Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: marcmccalmont on March 30, 2012, 09:29:00 pm
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Has any one been using the Arca D4 geared head? Any thoughts positive or negative?
Where are these available in the US? Sturdy enough for MFD, DSLR w/long lens?
Marc
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Capture integration has had them in stock. I have played with one - it is typical Arca-Swiss (AKA high) quality.
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Capture integration has had them in stock. I have played with one - it is typical Arca-Swiss (AKA high) quality.
Ellis
I have always used ball heads because of the quick framing. Now I'm thinking I'd like more accuracy is the D4 the best of both? quick framing then accurate adjustments? will it handle the weight of MFDB and longer lenses?
Thanks
Marc
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Hi,
I think so. It is rated at 30kg.
I have personally used it with up to 400/4.5 + 2X extender, that combo is not very heavy. I also used RRS BH40 and BH55 and Acratech Ultimate Ballhead. All were very good.
I bought my Arca D4 from Robert White in UK. I'm not really comfortable with the Arca Swiss quick release but learned to live with it. In my view the RRS lever type QRs are preferable. So I don't like the QR but like the rest very much!
Here is a small video describing it: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/53-arca-swiss-d4
Best regards
Erik
Ellis
I have always used ball heads because of the quick framing. Now I'm thinking I'd like more accuracy is the D4 the best of both? quick framing then accurate adjustments? will it handle the weight of MFDB and longer lenses?
Thanks
Marc
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Ellis
I have always used ball heads because of the quick framing. Now I'm thinking I'd like more accuracy is the D4 the best of both? quick framing then accurate adjustments? will it handle the weight of MFDB and longer lenses?
Thanks
Marc
Don't have enough direct experience to say one way or the other. Accurate: yes.
I have grown to dislike the Arca-Swiss lever clamp as I had the nut come off the width adjustment screw at an inconvenient time, the screw clamp is more reliable. I like the RRS clamps more, mostly their screw drive designs as well. Of course the solution to the root problem I have is just to have plates from the same manufacturer so you won't need to adjust the width ever. I should inventory and rationalize my plate collection!
(edited to remove typos and improve clarity of thought.)
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I should inventoey and rationalize my plate colkection!
Yes I too prefer the RRS screw clamp over their lever clamp, I standardized years ago on RRS clamps and L brackets, expensive but in the end worth it.
Marc
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Just received a D4M, and for anyone considering the D4 or the D4M, you won't be disappointed. I've been using a BH-40 for years. As with other ball-head configurations, it is difficult to fine tune. I'm a stickler for precise composition using Live View for focus. Something as simple as leveling the camera takes multiple efforts and precious battery juice! When the D4M came out, it got my attention. I finally bit the bullet (it is a tad heavy for my backpacking demands and it is not inexpensive!). It is the finest piece of machined hardware I have ever operated. Camera adjustments are now precise and rapid, not to mention the absence of frustrating "camera flop". Arca-Swiss hit a homerun with the D4/D4M.
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I'm thinking about using this head with my Linhof Techno because my beloved Manfrotto 410 is not really up to it (gearing not 100% tight, feeling a bit wobbly with that heavy camera).
I don't like ball heads so it is either D4 or the Cube. I'd prefer the D4 though due to the sligthly larger movements, possibility to unlock, a little bit (not much) lighter and lower price. It is also more all-around and would be used with my Canon system too.
The Techno with a sliding back is a 4 kg camera. My question is if you think the D4 is adequate for this, or if it will feel a bit wobbly for example due to center of mass shifting when tilting the camera etc.
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The D4M is a piece of art in terms of mechanical precision. I would have to assume the D4 will easily stand up under a 4kg load. Although it is not geared, the D4M is rock solid in movements under a 3kg load.
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I switched from the 410 to D4 about a year ago. There is a world of difference, as there should be considering the prices.
There's a post in Medium Format forum where the guy did some fairly scientific testing with a 6x9 Arca at around 3kg. You've probably seen that one. The outcome would suggest the D4 will make you happy.
If you're talking about the difference in how the C1 moves compared to D4, that really only applies to smaller movements, and it seems to me the advantage would be minimal. As soon as you need a movement that's beyond what the cradles of the C1 will allow it seems to me the two heads are much more equal regarding center of gravity.
Comparing the movement of the D4 to 410 you will see that the load has far less leverage on the pivot points since the distances between pivots and clamps is a lot less.
Here's a snapshot of d4 beside 410. The d4 is much more compact and with the pivots closer together and all inline you're not hanging the load out from the center nearly as much as you are with the 410. I didn't take a shot of them from the front, but that shows it even more. If you have a 410 you'll know what I'm talking about.
I would think the D4 will be a wonderful head for you.
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Hi, I have small question concerning the D4 I hope it is ok to ask here.
what kind of thread (or stud?) does the top panning base of the D4 have if you remove the clamp (1/4", 3/8" or something else?) is it easily possible to change the clamp?
thanks
simon
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I switched from the 410 to D4 about a year ago. There is a world of difference, as there should be considering the prices.
There's a post in Medium Format forum where the guy did some fairly scientific testing with a 6x9 Arca at around 3kg. You've probably seen that one. The outcome would suggest the D4 will make you happy.
If you're talking about the difference in how the C1 moves compared to D4, that really only applies to smaller movements, and it seems to me the advantage would be minimal. As soon as you need a movement that's beyond what the cradles of the C1 will allow it seems to me the two heads are much more equal regarding center of gravity.
Comparing the movement of the D4 to 410 you will see that the load has far less leverage on the pivot points since the distances between pivots and clamps is a lot less.
Here's a snapshot of d4 beside 410. The d4 is much more compact and with the pivots closer together and all inline you're not hanging the load out from the center nearly as much as you are with the 410. I didn't take a shot of them from the front, but that shows it even more. If you have a 410 you'll know what I'm talking about.
I would think the D4 will be a wonderful head for you.
I have no doubt you are right RE this comparison. Having said that though I have to say that the 410 has been my head of choice for many years for everything from 4x5 with long lenses to DSLR. This is under heavy professional use. They simply work and work well and are very reasonably priced. I even ran over one once while on a shoot! Seriously. It jammed severely. A couple of wacks with a fist size rock freed it up and I am still using it today. You can't say that about many heads.
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I even ran over one once while on a shoot! Seriously. It jammed severely. A couple of wacks with a fist size rock freed it up and I am still using it today. You can't say that about many heads.
Or many high end pro photographers (which you certainly are) who would admit to doing something like that, even though we all do. Kudos to you for your honesty.
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How do you find it compares with the C1 Cube head? The cube head is certainly a lot lighter.
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Hi,
It is easy to remove it. You need a 3.5mm allen key. The head comes of without excessive force.
I cant say the thread, i just kept the original bolt.
Best regards
Erik
Hi, I have small question concerning the D4 I hope it is ok to ask here.
what kind of thread (or stud?) does the top panning base of the D4 have if you remove the clamp (1/4", 3/8" or something else?) is it easily possible to change the clamp?
thanks
simon
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I have no doubt you are right RE this comparison. Having said that though I have to say that the 410 has been my head of choice for many years for everything from 4x5 with long lenses to DSLR. This is under heavy professional use. They simply work and work well and are very reasonably priced. I even ran over one once while on a shoot! Seriously. It jammed severely. A couple of wacks with a fist size rock freed it up and I am still using it today. You can't say that about many heads.
I like my 410 head too and would recommend it to others, however with the Techno and sliding back there's a lot of weight to the sides which makes the left-right-tilt feel a bit wobbly. My 410 head has also lost tightness in gearing, so if you touch the camera to cock the shutter it can tilt half a degree or so. I don't really notice that much with my lighter Canon gear, but with the Techno on it it is starting to be a bit irritating.
It seems like the D4 is the way to go for me, if they ever come into stock again. I have noted that many change the quick lock to an RRS, and indeed on the pictures the RRS quick lock adapter look nicer.
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Hi,
I like my D4. Bought mine at Robert White UK. I have echanged the Fliplock to an RRS LR release. The jury is still out on that. The RRS is larger and may or may not interfere with the pan locking knob. I like the heft of the RRS.
Just checked your article on noise measurement. Nice to meet a countryman on the net.
Best regards
Erik
I like my 410 head too and would recommend it to others, however with the Techno and sliding back there's a lot of weight to the sides which makes the left-right-tilt feel a bit wobbly. My 410 head has also lost tightness in gearing, so if you touch the camera to cock the shutter it can tilt half a degree or so. I don't really notice that much with my lighter Canon gear, but with the Techno on it it is starting to be a bit irritating.
It seems like the D4 is the way to go for me, if they ever come into stock again. I have noted that many change the quick lock to an RRS, and indeed on the pictures the RRS quick lock adapter look nicer.
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I like my 410 head too and would recommend it to others, however with the Techno and sliding back there's a lot of weight to the sides which makes the left-right-tilt feel a bit wobbly. My 410 head has also lost tightness in gearing, so if you touch the camera to cock the shutter it can tilt half a degree or so.
Have you tried tightening it up?. If not, peel back the sticker over the offending joint about half way and tighten the bolt with a hex wrench. Peel gently and you can glue it back in place very nicely. Or just take it off completely. This sticker has the degrees printed on it. If you've already done this and you're mechanically inclined you can undo it all the way, take the joint apart and rotate the aluminum hub about 180° to expose a fresh new set of teeth. This revived mine when it got sloppy. The drive screw is brass so most of the wear happens to the aluminum.
BTW, I certainly meant no disrespect to the 410. For one thing you can get 4 or 5 of them for the price of a D4. I bought a well used one and it worked great for me for many years. It did get to the point where the spring in the locking knob got tired and wouldn't lock fully without some help. That was getting on my nerves right about the time they announced D$. I got it mainly because I really wanted something smaller and lighter with gears that would take a RRS L bracket more... shall I say... elegantly than my hacksawed 410 Frankenhead. As you can see, I know the 410 quite intimately...
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Have you tried tightening it up?
No I haven't, thanks for the tip, I'll look into it. And yes the smaller size and a bit lower weight (although not much lower) is also important to me so I probably upgrade eventually anyway. But if I manage to tighten up the 410 I won't be in the same hurry...
That the D4 can be used in unlocked mode for panning with a tele lens without the tiltiness of a ball head is also an attractive added bonus for me.
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Thank you for the 410 nickname - Frankenhead - I like it. Particularly because I ditched the Manfrotto QR and put an aftermarket AS QR clamp (Hejnar) in its stead. Nothing makes a rank amateur feel like a Real Photographer more than dragging around 9 pounds of head and big aluminum tripod. ;)
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I called mine the Frankenhead because I wanted to mount RRS before the Hejnar adapter came along. I literally got out the hacksaw and file and went to town on it. The adapter is a much friendlier solution, though the saw lightens it quite a bit...
In my experience the weight diff between 410 and D4 is quite noticeable, especially on a light carbon tripod. 410 felt fine on aluminum Manfro, but the whole rig felt top heavy with my present tripod. D4 specs roughly 1/3 lighter.
To Erik: I'm not having any interference problems between RRS and D4, but I chose one of the smallest clamps: the B2 40 LR. It's about the same size as the top plate of the head.
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How do you find it compares with the C1 Cube head? The cube head is certainly a lot lighter.
Actually, the C-1 Cube weighs 925 grams and the D4 weighs 800 grams. Here is a link to the C-1 Cube product manual:
http://rodklukas.com/resources/Arca-Swiss_C1-Cube.pdf
On June 8-11, I will be demonstrating the Arca-Swiss RM3di and RL3d cameras in the San Francisco area. I will also be demonstrating C-1 Cube and D4 heads.
If you are interested in seeing the tripod heads and cameras, or shooting a few images, then contact me in advance for details. Hope to see you there.
Rod Klukas
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Actually, the C-1 Cube weighs 925 grams and the D4 weighs 800 grams. Here is a link to the C-1 Cube product manual:
http://rodklukas.com/resources/Arca-Swiss_C1-Cube.pdf
On June 8-11, I will be demonstrating the Arca-Swiss RM3di and RL3d cameras in the San Francisco area. I will also be demonstrating C-1 Cube and D4 heads.
If you are interested in seeing the tripod heads and cameras, or shooting a few images, then contact me in advance for details. Hope to see you there.
Rod Klukas
I'm on the other side of the planet!
Must have been looking at something other than the D4, that looks similar but weighs 1.7kg...
In any case, which one do you find works better for landscapes, and why?
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+1 for the 410. Great head for the money.
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I'm on the other side of the planet!
Must have been looking at something other than the D4, that looks similar but weighs 1.7kg...
In any case, which one do you find works better for landscapes, and why?
a link to Dood camera with specs on the D4: http://doddcamera.com/spec_sheet.html?catalog%5Bname%5D=Arca-Swiss-D4-Tripod-Head-Tripod-heads&catalog%5Bproduct_guids%5D%5B0%5D=755029
"+1 for the 410. Great head for the money."
It is a decent head married to a lousy QR system.
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"+1 for the 410. Great head for the money."
It is a decent head married to a lousy QR system.
The Manfrotto QR system can be replaced (http://hejnarphoto.blogspot.com/2011/04/manfrotto-405410-adapter-for-arca-swiss.html) with an Arca style clamp very easily. I got mine via Ebay as soon as I found out about it, and it works fine on my 405 (the bigger brother of the 410).
Cheers,
Bart
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Yes Bart it certainly can be, I did something similar - adding an Arca-Swiss type clamp to a 405's QR plate (but not removing the Mantrottos QR lock and release release mechanism) - back in the late 1990s. The Hejnar adapter, which looks well made, adds $115 to the cost of the 405.
The point remains that the Manfrotto QR is a lousy design.
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What's up with the D4 head? Why is it never in stock? Is there some manufacturing problem, or is it just so immensely popular that everything is sold right away?
"delivery time currently not available" since several months on arca-shop.de
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What's up with the D4 head? Why is it never in stock? Is there some manufacturing problem, or is it just so immensely popular that everything is sold right away?
"delivery time currently not available" since several months on arca-shop.de
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What's up with the D4 head? Why is it never in stock? Is there some manufacturing problem, or is it just so immensely popular that everything is sold right away?
Apparently the latter - overwhelming demand and the size (small) of Arca-swiss' manufacturing facilities.
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Apparently the latter - overwhelming demand and the size (small) of Arca-swiss' manufacturing facilities.
Oh... perhaps one should put oneself in some sort of queue then.
I'm not surprised that there is large demand, there are not many heads like it. There's this one, and there's the manfrotto head (great price/performance but some quality issues and does not work well with large base plates a la gitzo), and then there's various cubes (slower to work with, more expensive) and very large and heavy geared heads for studio work.
D4 seems to be the best one can get...
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Oh... perhaps one should put oneself in some sort of queue then.
I'm not surprised that there is large demand, there are not many heads like it. There's this one, and there's the manfrotto head (great price/performance but some quality issues and does not work well with large base plates a la gitzo), and then there's various cubes (slower to work with, more expensive) and very large and heavy geared heads for studio work.
D4 seems to be the best one can get...
The Arca-Swiss D4 and D4m also have something else going for them that no other tripod head (except maybe the original Arca-Swiss B1 Monoball) has: It is a truly beautiful object as well as a deeply functional tool. I have a D4m as I couldn't find the geared version. I love it for both single frame and stitched panoramic work.
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The Arca-Swiss D4 and D4m also have something else going for them that no other tripod head (except maybe the original Arca-Swiss B1 Monoball) has: It is a truly beautiful object as well as a deeply functional tool. I have a D4m as I couldn't find the geared version. I love it for both single frame and stitched panoramic work.
I have the D4m as well (did not desire the D4), and I can second Ellis on his assessment. It is a fantastic tripod head, I can't imagine ever getting another. Previously, I used a BH-40, it does not come close to functionality nor esthetics when compared to the D4m.
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The D4 is now my standard lightweight /medium weight head. It also often gets used in place on the much more massive Foba ASMIA head plus Really Right Stuff PCL-1 Panning clamp combination as the weak spots with that set up is the PCL-1 along with the sheer size and weight of the ASMIA.
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Torger,
D4/D4M can handle 30KG. so No problem.
Rod
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Hi!
I have the D4 and love it! Ordered my from Robert White UK, and it was shipped same day, as far as I can recall. The one I had was the one with the Fliplock. I replaced the Fliplock with an RRS LR type quick release. It was easily done using a standard 3.5 mm Allen ket (specially ordered at the hardware store at, it did cost 8 SEK, best investment I ever made!).
I checked back at Robert White a couple of days ago, and they have a long backlog, I think.
The original fliplock is not bad, by the way. I still use it on a Fluid head I also have.
Best regards
Erik
Oh... perhaps one should put oneself in some sort of queue then.
I'm not surprised that there is large demand, there are not many heads like it. There's this one, and there's the manfrotto head (great price/performance but some quality issues and does not work well with large base plates a la gitzo), and then there's various cubes (slower to work with, more expensive) and very large and heavy geared heads for studio work.
D4 seems to be the best one can get...
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Worth adding to this thread is that Arca has started to glue the clamp so it can no longer be changed. I found this to be very disappointing when I got my D4 today. Why?! >:( So I'm stuck with the less then excellent original quick release. The head itself is great though.
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Ask Rod Klukas which type of Loctite is used. If it is Loctite Red 271, you are ..screwed..(sorry), Red is permanent and can only be removed by heating to 500 degrees. If it is Loctite Blue 242 or Loctite Green 290, you are in luck, because the Blue and Green types are intended to secure screws from vibration but still allow unscrewing with hand tools when servicing is needed. Localized heating up to 250 degrees may be required. Let cool to room temperature. Remove unwanted cured Loctite Blue and Green from bolt and nut with methylene chloride.
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It dismounts easily with a 3.5 mm hex key. I got my for 8 SEK at Woodys Nyköping ( but hey needed ordering it ).
Best regards
Erik
Worth adding to this thread is that Arca has started to glue the clamp so it can no longer be changed. I found this to be very disappointing when I got my D4 today. Why?! >:( So I'm stuck with the less then excellent original quick release. The head itself is great though.
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It dismounts easily with a 3.5 mm hex key.
I got the tool, but applied so much force that the shaft was bent. Then I scanned the web and found out that recently, like sometime during 2012/2013, Arca-Swiss started to use glue. I ordered my D4 early this month and it was backordered (as usual) and was lucky to get one just a week later or so I guess it was manufactured and assembled this summer, and the new order is to put some sort of glue. I've also heard that they started with some nice easy-to-remove glue, but later changed it to some tougher component.
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I noted that the pano's are designed in a compact way which is great but has the drawback that there is no real place to put any scales. The bottom pano has no scale, and the top pano has a scale but it's not complete on its own, you need an arrow on the quick-release clamp to point out the position. In my original classic screw clamp there is a small metal pin that works as this arrow. If I would change the clamp I would lose this, so one reason to keep it is to keep the top pano scale.
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Bad news. I emailed Precision Camera Works and the new heads with AS clamps are made so the clamps cannot be removed. They add something besides just doing a simple reversible Loctite job on the screw - it seems likely that they have some sort of peg/slot system as for the RRS clamps. That's good if you like the clamp and don't plan to change it, not so good otherwise. But I would consult Precision Camera Works (sells and repairs AS gear), Rod Klukas the distributor, or Arca-Swiss.de to see if the clamp can be changed by factory authorized service. For the D4 or Cube, I'd say it would be worth a high repair bill. For the more common models Z1 and P0, swapping, buying used, or buying new may be cheaper if you can sell the old head.
I actually like the flip-lock lever, it has grown on me, and it is reassuringly solid and safe, but I have noticed that the Sunwayfoto 100 mm nodal rail and the Kirk L brackets can't be accommodated at the same setting. I just won't touch the setting when in the field, due to having had the clamp fall apart the first time I attempted to change the factory width setting. Chasing tiny washers is fine on a clean floor, but I have no desire to sort through 4 inches of leaf litter.
If anyone knows of a different 100 mm nodal rail with perpendicular clamp at the end, I would like to hear about it, because the DP2 Merrill needs a short nodal rail so the other end of the slide doesn't show in the photo. I suppose the other thing I could do is buy one of those small back-to-back clamps and place it on the regular 150mm nodal rail.
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I've read a lot about the D4 and issues with the clamp, and have one lingering question. Will it work with RRS plates? I have and love an old Arca B1 but have always fantasized about having a geared head, a cube would be lovely but the D4 is less expensive. Thanks.
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The classic screw clamp works with every third party plate. The only real drawback with it is the 3-4 second tighten/loosen time, otherwise you have a clamp with higher pressure, more robust, and takes plates with slightly varying widths. It's also easier to operate with gloves on.
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Thanks for good info.
Best regards
Erik
Bad news. I emailed Precision Camera Works and the new heads with AS clamps are made so the clamps cannot be removed. They add something besides just doing a simple reversible Loctite job on the screw - it seems likely that they have some sort of peg/slot system as for the RRS clamps. That's good if you like the clamp and don't plan to change it, not so good otherwise. But I would consult Precision Camera Works (sells and repairs AS gear), Rod Klukas the distributor, or Arca-Swiss.de to see if the clamp can be changed by factory authorized service. For the D4 or Cube, I'd say it would be worth a high repair bill. For the more common models Z1 and P0, swapping, buying used, or buying new may be cheaper if you can sell the old head.
I actually like the flip-lock lever, it has grown on me, and it is reassuringly solid and safe, but I have noticed that the Sunwayfoto 100 mm nodal rail and the Kirk L brackets can't be accommodated at the same setting. I just won't touch the setting when in the field, due to having had the clamp fall apart the first time I attempted to change the factory width setting. Chasing tiny washers is fine on a clean floor, but I have no desire to sort through 4 inches of leaf litter.
If anyone knows of a different 100 mm nodal rail with perpendicular clamp at the end, I would like to hear about it, because the DP2 Merrill needs a short nodal rail so the other end of the slide doesn't show in the photo. I suppose the other thing I could do is buy one of those small back-to-back clamps and place it on the regular 150mm nodal rail.