Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Pro Business Discussion => Topic started by: biggiesnows on April 15, 2012, 09:38:29 pm

Title: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: biggiesnows on April 15, 2012, 09:38:29 pm
Hi All,

Many pro photogs are working the Facebook angle in the hopes of generating business but does it work? Can anyone reading this post verify that it makes a difference to their bottom line? It would be nice to get some input before venturing down that road. I don't want to get sucked into a black hole of work if it's not going to pay off.

Thanks for any help.

Bill Stevenson
www.beautifuloutdoorphotos.com
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: EduPerez on April 18, 2012, 02:15:00 am
"If you're not paying for it; you're the product"... just saying.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Rob C on April 18, 2012, 06:35:19 am
"If you're not paying for it; you're the product"... just saying.



Joder! never thought of life like that; now I shall worry about everything. And to think I imagined that I already doubted too much...

; -)

Rob C
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Isaac on April 18, 2012, 01:11:23 pm
Even when you are paying something, even when you are the customer; your time and attention still might be the product being sold - TV commercials, magazine ads, calendars...
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: EduPerez on April 18, 2012, 01:53:17 pm
Even when you are paying something, even when you are the customer; your time and attention still might be the product being sold - TV commercials, magazine ads, ...

There is a difference between "customers" (those who pay for the service) and "users" (those who benefit from the service); and when those are separate groups, "the customer is always right" acquires a weird meaning. When I realized this (obvious) fact, it was like a revelation to me, and I began to understand lots of things: like why TV sucks, or why low-cost airlines treat their travelers like shit, or why computers come loaded with crapware, ...
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Isaac on April 18, 2012, 02:44:20 pm
There is a difference between "customers" (those who pay for the service) and "users" (those who benefit from the service)...
As-far-as customer A is concerned, they are paying for service A.
As-far-as customer B is concerned, they are paying for service B.
In the middle, we provide service A to customer A, and we provide service B to customer B.

It's just that customer A prefers to forget that they are the service we provide to customer B, and customer A prefers to forget that customer B pays us a lot of money.

 "Companies paid an average of $3.5 million for a 30-second spot..." (http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2011/story/_/id/7544243/super-bowl-2012-commercials-cost-average-35m)
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: ckimmerle on April 18, 2012, 09:00:14 pm
Many pro photogs are working the Facebook angle in the hopes of generating business but does it work?

I think you're mistaken as to why photographers/artists use Facebook. Nobody is under the delusion that a Facebook account is going to generate much income, if any. Facebook's primary purpose is awareness. It helps us keep our names out there and increase our name recognition. It's marketing at the lowest level, sure, but since it's so quick and easy to update AND FREE, there is no "black hole of work" as you say.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: SecondFocus on April 18, 2012, 11:42:03 pm
Long story short.... Yes Facebook has substantially increased my revenue. I am routinely found, hired, commissioned and images licensed as a result of my Facebook presence.

Actually I was recently featured in an article about Social Networking in the April 2012 issue of Shutterbug Magazine, and also a report on Social Networking on PhotoShelter. Additionally I was part of the topic of discussion at the Palm Springs Photo Festival just a few weeks ago at a symposium "Monetizing The Internet".

So yes, not conjecture, it can work.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: john beardsworth on April 19, 2012, 03:47:59 am
Ian, looking at your work there's a lot of bodybuilding stuff there. Is it a case of your using Facebook to tap into a specific community, and how deliberate a strategy was it?
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: SecondFocus on April 19, 2012, 11:47:46 am
Ian, looking at your work there's a lot of bodybuilding stuff there. Is it a case of your using Facebook to tap into a specific community, and how deliberate a strategy was it?

Yes I do have a speciality in the bodybuilding and fitness industry. Prior to Facebook I was already very well known but Facebook allowed me to expand that and be more accessible as well as to "push" work out here all the time. I deliberately built my friends on FB directed to my specialty from competitors, to companies that market to the industry, to magazine publishers and editors. So now when I post a new photo and it's related story it goes out to my 4700+ friends and is geometrically seen across more of the audience. I am not entirely clear how that works but my experience is that my audience is much bigger than just the 4700+.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: louoates on April 19, 2012, 02:40:31 pm
Second shows that internet marketing can work if you learn how to do it, keep doing it, and learn from your successes and failures. Amazing how those individual strivings for success haven't changed in hundreds of years.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: ckimmerle on April 20, 2012, 11:18:42 am
I'm not sure that Ian's situation is relevant to most other photographers. He is specialized in an area with a well-defined and and, I am sure, fairly tight-knit community. That gives him the opportunity for targeted marketing pushes towards a willing and eager audience. Most of us don't work in such an environment (or have his talents).

Still, I guess it is proof that it CAN work given the right circumstances.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: SecondFocus on April 20, 2012, 12:51:09 pm
Chuck Thanks for the kind words!

I agree that I do not know if my circumstances would translate to "most other photographers". Sometime back I held on to the idea that specialization was key to success, at least for me. With that said it has also been a detriment to some extent, but that is another topic.

But I do think there is a way to make Facebook or other social media work for many photographers. The audience is there and willing. If I were in a different genre I would research how I would find, search and build my audience to fit. Perhaps it might mean zeroing in on a specific facet of what you do. It could be a specialty of photographing waterfalls, Fiat's or fruit. I do believe there would be a way of making social media work for many.

I'm not sure that Ian's situation is relevant to most other photographers. He is specialized in an area with a well-defined and and, I am sure, fairly tight-knit community. That gives him the opportunity for targeted marketing pushes towards a willing and eager audience. Most of us don't work in such an environment (or have his talents).

Still, I guess it is proof that it CAN work given the right circumstances.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: biggiesnows on April 21, 2012, 10:26:19 am
Hi Ian,

Can you post a link to the Shutterbug and Photoshelter articles? Do you think they are level-headed pieces or a little hyped?

Thanks very much,

biggiesnows
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: SecondFocus on April 21, 2012, 10:54:18 am
Hi Ian,

Can you post a link to the Shutterbug and Photoshelter articles? Do you think they are level-headed pieces or a little hyped?

Thanks very much,

biggiesnows

Go to http://Photoshelter.com and look under "Free Guides". I have not seen the Shutterbug Magazine feature online, yet anyway.

Also on the website for the Palm Springs Photo Festival there will be Symposiums 2012 under archives. Look for "Monetizing The Internet" when they are available.

There is good information from a few people, I don't know if I read them with thinking if they were a "little hyped" but I know what you mean. Of course any place where they speak very highly of me it is right on... LOL.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: SecondFocus on April 23, 2012, 10:04:17 pm
Just saw these stats from a Feb 1st Facebook SEC filing. Thought I would pass it on...

Monthly active users now total 901 million (up from 680 million a year ago).
Daily active users are up to 526 million (up from 372 million last year).
Monthly mobile users now total 488 million.
300 million photos are uploaded to the site each day.
3.2 billion Likes and Comments are posted daily.
125 billion friendships are forged per day.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on April 23, 2012, 11:13:18 pm
There has never been a better example of quantity not translating into quality.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Justinr on May 01, 2012, 05:15:44 am
As SB so correctly points out just because there are big numbers viewing it does not mean to say that there are big numbers actually using it to find services and goods. However, this is the same of much of the web, you will find plenty of stats pointing out just how many people are connected but as yet I have to come across any figures clearly illustrating how a web presence has increased sales for a broad sample of companies on a cost effective basis, unless the business concerned is web focussed and it is considered their shop front rather than just thought of as a bolt on lead generator.

This is the crux of the matter. If you are going to set up your stall on FB then you must attend to it 24/7 to obtain any results. FB is the ultimate time wasting gimmick purporting to be a sales aid, there is a tremendous peer pressure to be there but as yet I have to hear of anyone around these parts thinking it worthwhile in the final analysis. A FB presence in conjunction with a determined web based marketing strategy can work but it's not an easy or particularly cheap path to riches, it is also very dependent on the type of business you are in.

FB can also act against your interests, I have been involved with a couple of organisations where the lack of being able to control what is being said has adversely affected their image in one case and income in another. Be very careful with it and on a whole I would suggest that like any business it will only work for photographers if you work hard at it. Over here I don't believe it's worth the effort.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: SecondFocus on May 01, 2012, 11:39:52 pm
So I must ask... of everyone who has replied, other than myself, has anyone themselves actually made an effort to use Facebook for some level of marketing?
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Justinr on May 02, 2012, 03:30:24 am
So I must ask... of everyone who has replied, other than myself, has anyone themselves actually made an effort to use Facebook for some level of marketing?

Yes I did and much of my posting was based on that experience and the experience of others that I know have also tried in other business areas. My overall conclusions are -

1. Its a lot of work for little reward, constant attention and updating is required.
2. You have to be a Facebook sort of person to have any enthusiasm for getting involved.
3. It probably works better in some countries than others.
4. Petty gossip does not automatically translate into lead generation.
5. You are not always in control of how your business is presented.
6. It maybe free but you pay for what you get.
7. The web is the worst place for displaying your work as you have no idea how it is being viewed.
8. As No 7 but FB allows even less control over viewing conditions. Any background so long as its white!
9. FB are using you as much as you are using them.
10. Having FB as your only or main web presence can deter the more discerning customer.

I have come across one or two people who claim to have successfully marketed on FB but have yet to see any figures from anyone demonstrating that it is actually the marvel that many people believe. That's not to say it's not without it's uses but it's not a panacea, you really have to be focussed on using it to gain any advantage.

Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Sareesh Sudhakaran on May 02, 2012, 03:40:38 am
So I must ask... of everyone who has replied, other than myself, has anyone themselves actually made an effort to use Facebook for some level of marketing?

I had, and failed - and my product was a low-budget indie film.

My market was almost non-existent (unfortunately it still is), and my FB page was part of my online strategy - website+FB+Amazon+Indieflix. I did have some local PR but my plan was to not pay for anything.

I must also mention that I'm sort of a marketing expert, having been a media manager for a real estate firm and five star hotel. So I fancy I know a thing or two about marketing.

In my analysis of FB in 2009-10 I came to the conclusion that FB ads weren't for me, the ROI just wasn't there. I came to the same conclusion about Google ads.

Here's my thought process in general terms:
1. Define your market - identify those metrics that you will use to make the distinction. E.g., age, income, gender and so on, as specific as you can make it.
2. Find the size of your market - how many individuals matching your criteria exist on this planet ready to buy/hire you?
3. Identify your budget - how much can you spend now and how much are you comfortable spending on a monthly basis?
4. Identify your goals - What is your income projection? Note: I don't care about exposure if it doesn't result in sales or work. Having a million followers is an ego boost but if doesn't translate into business what's the point?
5. From 3 and 4 you will know how many from 2 you can realistically reach - this is your target market
6. The big question: Which tool(s) can help you get your target market with minimum expenditure in time and/or money?

Analysing FB as a tool:
1. How many of your target market is using FB - this figure is estimable, and is critical. You might discover you have millions, or only thousands - let's call them your FB market
2. How is your FB market using FB? You must realize most people use FB for personal reasons only, and it is important to identify how many of your potential FB market actually hunts for whatever it is you're selling?
3. This will bring you to a fork on the road: Advertising vs Fan Page - if your FB market are hunters, you can skew your FB strategy towards your fan page - if they are passive users you'll need FB advertising.
4. Using FB ads, try to calculate your outlay via FB for ads - how much do you have to spend to reach your target audience. How many clicks will you get?
5. From the number of clicks how many can you convert into sales? Do you expect this process to happen passively (people buying via Amazon for example) or do you have to follow up and convert (insurance salesmen, e.g.)? Do you have the time and money and/or expertise to make any of this happen on a continuous basis?
6. If you go the ad route, you will have to ask yourself - Can you better reach your online potential target market with google (or other) ads? After all, google can go where FB cannot, as far as advertising is concerned. Can FB ads offer you something that google cannot?
7. If you go the fan page route, can you generate interesting content regularly - can you maintain the chatter? What do you want your average fan to do once they click the 'Like' button? Do you want them to engage you, converse with other members, buy, subscribe, etc. It is important to trace this route very clearly since this will decide the design of your marketing material.

For my movie, I decided right off the bat that since my market didn't exist (99% of my sales comes from US/Europe, and my movie isn't even in English!) it would be a fruitless exercise to either use FB ads or generate a continuous online page - that's the reality of my market. 99.9% movies have a shelf life of a few weeks at best. I didn't want to spend the time or money since my ROI didn't work out.

This is my general impression about FB as well. From among all the other potential tools I can use in my marketing arsenal, I've come to realize FB generally isn't very productive for my purposes. This is also the general case in my industry - whether multi-million dollar budgets or zero budget productions.

So, can you get the same sales with one well-placed ad in a local magazine as you would with months of FB activity? Can you provide better service to your customers via FB or your personal website/telephone/email? Does a FB page do justice to your brand image? Is the design of a typical FB page layout / constraints of a FB ad enough to communicate your marketing message without compromise?

This can go on and on...so I hope this helps in some way.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Justinr on May 02, 2012, 04:16:45 am
@ Sareesh

Yep, That's pretty much what I was trying to say but you did it so much better and more thoroughly.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: figure1a on May 10, 2012, 10:01:12 pm
Facebook does help. But only a little. If find that 99% of my "Likes" are other photographers and only 1% are art buyers, art directors, etc. I usually post behind the scenes images and some new work now and then—it's a good way to show people how you work and to keep your fresh work in front of them in their Facebook news feed.

http://on.fb.me/JhKsCy
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on May 15, 2012, 08:08:41 pm
This might be of interest:

General Motors to drop Facebook ads due to low consumer impact (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/15/gm-facebook-idUSL1E8GFMKN20120515)

From the article:

"While GM gave no specific reason for dropping Facebook ads, a source familiar with the automaker's plans said the company's marketing executives decided Facebook's ads had little impact on consumers."
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: fredjeang on May 16, 2012, 12:58:16 pm
Walls...

here is a pic of the Who when it comes to walls.
(http://globull.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/the-who-whos-next-aotd.jpg)

Who's next?
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Rob C on May 16, 2012, 01:39:35 pm
Is anything real anymore?

Glad to see you are still in good spirits, Fred; the good weather here has suddenly turned cold again. But I did manage to get my washing done, so clean T-shirts etc. when I need them... Life is one big party. Somewhere else. At the very least, I hope so!

;-(

Rob C
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: fredjeang on May 16, 2012, 01:58:21 pm
Is anything real anymore?

Glad to see you are still in good spirits, Fred; the good weather here has suddenly turned cold again. But I did manage to get my washing done, so clean T-shirts etc. when I need them... Life is one big party. Somewhere else. At the very least, I hope so!

;-(

Rob C

Glad to read you too Rob. Well, I'm quite enjoying the cold actually. Man, we where freezing and almost the next day we reached 40º c in Madrid. Not fun ! Never seen that before. Too hot too fast. You have the sea just next to your home and not yet the tourist invasion. Here we have the cars, the risk prime broke the 500 points today, Bankia (my bank) in banquerupcy, Greece in flames...you got the beach, lucky man!
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Rob C on May 17, 2012, 09:11:45 am
Glad to read you too Rob. Well, I'm quite enjoying the cold actually. Man, we where freezing and almost the next day we reached 40º c in Madrid. Not fun ! Never seen that before. Too hot too fast. You have the sea just next to your home and not yet the tourist invasion. Here we have the cars, the risk prime broke the 500 points today, Bankia (my bank) in banquerupcy, Greece in flames...you got the beach, lucky man!


Trouble with that, Fred, is that it makes the temptation to go for a one-way walk outwards very easy...

The banks in Spain do worry me a bit - not a lot, because we always kept a minimum float here - but we also experienced the real fear of late 2008 when at least two big British banks were seriously touch-and-go. Today I still pay the penalty for other people's mistakes: no interest from the bank and my 'stock pension' also worthless since the advent of those bloody microstock companies. Please, don't anybody  bother replying with crap about those mothers democratising photography: if you were good, there was never a barrier to anybody, pro or am, getting into a great international stock library... other factors scewed it for everybody who depended upon the industry to make the difference between make or break...

Oh, and from reading recent posts here I get the impression one should feel sorry for flikr, or whatever the hell it calls itself. Yeah, right!

Rob C
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Justinr on May 17, 2012, 04:50:59 pm
This might be of interest:

General Motors to drop Facebook ads due to low consumer impact (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/15/gm-facebook-idUSL1E8GFMKN20120515)

From the article:

"While GM gave no specific reason for dropping Facebook ads, a source familiar with the automaker's plans said the company's marketing executives decided Facebook's ads had little impact on consumers."

It never ceases to amaze me that these big corporations with marketing teams who are supposedly worthy of both acclaim and vast pay cheques ever got involved in the first place. It is the triumph of hubris over expectation, did they never do their homework before getting all wet in the knickers about it?
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: MikeWhitten on May 18, 2012, 11:29:20 am
To the OP's question -

I have watched a family member build a wedding / portrait business up from scratch to the point of replacing her day job using nothing but Facebook for marketing. It took her something like two years. Easy? No. She has an incredible work ethic, a great personality for Facebook, puts in the time and energy it takes. She works hard for her clients and her market (younger crowd; she's in her twenties) is heavily involved with Facebook.

It can work. But it's just a tool. I believe this young lady would have succeeded in the days of yellow pages and Sunday circulars; it's her persistence and energy that make the difference. Facebook just lowered the cash outlay cost of getting going.

Mike
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Justinr on May 19, 2012, 03:28:37 am
To the OP's question -

I have watched a family member build a wedding / portrait business up from scratch to the point of replacing her day job using nothing but Facebook for marketing. It took her something like two years. Easy? No. She has an incredible work ethic, a great personality for Facebook, puts in the time and energy it takes. She works hard for her clients and her market (younger crowd; she's in her twenties) is heavily involved with Facebook.

It can work. But it's just a tool. I believe this young lady would have succeeded in the days of yellow pages and Sunday circulars; it's her persistence and energy that make the difference. Facebook just lowered the cash outlay cost of getting going.

Mike

Which goes back to what I was saying about needing to be a Facebook sort of person. You don't mention where she is based but I guess it is America where FB tends to be taken more seriously from what I have gather from various other sources and friends.

To be honest I'd feel a bit of a pervy going on and chatting up the girls in the hope of a some business, and they'd probably think the same.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Rob C on May 19, 2012, 04:54:12 am
Which goes back to what I was saying about needing to be a Facebook sort of person. You don't mention where she is based but I guess it is America where FB tends to be taken more seriously from what I have gather from various other sources and friends.

To be honest I'd feel a bit of a pervy going on and chatting up the girls in the hope of a some business, and they'd probably think the same.



Justin, I think you've just said far more than you imagined.

I have felt the very same about almost all of the various personal connections that I have made in my life, to the extent that I have not allowed personal friendships to become business. Yep, that's a form of slow suicide, but there you go - it would feel like I was taking advantage of people and nothing was about friendship any longer. On the other side of the equation, I have relatives who are of the opposite persuasion and have flourished from personal contacts...

Of course, I'm speaking here of friends that started as friends without business interest being any part of it. Connections made directly through business are something totally different.

Rob C
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Isaac on May 24, 2012, 01:46:19 pm
Also -- Google+ for Photographers (http://books.google.com/books?id=Wafm_hbR5t4C&lpg=PP1&pg=PP8#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: SecondFocus on June 14, 2012, 03:30:17 pm
SYMPOSIUM: Entrepreneurial Photographers & Monetizing the Internet... A program from the Palm Springs Photo Festival this past April 2012. This Symposium started out after 8 minutes of introductions and such with Allen Murabayashi, CEO and Co-Founder of PhotoShelter opening the program with a discussion about me and Facebook....

http://secondfocus.blogspot.com/2012/06/palm-springs-photo-festival-symposium.html?spref=fb
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: K.C. on June 14, 2012, 10:43:15 pm
SYMPOSIUM: Entrepreneurial Photographers & Monetizing the Internet... A program from the Palm Springs Photo Festival this past April 2012. This Symposium started out after 8 minutes of introductions and such with Allen Murabayashi, CEO and Co-Founder of PhotoShelter opening the program with a discussion about me and Facebook....

http://secondfocus.blogspot.com/2012/06/palm-springs-photo-festival-symposium.html?spref=fb


... I deliberately built my friends on FB directed to my specialty from competitors, to companies that market to the industry, to magazine publishers and editors.

Hustling always works. You would have found another platform if FB didn't exist. Now you're using this forum.

FB doesn't have a good return for those that have the means to work another method more effectively, hence GM and others have abandoned it.

If you are going to set up your stall on FB then you must attend to it 24/7 to obtain any results. FB is the ultimate time wasting gimmick purporting to be a sales aid, there is a tremendous peer pressure to be there but as yet I have to hear of anyone around these parts thinking it worthwhile in the final analysis.

Well said and validated by several market studies.

Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: SecondFocus on June 14, 2012, 11:19:38 pm
That is one thing I am certainly not doing. I have nothing to market here and no aspirations to do so.

Now you're using this forum

Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: kaelaria on June 15, 2012, 03:12:27 pm
FB is rapidly changing things, just about every week now especially for businesses.

The big thing is now businesses (fan pages) need to pay to post if they want updates even seen by followers.  Short version, about 15% of your fans will now see an update post.  If you want to boost that, you can pay up to $20 per post (depending on how many followers you have) to 'promote it'.  Yes, each post.  For three days that post will then show to a greater percentage.  Still not all, just more, and they don't guarantee an exact percentage.

Personally I'm letting my fan page go away on it's own and doing everything through my personal account.  I will now just be creating galleries on my account page and just posting new blog posts through the fan page. 

I experimented with the pay to post feature and found it cost just under $1 per click in the end.  Way over priced, especially considering it's just hitting your existing fans.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: TMARK on June 21, 2012, 01:14:31 pm
It depends on your market.  I think it works locally, for retail businesses, as one channel of getting your message out there.  For agencies, its a different story. Facebook is incidental for agencies hiring photographers.  Now that I'm at an Omnicron agency, and have input on hiring photographers, Facebook can't hurt, and its a good way to build awareness.  But you have to know your market, understand who and what your market is, to get any use out of it.  We aren't going to call in a "book" from a Facebook posting.  But seeing recent work that may be right for a job has happened, then its off to the photographer's site, then we poll people to see if s/he is an incompetent asshole, do a search for their online asshole factor.  If their are no significant negatives, and we like the work, we have a conference call.  Then bids, etc. The Facebook element is minimal, at best.

I'm in strategy now, and I'll tell you, I've seen the numbers.  Media planners are realizing that people in the US using Facebook are not in an aquisitive mode of behavior when they log on.  Facebook's "succes" is based upon the human desire to talk and gosip, with all that entails.  Psychologicaly people in the US using Facebook alone in an airport are "chatting with friends" as if in a coffee shop.  I hate to bring up symiotics, but the deconstruction of the Facebook experience, and why I don't have much faith in its viability as a media channel for above the line advertising, can be simply put:  what makes Facebook great is also its failure as an advertising channel:  When was the last time you wanted to research and buy something while you hung out with a group of friends, sharing a (virtual) intimate moment?  Facebook's value to a brand is awareness (some), but is more in the realm of local retail advertising.  For instance, a local vintage motorcycle store posts when they are having group rides, events, sales, and pics from events.  This is effective in a local retail market, for a small shop with NO BUDGET.  The reason it works is that the market is a small group of like minded motorcyclists (cohesive), a group of which the shop owners are members, and people have to overcome inertia to Friend their page, so they are already hooked.  They also use a soft sell, which always helps.  In my case, when I needed new tires, I spent more with them than ordering from the web, because I LIKE them a speople, and they really are genuinly part of the community.

So the lesson for photographers?  Know your market.  Be honest.  Don't try to come across as marketing yourself.  If your market consists of agency art buyers, CD's and AD's, just post new work, but more importantly, maybe try to get rid of that LL post where you came across as such a dick arguing about medium format digital versus 35mm digital.  No one wants to work with a dick.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: DennisWilliams on June 22, 2012, 09:42:04 pm
FB offers no bounce for me but there are two likely causes which may not translate to other's business models.

I am hired  to shoot so there are no print sales or shoots with  ''people" who might cross my path through  FB.
Jobs are by invitation or viable referral only.

I actually am friends with 90% of the people I am friends with on FB. The other 10% I am acquainted with.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: sailronin on July 16, 2012, 09:26:10 pm
My son and daughter in law have a wedding photography business. Facebook is an integral part of their marketing with ads targeting a specific demographic (women, 18-30 yrs old and local zip codes). This increased their business significantly in the first year and the numbers are remaining steady so that they are booked to capacity during the wedding season.
They spend a lot of time not only on the pop up ads but keeping their page up to date and responding to posts. They also link to related but non competitive businesses which return the service. For a specific business model and age group, FB seems worth the effort.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: bretedge on August 05, 2012, 12:52:12 pm
I use Facebook extensively and in my experience, it is well worth the time investment with one caveat: don't count on it generating instant revenue.  It took a good, solid year before I started seeing any kind of financial return.  It did help to increase website and blog traffic earlier than that but only at marginal levels.

I've made several print sales to folks who "like" my Facebook page.  Where it is most lucrative for me is in marketing my workshop and guiding services.  In the 2+ years I've had a FB business page I've secured at least a dozen guided/workshop clients as a direct result of my participation on my FB page. 

I've noticed a "snowball" phenomenon with FB.  The more "likes" you have, the more of them you'll get.  The more "likes" you've got, the greater your exposure.  It takes time and effort to build a following.

Here are a couple tips that have helped me to build a loyal and engaged following: Use your FB page to engage your followers.  Ask questions, interact with them, have fun and for God's sake, don't try to sell to them all the time.  Every once in a while is fine and to be expected, but if you're constantly trying to sell to them they'll split.  Stay active, but not too active.  Post new images, new blog posts, etc.  A few posts a week seems to be plenty.  A few posts each day? Too much.  Be genuine, be yourself.

I hope this is somewhat helpful.  I'm certainly no expert but I've got a decent following (over 1,600 likes) and quite a few very engaged and interactive fans.  Have fun with it!
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: EduPerez on August 05, 2012, 04:51:20 pm
Might be relevant to the discussion:

Start-up says 80% of its Facebook ad clicks came from bots (http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook-ads-80-percent-bots-20120730,0,1602559.story)
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: bretedge on August 06, 2012, 02:23:18 pm
Might be relevant to the discussion:

Start-up says 80% of its Facebook ad clicks came from bots (http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook-ads-80-percent-bots-20120730,0,1602559.story)

Yeah, Facebook ads are a WHOLE different story.  I used ads for a short time and quickly realized they are not worth the investment.  I don't recommend them at all. 
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Graham Mitchell on August 09, 2012, 05:24:02 am
Hi All,

Many pro photogs are working the Facebook angle in the hopes of generating business but does it work? Can anyone reading this post verify that it makes a difference to their bottom line? It would be nice to get some input before venturing down that road. I don't want to get sucked into a black hole of work if it's not going to pay off.

Thanks for any help.

Bill Stevenson
www.beautifuloutdoorphotos.com

I think you have to be more specific than just "photographers". I wish that term didn't even exist because people all too often lump all kinds of photographers together even if the type of photography is very different.

To answer your question, I can imagine that a wedding photographer could benefit from FB, because people will 'like' their friends' wedding photos and spread the exposure that way. On the other hand, I don't imagine FB would be much use to a product photographer!
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: DHB on November 14, 2012, 12:30:00 pm
I hope it's OK to revive an old thread.

So how about Linkedin, or Twitter? Same thing? I have been trying to get a social media presence going on FB and LI, and LI seems to be much more legit for a commercial photographer, or business in general, for that matter. Twitter I haven't done yet.

I have had my doubts that social media would be of value to a commercial photographer, but I know some that swear by it.

David
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: MartinSpence on November 15, 2012, 10:51:59 am
In additon to David's metion of Twitter & LI - what about Google+?
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Kirk Gittings on November 15, 2012, 11:11:47 am
Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn are useful for keeping your name out there-letting clients know what you are doing/accomplishing. Don't overestimate its value but put some time into it. Don't expect miracles-it is one small piece of a marketing strategy. Google+ is virtually all photographers and various creative professionals but overwhelmingly wanna bes. So if that is your client base go for it. To me it it is a waste of time. The only people I find there worth getting in front of are already on Facebook in much larger numbers.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: MartinSpence on November 15, 2012, 11:52:29 am
Does G+ have any benefits for SEO? I.e. backinks ?
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: louoates on November 15, 2012, 02:28:42 pm
Believe it or not, folks, but I've had more sales through Craigs List than from my web site and social media combined. You won't get full retail but it's a great outlet for your "seconds" paper or canvas prints that are 90% perfect. Local subjects work best in my experience. It also opens up the possibility of doing custom sizes for those who respond -- at full price I might add.

You can also sell un-stretched canvas and unframed and un-matted paper prints there.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: pwbrian on December 28, 2012, 05:42:44 pm
There's a lot of companies using FB to market these days.  There's also a few apps out there designed to get more out of your presence there.  The idea is based around posting content and having it shared.  I think the marketing term is impression.  The average user has 250 friends (well internet friends  ;) )  So if you have 250 friends and you post an image, they'll see it in their news feed.  If they like it, their 250 friends see it as well.  If they share it, same thing.  So one post could have ridiculous amount of impressions (in theroy).  The hope is that via a post, likes and sharing you end up with a message "Hey, saw your pic on FB and would like to to shoot ___ for me."  Lots of marketing as starting to show up regarding this idea.  It can work well for branding but I'm not sure about lead generation. 
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: SecondFocus on December 31, 2012, 12:04:07 am
Where people fail to get the point with social media is when they compare it to advertising. It is not advertising, that is why it is called social media.

The best form of creating business has always been socially interacting person to person within your physical environment. Going to parties and meeting people, playing golf, groups like Rotary and such. If you are a fashion shooter, you have to be in a fashion capital and drink, eat and make merry with fashion people.

The next step past that is social media. Create, build and interact within that social group is not unlike your physical face to face social groups. You make friends and learn about them, they learn about you. You build those relationships. That is the way it works.

Treat social media like advertising and you are probably wasting you time. Putting up banners, looking for click thru's or impressions is not going to be any different than putting a business card size ad in the "yellow pages".

I am not trying to sell anyone on this, I am not going to run seminars, sell books or anything else. I am only telling you my experience. And it has worked for me.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: Sareesh Sudhakaran on December 31, 2012, 09:48:33 am
Does G+ have any benefits for SEO? I.e. backinks ?

Google+ has authorship, if you're running a blog or guest posting. You can also create hangouts of a group of people - even conduct a training session or webinar if you want.

Backlinks? In my experience I would say Facebook is numero uno for social networking. Twitter is good, but not that serious. Linkedin is great for more professional services. Pinterest is something every photographer should be looking at pronto.

G+ I would put last. There are active users, but with the others it's easier, if you know what I mean. My blog is a couple of months old, but it has presence in all of these social media (except Linkedin). You can check it out to see for yourself.

The big problem with Google is that they are always changing. Has anyone noticed how the new google search works as of today?
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: dhancock on February 22, 2013, 09:41:28 pm
I think it helps, which is why I personally use it. It can increase the number and loyalty of your customers, as it is a easy way for them to keep up with your business. Just don't make it seem like a cheesy sales gimik.
Title: Re: Does Facebook work for photographers?
Post by: PeterAit on February 23, 2013, 10:08:18 am
There has never been a better example of quantity not translating into quality.

Amen!