and the right for all people, no matter their sexual orientation to wed - in the legal sense. However, the tidal wave of time will change things - California will go the way of the great state of New York (my home state) - where gay marriage is now legal. It has been an economic boom for my state - so many people coming here to get married - they spend their money...they are happy, businesses are happy...and people have equal opportunity under the law for justice they would not have if they could not get married in the eyes of the law. California will see the light - wouldn't that be nice?

Why would the nice people at Really Right Stuff be against that? I would think that being inclusive would net them more money. I bet if more people knew about their stance on prop 8, they would lose money...why lose money? I bet a significant number of the people who purchase their equipment are not heterosexual. In fact, I bet they have people who are gay that they are related to..I know I do. And you know what Mr. Rand?  I bet there are folks related to you that are gay. Don't you believe that those folks deserve the same rights as you or me?

However, as I state above and say again, if RRS would just include a note in their catalog about their political stance on Prop 8 - I could have avoided the problem in the first place...but I suppose this all happened for a reason. There are indeed larger issues than photography (occasionally).

Finally, I respect your right to say what you want and where you wish to say it. Would you be so kind to respect my right to do the same?

Robert DeCandido
NYC

Rant noted, I still suggest that you rant in the Coffee Corner.  Wisdom is known by her children.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: NancyP on June 12, 2012, 04:03:25 am
Two coffee chat items
Ellis Vener:
Nope, I live in St. Louis. The invasive Asian carp are large and obnoxious - many area Mississippi River boaters have been swamped by a 40 pounder leaping out of the water at speed and smacking into the boat, sometimes injuring the boater. I don't know how far north the non-native Asian carp has made it. I do know that the Illinois River has some carp working their way up toward the Great Lakes system, an ecological ticking bomb. IL Natural Resources and US Army Corps of Engineers (controlling rivers) are trying very hard to limit the carp. The species could destroy the commercial fishing in the Great Lakes. If any Mississippi River fish could do away with a 2 to 3 kilo ball head, this one could. :(

Rand47:
The thread has listed a variety of plusses and minuses of several ball heads. Most comments on the thread have centered on design, user experiences, etc. There is no such thing as the one and only "perfect" ball head - many brands and models will perform very well for the specific needs of the owners. Occasionally, non-technical considerations will be used in purchasing decisions - service quality, country of manufacture, and yes, even political stances. As I have mentioned above, I have a friend who was one of the earliest to marry, and she suffered considerable anxiety over the possibility of her marriage being revoked, for practical reasons and because it would be a very public slap in the face. It isn't nice to wonder which of your neighbors and colleagues consider you to be worthy of public scorn for expression of fidelity considered praiseworthy for other people. Most of the time I don't pay much attention to the politics of manufacturers (if I did, I might be in the "no consumption" movement). However, a sense of personal loyalty makes me avoid RRS if a comparable quality product is available elsewhere. I am glad that the company exists and employs US skilled trades workers. In the short run, I prefer spending my money elsewhere.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: rardinger on June 16, 2012, 11:11:21 pm
Agree fully.  I was considering a Gitzo 3452/Arca Swiss vs. a RRS 33 tripod and 55 head but knowing the RRS politics I will not be considering the RRS product. This thread has been helpful in guiding my purchase decision.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: bdosserman on June 19, 2012, 06:14:27 pm
Agree fully.  I was considering a Gitzo 3452/Arca Swiss vs. a RRS 33 tripod and 55 head but knowing the RRS politics I will not be considering the RRS product. This thread has been helpful in guiding my purchase decision.

I likewise agree. Robert brought up -- very briefly -- a topic which happened to be relevant to him in choosing not to buy RRS products, in the expectation that it might be relevant to others as well. This expectation has now been borne out. The pseudo-political discussion has been dragged out in this forum only because others chose to make an issue of it. My own thought is that any reason which someone takes into account for buying or not buying something is reasonable to mention in this context. If anything is suitable for the Coffee Corner, it is the philosophical argument over whether or not one should let a company owner's politics influence one's support of that company.

Brian
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: NancyP on June 20, 2012, 12:15:29 pm
Just got my Arca Swiss Z1sp with flip-lock clamp. It's a beauty. I can't wait to get it and my new set of Feisol 37mm diameter carbon fiber legs (3472) into the field this weekend.

I am not at all offended by other photographers' use of RRS products. The company is a good one, and employs Americans, a Big Plus. My choice was dictated by personal loyalty, and does not preclude my respect for RRS users who may not know a specific person affected by the anti-gay-marriage Proposition 8 campaign.
Title: Re: Arca Swiss Z1 or Markins Q20
Post by: rardinger on June 21, 2012, 05:01:03 pm
As a followup, I did buy the 3542 tripod but , again thanks to information in this thread and elsewhere, I bough the Markins Q20 head (yet to arrive).  Robert